Doom game creator suggests Apple embarrassed about iPhone gaming - Page 4

I have a friend who has a Verizon HTC Pro Touch, tried to play Hulu videos on it, it didn't work.

To play Flash video Hulu says you need Flash 9, which no phone currently has. Hulu recommends you need 1Mbps downstream for smooth playback, which is on the high end for streaming video to a phone.

Video services like Hulu on the iPhone have little to do with Flash itself. The owners of Hulu want to charge for the service. They know Hulu on the iPhone would be a big hit. They want to figure out a successful way to charge for it before they release an iPhone app.

Netflix may not have permission to distribute its videos to phones. It may take them some time to get permission and encode thousands of video files small enough to play on phones.


I don't think there is any need to respond the rest of hiiamac's post. Most of it was FUD, most of it is untrue, and parts of it made no sense.



What does gaming, Exchange, and GPS have to do with each other?

yeah i don't think carmack is really right here. as i recall some of the first iphone keynotes dealing with the app store included game demos. they were showing how it only took 2 weeks to complete super monkey ball on the iphone.

along with the gaming ads for the ipod touch, i'm not sure what he's talking about. i think carmack is just trying to figure out why he's such an outsider to apple.

People over play the notion that most apps in the App Store is worthless. Yes I do agree most of the Apps are undesirable, but that has always been the case, it didn't just begin with the App Store.

I do agree though that Android appears to be well on its way. That's a good thing for Apple and for the smartphone market.

Pogue did a Twitter poll to see what a new term for these super-smartphones could be. Comparing them to smartphones of the past doesnt do them justice. The answer he chose was App Phone. I quite like it.It

has yet to defined to more specific criteria. I think an SDK for a compiled language (not just interpreted), at least 1000 apps in the App Store, and having HW that is at least ARM11 or better would be the 3 things I would choose off the top of my head.

It's logical for Apple to shy away from the 'game platform' designation. Microsoft's ad agency could have fun with that. Ditto for RIM, Nokia, Palm, Motorola and other smart phone competitors. They'd like nothing more than to see the iPhone categorized as 'just a game platform' in the public's perception.

I use an iPhone constantly and run a ton of apps. Games are missing entirely from my iPhone and my computers. I've long considered computer games to be a huge time waster and a prime source of additional disk space (via deletion).

I can understand someone enjoying a game like computerized chess or Mah Jong but action/arcade games just leave me shaking my head and rolling my eyes. Carmack has created nothing that I would find even mildly interesting.

I take issue with many thing you are saying. Games are a big deal in that they are not going away and that the are in fact growing in popularity with no sign of slowing down. Microsoft in fact if it knew what it was doing would have tied a ZUNE PLAYER much more tightly to the Xbox 360, created a music store, download games, download movies, applications, whatever. Or ties in the new windows consumer smartphone OS with the 360. There is a 30+ million audiance that could be tapped into there. Microsoft just does not have the vision it needs to truly pull this stuff off.

To say games are toys and are for kids yes you are correct. And that it why Steve Jobs and company have never fully supported game developers from the beginning. I am going back to 1984 and the intro of the Mac. Remember the Alice game that came out with the intro of the mac? It was to be marketed by Apple to show of how unique the mac was but it was pushed aside because it was thought to make the mac look like a game toy.

John Carmack is a smart individual. It would not surprise me if he said those comments just to ignite some interest and have Apple notice this. Carmack is an extrodinary game designer and programmer. Apple and Carmack have met in the past and he has stated publicly that Apple is not consistent with supporting game developers.

Apple markets the iphone/touch as a general purpose do everything device. Which to their credit it is. I am surprised to see so many people bust on Carmack as if he has no idea what he is talking about. Carmack is in some eyes a programming genius. I think he creates envy by doing what he does.

But apparently Apple does not think its a waste of time to market the iPod touch as a gaming device, even though they are serious people, and might be less enthusiastic about this perception. This would make sense. Why would a serious computer maker make a game machine? IBM?

