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post #161 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Its so hard trying to use common sense with a 13 year old which clearly you either are or have the mind of one.

There isn't anything frantic about my posting because unlike you this isn't an emotional situation for me, I dont look at my computer like its a loved one, you do.

It's always fun to watch the trolls deny they are emotional. Clearly, you are extremely worked up and angry. No, it's not about love, it's about hate and jealousy for you.

Quote:
The reason Windows has more security patches is because its attacked far more. If you read my post to Quadra above I also give other examples.

That just doesn't make any logical sense. If it were simply more attack/security hole, one patch would take care of them all. More patches indicates more holes. There's simply no arguing around that. You've admitted the point you are arguing against, not that we expect you to admit that you've admitted it.

Quote:
If you cant bring yourself to have a real debate then you don't need to post to me anymore if your just going to come up with childish and useless comments. If your trying to get me to leave the forum that isnt going to happen.

No, I don't expect you to leave. Your entire self-worth is based on never admitting you are wrong, and leaving would be a tacit admission of that. Sorry that you don't appreciate my digs at your expense, but, hey, that's one of the hazards of trolling, you end up the object of ridicule. Don't get too angry, now, we don't want your head to explode.
post #162 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

These all go together. Gaining access to something that has security in place is a security breach. The iTunes/Pre situation is a security breach if it wasn't Apple wouldn't be putting out patches to try and keep Pre from syncing. That is a breach in security.

Jailbreaking an iPhone is a security breach.

Less virus problem on a Mac now most likely due to going to a true 64bit OS same goes for Windows. Most viruses are written for 32bit systems.

Now you're simply repeating issues that have already been refuted. Oh, and do you think that most viruses being written for 32 bit systems has anything to do with the fact that most systems are 32 bit systems, Mac and Windows? Your reasoning today is even weaker than it usually is.
post #163 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Yes, most malware is written for Windows.

There are no OS X viruses in the wild. Nothing that requires any antivirus of any kind. A lot of us even have the OS X firewall turned off. Save for around two trojans (one of which doesn't really do anything) - let's be fair, and a handful of proof-of-concepts that show up every year as part of contests, and the like, that never make it out of the lab.

The fact that Mac OS X represents around 5% of the worldwide installed base of computers might explain why there are fewer Mac viruses. But it wouldn't explain why there are none. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of PC viruses, a handful of Mac OS 9 viruses, and not one for Mac OS X. There are mrore for Linux than there are for OS X. There were more for the Mac OS before OS X, when Apple had much smaller market share.

Even counting those two little Trojan horsies (two?? Might as well be zero), no malware in the wild for Macs. Nothing. There are over 50 million Mac users. It's been nine years. And nothing. The obscurity argument would hold if there were a few hundred out there in the wild. But there's nothing.

We're currently surfing the net with impunity. In complete safety because hackers just don't seem to care about the 50 million or so Mac users out there or Apple's "smug" commercials and entire ad campaign that's been going on for years?

Obscurity? I'll give that to you, even though it's hardly valid. May MS continue to market a poor, back-asswards copy of OS X that runs on every single POS box out there and presents the biggest target, while Apple remains in control of the segregated, exclusive, and oh-so-special-with-sugar-on-top Premium segment.

Either way, malware will continue to be written for Windows with no let-up. Especially now. And if Windows 7 is the Second Coming like you and the other Windows sufferers say it is, then Mac users will be surfing free and easy for a long time to come. Hey, if it works for you, it works for me, too.

Wait a minute.......you have been on these forums telling how great and "premium" the Mac is and how much "mind share" Apple has, yet you don't think hackers are writing things for the Mac?
At the 2009 Pwn 2 Own the Mac was hacked in 10 seconds! By a known exploit that was sent to Apple and ignored. The exploit can be embedded into web pages and then used to install a Trojan.
The Mac was compromised FIRST for 3 years running! It was hacked before the Vista machine.
Do you know whether you have a Trojan?
How do you know? You are not running Anti Virus software...
How do you know whether your Mac is being used for Denial of service attacks?
How do you know? You don't know. So which is more memorable to attack and control the run of the mill Windows machine or maybe a "premium" "mind share" grabbing Mac. Apple is picking up more and more market share. That is great news. I love Apple products and I am not writing this to bash them in anyway at all.
Here is an excerpt from Charlie Miller interview. The guy that hacked the Mac 2 years in a row.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>
Why Safari? Why didnt you go after IE or Safari?

