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Verizon continues assault on AT&T with series of holiday ads - Page 4

post #121 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post

Yay, more free advertising for AT&T.

What school did Verizon's marketing people graduate from? Clown School? Everybody knows that you do *not* mention your competition's name in your ads...

What's Apple's excuse? And what about AT&T are Verizon really advertising, it's pretty unfavourable from where I'm sitting. It's a pretty good technique when done right. And people will remember not only AT&T, but the map since visual cues are recalled pretty easily.

Although I have a hard time believing AT&T's network is that bad, why don't people just buy the touch + Verizon phone instead?

Here (in the UK) there's likely to be similar competition among the iPhone carriers (over coverage) as none of them are willing to undercut the other! \
post #122 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/10...-satisfaction/

Not for long.

Apple, with a single device, on ONE carrier, in only two years, enjoying skyrocketing demand unabated, with carriers desperate for the device, is already at 30%, with RIM in decline.

The iPhone with 30% market share is only available (officially) on one network, AT&T. Whereas RIM is on all the networks and still only at 40%.

The writing is on the wall.

One size fits all... who would have thought!
post #123 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Did the iPhone become the #1 phone on the market yet? Or is that still the Blackberry?

It's not BlackBerry either. Nokia is still number one "phone" manufacturer. Blackberry does have bigger market share than Apple's iPhone. However, it is impressive that the "toy" iPhone with its one carrier model (and presumably lousy one in the US) is gaining very fast on the BB with its wide variety of models and carriers. For me that says something.
post #124 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I agree with your statement the only problem I have is the fact no one mentions Apple does the same thing with Microsoft.

Good point. A tiny competitor to a giant monopoly might break the general rule. But Verizon and AT&T are roughly the same size and same market share, AT&T might be slightly larger but not by much. I think the traditional rules apply there -- i.e., do *not* do anything that gives your competitor name recognition if it is at all avoidable. Which it is, here, because Verizon's message -- 3G in More Places -- doesn't require naming an actual competitor.
post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Verizon not only has the Blackberry but also the Droid.

It's no iPhone. Which is the problem.
post #126 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I agree with your statement the only problem I have is the fact no one mentions Apple does the same thing with Microsoft. They tries to use some stupid defense that its different when Apple does it. If what you are saying is true and I believe it is then Apple has given MS more free marketing then anyone.

Who else can Apple compete against in the OS market? Linux?! Windows IS the only other player in that market. How do you market you product if your only source of customers are coming from one and only one competitor (Microsoft)?!
post #127 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's no iPhone. Which is the problem.

That's the problem when you expect everything to be like the iPhone. Different does not mean worse, and I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if another company released something that copied the iPhone almost exactly. You want competition, but you also want competition to be identical to the iPhone, and then complain when it is!
post #128 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Maybe we shouldn't try to predict the future now that Verizon not only has the Blackberry but also the Droid. Unless Verizon and Apple can play nice the iPhone is going to have a very hard time taking over the Blackberry. And we don't even know yet how well the Droid is going to do.

Why is it that, right after you tell people they shouldn't predict the future, you always go on and predict the future?
post #129 of 144
Why did Verizon reject Apple's offer of the iPhone in the first place?
post #130 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

You market your product by pointing out its benefits and feature. You can do that without trying to bash another company. In reality Apple and Microsoft don't even compete, Apple is really a hardware company and Microsoft a software company.

benefits and features compared to what?! You can't market an OS like a car. Users want an operating system that is secure, fast, reliable, and easy to use. The average user won't get it if the TV ads said things like (got those from Apple's website):

"Snow Leopard is built on a rock-solid UNIX foundation and designed to be simple and intuitive, it’s what makes the Mac innovative, highly secure, compatible, and easy to use. "

"Mac OS X offers a multilayered system of defenses against viruses and other malicious applications, or malware."

This will send the average user running away because they will not understand it. The average user targeted in these ads wants to know what Mac OS X offers compared to what I am using now (Windows). When someone asks me what Mac OS X offers I can't explain the features to him/her without referencing to Windows.

Quote:
Maybe this was a battle to try and fight 20 years ago but it doesn't really apply today. The lines are clearly drawn by now with changes in market share shifting a few percent. Even Steve Jobs admitted MS won the PC battle a long time ago.

Microsoft ads are also a waist because users like myself use Microsoft because we have too for business or you like to have more choices then what Apple has to offer.