Apple bending over backwards for developers is not common. In fact Apple has a reputation of not being upfront with developers in the first place. So to say that, is just not factual. It would be nice to see Apple work better with developers regarding the iphone/touch, make development a free market by putting ESRB's before purchasing, and stop pulling or disaproving apps and let the app store market sort itself out.

John Carmack is "smart" in the exceedingly narrow sense of "is good at coding." That doesn't mean he has any particular insight into what motivates his fellow human beings.

In fact, of what I've seen of the guy, I would guess he has full blown Asperger's Syndrome and is entirely clueless when as to what might "embarrass" Apple, Steve Jobs, or anyone.

So smart mature people don't play games?

Take care.......

Actually it wasn't that simple and requires a short history lesson.

IBM (International Business Machine) had a well deserved reputation in the business world going back to 1937 when they created the first computer (as we would understand it) using their punch card tabulator technology dating back to the 1880s. IBM's mainframes became nearly iconic during the 1950s and a business staple in the 1960s.

Person computers by contrast were kits like the Altair 8800 (1975) or little more than gaming consoles (Apple ii, Commodore 64, Tandy, etc) with (in their eyes) little business application. It wasn't until IBM itself got into the Personal Computer market in 1981 that businesses started taking the PC seriously as an alternative to mainframes. Then Microsoft came along with DOS and because it ran on IBM compatible machines became the defaco OS of choice.

Graphics and icons were so viewed as "gaming computers" that even Windows 1.0 (Nov 1985) went over like a lead balloon in the business community. The Laserwriter (1986) was the one thing that keep the Mac from being totally dismissed by businesses as WYSIWYG printing for DOS in those days was a joke. It wasn't Windows 3.1 (1992) that Microsoft came out with an OS that the business community ignore boot straight into DOS.

"they're not proud of the iPhone being a game machine, they wish it was something else."

Games. What a glorious waste of time. The more and cheaper the better. Pretty good fit for the App Store so far.

I don't blame Apple for being ashamed of that.

But even though that's a major result so far, the platform can certainly accommodate far more useful, practical, educational, etc. applications.

Perhaps the attraction for developers has been the market for games. And then there's the market for gambling. And then there's the market for drugs. . .

Something missing here?

don't market the iPod Touch that way. Or make a pro version with a camera, mic and magnetometer.

Your question infers all, while I think the answer to your question is included in his qualified statement: "...if he has time for games it's minimal", "the vast majority ... do not play a lot of games", "most of the really smart capable people I know in the computer field play a few games now and then", "for brief relaxation", "...so-called casual gaming is far more important and far more popular."

I don't know, but I do know there has been a number of multi-million selling games for the PSP, which means the ecosystem for it must be healthy as well

Carmack has changed the face of video gaming forever. He deserves the credit. Its not just being smart at coding. Its transforming his ideas into industry wide use. ID maybe known for games like DOOM and QUAKE, but its the fact that his company's 3d game engines are used by other developers and spawning 25 other games. He may be exceedingly smart at coding, but I don't think he should put down for just being that.

Just a few different tangents, thats all, LOL!

Gaming = more sales than music and video combined, Apple fails to see this, in fact, see's midrange products as threat to PRO line when in fact opposite.

GPS on other phones much more accurate, an HTC for example will tell you traffic trouble in :45 seconds, the iPhone won't do that, in fact, it's slow and sometimes you can miss your street. The GPS is weak.

Apple seeing it as a gaming device means no penetration to the business side of users of large enterprising solutions.


That's all.

Peace.
-

Gaming is different to music or video through. Gaming gives you the illusion that you're achieving something. Makes it more evil in a way.

For very young children, they are achieving something, if the game is educational. And for fully grown adults, they are in no danger of really thinking a game is worth anything. Except to the extent that you can't work all the time, so part of working is play, that is: part of enabling further work is taking a break.

But for a certain age - teenagers mostly - it's a very convincing kind of illusion that you're achieving something when you're not. In that sense gaming sucks.

Um.

Apple is a quick study.

They'll make the iPhone more business friendly. I think they've made great inroads so far with Mac Mini Server, Exchange in Snow Leopard, 'Push' etc.