Its really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs dont do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You dont have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations youd find in Windows.

Its more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesnt have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>

Interview link:http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941

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post #164 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Fact is I own more Apple products then you do and I have owned more then you will be able to afford in our lifetime. Just because I dont get down on my knees and kiss them everyday does't make me a troll.

The fact that you think Windows networking is complicated just makes me wonder about your technical ablility. Maybe you should sign up for AOL I hear that make it easier for you to use the scary internet...LOL

See, this is exactly the inferiority complex I'm talking about, rearing its ugly head. I always love it when trolls start boasting about their income and technical prowess. But, sorry, your arguments are weak, your reasoning is weak, and your bitterness at life obvious.
post #165 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

These all go together. Gaining access to something that has security in place is a security breach. The iTunes/Pre situation is a security breach if it wasn't Apple wouldn't be putting out patches to try and keep Pre from syncing. That is a breach in security.

Palm is relabeling their USB ID to say its an iPod. This is a very simple thing to achieve. It has nothing to do with hacking into iTunes or OS X. you rewrite and USB device to say its a different item. All the iTunes does is register the device in the side bar since its correctly labeled as an iPod. There is no hacking of iTunes. I can make an USB key drive show up as a Zune if i use its ID. Its not a big deal.

I cant respond to your posts anymore. Youre not objective, to twist everything and you try to tie arguments together that disparate. This is either on purpose for the sake of trolling or you really dont know the difference. Either way, Im out. Have a good weekend.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #166 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Very good points, how do they know if they have a trojan or not?

We don't need to know. We're running OS X.

Hackers don't care about us, remember?
post #167 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Very good points, how do they know if they have a trojan or not? Everyone thinks that every virus detroys your system when in fact most are harmless. People can run with a virus on their system for years and it has little to no impact on performance

That is 100% correct. Not all malware or viruses will give themselves away. Why would it? Malware can install a Trojan and just lay dormant until it is wakened by the malware writer then used for whatever they want. They can then install other malware like key loggers or be used to launch denial of service attacks. A denial of service attack is just like a ping command. Unless you are monitoring outbound traffic from your network you will not know it is going on.
With Apple getting more and more market share the infection rate for Macs will increase accordingly.
That is just fact.......

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post #168 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

We don't need to know. We're running OS X.

Hackers don't care about us, remember?

Ahhhh....ignorance is bliss.......

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post #169 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Ahhhh....ignorance is bliss.......

Nothing to protect against.

Not my fault there's been nothing for the past nine years, and that by the looks of it, there'll continue to be nothing - especially if Windows 7 sells well.
post #170 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

T
With Apple getting more and more market share the infection rate for Macs will increase accordingly.
That is just fact.......

Except they're not.

At what percentage will they begin? 12%? 15%? Will we even see 15% anytime soon?

And how big is OS X's market share realistically going to get in the market, given closed licensing, a closed business model, and price?

After all, didn't Ballmer blow off about how Windows 7 will take back all the market share Macs have gained since 2006? My my, Windows 7's greatness alone should keep market share in check, right? Isn't that what Windows sufferers have been saying for months now? Hell, Windows 7's already outsold Leopard, right? Not that that statsitic means anything, but it's something that's apparently meaningful to Windows sufferers.

So what's it going to be? Rocketing Mac marketshare, or Windows 7's popularity? Don't tell me that Windows 7 will fail to get back all that lost market share and reclaim some of those customers with $1000+ to spend! I mean, come on, it's Windows 7!
post #171 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Fact is I own more Apple products then you do and I have owned more then you will be able to afford in our lifetime. Just because I dont get down on my knees and kiss them everyday does't make me a troll.

Just to follow up on this and point out that it indicates you lack all credibility, or are completely irrational...

