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post #121 of 215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakashizuma View Post

so let me get this. You're saying apple is doing well in the market. Is anyone in this topic saying otherwise?

no. But it's an important point, germaine to the discussion.

nobody is saying they are doing bad financially. Microsoft is not bad financially either.

um . . . One is doing incredibly, unbelievably well (even analysts hardly understand it. The other has been in a steady downward slide for years.

they have both probven to be successful companies in their markets.

they have, yes.

hell even google is recession proof considering their market value and how much control they have over web and search.

google isn't in the hardware business, nor are they in the os business (excepting android.)

these three are the big guys of the today's tech

can't argue with that.

we are talking about marketshare and os. Microsoft owns the pc market and there is no other way around no matter how many ads gets produced.

so? What exactly does ms' marketshare mean in relation to apple? How is that signficant? Apple has completely bypassed ms' marketshare pressure and is in a completely different league, dictating the trends. Ms chose to license their os to everyone and their dog. Apple did not. Apple rules its segment of the market. Ms and the generic box-makers are sccrambling for the bottom end. Ms' marketing campaign against apple failed miserably.

Yes, ms has the biggest share. Like any second-rate budget brand. When you lose the premium end, you've lost the kind of consumer that helps build the desirability of your brand name. Just ask the laptop hunter talent; they all wanted macs, but not every one could afford them, for whatever reason. The message was pretty clear. Apple doesn't do low end, and you have to pay to play. Very typical for a premium manufactuer.


microsoft has a tendency stick to their fights and finally prevail.

i'm not sure what this means. "prevail" in terms of what? And ms is notorious for sticking to wrong-headed ideas and underperfoming products. Ms is wasteful, and their finances show this in abundance. Hence, their lousy financial performance for the last few years, especially for the last 2-3 quarters. How long are consumers supposed to wait for ms to "prevail", while the smaller, leaner, meaner competition keeps releasing game-changing products, year after year? It's easy to label "failure" (i.e., winmo) as some sort of hidden, "long-term" strategy to success. Yes, ms meant to do that!! Right. I'm sure that's what ballmer's thinking during those embarrasing press conferences in rooms full of macs as he fumbles his way through yet another apple-obsessed speech. Ballmer knows people with $$ aren't buying his products he's peddling, which means? I think we all know what that means.

they took on sony (who made the most successful console of all time) and in this generation they are ahead of sony.

yes, they make a great console. Can't deny that. Unfortunately, their long-term xbox strategy doesn't seem to translate well anywhere else in the microsoft organization. They made the most successful "smartphone", nd in this generation over decade of work has been wiped out in two years by a competitor new to the game. And the bleeding continues.

and let me tell you this. Apple is doing great now but it doesnt mean it will continue forever.

obviously. Same can be said for every other company out there. Enter gm.

they fell once and they can possibly fall again.

ok. It's certanly *possible*, like anything else.

sony used to be the commander of the tech industry and today they are a shadow of what used to be the top premium company in the market. Michael dell had his famous "i'd sell the company and give the money back to the shareholders" moment and look where his company is today compared to apple.

i agree.

it's easy to climb up but it is way more difficult to maintain that position.

true. That's true for any company.

many companies have failed when they reached the absolute top.

in a manner of speaking, yes.

microsoft got lucky and learned their lesson few years ago with vista and now they know they should take nothing for granted and hence they are doing much better (and yes, they should thank apple for that)

once again, i agree. The lesson-learned remains to be seen (give win 7 a few months to perform out in the wild), but so far it's looking good.

post #122 of 215
.. ... .


Quote:
Originally Posted by wakashizuma View Post

apple invented the personal computer market. It was their game.

sure.

apple's approach to the pc market has always been hardware locked to software (except the brief period of mac clones).

yes, exactly.

they have advertised this approach as the best one for personal computers (i assume you watch the mac vs. Pc ads).

they sure have.

yet consumers have consistently said no to this approach and they have chosen microsoft's way of doing things.

they actually haven't. Ignorance, inertia, universal licensing and cheap go a long way. In fact, it's characteristic of a typical budget-brand.