100,000 apps. In many different categories. Must be easy to develop for. Naturally, game makers want a piece of the action (50 million units and counting...)

And Apple have reflected this app store success in their advertising for iPhone. And the gaming 'success' in their latest iPod 'funnest' Touch advertising.

So, Apple anti-gaming? Apple embarrassed or didn't foresee the iPhone being a great gaming success? Doesn't it matter?

It is. So, naturally they'll capitalise on that along with all the other genre of apps. And that is reflected on their website and on T.V.

Apple isn't going after the PC gaming tower market. Sorry, John. Not going to happen so let it go. (I may not entirely agree with Apple not producing a cheaper mid-tower but who cares? It doesn't look like it's going to happen. The iMac is 'good' enough to run most PC games at some reasonable setting.) Apple have their own 'mid-tower'. It's called the iPhone. And it's towering above the mobile phone/gadget opposition.

If I was Johnny boy, I'd quit my yappin' and make some games. Money's being made hand over fist at the app store. The old 'PC tower' model of Id Games being M$'s bitch (despite the faint McCarmack protestations about Direct X...) are fading real fast.

Mainstream, casual gaming is set to dwarf McCarmack and his 'Doom' 3D/FPShooter gaming niche.

So Apple don't see things his way. They don't have to. They heading towards selling 100 million iPhones/Touches within the next year or so. They've made their market without Carmack and havee 20 thousand plus games minus his carping.

Put up or shut up John. Kinda had enough of your faint praise is damning on teh Mac subject. Try handling some of the PC to Mac ports yourself...or help the profile of Mac gaming or actually make an iPhone game.

Quit yer flappin'.

Lemon Bon Bon

A clever post. Well done, Sir.

Lemon Bon Bon.

Thanks. I also agree with your point that casual gaming will ultimately dwarf the kind of hard core games that ID sells.

lol since when? wtf are you talking about

This post, plus "extreme" in your user name tell us all we need to know. Yeah, Apple needs to catch up to 15 years of PC gaming. Keep dreaming.

First, I don't know anyone who sees it as a toy. One can't be happy over its success and then be unhappy about its success a mobile gaming platform.

And business owners are of course people, and people are stupid and impressionable. Advertising dictates what the product is for. Show a few business men and suits on TV with iPhones in hand, adoption will start to occur. (How many blackberry commercials have you seen, that show exactly this??)

Show a funky, nickelodeon-style commercial with dogfighting and ball-in-a-cup games, and you'll sell tons of devices to people who want ball-in-a-cup games.

Its not complicated. Its called Advertising. Your advertising is designed with your Target Market in mind. It works on everyone, including business owners and the idiots who work in IT departments.

Business owners are not above or beyond the affects of advertising and cultural trends. Even smart people, who work in and design marketing material, are not immune to it.
People are dumb and easily manipulated. Enter advertising.

Hi guys,

My wife, who suffers from Parkinson's Disease and other ailments, is unfortunately now confined to a nursing home. She has her Macbook at the home and enjoys playing games on it. But I'm thinking that a dedicated device would give her more enjoyment; unfortunately I know next to nothing about gaming. So what would you recommend for a somewhat shaky (remember, she has Parkinson's Disease) 58 year old woman?

Thanks

No.

You just turned everything I said, and all the care I took to couch it in specific terms, mention exceptions, etc. and just turned it into an absolute. I didn't say that.

If you want the short version I was saying something closer to:

- Games are not as crucial to the computer industry as those who are involved tend to think.
- Smart mature people tend to play less of them.

Everyone plays games of some sort. Part of the problem here is we aren't differentiating between Chess and Halo and are calling the whole thing "games."

The PSP Go has physical buttons that might feel easier to her. It's capable of impressive graphics, and has a large game selection. She'll like it a lot.

A device like the ipod touch might get frustrating to use if she's having trouble hanging on to things. Also, the ipod touch responds to any accidental taps. The way the screen reads a finger press means there's no sensitivity level. Just touched or not touched.

