AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Windows 7 tops Vista software sales, lags behind in hardware
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Windows 7 tops Vista software sales, lags behind in hardware - Page 4

post #121 of 249
11/6/09 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

There are tons more low end Toyotas too so I guess I better trash that Ferrari of mine, volume obviously proves they are better ... right?

A Toyotta has lower acquisition costs, lower maintenance costs, lower carbon dioxide emissions and is more practical than a Ferrari to get actually things done in life instead of trying to impress people around you. And I've yet to see a Ferrari which can take as much abuse as a Toyotta family van can take over the years.

Ferrari and Apple may not be that different in some aspects: They sell a life-style where in the end it actually doesn't really matter if the good warrants the prize from a pure quality point of view.
Reply
Reply
post #122 of 249
11/6/09 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

It's funny how it took Windows 7 less than a month to take over Snow Leopard

Why is it funny? MS has a higher OS marketshre and Vista wasnt popular, yet even Vista outsold SL by a large margin. It would be funny if they didnt, instead its just expected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

If anything, it is embarrassing that Microsoft defeated Apple in their own game!

Weve talked about this before, MS and Apple arent playing the same game in the PC market. MS sells a PC OS whilst Apple sells PC. The difference between Apple and other PC HW vendors is that Apples strategy is to sell it by also integrating the OS and other software to it. This is not the same stay as MS. Now, Apple if were to license their OS to any and every PC vendor and they still had 4% OS marketshare then youd have a point. Until then, you dont have a leg to stand on.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #123 of 249
11/6/09 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Yes, Apple conceded the bulk of the dekstop market to Microsoft.

Their results:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/21results.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ence_call.html

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/10/19results.html

http://themacfeed.com/?p=3920

http://www.thedomains.com/2009/10/19...revenue-up-25/

Record quarter after record quarter, going back to 2006, with growth outpacing the rest of the industry year over year.

Recession-proof.


Their market:

http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/ar...NPD/1248313624

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._by_apple.html

http://techblips.dailyradar.com/stor...-electronista/


The reaction:


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10019711-37.html

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...g-industry.ars

http://digg.com/apple/Apple_leads_20...faction_survey

http://www.macnn.com/articles/05/08/....no..1.on.csi/

http://theappleblog.com/2009/05/06/a...he-experience/

http://blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2007/...s-customerbase

http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...stomer_sa.html

http://www.cultofmac.com/apple-posts...ion-index/2553

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/22467/

http://bindapple.com/apple-satisfaction-2009-report/

http://www.macnn.com/news/25971

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/14/...action-survey/

http://www.ipodobserver.com/ipo/arti...ff_The_Charts/

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/08...-satisfaction/

http://www.mactivist.com/2009/06/iph...kings-in-japan

http://www.9to5mac.com/jobs-satisfation-rate-high

http://www.jdpower.com/Business/rati...tphone-ratings

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2248040/...ps-top-billing

http://www.eweek.com/prestitial.php?...453807%2F&ref=

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352796,00.asp

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2006/08/5002.ars

http://www.osnews.com/story/15553

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1689554/posts

http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/.../t-224872.html

The cash:

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...vs._microsoft/




Yeah. Really embarrassing . . .


So let me get this. You're saying Apple is doing well in the market. Is anyone in this topic saying otherwise? Nobody is saying they are doing bad financially. Microsoft is not bad financially either. They have both probven to be successful companies in their markets. Hell even Google is recession proof considering their market value and how much control they have over web and search. These three are the big guys of the today's tech
We are talking about marketshare and OS. Microsoft owns the PC market and there is no other way around no matter how many ads gets produced. Microsoft has a tendency stick to their fights and finally prevail. They took on Sony (who made the most successful console of all time) and in this generation they are ahead of Sony.

