Doom game creator suggests Apple embarrassed about iPhone gaming - Page 4

don't market the iPod Touch that way. Or make a pro version with a camera, mic and magnetometer.

Your question infers all, while I think the answer to your question is included in his qualified statement: "...if he has time for games it's minimal", "the vast majority ... do not play a lot of games", "most of the really smart capable people I know in the computer field play a few games now and then", "for brief relaxation", "...so-called casual gaming is far more important and far more popular."

I don't know, but I do know there has been a number of multi-million selling games for the PSP, which means the ecosystem for it must be healthy as well

Carmack has changed the face of video gaming forever. He deserves the credit. Its not just being smart at coding. Its transforming his ideas into industry wide use. ID maybe known for games like DOOM and QUAKE, but its the fact that his company's 3d game engines are used by other developers and spawning 25 other games. He may be exceedingly smart at coding, but I don't think he should put down for just being that.

Just a few different tangents, thats all, LOL!

Gaming = more sales than music and video combined, Apple fails to see this, in fact, see's midrange products as threat to PRO line when in fact opposite.

GPS on other phones much more accurate, an HTC for example will tell you traffic trouble in :45 seconds, the iPhone won't do that, in fact, it's slow and sometimes you can miss your street. The GPS is weak.

Apple seeing it as a gaming device means no penetration to the business side of users of large enterprising solutions.


That's all.

Peace.
-

Gaming is different to music or video through. Gaming gives you the illusion that you're achieving something. Makes it more evil in a way.

For very young children, they are achieving something, if the game is educational. And for fully grown adults, they are in no danger of really thinking a game is worth anything. Except to the extent that you can't work all the time, so part of working is play, that is: part of enabling further work is taking a break.

But for a certain age - teenagers mostly - it's a very convincing kind of illusion that you're achieving something when you're not. In that sense gaming sucks.

Um.

Apple is a quick study.

They'll make the iPhone more business friendly. I think they've made great inroads so far with Mac Mini Server, Exchange in Snow Leopard, 'Push' etc.

100,000 apps. In many different categories. Must be easy to develop for. Naturally, game makers want a piece of the action (50 million units and counting...)

And Apple have reflected this app store success in their advertising for iPhone. And the gaming 'success' in their latest iPod 'funnest' Touch advertising.

So, Apple anti-gaming? Apple embarrassed or didn't foresee the iPhone being a great gaming success? Doesn't it matter?

It is. So, naturally they'll capitalise on that along with all the other genre of apps. And that is reflected on their website and on T.V.

Apple isn't going after the PC gaming tower market. Sorry, John. Not going to happen so let it go. (I may not entirely agree with Apple not producing a cheaper mid-tower but who cares? It doesn't look like it's going to happen. The iMac is 'good' enough to run most PC games at some reasonable setting.) Apple have their own 'mid-tower'. It's called the iPhone. And it's towering above the mobile phone/gadget opposition.

If I was Johnny boy, I'd quit my yappin' and make some games. Money's being made hand over fist at the app store. The old 'PC tower' model of Id Games being M$'s bitch (despite the faint McCarmack protestations about Direct X...) are fading real fast.

Mainstream, casual gaming is set to dwarf McCarmack and his 'Doom' 3D/FPShooter gaming niche.

So Apple don't see things his way. They don't have to. They heading towards selling 100 million iPhones/Touches within the next year or so. They've made their market without Carmack and havee 20 thousand plus games minus his carping.

Put up or shut up John. Kinda had enough of your faint praise is damning on teh Mac subject. Try handling some of the PC to Mac ports yourself...or help the profile of Mac gaming or actually make an iPhone game.

Quit yer flappin'.

Lemon Bon Bon

A clever post. Well done, Sir.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Thanks. I also agree with your point that casual gaming will ultimately dwarf the kind of hard core games that ID sells.

lol since when? wtf are you talking about

This post, plus "extreme" in your user name tell us all we need to know. Yeah, Apple needs to catch up to 15 years of PC gaming. Keep dreaming.

First, I don't know anyone who sees it as a toy. One can't be happy over its success and then be unhappy about its success a mobile gaming platform.