Agreed. Physical buttons is the way to go. And the larger they are, the better.

Being smart has nothing to do with it.

I'd bet money that half of the people commenting on this thread are as smart as he is. Judging from the number of times I've had my arguments destroyed by others on this forum, I'd say you were talking to several car-carying geniuses on every post.

That doesn't mean they are right. It also doesn't mean that Carmack is right either. Smart people are just people after all and have prejudices biases and differing point of view. The classic example of a "genius" turning into an idiot is when they comment on something outside their field of expertise assuming their brain will save them.

In this particular case, the very first thing that stood out to me was the language Carmac is using. He is basically projecting. He is telling us the he *knows* what Apple executives are thinking in their "heart of hearts." This is classic b*llshit, not a factual argument. He has no argument. This is John Carmac telling us what he "feels" is going on in the minds of people he has already told us he doesn't like very much. He has no facts to support his contention and he's a known egotist.

He could be as smart as Einstein and still be wrong about something like this because he's really just telling us how he feels today. It's like listening to your best friend tell you how much she hates her dad for the hundredth time or something. Essentially meaningless.

He just wants someone to rub his tummy and give him a cookie.

awww, poor wittle guy.

Carmack as had some bad experiences with Apple I think that my be clouding his judgment. He doesn't point out in bad decision Apple has made, just vage statements that they don't suport gaming, "deep down", what ever that's suppose to mean.

I have seen several articles which state that the Wii is helpful to Parkinson's patients, e.g. link

We all thought these people were "smart", too:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/21/p...hs-off-iphone/

http://www.chatsusa.com/f70/motorola...-iphone-19099/

http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/...s-retires-soon

I'm not including Ballmer because, well . . . you know.

Um, being smart at coding is exactly what is involved in making game engines that change the video game industry. What other skill did you imagine was involved, having a winning personality?

At any rate, I'm not putting him down for being a good programmer. I'm saying that being a good programmer doesn't make you insightful into human nature, or especially skilled at any number other areas of human endeavor.

I pointed it out because in modern geek culture "smart" is synonymous with "good programmer" and "really smart" is synonymous with "notoriously good programmer." There are all kinds of smart, and being a good programmer isn't even the better part of most of them.

So he's wrong then?

In 2008 the NPD Group stated only $910 million of the some $18.8 billion dollars spent on game software went to the entire PC market. That means some 95% went into consoles and if you look DirectX dominates in only one console: Xbox 360 which at best a dismal 30% of the console market. Worse the DirectX the Xbox 360 is stuck at DirectX 9 as Directx 10 and higher are effectively incompatible. Everybody else in the console market is on some variant of the OpenGL bandwagon. Given some 66% of the gaming market is OpenGL running on some non Windows OS what idiot game developer is going code for Windows on a PC if marketshare is the thing?

Well he's certainly a far cry from being right. I honestly don't know what to make of Carmack's statements. He's either clairvoyant, or he's just guessing, or someone told him something. Pick your poison.

Intel Macs run Windows. Good thing you wasted your money on another computer. And your friends are not too bright either.

All those iPod Touch commercials showcasing the games really gives the impression that Apple is upset over the strong sales of both the Touch and games. Carmack is just some disgruntled programmer spreading lies. Even before the iPhone and iPod Touch existed, people played games on their cellphones...as pathetic as they were. So of course people want to do the same with the Touch. Apple is hardly upset over the strong sales.

Well we're guessing too. He's been in more contact with Apple higher ups than most of us can attest to, despite his bias. All we can go on is Apple's own marketing of the iPod touch as the gaming machine and the iPhone as more of an all-encompassing device. "Embarrassed" was AI's own interpretation of his words, but the context of what he was saying seems to suggest Apple would prefer the iPhone to be perceived as a more "serious" device rather than a gaming machine. I wouldn't call that a 'far cry' off in the least.

Perhaps Apple view hardcore gaming like a previous poster - who just slated it.

I'll say that by thinking of the iPhone solely as a gaming machine you are ignoring much of what it has to offer.

Well ... (insert long, wordy response here).