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Windows 7 tops Vista software sales, lags behind in hardware - Page 6

post #201 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I wouldn't trust the haxie community with my toaster, never mind an expensive piece of tech. But that's just me. I've lived (and suffered) through the days of XP customization. That was plenty.

Speaking of, beware of this toaster: http://www.nbcuniversalstore.com/det...r&esvtk_s=bgss
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #202 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Speaking of, beware of this toaster: http://www.nbcuniversalstore.com/det...r&esvtk_s=bgss

Now THAT is a collector's item.

A plate which burns the phrase ''Frak Off'' on a piece of toast
A plate which burns an image of a Cylon on a piece of toast
The red cylon eye lights up on the front of the toaster and moves across the helmet


Talk about features!
post #203 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

It couldn't happen to a nicer company and a more talented CEO.

Now that depends on who do you ask.

But since this is an Apple forum...
post #204 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

Of course Windows 7 is selling much faster the first few days. It was pent up demand. Not for the reason usually posted though. With Vista, people with XP were satisfied with what they had because it was finally working, sort of. Well Vista was a true dog.

Only at introduction, but was fixed time ago.


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So much that Microsoft started pushing 7 immediately. three years later here it is.

Well 3 years is sort of normal refresh time for Windows OS - only XP to Vista took uncharacteristic 5 years.

Non-NT line:

Win 3.0 - 1990
Win 3.1 - 1992
Win 95 - 1995
Win 98 - 1998
Win ME - 2000

NT Line:

Win NT3.1 - 1993
Win NT4 - 1996
Win 2000 - 2000
Win XP - 2002 (or was it 2001?)
Win Vista - 2006
Win 7 - 2009

If you add in between Win 3.11, 98SE, NT 3.5 and NT3.51... you'll realise that 3 years is actually longer than average period for Windows refresh.

How often does Apple release new versions of OSX, anyway? If 3 years or less - does that mean Apple also must rush out new versions..?

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Well over the last three years anyone who bought a new computer got Vista.

Retail... probably. But business shops through supply channels, and most will offer Vista Business machines preinstalled with XP.

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If they were not savvy enough to down grade it to XP the were stuck. Those are the people buying 7.

No. You don't have to be too savy to pop in XP recovery disk(s) and reimage your PC. Most PC with downgrade option that I have seen come with recovery image that already has all the drivers and apps that normally come with computer (bloat included, unfortunately), so all user has to do is to swap CD/DVD when prompted.

However, you do need to have Vista with downgrade rights, and that excludes Home Basic and Home Premium - most common among home users.

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Once these people who were trapped using a system they paid for but hated have up graded to the new Vista, it will taper off greatly.

This is another myth I haven't experienced in reality - and I do work in IT support role. I've yet to see any significant number of Vista users who hate it. Most haters among PC users don't use Vista at all, and hate it because they were told how awful it is by someone else (usually not using Vista as well). I'd say there is big fear of change (and new things to be learned) causing people to look for the reason not to change, and that is probably caused to a certain extend by prolonged period of XP stagnation. Vista broke the ice with some great causalities inflicted upon itself, and while so much people hate it for stirring the water, it also helped change state of consumers' mind - that change is inevitable... thus preparing ground for much easier penetration of 7.

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Those with XP machines would have to upgrade their computer and they are clearly not doing so, as the numbers show.

Why would they? If XP was running fast enough on their existing hardware, likely will 7 as well. Some will pop in new graphics, more RAM... but replace whole PC just because new OS is out, unlikely.
post #205 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I think you are missing some very important facts about Windows in an enterprise environment.
One first is Active Directory integration. Macs don't integrate well into Active Directory.
Also the ability to write Group Policy Objects in AD that control computer behavior.
At my work they are testing the 100 iPhones in our work environment but they are finding that the iPhone is so much more insecure that a BB. The companies data is not protected as well as on a BB with device encryption. Also we have tons of products and applications that bind and tie into our other MS solutions and Exchange is certainly one of them. Apple has no competing products for anything close to what MS does for enterprise companies.

Of course Macs don't integrate well into Active Directory. What would be the point in Microsoft making it easy for a competitor to play nice with their systems. I would like to think that Apple will not make the same kinds of mistakes that Novell made in the 1990s. Where I work, Active directory membership for a Mac is needed for convenient file access on a windows server, and nothing more. Are your Macs members of OD as well (golden triangle)?