And let me tell you this. Apple is doing great now but it doesnt mean it will continue forever. They fell once and they can possibly fall again. Sony used to be the commander of the tech industry and today they are a shadow of what used to be the top premium company in the market. Michael Dell had his famous "I'd sell the company and give the money back to the shareholders" moment and look where his company is today compared to Apple. It's easy to climb up but it is way more difficult to maintain that position. Many companies have failed when they reached the absolute top. Microsoft got lucky and learned their lesson few years ago with vista and now they know they should take nothing for granted and hence they are doing much better (and yes, they should thank Apple for that)
Reply
Reply
post #124 of 249
11/6/09 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why is it funny? MS has a higher OS marketshre and Vista wasnt popular, yet even Vista outsold SL by a large margin. It would be funny if they didnt, instead its just expected.



Weve talked about this before, MS and Apple arent playing the same game in the PC market. MS sells a PC OS whilst Apple sells PC. The difference between Apple and other PC HW vendors is that Apples strategy is to sell it by also integrating the OS and other software to it. This is not the same stay as MS. Now, Apple if were to license their OS to any and every PC vendor and they still had 4% OS marketshare then youd have a point. Until then, you dont have a leg to stand on.

LOL, apparently it's news that Windows is outselling OS X.

1) Apple does not license OS X out to every POS vendor and their dog (thankfully.)

2) Not everyone can afford entry into the Mac ecosystem (such is the reality of the Premium segment of retail.)

This is how Apple wants it. And it's proven to be ridiculously successul. It's a shame that everyone tries to emulate Apple in this regard, but only Apple can pull it off.

One would think the above two points would be common knowledge by now. Oh well.
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1685.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1704.gif
Reply
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1685.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1704.gif
Reply
post #125 of 249
11/6/09 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why is it funny? MS has a higher OS marketshre and Vista wasnt popular, yet even Vista outsold SL by a large margin. It would be funny if they didnt, instead its just expected.



Weve talked about this before, MS and Apple arent playing the same game in the PC market. MS sells a PC OS whilst Apple sells PC. The difference between Apple and other PC HW vendors is that Apples strategy is to sell it by also integrating the OS and other software to it. This is not the same stay as MS. Now, Apple if were to license their OS to any and every PC vendor and they still had 4% OS marketshare then youd have a point. Until then, you dont have a leg to stand on.

Apple invented the personal computer market. It was their game. Apple's approach to the PC market has always been hardware locked to software (except the brief period of mac clones). They have advertised this approach as the best one for personal computers (I assume you watch the Mac vs. PC ads). Yet consumers have consistently said no to this approach and they have chosen Microsoft's way of doing things. Nobody forced Apple from beginning to not do what Microsoft did. They could have yet they chose not to because they knew better. Turned out they didn't; Microsoft won and Apple lost in a market that they created themselves
Reply
Reply
post #126 of 249
11/6/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post


If anything, it is embarrassing that Microsoft defeated Apple in their own game!

Which game is that?
Reply
Reply
post #127 of 249
11/6/09 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

It was their game. Apple's approach to the PC market has always been hardware locked to software

You freely admit that Apple’s business model is and has been the synergy of the HW and SW in a complete model that they create. You understand that Apple is directly competing with MS because Apple doesn’t license their OS to any PC vendor. You have acknowledged that Apple is more or less competing with the HW vendors plus whatever OS they use, be it Windows or Linux, so your comparison should be with other PC HW vendors.

HP has a 25% unit marketshare. Yet your previous argument is that Apple doesn’t have a majority unit marketshare on the OS. For Apple to do get 51% of the OS marketshare with their CHOSEN business model (note how that is different than a business model one is forced into) they’d have to get 51% of the PC marketshare. more than twice as much as HP has now selling $400 computers. Do you not see how HP couldn’t possibly do that and how it how be even more impossible for Apple to do that when it doesn’t sell any cheap plastic machines with Pentium or Centrino CPUs?

If you don’t then you don’t understand business at all. You are either very young, have a diet consisting mostly of lead paint and/or are TeckStud. I’m joking on the last two points, of course.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #128 of 249
11/6/09 at 5:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Which game is that?