I also think that MS ads are waste. I think that MS was pressured from the large PC manufacturers to do something. MS should have marketed Windows instead of HP. The post W7 release ads are much better.
post #131 of 144
.. .. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

you market your product by pointing out its benefits and feature.

that is merely one tactic. You can also market a product without saying anything at all. There are numerous ways to market a product. Sometimes the entire message is completely subliminal, other times it's direct. Even to someone with no marketing background whatsoever, this should be obvious.

you can do that without trying to bash another company.

yes, you can. You can also bash another company fairly effectively. Apple's been doing it since 2006. In fact that whole 1984 commercial was a direct jab at ibm, and it was masterful.

in reality apple and microsoft don't even compete, apple is really a hardware company and microsoft a software company.

tell that to ballmer. All he has is apple on the mind.

maybe this was a battle to try and fight 20 years ago but it doesn't really apply today. The lines are clearly drawn by now with changes in market share shifting a few percent. Even steve jobs admitted ms won the pc battle a long time ago.

and singlehandedly created the premium end and now rules it, and is profiting like crazy. In a recession. Good thing ms won the pc battle. Despite winning they've been in a steady downward slide for years while apple has done nothing but go from strength to strength, much to the humiliation of its much larger rival.

microsoft ads are also a waist because users like myself use microsoft because we have too for business or you like to have more choices then what apple has to offer.

except that most users aren't users like yourself. Let's stop all ads because you claim they're a waste. Try to think a little bit beyond the few feet that constitute your personal space.
post #132 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by ced317 View Post

Why did Verizon reject Apple's offer of the iPhone in the first place?

Let me take care of that for you before you get other, incorrect answers.

The answer is, no one here knows. All we know is that the two companies could not agree on a way to get the iPhone onto Verizon's network.
post #133 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

In that last post how was I predicting the future?

Like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Unless Verizon and Apple can play nice the iPhone is going to have a very hard time taking over the Blackberry.
post #134 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Let me take care of that for you before you get other, incorrect answers.

The answer is, no one here knows. All we know is that the two companies could not agree on a way to get the iPhone onto Verizon's network.

But you of course know otherwise. Give it up dude. Verizon had more muscle than AT&T ever had 3 years ago. They simply did not want it
post #135 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by badtux View Post

Yay, more free advertising for AT&T.

What school did Verizon's marketing people graduate from? Clown School? Everybody knows that you do *not* mention your competition's name in your ads. You might *imply* who you're talking about, you might say "here's our competition's coverage map" without saying your competition's name, but never mention your competitor's name, because that just improves his name recognition. When people decide to actually go buy cellular service they don't do it immediately after an ad, they do it some time later, and by that time they will have forgotten who is who and often tend to go to the carrier with the best name recognition. "AT&T? Sounds familiar, lots of ads mentioning their name, sounds good to me."

I mean, I'm not a marketing guru, but this is what was taught to me by people who *are* marketing gurus, which makes me wonder about the sanity of the people at Verizon. And BTW, you want the fastest 3G network? Sprint. By a landslide. I've used'em all, and Sprint's 3G network wins hands-down, coverage isn't great but where there *is* coverage it runs at speeds that Verizon and AT&T can only dream about.


there once was an advert from apple, it sorta mentioned its competition. They must have graduated from clown school
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post #136 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

That pretty weak.

It also answered your question exactly.

So far, it seems to have been pretty damn easy for iPhone to make gains on RIM (there were even a few quarters when the iPhone outsold them), seeing as it's narrowed the gap substantially with a single device, on one carrier, and on a carrier that is apparently hated almost universally, while RIM is everywhere with numerous models.
post #137 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

That pretty weak.

Well, yes, it is pretty weak, that's why I was wondering why you do it.
post #138 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

But you of course know otherwise. Give it up dude. Verizon had more muscle than AT&T ever had 3 years ago. They simply did not want it

I'm not saying I know otherwise. I'm not stupid enough to say something that I know I can't prove, and that everyone knows can't be proven. All I said was that the two companies couldn't come to an agreement. Anyone who claims to know more is either committing some kind of NDA violation or is lying. I know hearing it that way upsets you, because we both know you don't have any inside information, which puts you on the other side of that. But I say, embrace it - it wouldn't be anything new for you! Someone has to be the liar on the board, and you've embraced that role with gusto generally. So what's the problem?
post #139 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Verizon neglects to tell the full story:
  1. AT&Ts 3G is faster
  2. Where AT&T does not have 3G, their EDGE (2.75G) covers. EDGE is 100% fully equiveilent to 3G except it is slower.
  3. Verizon's CDMA 3G is only compatable here in the US. Good luck going outside the US.
  4. Verizon nickel and dimes....and now they are charging a $350 Termination Fee. Better be sure that you like that Droid.
  5. Verizon's CDMA 3G does not support concurrent voice and data access. AT&Ts does.