Regarding your other (valid) points, I certainly hope that Apple will continue to play catch up in the enterprise server room. My guess is that Apple is spending most of its resources in maintaining domination in the portable device space (Iphone, Ipod, etc.). Enterprise desktops/servers and corresponding applications are not a high priority with Apple - for now, anyways.
post #206 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Only at introduction, but was fixed time ago.




Well 3 years is sort of normal refresh time for Windows OS - only XP to Vista took uncharacteristic 5 years.

Non-NT line:

Win 3.0 - 1990
Win 3.1 - 1992
Win 95 - 1995
Win 98 - 1998
Win ME - 2000

NT Line:

Win NT3.1 - 1993
Win NT4 - 1996
Win 2000 - 2000
Win XP - 2002 (or was it 2001?)
Win Vista - 2006
Win 7 - 2009

Nothing to do with your arguments, but Vista went retail on Jan 30, 2007, and XP went retail on Oct 25, 2001. Your second guess about XP was right.

Man, I feel old . . .
post #207 of 215
Nice to hear that MS is finally taking the effort to improve. This will motivate Apple to make better products. Consumers win!!! The adoption isn't as quick as you may think. But I'm pretty sure the corporate demand will pick up eventually. The company I work for has 1000+ computers working on XP. I know the IT department has used some people as testers for Windows 7 since the betas have been out. The upgrade will be coming eventually, but it takes time for IT to test and get all of our proprietary software working on it.
post #208 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertofwater View Post

Nice to hear that MS is finally taking the effort to improve. This will motivate Apple to make better products. Consumers win!!! The adoption isn't as quick as you may think. But I'm pretty sure the corporate demand will pick up eventually. The company I work for has 1000+ computers working on XP. I know the IT department has used some people as testers for Windows 7 since the betas have been out. The upgrade will be coming eventually, but it takes time for IT to test and get all of our proprietary software working on it.

I want to be able to disable bitlocker through Group policy setting. I also want to copy a user profile to default, so that all new users get the same desktop settings. Microsoft disabled this feature with Win7. I am responsible for many machines that have multiple users login. If I cannot make/copy a default profile, then 7 will become another Vista in my organization (ignored).

I would like to see how Apple responds to Windows 7 and its shortcomings in the enterprise.
post #209 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

You need to put it context.

The context is that he said "No, I didn't report it to Apple". Why is immaterial to the validity of your statement.

Quote:
Did you also read the part about OS X being easier to compromise than Windows? Did you just ignore that part?

Yes, and I explained why OS X is easier to compromise than Win7. Did you just ignore that part or simply not understand? Or perhaps both.
post #210 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

The context is that he said "No, I didn't report it to Apple". Why is immaterial to the validity of your statement.



Yes, and I explained why OS X is easier to compromise than Win7. Did you just ignore that part or simply not understand? Or perhaps both.

You like ti pick and choose and take things out of context to mean whatever you want.....

Charlie Miller reported the exploit to Apple in 2007....they ignored it. Then he used it to win Pwn 2 Own in 2008 & 2009 with the same exploit. He was ignored so from then on he was going to charge Corps for exploits. That is why he founded his own company so people would pay him for his hard work.

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

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post #211 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

You like ti pick and choose and take things out of context to mean whatever you want.....

Given I quoted the ENTIRE response there's no way to take it "out of context" given that the entire context was replicated.

Quote:
Charlie Miller reported the exploit to Apple in 2007....they ignored it.

You keep asserting he did that. It's not in the article you quoted that it was the same exploit.

Here's another quote from him:

"Yes, I mostly notice the defensiveness of the Mac fan boys. I've had them say I cheat, that its only in the open source components (which
it isn't this year), that I'm out to ruin Apple, etc. Some people 
can't face the reality when its staring them in the face. I probably 
haven't made a lot of friends with my new book "The Mac Hackers 
Handbook" co-authored with Dino Dai Zovi, the guy who won Pwn2Own three years ago."

Show me the link and THEN you have context. Until then its just blather.