And business owners are of course people, and people are stupid and impressionable. Advertising dictates what the product is for. Show a few business men and suits on TV with iPhones in hand, adoption will start to occur. (How many blackberry commercials have you seen, that show exactly this??)

Show a funky, nickelodeon-style commercial with dogfighting and ball-in-a-cup games, and you'll sell tons of devices to people who want ball-in-a-cup games.

Its not complicated. Its called Advertising. Your advertising is designed with your Target Market in mind. It works on everyone, including business owners and the idiots who work in IT departments.

Business owners are not above or beyond the affects of advertising and cultural trends. Even smart people, who work in and design marketing material, are not immune to it.
People are dumb and easily manipulated. Enter advertising.

Hi guys,

My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?

Thanks

No.

You just turned everything I said, and all the care I took to couch it in specific terms, mention exceptions, etc. and just turned it into an absolute. I didn't say that.

If you want the short version I was saying something closer to:

- Games are not as crucial to the computer industry as those who are involved tend to think.
- Smart mature people tend to play less of them.

Everyone plays games of some sort. Part of the problem here is we aren't differentiating between Chess and Halo and are calling the whole thing "games."

The PSP Go has physical buttons that might feel easier to her. It's capable of impressive graphics, and has a large game selection. She'll like it a lot.

A device like the ipod touch might get frustrating to use if she's having trouble hanging on to things. Also, the ipod touch responds to any accidental taps. The way the screen reads a finger press means there's no sensitivity level. Just touched or not touched.

Agreed. Physical buttons is the way to go. And the larger they are, the better.

Being smart has nothing to do with it.

I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.

That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.

In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.

He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.

He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.

awww, poor wittle guy.

Carmack as had some bad experiences with Apple I think that my be clouding his judgment. He doesn't point out in bad decision Apple has made, just vage statements that they don't suport gaming, "deep down", what ever that's suppose to mean.

I have seen several articles which state that the Wii is helpful to Parkinson's patients, e.g. link

We all thought these people were "smart", too:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/21/p...hs-off-iphone/

http://www.chatsusa.com/f70/motorola...-iphone-19099/

http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/...s-retires-soon

I'm not including Ballmer because, well . . . you know.

Um, being smart at coding is exactly what is involved in making game engines that change the video game industry. What other skill did you imagine was involved, having a winning personality?

At any rate, I'm not putting him down for being a good programmer. I'm saying that being a good programmer doesn't make you insightful into human nature, or especially skilled at any number other areas of human endeavor.

I pointed it out because in modern geek culture "smart" is synonymous with "good programmer" and "really smart" is synonymous with "notoriously good programmer." There are all kinds of smart, and being a good programmer isn't even the better part of most of them.

So he's wrong then?

In 2008 the NPD Group stated only $910 million of the some $18.8 billion dollars spent on game software went to the entire PC market. That means some 95% went into consoles and if you look DirectX dominates in only one console: Xbox 360 which at best a dismal 30% of the console market. Worse the DirectX the Xbox 360 is stuck at DirectX 9 as Directx 10 and higher are effectively incompatible. Everybody else in the console market is on some variant of the OpenGL bandwagon. Given some 66% of the gaming market is OpenGL running on some non Windows OS what idiot game developer is going code for Windows on a PC if marketshare is the thing?

Well he's certainly a far cry from being right. I honestly don't know what to make of Carmack's statements. He's either clairvoyant, or he's just guessing, or someone told him something. Pick your poison.

Intel Macs run Windows. Good thing you wasted your money on another computer. And your friends are not too bright either.

All those iPod Touch commercials showcasing the games really gives the impression that Apple is upset over the strong sales of both the Touch and games. Carmack is just some disgruntled programmer spreading lies. Even before the iPhone and iPod Touch existed, people played games on their cellphones...as pathetic as they were. So of course people want to do the same with the Touch. Apple is hardly upset over the strong sales.

Well we're guessing too. He's been in more contact with Apple higher ups than most of us can attest to, despite his bias. All we can go on is Apple's own marketing of the iPod touch as the gaming machine and the iPhone as more of an all-encompassing device. "Embarrassed" was AI's own interpretation of his words, but the context of what he was saying seems to suggest Apple would prefer the iPhone to be perceived as a more "serious" device rather than a gaming machine. I wouldn't call that a 'far cry' off in the least.