Ones playing Chess the other is playing Checkers, but because they use the same board they are playing the same game and checkers is better because you can get more Kings.

(still working on the analogy, but I know its in there somewhere)
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #129 of 249
11/6/09 at 5:25pm
... .. ..


Quote:
Originally Posted by wakashizuma View Post

so let me get this. You're saying apple is doing well in the market. Is anyone in this topic saying otherwise?

no. But it's an important point, germaine to the discussion.

nobody is saying they are doing bad financially. Microsoft is not bad financially either.

um . . . One is doing incredibly, unbelievably well (even analysts hardly understand it. The other has been in a steady downward slide for years.

they have both probven to be successful companies in their markets.

they have, yes.

hell even google is recession proof considering their market value and how much control they have over web and search.

google isn't in the hardware business, nor are they in the os business (excepting android.)

these three are the big guys of the today's tech

can't argue with that.

we are talking about marketshare and os. Microsoft owns the pc market and there is no other way around no matter how many ads gets produced.

so? What exactly does ms' marketshare mean in relation to apple? How is that signficant? Apple has completely bypassed ms' marketshare pressure and is in a completely different league, dictating the trends. Ms chose to license their os to everyone and their dog. Apple did not. Apple rules its segment of the market. Ms and the generic box-makers are sccrambling for the bottom end. Ms' marketing campaign against apple failed miserably.

Yes, ms has the biggest share. Like any second-rate budget brand. When you lose the premium end, you've lost the kind of consumer that helps build the desirability of your brand name. Just ask the laptop hunter talent; they all wanted macs, but not every one could afford them, for whatever reason. The message was pretty clear. Apple doesn't do low end, and you have to pay to play. Very typical for a premium manufactuer.

microsoft has a tendency stick to their fights and finally prevail.

i'm not sure what this means. "prevail" in terms of what? And ms is notorious for sticking to wrong-headed ideas and underperfoming products. Ms is wasteful, and their finances show this in abundance. Hence, their lousy financial performance for the last few years, especially for the last 2-3 quarters. How long are consumers supposed to wait for ms to "prevail", while the smaller, leaner, meaner competition keeps releasing game-changing products, year after year? It's easy to label "failure" (i.e., winmo) as some sort of hidden, "long-term" strategy to success. Yes, ms meant to do that!! Right. I'm sure that's what ballmer's thinking during those embarrasing press conferences in rooms full of macs as he fumbles his way through yet another apple-obsessed speech. Ballmer knows people with $$ aren't buying his products he's peddling, which means? I think we all know what that means.

they took on sony (who made the most successful console of all time) and in this generation they are ahead of sony.

yes, they make a great console. Can't deny that. Unfortunately, their long-term xbox strategy doesn't seem to translate well anywhere else in the microsoft organization. They made the most successful "smartphone", nd in this generation over decade of work has been wiped out in two years by a competitor new to the game. And the bleeding continues.

and let me tell you this. Apple is doing great now but it doesnt mean it will continue forever.

obviously. Same can be said for every other company out there. Enter gm.

they fell once and they can possibly fall again.

ok. It's certanly *possible*, like anything else.

sony used to be the commander of the tech industry and today they are a shadow of what used to be the top premium company in the market. Michael dell had his famous "i'd sell the company and give the money back to the shareholders" moment and look where his company is today compared to apple.

i agree.

it's easy to climb up but it is way more difficult to maintain that position.

true. That's true for any company.

many companies have failed when they reached the absolute top.

in a manner of speaking, yes.

microsoft got lucky and learned their lesson few years ago with vista and now they know they should take nothing for granted and hence they are doing much better (and yes, they should thank apple for that)

once again, i agree. The lesson-learned remains to be seen (give win 7 a few months to perform out in the wild), but so far it's looking good.

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1685.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1704.gif
Reply
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1685.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1704.gif
Reply
post #130 of 249
11/6/09 at 5:39pm
.. ... .