We'll ignore the fact that you have no way of knowing my income or the number of Apple or other products I own, this being just a stupid boast on your part.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you own absolutely scads of Apple products. Your entire argument is that Windows is better than Mac OS (and that the iPhone sucks because it can be jailbroken). So, by reason, this implies that you own even more Windows products, otherwise, why do you own more Apple products than Windows products if Apple sucks so much and Windows is so great? In fact why would you own any Apple products at all? So, you apparently can't resist buying hardware, Mac and Windows based, and you have absolutely piles of computers around your house, most of which you never use because, well, how many computers can you productively use, and there must just be dozens of each, which would be entirely irrational. So, you're either completely irrational and buy all this Apple stuff despite the fact that it sucks in comparison to Windows. Or, you lack all credibility and these are just empty words.

I'm willing to go both ways on the question: irrational and lacking in credibility.
post #172 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Ah yet again a myth that you can't back up. Years ago most Windows systems were 32bit but over the last 2 years 64bit systems are becoming the standard. All you have to do is go to any site that sells systems and look at what comes with them 64 or 32bit. You will see 64bit is now standard and it will just be a matter of time once people trade up where 64bit will be what everyone is running.

I believe HP and Dell don't even offer 32bit as an option anymore.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/deskt...s&cs=19&~ck=mn

Look across the screen at the OS option they are all 64bit

Are you really making this pathetic argument? Seriously? You actually think there are more 64 bit systems in the installed base than 32 bit? Based on what Dell is currently selling? You offer this as a rational argument?

OK, you are obviously less intelligent than I was willing to give you credit for being.
post #173 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Except they're not.

At what percentage will they begin? 12%? 15%? Will we even see 15% anytime soon?

And how big is OS X's market share realistically going to get in the market, given closed licensing, a closed business model, and price?

After all, didn't Ballmer blow off about how Windows 7 will take back all the market share Macs have gained since 2006? My my, Windows 7's greatness alone should keep market share in check, right? Isn't that what Windows sufferers have been saying for months now? Hell, Windows 7's already outsold Leopard, right? Not that that statsitic means anything, but it's something that's apparently meaningful to Windows sufferers.

So what's it going to be? Rocketing Mac marketshare, or Windows 7's popularity? Don't tell me that Windows 7 will fail to get back all that lost market share and reclaim some of those customers with $1000+ to spend! I mean, come on, it's Windows 7!

But see you miss my point entirely. I am not say how great Windows 7 is or will be. I am not bashing Apple or the Mac.

I posted factual information about Macs. You just take everything personally and you always do.
Mac are susceptible to all kinds of malware and Trojans just like Windows. Except there TONS more malware and viruses for Windows because of the larger target audience. But make no mistake the Mac is not a secure a OS as you think.
It has been hacked in less time than a Vista machine!
So don't take this as an attack on you or Apple....don't take it personal...we are just discussing technology and computer hardware and software......

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post #174 of 215
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Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Palm is relabeling their USB ID to say it’s an iPod. This is a very simple thing to achieve. It has nothing to do with hacking into iTunes or OS X. you rewrite and USB device to say it’s a different item. All the iTunes does is register the device in the side bar since it’s correctly labeled as an iPod. There is no hacking of iTunes. I can make an USB key drive show up as a Zune if i use its ID. It’s not a big deal.

I can’t respond to your posts anymore. You’re not objective, to twist everything and you try to tie arguments together that disparate. This is either on purpose for the sake of trolling or you really don’t know the difference. Either way, I’m out…. Have a good weekend.

I was reading estremeskater post about Pre syncing with iTunes as security breach and thought more BS from this person, glad you set him straight Solipsism.

He suppose to be in IT industry and says he reads all up to date Apple issues going on, obviously not!

I never been on MS web site to discuss their products, since I do not like them, I use MS products for work and always frustrated, so made a decision, not to be cheap and buy a quality computer system (software and hardware) that give me less issues and I go to ONE computer company to resolve any issues.

Ever though I do not like MS, I would not troll on their web site, just childish and honestly and would show I am jealous, which is not the case.
MS does have 1-2 potentially good products, but the pain and frustration outweighs the good of the products.