Consumers keep handing apple record quarter after record quarter. In recession. Apple is selling *more* macs. With cheaper, allegedly "higher value" options available. Yet people are lining up in order to contribute to record mac sales. The only one in the industry. Did i mention this happened in a recession?


nobody forced apple from beginning to not do what microsoft did. '

if i'm reading that correctly, the answer woud be yes. Apple's strategy is and was, deliberate and self-imposed.

they could have yet they chose not to because they knew better.

i assume that's laudatory of apple's strategy, so i'll go with yes. Apple knew better.

turned out they didn't;

except they did. Witness 2006-present.

microsoft won

won what? The bottom-end dregs? King of the bargain bin? Sure. Awesome to be associated with what people "settle for" when they aren't able to get the what thet really want. Unless ms was lying in its laptop hunter ads. Ms' profit keep dropping. Apple's keep rising. I'm not sure what ms is "winning" here.

and apple lost in a market that they created themselves

in exchange for ruling the premium segment of the market, commanding a ridiculous amount of mindshare, with i believe more cash on hand than ms now (what, 33 billion?), and charging basically whatever they please because they know everyone's falling all over each other to buy into the mac ecosystem.

Recession-proof.

Yup. Huge loss.

post #123 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Typical Apple hipster fanboy who dislikes when people critize Apple. If you criticize Apple, then you must shut up because mighty Apple is above everything. Instead of wearing of those tight shirts on your fat belly try to be a realist; not everyone bends over to Apple!

Man, we're really getting a lot of these angry types who didn't get enough love from their parents, lately.
post #124 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Macs use the exact same compotents as the PCs out there hence why they can proclaim that they can run Windows too! They use the exact same processor, chipset, memory, graphics chip and so on! There isn't anything Ferrari like in a mac as much as you guys love the cars argument! If macs used a different hardware, then maybe you could make the argument (although we know how the whole PowerPC is better than Intel turned out!)

Red Bull used the same engine as Renault in F1 this past season, manufactured by Renault, in fact, yet the Red Bull was one of the best cars on the grid and Renault one of the worst. The Mac is clearly the Red Bull car here.
post #125 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

The whole who stole my idea is getting old and nobody cares about it anymore.

I suppose it does get tiresome to always have to hear that your platform is like the shadows on the cave walls. Well, sorry, but it's not our fault.
post #126 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Many companies have failed when they reached the absolute top. Microsoft got lucky and learned their lesson few years ago with vista and now they know they should take nothing for granted and hence they are doing much better (and yes, they should thank Apple for that)

Actually, Microsoft didn't learn anything. Their fall is coming soon. Google has their number and it won't be that long now. And they don't even know what to do about it.
post #127 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Apple invented the personal computer market. It was their game. Apple's approach to the PC market has always been hardware locked to software (except the brief period of mac clones). They have advertised this approach as the best one for personal computers (I assume you watch the Mac vs. PC ads). Yet consumers have consistently said no to this approach and they have chosen Microsoft's way of doing things. Nobody forced Apple from beginning to not do what Microsoft did. They could have yet they chose not to because they knew better. Turned out they didn't; Microsoft won and Apple lost in a market that they created themselves

Revisionist history. Microsoft didn't take over the PC market, IBM did, Microsoft just got lucky and came along for the ride.
post #128 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

It's funny how it took Windows 7 less than a month to take over Snow Leopard

It's funny, but, when you say it like that, it makes Windows 7 seem like some sort of virus. Maybe Boot Camp isn't such a good idea.
post #129 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Also Microsoft isnt in the hardware business so they could care less if their OS goes on a 300.00 netbook or a 5k gaming system. They have no reason to care about the hardware end.

Well, yes, that's been obvious for some time now.
post #130 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.

OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.

Mac OS X is vulnerable. At this years Pwn 2 Own contest the Mac was hacked in 2 minutes!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/p...-minutes-flat/

While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!

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post #131 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.

OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.

What exactly happened to make you such a bitter person?
post #132 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.

OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.

Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.

In 2009 Pwn 2 Own it only took a few SECONDS to hack the Mac!!!!

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917

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post #133 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Mac OS X is vulnerable. At this years Pwn 2 Own contest the Mac was hacked in 2 minutes!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/p...-minutes-flat/

While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.

In 2009 Pwn 2 Own it only took a few SECONDS to hack the Mac!!!!

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917

You’re not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.

He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and it’s not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition. That means Safari on Windows, Firefox on Windows, OS X or Linux, or IE8 on Windows all have a vulnerability that allow access to the user account if you click on a specific link.

Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they don’t actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.
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post #134 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Youre not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.

He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and its not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition.

Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they dont actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.

No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....

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post #135 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.

Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.

What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
post #136 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....

Mea culpa! Same hack known for a year and no one tried to use it. On that point Apple really has let their consumer base down. My other points still stand. It was a browser hack, not an OS X hack and all browsers were hacked.
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post #137 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.

What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.

Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.
I was just replying to the general statement that someone made about Windows being vulnerable to viruses and being less secure than the Mac.
Here is another excerpt from the Charlie Miller interview after Pwn 2 Own 2009 and the link to the full interview at the end of the quote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
Why Safari? Why didnt you go after IE or Safari?

Its really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs dont do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You dont have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations youd find in Windows.

Its more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesnt have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
Link to the full interview:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941

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post #138 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its not being bitter when your pointing out the truth.

The two are not mutually exclusive, they aren't even related. But, it's an interesting sort of rationalization about yourself that you display. Still, while there are some posters, totally lacking in self-awareness, who may not even be aware of their bitterness, I think you are, but just unable to control it.

And, as I mentioned above, your point while perhaps academically interesting, doesn't reflect the situation in real world usage, which is what really matters, after all.
post #139 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it.

i know what he is getting it. Some of that did change with SL, especially 64-bit SL. Next year we’ll see Chrome in the mix and new OSes all around.

Now, how are viruses likely getting into user’s computers? I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t run as admin on my Mac. I run as a regular user for added protection. I even pay bills with my iPhone since the carrier’s network is more secure than the hotel network’s I use.

PS: I’ve read your posts, you don’t hostile to me. The large font was a little obnoxious, but not hostile.
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post #140 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

i know what he is getting it. Some of that did change with SL, especially 64-bit SL. Next year well see Chrome in the mix and new OSes all around.


PS: Ive read your posts, you dont hostile to me. The large font was a little obnoxious, but not hostile.

Point taken with the large fonts...it was overkill! :-)
You bring up some interesting points about next years Pwn 2 Own. It will be interesting to see
Snow Leopard with:
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Windows 7
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Ubuntu Linux
Firefox

I can't wait!

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post #141 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.

Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.
post #142 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.

Yeah...the extra large fonts was overkill and not needed...i guess i was shouting and didn't realize I was! :-)

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post #143 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Point taken with the large fonts...it was overkill! :-)
You bring up some interesting points about next years Pwn 2 Own. It will be interesting to see
Snow Leopard with:
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Windows 7
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Ubuntu Linux
Firefox

I can't wait!

I wonder if theyll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carriers network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.
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post #144 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Isn't wasn't heavily hyped at all compared to Vista whereas everyone was anticipating it for years when it was originally called Longhorn.
After release though it has been properly advertised, unlike Vista- and unlike Snow Leopard for that matter.

Longhorn is a proper name for the average Windows user because (to paraphrase a line from Bugs Bunny) they are gull-a-bull. You may groan now.
post #145 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

A Toyotta has lower acquisition costs, lower maintenance costs, lower carbon dioxide emissions and is more practical than a Ferrari to get actually things done in life instead of trying to impress people around you. And I've yet to see a Ferrari which can take as much abuse as a Toyotta family van can take over the years.

Ferrari and Apple may not be that different in some aspects: They sell a life-style where in the end it actually doesn't really matter if the good warrants the prize from a pure quality point of view.

The problem with this comparison is it has been shown repeatably by studies by the Gartner Group that Mac cost less over the long haul. So it is more Mac being high quality with the PC going between Toyota on the high end to AMC's Gremlin on the low.

Actually that is an insult...the Gremlin had better quality.
post #146 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wonder if they’ll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carrier’s network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.

That would be very interesting to see.
Which smart phones would be used for comparison?
I know the iPhone for sure but I wonder what other phones......
The difference here in the US is that we don't have the exact phone on different service providers.
Every service provider has different phones......
But it would interesting to see which phones get owned first.
Would it be through the cell network, wireless access or BT or even tethered......
Would jail broken iPhones be included?

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post #147 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Great post! You hit the nail right on the head!
Some people just hate MS just for no reason.... just because they are MS. But they do have great products. Quadra 610 does seem to take this waaaaay to personal....