However, AT&T better get on the move. I know that they are rolling out even faster 3G service (7.2MB and then 14MB). This will far exceed's Verizon's speed (< 3MB).

Problem is that none of it matters when the words no & service dominate your screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

I think that you are reading the ads wrong. These ads are in no way an attack on Apple or the iPhone -- they are direct assault on AT&T.

The commercials are basically saying that the iPhone is a great phone hampered by a sh*tty network. They then in a nutshell say, "AT&T's network is such a clusterf*** for data, so why not come on over to our better network and try out some of our phones."

Remember, for some this is not a company that makes consumer electronics, its a religion. You can't win a rational argument when Apple and its partners are considered above criticism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ced317 View Post

Why did Verizon reject Apple's offer of the iPhone in the first place?

Apple's demands were pretty steep and the iPhone as released was a pretty limited device. Remember, development was something pushed upon Apple by the community. They didn't have a clue they were looking at the next big thing in computing when they released i.
post #140 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Then I guess we should throw out all of the market research that contradicts your single experience, right? Did you consider that you didn't even eliminate the phone as the cause of the problems?

Duh

Well yeah, I did try to eliminate the phone as the cause of the problem.

My point is that most people will likely NOT do this. If the Droid's reception is poor, for instance, the 'Power of the Network' will be quite a moot point.

My main point is that there are a plethora of variables that determine one's sense of satisfaction with a carrier. With my iPhone on AT&T, I rarely have zero bars and I only intermittently get dropped calls. Compared to my experience with that phone on Verizon, I'm much happier.
post #141 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by nondual View Post

Well yeah, I did try to eliminate the phone as the cause of the problem.

My point is that most people will likely NOT do this. If the Droid's reception is poor, for instance, the 'Power of the Network' will be quite a moot point.

My main point is that there are a plethora of variables that determine one's sense of satisfaction with a carrier. With my iPhone on AT&T, I rarely have zero bars and I only intermittently get dropped calls. Compared to my experience with that phone on Verizon, I'm much happier.

I'm not denying your experience. But the aggregation of the whole market's individual experiences has led to a pretty clear GENERAL advantage for Verizon. There are places where that is not true, but overall, it is, and one look at the coverage map confirms the obvious.

I've had good enough experience with ATT to stick with them for a long time, though I was close to switching before the iPhone. Now, I plan to switch to Verizon the day I can get a Verizon iPhone. I'm just tired of the dropped calls.
post #142 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andyinc91 View Post

i dont see why verizon has to keep using the iPhone in their anti-at&t commercials. if they wanna get on Apple's good side in order to get the iPhone next year, why dont they use some of at&t's other smart phones so that they can still show at&t having a lesser network, but not involving the iPhone in that negativity

They use the iPhone because it gives them the most bang for the [ad] buck. The iPhone is on everybody's mind and well recognized. They don't care what Apple thinks. Remember this - the Droid - is their new and really first iPhone rival (they hope). They do everything necessary NOT to lose a single percentage point to ATT. They know that they are called the company with the dorkiest phones. The Droid might just help them to get out of that hole - I call them almost desperate because they left WiFi intact. It's their killer phone.... but it's just not an iPhone killer.

The screen is - well - fantastic. That resolution for a browser - wow. The case though - is a different story: The only futuristic sign on the Droid is the TV ad and the Red Eye startup screen. The case reminded me of a small version of a 1992 Sharp Wizard when you slide out the keyboard.

Here is a little anecdote: While I was checking the Droid last Saturday I found their "Flashlight" app. I had pressed the browser icon and the screen turned white. After 30 seconds I finally found their Home button and got "back" from a stuck browser to a quite cluttered screen.
Here is the kicker one: By now I had two more guys watching over my shoulder and one said "where's the phone button?" We were all laughing after 20 unsuccessful seconds - we couldn't and called the really motivated VZ clerk over. He somehow found it hidden away by using The Search app.
BTW: The price out the door was $350 with $100 mail-in.
I like the Droid's specs - keeps Apple on its toes. Can't wait for a 480 by 800 screen on iPhone 4.0.
post #143 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/10...-satisfaction/

Not for long.

Apple, with a single device, on ONE carrier, in only two years, enjoying skyrocketing demand unabated, with carriers desperate for the device, is already at 30%, with RIM in decline.

The iPhone with 30% market share is only available (officially) on one network, AT&T. Whereas RIM is on all the networks and still only at 40%.

The writing is on the wall.

Can I ask you something seriously? Answer me truthfully.

What happens if someone steals someone else's iphone?
post #144 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Can I ask you something seriously? Answer me truthfully.

What happens if someone steals someone else's iphone?

What are you implying?
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