Quote:
Originally Posted by wakashizuma View Post

apple invented the personal computer market. It was their game.

sure.

apple's approach to the pc market has always been hardware locked to software (except the brief period of mac clones).

yes, exactly.

they have advertised this approach as the best one for personal computers (i assume you watch the mac vs. Pc ads).

they sure have.

yet consumers have consistently said no to this approach and they have chosen microsoft's way of doing things.

they actually haven't. Ignorance, inertia, universal licensing and cheap go a long way. In fact, it's characteristic of a typical budget-brand.

Consumers keep handing apple record quarter after record quarter. In recession. Apple is selling *more* macs. With cheaper, allegedly "higher value" options available. Yet people are lining up in order to contribute to record mac sales. The only one in the industry. Did i mention this happened in a recession?

nobody forced apple from beginning to not do what microsoft did. '

if i'm reading that correctly, the answer woud be yes. Apple's strategy is and was, deliberate and self-imposed.

they could have yet they chose not to because they knew better.

i assume that's laudatory of apple's strategy, so i'll go with yes. Apple knew better.

turned out they didn't;

except they did. Witness 2006-present.

microsoft won

won what? The bottom-end dregs? King of the bargain bin? Sure. Awesome to be associated with what people "settle for" when they aren't able to get the what thet really want. Unless ms was lying in its laptop hunter ads. Ms' profit keep dropping. Apple's keep rising. I'm not sure what ms is "winning" here.

and apple lost in a market that they created themselves

in exchange for ruling the premium segment of the market, commanding a ridiculous amount of mindshare, with i believe more cash on hand than ms now (what, 33 billion?), and charging basically whatever they please because they know everyone's falling all over each other to buy into the mac ecosystem.

Recession-proof.

Yup. Huge loss.
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1685.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1704.gif
Reply
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1685.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1704.gif
Reply
post #131 of 249
11/6/09 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Typical Apple hipster fanboy who dislikes when people critize Apple. If you criticize Apple, then you must shut up because mighty Apple is above everything. Instead of wearing of those tight shirts on your fat belly try to be a realist; not everyone bends over to Apple!

Man, we're really getting a lot of these angry types who didn't get enough love from their parents, lately.
Reply
Reply
post #132 of 249
11/6/09 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Macs use the exact same compotents as the PCs out there hence why they can proclaim that they can run Windows too! They use the exact same processor, chipset, memory, graphics chip and so on! There isn't anything Ferrari like in a mac as much as you guys love the cars argument! If macs used a different hardware, then maybe you could make the argument (although we know how the whole PowerPC is better than Intel turned out!)

Red Bull used the same engine as Renault in F1 this past season, manufactured by Renault, in fact, yet the Red Bull was one of the best cars on the grid and Renault one of the worst. The Mac is clearly the Red Bull car here.
Reply
Reply
post #133 of 249
11/6/09 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

The whole who stole my idea is getting old and nobody cares about it anymore.

I suppose it does get tiresome to always have to hear that your platform is like the shadows on the cave walls. Well, sorry, but it's not our fault.
Reply
Reply
post #134 of 249
11/6/09 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Many companies have failed when they reached the absolute top. Microsoft got lucky and learned their lesson few years ago with vista and now they know they should take nothing for granted and hence they are doing much better (and yes, they should thank Apple for that)

Actually, Microsoft didn't learn anything. Their fall is coming soon. Google has their number and it won't be that long now. And they don't even know what to do about it.
Reply
Reply
post #135 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

Apple invented the personal computer market. It was their game. Apple's approach to the PC market has always been hardware locked to software (except the brief period of mac clones). They have advertised this approach as the best one for personal computers (I assume you watch the Mac vs. PC ads). Yet consumers have consistently said no to this approach and they have chosen Microsoft's way of doing things. Nobody forced Apple from beginning to not do what Microsoft did. They could have yet they chose not to because they knew better. Turned out they didn't; Microsoft won and Apple lost in a market that they created themselves

Revisionist history. Microsoft didn't take over the PC market, IBM did, Microsoft just got lucky and came along for the ride.
Reply
Reply
post #136 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakashizuma View Post

It's funny how it took Windows 7 less than a month to take over Snow Leopard

It's funny, but, when you say it like that, it makes Windows 7 seem like some sort of virus. Maybe Boot Camp isn't such a good idea.
Reply
Reply
post #137 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

LOL, apparently it's news that Windows is outselling OS X.