I have a reason. Microsoft screwed my life. It made (and unfortunately still makes) me too stressed. With their assistance, their sub-par products and their scams. I once thought the OS world was just Windows, and all its problems were inevitable. Then I found out the real inventor of GUIs was a company, which suffered a lot when their CEO was fired by the board but was steadily recovering itself since the said CEO returned. And that they sold computers that rarely ever presented the user with so much problems, yet was based on a solid and powerful server system. I remember they had just announced the all-in-display when I became interested. Last April, I bought an alu Macbook, and while I wish I could have bought a Pro (here in Brazil the $1300 Macbook cost me $2500), and that Apple actually had official tech support over here (the authorized assistance guys are clueless), I couldn't be happier...

...and of course if I didn't have to split my HD in half to use my Windows programs. Windows 7 is better than Vista... and XP, but that is not as great as it seems when you remember that XP is now 8 years old and it is still Windows we're talking about...

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post #148 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Malware is pretty much a non issue for Windows x64 systems. Its a myth that todays Windows systems are full of BSOD and viruses.

Macs are not hacked because its not worth the time to hack them.

This same naïve argument again and again.

Ask yourself, why are you here on a Mac forum ranting about how bad Apple is and how great Windows is?

Don't you think there's one hacker out there who would like to "put Apple in its place" the way you're attempting to on this forum?

Pay attention.

There are two reasons hackers write malware and viruses.

One reason is money. Many hackers want to infect as many machines as possible so that they can run spam farms and harvest information for profit. It makes sense that this type of hacker would target the platform with the largest market share.

But the other reasons hackers do what they do is for notoriety. Maybe they want to be "king of the hacker hill" or maybe they hope to land a job.

There's absolutely no reason this type of hacker wouldn't target OS X.

Just ask yourself this simple question:

Who would gain more notoriety?

A) The writer of the 648,014th widespread, successful exploit for windows, or;
B) The writer of the FIRST widespread, successful exploit for Mac OS X?

If you think there are no viruses for Mac because of market share, you're pretty short on logic.
post #149 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

I have a reason. Microsoft screwed my life. It made (and unfortunately still makes) me too stressed. With their assistance, their sub-par products and their scams. I once thought the OS world was just Windows, and all its problems were inevitable. Then I found out the real inventor of GUIs was a company, which suffered a lot when their CEO was fired by the board but was steadily recovering itself since the said CEO returned. And that they sold computers that rarely ever presented the user with so much problems, yet was based on a solid and powerful server system. I remember they had just announced the all-in-display when I became interested. Last April, I bought an alu Macbook, and while I wish I could have bought a Pro (here in Brazil the $1300 Macbook cost me $2500), and that Apple actually had official tech support over here (the authorized assistance guys are clueless), I couldn't be happier...

...and of course if I didn't have to split my HD in half to use my Windows programs. Windows 7 is better than Vista... and XP, but that is not as great as it seems when you remember that XP is now 8 years old and it is still Windows we're talking about...

solipsism - is that you?
post #150 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Malware is pretty much a non issue for Windows x64 systems. Its a myth that todays Windows systems are full of BSOD and viruses.

I feel like I've heard this before...

[dissolve to past...]

Extremeskater: Malware is pretty much a non issue for Windows x32 systems. Its a myth that todays Windows systems are full of BSOD and viruses.

[dissolve to further in the past...]

Extremeskater: Malware is pretty much a non issue for Windows x16 systems. Its a myth that todays Windows systems are full of BSOD and viruses.

[dissolve back to present...]

Extremeskater: This time it's gonna be different, trust me.
post #151 of 215
Malware is a non-issue for Windows . . . except that 99.9999% of malware is . . . written for Windows.

Nearly 200,000 and counting.

But it's a non-issue.
post #152 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Sorry if that upsets you but its true. You still haven't told me if Apple creates such solid software why is the iPhone so easy to jailbreak? You also haven't told me if OSX is so solid why can it be install on a PC if Apple doesn't want it to be installed on other hardware?

If you want me to answer the questions for you I can all you have to do is ask me too.

I suppose cracked copies of Windows don't exist.

And installing OS X on a generic PC and actually getting it to work involved a helluva lot more than simply running a crack.

As for jailbreaking an iPhone . . . someone actually has to write code to make that possible.

No one said it was easy.
post #153 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Sorry if that upsets you but its true. You still haven't told me if Apple creates such solid software why is the iPhone so easy to jailbreak? You also haven't told me if OSX is so solid why can it be install on a PC if Apple doesn't want it to be installed on other hardware?