One of those products could be Windows 7, but I wait for it to mature more before taking the plunge, since I still have bitter taste from Vista.
post #175 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

.. ... .

Very good points made. However, as I have stated in an earlier post, Windows 7 might be a fun for the consumer, but my bet is that most businesses will view Windows 7 as Vista, service pack 3 and therefore not adopt it. Windows XP will continue to dominate the enterprise. Imagine all of the new enterprise PC orders that ship with Seven home edition, only to be wiped and replaced with XP. It is happening now.

What kills Apple adoption in the enterprise is MS Exchange/Outlook. Kill Exchange with a superior and cheaper mail server product that a CIO cannot refuse, and then there will be no reason to buy a Mac and then be forced to run parallels/boot camp just to run Outlook. (Entourage is a crappier product than Outlook). If you need to run boot camp/parallels to run Outlook, then why buy a mac in the first place?
post #176 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Fact is I own more Apple products then you do and I have owned more then you will be able to afford in our lifetime.

There! Right there is where you let yourself down.
post #177 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post

Very good points made. However, as I have stated in an earlier post, Windows 7 might be a fun for the consumer, but my bet is that most businesses will view Windows 7 as Vista, service pack 3 and therefore not adopt it. Windows XP will continue to dominate the enterprise. Imagine all of the new enterprise PC orders that ship with Seven home edition, only to be wiped and replaced with XP. It is happening now.

What kills Apple adoption in the enterprise is MS Exchange/Outlook. Kill Exchange with a superior and cheaper mail server product that a CIO cannot refuse, and then there will be no reason to buy a Mac and then be forced to run parallels/boot camp just to run Outlook. (Entourage is a crappier product than Outlook). If you need to run boot camp/parallels to run Outlook, then why buy a mac in the first place?

I think you are missing some very important facts about Windows in an enterprise environment.
One first is Active Directory integration. Macs don't integrate well into Active Directory.
Also the ability to write Group Policy Objects in AD that control computer behavior.
At my work they are testing the 100 iPhones in our work environment but they are finding that the iPhone is so much more insecure that a BB. The companies data is not protected as well as on a BB with device encryption. Also we have tons of products and applications that bind and tie into our other MS solutions and Exchange is certainly one of them. Apple has no competing products for anything close to what MS does for enterprise companies.

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post #178 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Being able to remote access a system is not the only form of security breach. Anytime a company tries to prevent something and someone can get around it that is a security breach.

There is no system in the world that someone with the determination and knowledge to do so cannot break into if they have physical access and the time. It's a meaningless point.
post #179 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

No on has set me straight on anything because you guys like to pass by all the other issue and play word games with one issue.

No one has set you straight because you aren't here for rational discussion.
post #180 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.

Poor reading comprehension from your own reference is amusing.

"Did you consider reporting the vulnerability to Apple?

I never give up free bugs. I have a new campaign. Its called NO MORE FREE BUGS. Vulnerabilities have a market value so it makes no sense to work hard to find a bug, write an exploit and then give it away. Apple pays people to do the same job so we know theres value to this work. No more free bugs."

and

"Does it work on Safari for Windows?

I dont know. I didnt look."

It's true that Leopard didn't fully implement ALSR but so far most OSX exploits have relied on social engineering (getting the user to run the exploit as admin). OSX has DEP but still allows heap allocated memory execution. Snow Leopard has NX bit support in 64 bit mode but older 32 bit machines are still vulnerable.

So really, Apple only needs to fully implement ALSR to achieve security parity with Win7 on any new Macs. That and default the firewall and virtual memory to more secure modes. Personally, I think working on GCD was much more useful than hardening Snow Leopard.

The biggest advantage (from an enterprise perspective) is that Win7 works better than Vista and is far more secure than XP. OSX is between XP and Vista/Win7 in hardness.

Win7 will be a big winner for MS, both for the enterprise and for the consumer market. It also gives MS a leg up in terms of multi-touch support on the desktop vs Apple. At least in the near term before the next big kitty release. Still though, MS has some significantly nice developer tools in WPF, LINQ, Multitouch SDK, and so forth.
post #181 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

You focus on the mild issue because you cant address the iPhones issues raised and the issues with hacking OSX.