Again, the major difference between Win7 and OSX which makes Win7 more secure is non-executable stack and full ALSR (Leopard doesn't randomize dyld which is the exploit). Miller himself says OSX is safer.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/busi...ner_charl.html

In any case, Win7 and IE8 fell as well in day 1 so neither platform is particularly secure out of the box and ALSR is no panacea. OSX would be a little more secure with better ALSR but probably not a whole lot safer.

I can lock down a NT, XP, OSX or Win7 box to a very high EAL level. It' not very useful as anything but a firewall at that point though because I strip out all the exploitable apps.

You also have to realize that his exploit broke into the user's files. He didn't gain root...which would require another vulnerability and exploit for privilege escalation. Which can be done in OSX but is probably a lot easier to get the user to enter the admin password instead.

So what have we learned from Miller and pwn 2 own?

Use Chrome and not Safari or IE8.
post #212 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Given Apple's achievements over the last decade and how they've changd the face of consumer tech, Apple "fanboism" is more than forgivable. Can you really blame Apple fans for their enthusiasm? It's completely natural to enjoy and get excited about Apple tech. What's not to like??

There is big difference between being enthusiastic for brand you support, and openly hating other brands.

I like my PC and don't care much for Apple's business model, but don't hate them for that. If some people want to give big money to be big-brothered by Steve Jobs - good for them.

Quote:
Macs

Good looks, average hardware, too many problems for the price.

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OS X

Seems to be nice product but a bit limited with small market share.

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iPods

Haven't play with one, can't say.

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iPhone.

Great device, average phone. Could be much more without Apple's Big-Brothering. I like mine, but can see myself moving to different platform in a year or two.

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And all the software to match.

And all the software not existing.

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All best in class.

What class is that..? Voroshilov 2009?

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And after 8 years of half-assing its core business MS finally manages to push out Win 7, while simultaneously destroying its Mobile presence (Apple did that for them, though) and making another half-hearted attempt at an MP3 player, a market that Apple chewed up and spat out about 2 years ago.

There you go, that is exactly what other guys are talking about. Whatever that is, sounds like pure pathological hatred.

Quote:
Why the hell should I have anything good to say about MS, aside from the fact that their existence makes Apple look that much better? If by some strange twist of fate we'd all be on Linux and Apple machines a few years from now, who would really miss them? What have they really contributed to the consumer sector aside from a loss-leading gaming console and a decent version of Windows after 8 years of garbage? More Office bloatware? An array of confusing Live services? Songsmith?

Why do you feel need to say anything about MS, not being their customer..? That being said, XP was not a bad product for it's time. Served well and still does. Vista's major problem was in OEMs and driver support, largely out of MS control. That is what you get when you control 90+% of market - it is much harder to keep Roman empire under control, than Linhenstein.

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I see nothing redeeming about MS' products. At all.

Exactly. Why do you keep dealing with them?

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MS is the ugly friend the cheerleader hangs out with. That's it.

And you are, like, a bit jealous not being in his shoes..?
post #213 of 215
I am not surprised at all about Win 7's success. The move from XP to Vista was nonexistent, because people were able to keep running XP. But that will not longer be true, Microsoft is dropping XP for real now. So, this is a forced upgrade for many (especially businesses next year).
post #214 of 215
Microsoft is supporting XP until 2014. That's "extended support," meaning security updates.
post #215 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

There is big difference between being enthusiastic for brand you support, and openly hating other brands.

I like my PC and don't care much for Apple's business model, but don't hate them for that. If some people want to give big money to be big-brothered by Steve Jobs - good for them.

Riiight. You're not a hater at all and that's a well balanced opinion.


Quote:
There you go, that is exactly what other guys are talking about. Whatever that is, sounds like pure pathological hatred.

And whining that Apple big brothers everyone isn't that same "hatred"?

Come on, Vista development was a mess and they had to dump it and start over with the Server 2K3 codebase. Which was the right move but they blew 4 years worth of development. MS was not executing very well for that period any more than Intel was vis a vis AMD with the P4.

Now both Intel and MS are executing well. Win7 is about as good as Core is.

Quote:
Vista's major problem was in OEMs and driver support, largely out of MS control.

Vista's major problem was that it was late, oversold and not polished when it was released. In the end it was MS's equivalent of the P4 debacle. On the plus side, despite what folks around here think, MS is starting to execute much better.
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