If you want me to answer the questions for you I can all you have to do is ask me too.

Are you really this naive? You can "hack" any system if you have physical access and the time to do it. This is, overall, possibly the weakest argument you have ever made. You really need to get a hobby, do something positive for yourself.
post #154 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Ah you just answered part of the question for me.

Yes, most malware is written for Windows.

There are no OS X viruses in the wild. Nothing that requires any antivirus of any kind. A lot of us even have the OS X firewall turned off. Save for around two trojans (one of which doesn't really do anything) - let's be fair, and a handful of proof-of-concepts that show up every year as part of contests, and the like, that never make it out of the lab.

The fact that Mac OS X represents around 5% of the worldwide installed base of computers might explain why there are fewer Mac viruses. But it wouldn't explain why there are none. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of PC viruses, a handful of Mac OS 9 viruses, and not one for Mac OS X. There are mrore for Linux than there are for OS X. There were more for the Mac OS before OS X, when Apple had much smaller market share.

Even counting those two little Trojan horsies (two?? Might as well be zero), no malware in the wild for Macs. Nothing. There are over 50 million Mac users. It's been nine years. And nothing. The obscurity argument would hold if there were a few hundred out there in the wild. But there's nothing.

We're currently surfing the net with impunity. In complete safety because hackers just don't seem to care about the 50 million or so Mac users out there or Apple's "smug" commercials and entire ad campaign that's been going on for years?

Obscurity? I'll give that to you, even though it's hardly valid. May MS continue to market a poor, back-asswards copy of OS X that runs on every single POS box out there and presents the biggest target, while Apple remains in control of the segregated, exclusive, and oh-so-special-with-sugar-on-top Premium segment.

Either way, malware will continue to be written for Windows with no let-up. Especially now. And if Windows 7 is the Second Coming like you and the other Windows sufferers say it is, then Mac users will be surfing free and easy for a long time to come. Hey, if it works for you, it works for me, too.
post #155 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Why would you need a cracked copy of Windows?

Skater, skater, skater... To do an unauthorized install, you know, without a key, like installing Mac OS X on non-Apple hardware, which was part of the point you were trying to make. Maybe you're a bit crapulous this morning, though.
post #156 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

No I'm just pointing out how naive you and your buddy Quadra are, it takes alot more then just installing OSX without a key.

If someone is attempting to install Windows without a key that just means they simply illegally download it and it takes very little to get a keycode.

Thats a big difference from walking into an Apple Store buying a legal copy of OSX and getting it to work on a PC.

So, you're admitting that Windows is much easier to hack. I knew you'd come around eventually.

Quote:
Besides this isnt the point we were talking about. The point is you and your roomate Quadra keep on about how bad Windows is due to security when Windows is far more secure then OSX.

Classic troll content. Excellent!

Quote:
Just because something is attacked more doesn't mean its less secure, in face for the amount of times people try to attack Windows its safe to say they do a damn good job with security updates. Most people that have problems simply do not update there system on a regulare basis.

Well, we could argue the point that being attacked more does make you less secure, but, I think it's safe to say, that as a percentage of systems "hacked", relative and within the platform, Windows has an enormous lead in market share over OS X. So, overall, it's obviously less secure, whatever the reasons.

Quote:
In regards to OSX the fact that Apple has over 100 fixes everytime they put out a verison update tells its far from bug free.

Most Microsoft updates are security updates or driver updates not because functions simply do not work as is the case with OSX.

So, you're saying that Windows always needs a lot more security fixes? Sort of undermines your whole argument doesn't it?

As for the percentage of bug fixes vs. security fixes you aren't really in possession of data that would allow you to support such a claim. But, what was it that someone said earlier in this thread or another: 80% of statistics are made up on the spot.


But, really, your trolling is getting more and more frantic and senseless. Yeah, we get it that you hate Apple and its customers. We understand that you think it will make you feel better about yourself belittling them. But, this is not really a productive way to deal with your anger over your lot in life.
post #157 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Actually, if you're used to XP then you'll be scratching your head in Control Panel trying to find where they put everything. Otherwise, it does seem fairly intuitive.

The trick is to just ignore the Control Panel and other menus and use the search function to find everything. Hit the Windows key, type a few letters, hit enter.