1) Apple does not license OS X out to every POS vendor and their dog (thankfully.)

2) Not everyone can afford entry into the Mac ecosystem (such is the reality of the Premium segment of retail.)

This is how Apple wants it. And it's proven to be ridiculously successul. It's a shame that everyone tries to emulate Apple in this regard, but only Apple can pull it off.

One would think the above two points would be common knowledge by now. Oh well.

Anyone can afford an entry level Mac the mac mini is 599.00 and the macbook is 999.00. Hardly out of the reach of anyone if they really wanted to get a mac. Not to mention refurbs and student discounts.

Apple had to pretty much give away SL to sell it.

Also Microsoft isnt in the hardware business so they could care less if their OS goes on a 300.00 netbook or a 5k gaming system. They have no reason to care about the hardware end.
Reply
Reply
post #138 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's funny, but, when you say it like that, it makes Windows 7 seem like some sort of virus. Maybe Boot Camp isn't such a good idea.

Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.

OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.
Reply
Reply
post #139 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Also Microsoft isnt in the hardware business so they could care less if their OS goes on a 300.00 netbook or a 5k gaming system. They have no reason to care about the hardware end.

Well, yes, that's been obvious for some time now.
Reply
Reply
post #140 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.

OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.

Mac OS X is vulnerable. At this years Pwn 2 Own contest the Mac was hacked in 2 minutes!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/p...-minutes-flat/

While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #141 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, yes, that's been obvious for some time now.

By the way you forgot to comment on why the iPhone is so easy to hack if Apple makes such secure software. You know seeing Windows is the only one with virus problems.
Reply
Reply
post #142 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Mac OS X is vulnerable. At this years Pwn 2 Own contest the Mac was hacked in 2 minutes!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/p...-minutes-flat/

While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!

OSX is rather easy to hack its been proven time and time again. Also in spite of Apples best efforts its rather easy to install on a PC with little to no effort.
Reply
Reply
post #143 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.

OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.

What exactly happened to make you such a bitter person?
Reply
Reply
post #144 of 249
11/6/09 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.

OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.

Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.

In 2009 Pwn 2 Own it only took a few SECONDS to hack the Mac!!!!

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #145 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

What exactly happened to make you such a bitter person?

Try not to use smoke and mirrors to avoid answering a question you know you can't answer. Its not being bitter when your pointing out the truth.

The iPhone security is poor and OSX can easily be hacked and installed on a PC. Its not like we all dont know these are facts.

Being the fanboi that you are you only want to bash companies like Microsoft but get all upset when you know Apple has the same kinds of issues. You and Quadra should be roomates.
Reply
Reply
post #146 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Mac OS X is vulnerable. At this years Pwn 2 Own contest the Mac was hacked in 2 minutes!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/p...-minutes-flat/

While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.

In 2009 Pwn 2 Own it only took a few SECONDS to hack the Mac!!!!

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917

You’re not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.

He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and it’s not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition. That means Safari on Windows, Firefox on Windows, OS X or Linux, or IE8 on Windows all have a vulnerability that allow access to the user account if you click on a specific link.

Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they don’t actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #147 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Youre not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.

He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and its not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition.

Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they dont actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.

No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #148 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.

Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.

What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
Reply
Reply
post #149 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....

Mea culpa! Same hack known for a year and no one tried to use it. On that point Apple really has let their consumer base down. My other points still stand. It was a browser hack, not an OS X hack and all browsers were hacked.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #150 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.

What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.

Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.
I was just replying to the general statement that someone made about Windows being vulnerable to viruses and being less secure than the Mac.
Here is another excerpt from the Charlie Miller interview after Pwn 2 Own 2009 and the link to the full interview at the end of the quote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
Why Safari? Why didnt you go after IE or Safari?