Heh...issues with OSX security in the wild has been mild. As in those security vulnerabilities have not translated into widespread attacks. Wake me when an OSX botnet has been created with something other than users installing pirated software...
post #182 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Poor reading comprehension from your own reference is amusing.

"Did you consider reporting the vulnerability to Apple?

I never give up free bugs. I have a new campaign. Its called NO MORE FREE BUGS. Vulnerabilities have a market value so it makes no sense to work hard to find a bug, write an exploit and then give it away. Apple pays people to do the same job so we know theres value to this work. No more free bugs."

and

"Does it work on Safari for Windows?

I dont know. I didnt look."

It's true that Leopard didn't fully implement ALSR but so far most OSX exploits have relied on social engineering (getting the user to run the exploit as admin). OSX has DEP but still allows heap allocated memory execution. Snow Leopard has NX bit support in 64 bit mode but older 32 bit machines are still vulnerable.

So really, Apple only needs to fully implement ALSR to achieve security parity with Win7 on any new Macs. That and default the firewall and virtual memory to more secure modes. Personally, I think working on GCD was much more useful than hardening Snow Leopard.

The biggest advantage (from an enterprise perspective) is that Win7 works better than Vista and is far more secure than XP. OSX is between XP and Vista/Win7 in hardness.

Win7 will be a big winner for MS, both for the enterprise and for the consumer market. It also gives MS a leg up in terms of multi-touch support on the desktop vs Apple. At least in the near term before the next big kitty release. Still though, MS has some significantly nice developer tools in WPF, LINQ, Multitouch SDK, and so forth.

You need to put it context. Charlie Miller did report it to Apple in 2007 then it went unpatched and the SAME exploit was used again in 2008 Pwn 2 Own then it went unpatched and he used the SAME exploit again to compromise the Mac again. It was all over the news and the internet and Apple never patched it. Charlie was making a joke about reporting the exploits because Apple ignored him for 3 years about the same exploit.
Did you also read the part about OS X being easier to compromise than Windows? Did you just ignore that part?

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post #183 of 215
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Originally Posted by tonton View Post

This same naïve argument again and again.

Ask yourself, why are you here on a Mac forum ranting about how bad Apple is and how great Windows is?

Don't you think there's one hacker out there who would like to "put Apple in its place" the way you're attempting to on this forum?

Pay attention.

There are two reasons hackers write malware and viruses.

One reason is money. Many hackers want to infect as many machines as possible so that they can run spam farms and harvest information for profit. It makes sense that this type of hacker would target the platform with the largest market share.

But the other reasons hackers do what they do is for notoriety. Maybe they want to be "king of the hacker hill" or maybe they hope to land a job.

There's absolutely no reason this type of hacker wouldn't target OS X.

Just ask yourself this simple question:

Who would gain more notoriety?

A) The writer of the 648,014th widespread, successful exploit for windows, or;
B) The writer of the FIRST widespread, successful exploit for Mac OS X?

If you think there are no viruses for Mac because of market share, you're pretty short on logic.

The fact is there were viruses for the Mac back in the 68000/PowerPC days and that was when the Mac had a lesser marketshare then today. If people were willing to write some 40 Mac viruses for the Classic then with its larger marketshare MacOS X should have as many--but it doesn't. That alone should tell you something.
post #184 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

It would only be a meaningless point if Apple didnt try to use in its ads that OSX is somehow immune from attacks.

Compared to windows, it is. You're desperately clinging to a rather thin thread.
post #185 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I have your attention. You can stop posting to me anytime

Yes, I'm sure you'd be very happy to be allowed to post your nonsense without always having to be contradicted by the facts. You have our attention because of your non-stop barrage of outright false, inaccurate, misleading and absolutely stupid claims. Propagandists are always happy to have a clear field for their brazenly false claims.
post #186 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Let me see. Nope don't feel like I let myself down.

I never expected that you would. Perhaps you have been posting unsubstantiated boasts about your, anonymous, self for a little too long.
post #187 of 215
Again, the reason there are no exploits in the wild targeting OS X has nothing to do with market share, and anyone who says it does just looks stupider and stupider.