Perhaps Apple view hardcore gaming like a previous poster - who just slated it.

I'll say that by thinking of the iPhone solely as a gaming machine you are ignoring much of what it has to offer.

Well ... (insert long, wordy response here).

This article is what we used to call "Prostitution of the Literature." That is taking a spin on 'what might have been stated' and not giving all the facts and letting the reader make up his own mind.

It would have been interesting to see the take on this 'interview' if this sound bite had been based on the CNBC article, i.e., iPhone Has Become Threat To Nintendo: 'Doom' Creator http://www.cnbc.com/id/33721096/site/14081545 rather than KOTAKU's Carmack: Working With Apple Is a Rollercoaster Ride http://kotaku.com/5397908/carmack-wo...yline=true&s=x

Actually, I would argue that there was an interview at all. Certainly, it does indicate such as was stated and the more comprehensive reporting evidenced in the CNBC article.

And this author's headline, to contend that "embarrassed" is the same as "not proud" is even more embarrassing. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the highest level of Apple view their success in gaming as an 'embarrassment of riches' and that has a different meaning all together.

As to conclude by saying, …whether Apple likes it or not… is really a prostitution of literature for which the author of this article should be most ashamed to admit he ever attended a course in journalism.

Superb post. Very well stated. I like that juxtaposition.

John Carmack is rapidly running out of his 15 minutes of fame in the gaming industry.

The more he runs his mouth the more rapidly he become irrelevant.

Bingo.

With OpenGL 3.2 emerging in all the latest GPGPU drivers and work steadily moving forward on the next revision the days of OpenGL being obsolete and losing to DirectX are over.

With OpenCL 1.1 nearly ready and IBM Power6 just releasing support for OpenCL 1.0 on their big iron it's quite clear that the marriage between these two technologies will help propel both as the standards to use across all platforms; and gaming will benefit considerably.

Having Apple driving OpenGL on the iPhone/iPod Touch Cocoa platforms only accelerates this reality.

Now you are being slightly belittling.

It takes more then being a great coder to make a company like ID software.

Gaming is a very fickle business so it makes sense Apple isn't going to actively market games. That being said the iPod Touch IS actively being marketed as a gaming device because that's what the ads are showing.

Apple wants the iPhone to be a killer phone with business potential because there is a large market for that that Apple wants to tap into. Having the iPhone as a gamin device is not their preferred option but they do realise that because it shares the same hardware as the Touch that games for the Touch will still work on the iPhone.

Apple isn't going to kill off the games on the iPhone but then they're also not going to be making efforts to promote the iPhone as a gaming device either.

Carmack doesn't understand the Mac platform because he's ditched it long ago so he has no claim to make the statements he's making. He needs to shut up and put his money where his mouth is and start developing Mac games as well as iPhone games.

in the end after >>
all is said and done
> after hundreds of post's at AI and hundreds more all over the known world
we are left with an empty plate >> void of any lasting info or even as we walk away
we all talked about nothing



why did not someone ask him ?
WHEN are you going to make more doom and doom/quake like games for the mac platforms


in the end games are all that ever mattered .

on monday i will surf the net and find this guy or someone in control and
i will ask him .



maybe he fears msft so much he froze


COD/HALO

So true!

We've been commenting on this guy's intuition, which was apparently based on nothing in particular, and in light of seeningly conflicting evidence. Ah well . . .

This guy holds so much power over apple gamers
he barely even gives  any good games while msft get fully stocked .

Yet Quadra with all the power of an apple with openCL and GCS like stuff he could really invent some ground breaking games for apple platforms



peace my friend

9

I'm not, actually, I just don't think being really good at writing the software that depicts shooting monsters in dark hallways makes you a genius or a great man.

And yeah, I would say that making a company like ID is pretty much mostly about being really good at writing software that depicts shooting monsters in dark hallways, better than the next guy.

What else where you figuring was involved? The literary depth of gameplay? The artistic depictions of hallways?