Its really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs dont do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You dont have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations youd find in Windows.

Its more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesnt have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
Link to the full interview:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #151 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its not being bitter when your pointing out the truth.

The two are not mutually exclusive, they aren't even related. But, it's an interesting sort of rationalization about yourself that you display. Still, while there are some posters, totally lacking in self-awareness, who may not even be aware of their bitterness, I think you are, but just unable to control it.

And, as I mentioned above, your point while perhaps academically interesting, doesn't reflect the situation in real world usage, which is what really matters, after all.
Reply
Reply
post #152 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it.

i know what he is getting it. Some of that did change with SL, especially 64-bit SL. Next year we’ll see Chrome in the mix and new OSes all around.

Now, how are viruses likely getting into user’s computers? I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t run as admin on my Mac. I run as a regular user for added protection. I even pay bills with my iPhone since the carrier’s network is more secure than the hotel network’s I use.

PS: I’ve read your posts, you don’t hostile to me. The large font was a little obnoxious, but not hostile.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #153 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

i know what he is getting it. Some of that did change with SL, especially 64-bit SL. Next year well see Chrome in the mix and new OSes all around.


PS: Ive read your posts, you dont hostile to me. The large font was a little obnoxious, but not hostile.

Point taken with the large fonts...it was overkill! :-)
You bring up some interesting points about next years Pwn 2 Own. It will be interesting to see
Snow Leopard with:
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Windows 7
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Ubuntu Linux
Firefox

I can't wait!

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #154 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.

Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.
Reply
Reply
post #155 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.

Yeah...the extra large fonts was overkill and not needed...i guess i was shouting and didn't realize I was! :-)

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #156 of 249
11/6/09 at 8:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Point taken with the large fonts...it was overkill! :-)
You bring up some interesting points about next years Pwn 2 Own. It will be interesting to see
Snow Leopard with:
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Windows 7
Safari
Firefox
Chrome

Ubuntu Linux
Firefox

I can't wait!

I wonder if theyll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carriers network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #157 of 249
11/6/09 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.

What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.

Malware is pretty much a non issue for Windows x64 systems. Its a myth that todays Windows systems are full of BSOD and viruses.

Macs are not hacked because its not worth the time to hack them.
Reply
Reply
post #158 of 249
11/7/09 at 1:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Isn't wasn't heavily hyped at all compared to Vista whereas everyone was anticipating it for years when it was originally called Longhorn.
After release though it has been properly advertised, unlike Vista- and unlike Snow Leopard for that matter.

Longhorn is a proper name for the average Windows user because (to paraphrase a line from Bugs Bunny) they are gull-a-bull. You may groan now.
Reply
Reply
post #159 of 249
11/7/09 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

A Toyotta has lower acquisition costs, lower maintenance costs, lower carbon dioxide emissions and is more practical than a Ferrari to get actually things done in life instead of trying to impress people around you. And I've yet to see a Ferrari which can take as much abuse as a Toyotta family van can take over the years.

Ferrari and Apple may not be that different in some aspects: They sell a life-style where in the end it actually doesn't really matter if the good warrants the prize from a pure quality point of view.

The problem with this comparison is it has been shown repeatably by studies by the Gartner Group that Mac cost less over the long haul. So it is more Mac being high quality with the PC going between Toyota on the high end to AMC's Gremlin on the low.

Actually that is an insult...the Gremlin had better quality.
Reply
Reply
post #160 of 249
11/7/09 at 4:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wonder if they’ll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carrier’s network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.

That would be very interesting to see.
Which smart phones would be used for comparison?
I know the iPhone for sure but I wonder what other phones......
The difference here in the US is that we don't have the exact phone on different service providers.
Every service provider has different phones......
But it would interesting to see which phones get owned first.
Would it be through the cell network, wireless access or BT or even tethered......
Would jail broken iPhones be included?

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Windows 7 tops Vista software sales, lags behind in hardware