The hacker who writes the first widely effective malware of any type for OS X is going to be famous. Don't you think there are hackers out there who want to be famous?

There's no doubt that some have tried. They have failed, because OS X is a safer environment than Windows. Full stop.
post #188 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Macs are not hacked because its not worth the time to hack them.

Tell that to you beloved Charlie Miller. Made him a household name. So much so, he ended up looking like a total ass when he lambasted Snow Leopard for not having 64-bit ASLR and that made it less secure than Windows.

Right after, Microsoft put out an advisory to shut down an open port (open by default) that would allow remote code execution on their flagship operating system of the time, Microsoft Vista. I'm sure he did a facepalm.
post #189 of 215
The simple reality is that there is no malware for OS X, and there's over 100,000 for Windows. And counting.

Been this way for years. Every year since 2001 we were told that that tidal wave of malware for OS X was just around the corner and we'd be toast. Every year since 2001 we were told that as OS X gains market share, malware will proliferate.

And here we are nearly nine years later. Still nothing. Hackers have had NINE YEARS to shut Apple up. Hasn't happened. Doesn't make one whit of difference why.

You can talk about security, about how easy it is to hack whichever platform, etc. It makes no damn difference when, yet again, Mac users will have another year of surfing the net unimpeded. And Apple will have a wonderful time, entirely justified, with promoting OS X as the safest platform. And they're right.
post #190 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The simple reality is that there is no malware for OS X, and there's over 100,000 for Windows. And counting.

Been this way for years. Every year since 2001 we were told that that tidal wave of malware for OS X was just around the corner and we'd be toast. Every year since 2001 we were told that as OS X gains market share, malware will proliferate.

And here we are nearly nine years later. Still nothing. Hackers have had NINE YEARS to shut Apple up. Hasn't happened. Doesn't make one whit of difference why.

You can talk about security, about how easy it is to hack whichever platform, etc. It makes no damn difference when, yet again, Mac users will have another year of surfing the net unimpeded. And Apple will have a wonderful time, entirely justified, with promoting OS X as the safest platform. And they're right.

The Mac gets compromised in 2 minutes in 2008. Then gets hacked in 10 seconds in 2009 at the Pwn 2 Own. The guy who hacked the Mac for 3 years running tells everyone that he reported the exploit to Apple for 3 years and the exploit has not been patched yet to his knowledge.
The same hacker becomes a household name get tons of publicity and notoriety. The exploit get posted all over the internet. You admit that you don't use any kind of anti virus because of a false sense of security and hatred for Windows. The now famous hacker Charlie Miller tells everyone in the post 2009 Pwn 2 Own that OS X is inherently less secure than Windows
Here is the article again:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>
Why Safari? Why didn’t you go after IE or Safari?

It’s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows.

It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
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Link to the full article:http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941

Here is another link to article explaining how Apple and Macs are becoming targets because they are becoming trophys to brag about after they are hacked:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=995&tag=rbxccnbzd1

Here is another article: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-251586.html

Apple even recommends all users run anti virus software since 2008!:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12...mac_av_advice/

I think there is some mis information concerning Macs and viruses. There are no known viruses in the wild currently targeting Macs. BUT a Trojan is not defined as a virus!!!!
Do a Google search for Trojans on Macs and see everything you come up with you will be surprised.
And if you did get a Trojan how would you know you have one????

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post #191 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The simple reality is that there is no malware for OS X, and there's over 100,000 for Windows. And counting.

Been this way for years. Every year since 2001 we were told that that tidal wave of malware for OS X was just around the corner and we'd be toast. Every year since 2001 we were told that as OS X gains market share, malware will proliferate.

And here we are nearly nine years later. Still nothing. Hackers have had NINE YEARS to shut Apple up. Hasn't happened. Doesn't make one whit of difference why.

You can talk about security, about how easy it is to hack whichever platform, etc. It makes no damn difference when, yet again, Mac users will have another year of surfing the net unimpeded. And Apple will have a wonderful time, entirely justified, with promoting OS X as the safest platform. And they're right.