Something Mac users should be familiar with, Vista introduced a working system search to Windows users, but I don't think very many use it.
post #158 of 215
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #159 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

That would be very interesting to see.
Which smart phones would be used for comparison?
I know the iPhone for sure but I wonder what other phones......
The difference here in the US is that we don't have the exact phone on different service providers.
Every service provider has different phones......
But it would interesting to see which phones get owned first.
Would it be through the cell network, wireless access or BT or even tethered......
Would jail broken iPhones be included?

— I would expect no jailbroken phones.
— This would include at this time the iPhone, Android, Blackberry.
— Not sure about other devices but WinMo, Symbian and Maemo would nice additions.
— Hacking would be done by WiFI or Bluetooth. Carrier hacking makes little sense.
— If all that failed then an app could be installed to see if malicious software would work. For the iPhone this setup would require a slightly different setup, but just as usable because it’s potential possible for Apple to miss something in their sandboxing.
— Next, access to the devices’ native browser to see if accessing a malicious link can gain one access.
— If 3rd-party apps can use interpreted code then so be it, if not, then no.
— If that proves to not work then a USB connection method will be utilized, but without getting the unlock command.
— Root access is the ideal goal, but getting access to other areas of the device would be acceptable if no one else gets farther.



Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Sorry if that upsets you but its true. You still haven't told me if Apple creates such solid software why is the iPhone so easy to jailbreak? You also haven't told me if OSX is so solid why can it be install on a PC if Apple doesn't want it to be installed on other hardware?

None of these things have to do with getting remote access to a machine to control or run a virus that is unseen by the OS. These are people real coders who have physical access. With OS X they have the install disc and are looking through the files. Creating an EFI emulator for BIOS is not a security gained problem. Adding code to make the installer think this machine is acceptable is not a security breach. Adding drivers to support different HW is not a security breach.

If you want to go that route, not that OS X has no passkey or phone home system. Something that has been broke for as long as I can remember with Windows, but that is besides the point. You’re arguing two different things. Hell, Darwin is open source. Next are you going to tell us that iTunes has been breached because Pre can spoof an iPod USB ID? or that other apps can free access the open iTune DB XML files?


Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Ah you just answered part of the question for me. Good job. The reason Windows is attacked more the OSX is because most viruses are written to attack Windows not OSX. Its not that OSX is more secure its that the attacks are not directed at OSX.

The iPhone is clearly not a secure device and neither is OSX.

The iPhone is a perfect example, when Apple creates a product that is popular and has high market share it gets hacked badly. Another good example is Apple can't even make something like iTunes secure where Pre owners can sync.

Apple isn't trying to hire a new iPhone OS security manager because things are go so great.

Ah, you did go there. You are arguing too many things that don’t go together. What the Pre does is not a security breach. What OSx86 Project does is not a security breach. These are hacking in the sense they are hacking away find solutions to problems but they don’t lead to malware being installed. Now, if I installed OS X on a machine, set it up the machine I could install any malware I choose because I am the one who has physical access to the device. Windows viruses mostly work by getting the user to do it for them, but Windows has been notoriously bad about where apps can run and what they can access. This is less of a problem with *nx.

Some things to ponder… Apple had more viruses before OS X when it had less marketshare than it does now. OS X also doesn’t have a percentage of the viruses to reflect a percentage of their marketshare. Most PCs are very, very cheap, Unix-based systems are used for servers with a lot of valuable information on them. On the consumer side, OS X is on92% of all machines in the US over $1000. That means people with money in the country of largest GDP. Sounds like Unix-based systems would be the idea machines to target.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #160 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

The trick is to just ignore the Control Panel and other menus and use the search function to find everything. Hit the Windows key, type a few letters, hit enter.

I have to mess with Vista from time to time at work, and, I'm not convinced how effective this would be. The way they've changed the network configuration stuff around is ridiculously complicated: a multitude of different panels, none of which make it clear what they do. What would you even search for exactly, and how would you know?

Then, it has a nasty habit of creating multiple duplicate network configurations of its own accord. You can merge them, but why is it doing this in the first place? Microsoft really doesn't understand human interface design at all. They turn the simplest most straightforward things into convoluted, needlessly complex mazes. Sometimes, I think they do it just so they can show one more cute little graphic, because... oh, isn't it cute!
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