What is really interesting about all this rhetoric is the analogy about the other guys gets all the attention so they won't bother with us......
Do you lock the door to your house at night? Do you live in a safe neighborhood? Why locked your door? Have you ever been robbed? No? Then why lock you front door at night.
Do you drive a nice car? Do you have a car alarm?
Here are the most stolen cars in the US for 2009:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...t-Stolen-Cars/
So according to your analogy....unless you drive on of those cars you don't need a car alarm or even have to locked your doors.
It is just amazing to me that Mac users have no sense of security at all....
Again I am not trying to bash Apple or MS or say that one is better than the other. I use both Apple products and MS products and they both do a great job for what they were designed to do.

But to have the attitude that just because I have a Mac I won't get compromised is irresponsible.

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post #192 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

And if you did get a Trojan how would you know you have one????

The chances of the average Mac user getting any form of malware, on a vanilla, barebones OS X install with the firewall turned off - even when surfing questionable websites, is nearly zero. In fact, they're probably more likely to experience a kernel panic - which most users will never experience.

If YOU, with all the security measues you put in place, are unlikely to get a Trojan or any other malware, then imagine how much *less* likely I am to get one.

This "how do you know aren't infected" nonsense is hardly worth discussing.

I thought this was all about market share and how hackers "don't care" about us? Well if we have such miniscule market share and if no one cares to taget us, then why the hell even bother asking me whether I can be sure I don't have a Trojan, or how I am to know?? There's really nothing to infect us in the first place!

Will that change anytime soon? I don't know, it's been this way for nine years now. And Windows will remain the biggest target, and OS X's market share may increase somewhat but do you see it getting to 15%? Is that even the "magic number"? I mean, Windows sucks, but it has to suck *hard* for Apple to grab that much share. The Premium market is only so big. And really, it doesn't need to get a whole lot bigger for Apple to continue to do very well and for us to continue to get the experience we're getting. And how long will that take to get to 15%? 20%? I don't see it happening soon.

So when you ask me a ridiculous question like "how do you know you're not infected", keep in mind that it's like worrying about getting struck by lighting, *inside*, on a rainy day.
post #193 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I think there is some mis information concerning Macs and viruses. There are no known viruses in the wild currently targeting Macs. BUT a Trojan is not defined as a virus!!!!
Do a Google search for Trojans on Macs and see everything you come up with you will be surprised.
And if you did get a Trojan how would you know you have one????

A Trojan is not defined as a virus because it's not a virus. It's also not an example of someone hacking into a system. It's a type of social engineering exploit, which, by definition, bypasses system security with the help of the user. Unknown trojans are virtually impossible to defend against on any OS. There are basically a handful of Trojans on OS X, as you can see from the list here:

http://www.iantivirus.com/threats/

Many of the 113 threat listed at the above link are for "Classic", so aren't OS X issues, and the list includes variations of the same threats as separate entries, as well as "proof of concept" threats that don't exist in the wild. Now, go compare that list against a list of the thousands of threats for Windows -- you can no doubt find one at Symantec -- and tell me which system has a serious malware problem.

It's sort of odd that some would proudly assert the number of threats as evidence of the superiority of a platform: proclaiming that it's because of their marketshare and proves they are best. And, while it is partly because of marketshare that Windows has more threats, it's also partly because many malware authors specifically target Microsoft because of personal animus and partly because Windows has always simply presented many avenues of attack with a very large soft underbelly.

It's pretty clear that Windows has a serious malware problem, and it's also pretty clear that Mac OS X does not. Hacks, like jailbreaking, that require physical access and time aren't relevant to either system. or to the discussion, because there is no security on any system when the attacker has physical access. Rational people realize that Windows is a bag of hurt for this and so many other reasons, and that's the bottom line here: Vista/7 will continue to be attacked relentlessly and OS X will continue to have a tiny trickle of attacks against it.
post #194 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

iTunes and Qucktime have been exploited and Sarfari for Windows was hacked in 24 hours. Which shows Apple sucks at security.

So, if a couple of hacks shows that, "Apple sucks at security," what do the thousands upon thousands of Windows hacks show us?

Really, I don't think you're bringing your A-game to this discussion. Oh, wait, nonsense is your A-game.
post #195 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Thousands of hacks only means that Windows is attacked far more, it doesn't mean OSX is more secure. Which is a concept that isn't holding between you ears. I have dropped down to my C-game and you still can't grasp a simple concept. Not sure how much lower I need to go to get on your level.

Thousands of hacks and being attacked "far more" means that Windows is less secure, in the real world, and Windows 7 will continue to be a security nightmare for users and administrators. You can try to dance around that fact all you want, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I don't think you have any game at all. Your argument is that a handful of hacks means that OS X sucks, but that thousands of hacks on Windows only means thousands of hacks on Windows? I think what we can conclude based on that is that your ability to reason logically is nonexistent.
post #196 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Thousands of hacks and being attacked "far more" means that Windows is less secure, in the real world, and Windows 7 will continue to be a security nightmare for users and administrators. You can try to dance around that fact all you want, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I don't think you have any game at all. Your argument is that a handful of hacks means that OS X sucks, but that thousands of hacks on Windows only means thousands of hacks on Windows? I think what we can conclude based on that is that your ability to reason logically is nonexistent.

Another set of iPhone’s have been attacked, but this time it’s serious. THe attacker Rick Rolls the unsuspecting iPhones with a home screen picture of Rick Astley. OH THE HUMANITY.

Seriously, it’s the same exploit as before which requires the user to jailbreak their iPhone and then turn on SSH while not actually changing the default SSH password. These type of hacks do reinforce Apple’s stance that normal costumers should not be jail breaking their phones.I’m sure my parents don’t know what SSH means or what it’s used for, much less the potential dangers for keeping it on with the keys under the mat.

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/1...hones?from=rss
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post #197 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Thousands of hacks and being attacked "far more" means that Windows is less secure, in the real world, and Windows 7 will continue to be a security nightmare for users and administrators. You can try to dance around that fact all you want, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I don't think you have any game at all. Your argument is that a handful of hacks means that OS X sucks, but that thousands of hacks on Windows only means thousands of hacks on Windows? I think what we can conclude based on that is that your ability to reason logically is nonexistent.

Windows isn't simply exploited because it's the biggest target, but because historically, Windows had an absolutely dismal security track record, mostly before Vista. MS was colossally negligent when it came to security. For chrissakes, in 2001, well into the "internet age", XP shipped with 5 open ports.
post #198 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Another set of iPhone’s have been attacked, but this time it’s serious. THe attacker Rick Rolls the unsuspecting iPhones with a home screen picture of Rick Astley. OH THE HUMANITY.

Seriously, it’s the same exploit as before which requires the user to jailbreak their iPhone and then turn on SSH while not actually changing the default SSH password. These type of hacks do reinforce Apple’s stance that normal costumers should not be jail breaking their phones.I’m sure my parents don’t know what SSH means or what it’s used for, much less the potential dangers for keeping it on with the keys under the mat.

http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/1...hones?from=rss

I guess there's a reason Apple advises users against compromising their own hardware, which in and of itself is a pain to do anyway. Imagine taking the effort (and the average user needs detailed instructions) to deliberately make your device vulnerable.
post #199 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I guess there's a reason Apple advises users against compromising their own hardware, which in and of itself is a pain to do anyway. Imagine taking the effort (and the average user needs detailed instructions) to deliberately make your device vulnerable.

The details are pretty simple. You do search on public WiFi for devices with SHH open. When you find one you try the default password Alpine. This kind of script is childs play to make. Why the community hasnt rewritten the Cydia home page to warn abut this or have the OpenSSH installer use a nice little GUI to change the password for you before continuing. I fear tis silly hacks will not convert many people to think ahead.
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post #200 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The details are pretty simple. You do search on public WiFi for devices with SHH open. When you find one you try the default password Alpine. This kind of script is child’s play to make. Why the community hasn’t rewritten the Cydia home page to warn abut this or have the OpenSSH installer use a nice little GUI to change the password for you before continuing. I fear tis silly hacks will not convert many people to think ahead.

I wouldn't trust the haxie community with my toaster, never mind an expensive piece of tech. But that's just me. I've lived (and suffered) through the days of XP customization. That was plenty.
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