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Apple's Mini DisplayPort officially adopted by VESA - Page 4

post #121 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Right- I'm MAD for HDMI!!!!!

help me - I'm being attacked in the Apple MiniDP matrix!!!

You're the one that entered it and started throwing punches. Okay, so the punches were like those of a 6 year old girl, but still, the difference is splitting hairs; a punch is a punch. So you got attacked for it.


HDMI may be more ubiquitous, but it didn't get that way over night. It took time. Hanging on to something for that reason alone is fine if you're not interested in advancing something forward. Technology is constantly moving forward and that is all that's happening here. If you were around before HDMI (I can't imagine you were), this same thing happened and it will happen again sometime in the future.

Your arguing only shows that either you're not really serious and are just playing with everyone, or you're just a closed minded, naive person that doesn't like change.
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post #122 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

FireWire wasn't "kicked to the curb" it is mostly used in higher-end or professional applications.

Only the FW400 port interface was kicked to the curb, but the sky is falling! chicken heads are screaming that FireWire is dead.
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post #123 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

I think I'll just give it the same timeframe as HDMI before I declare a "winner" .... that's fair, don't you think? .... but then, I don't have an "axe to grind", ... do you?

Sometimes I wish people here would display the same logic about new phones. Declaring the iphone the "winner" when a competitor has just emerged uses the same logic as declaring HDMI a winner when DP is getting started..
post #124 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Sorry, am I reading this wrong? It most certainly has everything to do with the cable. The cable design spec of HDMI has bandwidth limitations before you get signal loss. There are only so many pulses you can send before you get signal loss.

DisplayPort design allows for more bandwidth - i.e. more pusles. It's that simple.

Nope, not reading me wrong. If I put an HDMI to DVI adapter on either end of an HDMI cable, and connected it to my video card on my computer, it most certainly is capable of displaying my video properly at resolutions higher than 1920x1200.

Adding audio to it might mess things up a bit though. I've never tried. I know some of the new video cards have audio input slots for the hdmi cable, I wonder how it effect's the card's max resolution.

Anyways, I was specifically speaking to the video part of it. An HDMI cable is just a simplified DVI cable.
post #125 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Because they can't shove 7.1 channels into DP like HDMI (the more advance option for audio).

To me, it's a feature that audio and video are in separate cables. That way I get to pick and choose which device I prefer to use for audio and video separately. Rather than being forced in some scenarios to connect to a device which can separate the two streams for me.

Modular design is a plus in my books.
 
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post #126 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And how exactly is that cutting edge as it been around for ten years. Not to mention the amount of cameras that sync wirelessly now.

Nothing stays "cutting edge " forever ... trying to change tread topic are we? ... running out of "ammo" already?
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post #127 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No- you're the one misinformed. Is it 7.1?

What?
post #128 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Mostly this, mostly that. The fact is that Dell has dozens of models that come with DP as standard, or can be upgraded to it. Most of these machines are pretty cheap by Apple standards.

Its a couple business models and you're trying to twist it to to seem like every product they make have displayport.
post #129 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

its also lower resolution

and DRM infested.
post #130 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

To me, it's a feature that audio and video are in separate cables. That way I get to pick and choose which device I prefer to use for audio and video separately. Rather than being forced in some scenarios to connect to a device which can separate the two streams for me.

Modular design is a plus in my books.

Pre-amps and receivers allow you to output the digital audio separate from the video. They even allow separation of the channels into individual analog outputs to be sent to the amplifier.

Unless you're trying to with with resolutions higher than 1900x1200 while simultaneously trying to process audio from the same cable, there's no real logical reason to like modular over hdmi.

If you've got a display capable of higher than 1920x1200, then separating the video with DVI and an Optical cable is the best solution.
post #131 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It was obvious what I meant.
What's not obvious is how you think Display Port is currently used more than HDMI????????

It's not obvious. You can't make a statement, and then say that it's obvious you didn't mean exactly what you said.

And I NEVER said, nor hinted, that DP was used MORE than HDMI. Its a newer standard, and will take some time. I said that several times, but you won't respond to that.
post #132 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Sometimes I wish people here would display the same logic about new phones. Declaring the iphone the "winner" when a competitor has just emerged uses the same logic as declaring HDMI a winner when DP is getting started..

Its been around a couple years now. If apple wasn't using it, none of you would be giving displayport a second thought. However, since Apple's using it can't be a failure.
post #133 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It is and it isn't- that's the problem you see. Currently it's not used at all on some devices. And secondly nowhere does it ssupport 7.1.

Like many people really care about 7.1. How about 10.1. that exists as well.
post #134 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

... I still think Apple should have also included a HDMI port on their computers, it not all then at least a few.

They did include it on the one computer where it actually makes sense. The AppleTV has it.

It's always nice to have all the ports you can on everything, but IMO they have done it exactly right so far.
post #135 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Right- I'm MAD for HDMI!!!!!

We can all agree with part of that statement.
post #136 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Its a couple business models and you're trying to twist it to to seem like every product they make have displayport.

It's quite a few. And it's not only Dell. Almost any graphics card has it, or will be having it. So any computer that comes with a graphics card will have it by default.

Lot's of stuff has this:

http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
post #137 of 255
I think it's a crying shame that all the manufacturers are dumping composite video. I mean really. The cables are cheap - you can't get more simple than a single RCA jack, and Radio Shack keeps them in stock! Just about every single TV ever made supports it, or you can get a cheap RF modulator at the Shack, too. Best of all, it's easy to route the audio to any radio or boom box with mono or stereo inputs, since it's on separate connectors!

Who needs better than 480i? My mom told me if I'm sitting so close I can see the scan lines I'll go blind. I can read the text in Zork just fine! The color rendering is pretty good. It even backwards-compatible with black-and-white displays! If its good enough for NTSC (Now that's a standard with staying power!), it's good enough for me.

Commodore totally has it right - when people catch on they are going to DOMINATE the market. There is nothing like playing Dig Dug on the big 27" living room TV!

Oh, wait. What decade is it again?

Come on people, it's just a connector!
post #138 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

and DRM infested.

Unfortunately, you won't escape that with DisplayPort. They wouldn't release a standard these days that didn't offer it as an option, although it is at least licensed separately.

"DRM protection

DisplayPort includes optional DPCP (DisplayPort Content Protection) copy-protection from Philips, which uses 128-bit AES encryption, with modern cryptography ciphers. It also features full authentication and session key establishment (each encryption session is independent). There is an independent revocation system. This portion of the standard is licensed separately. It also adds support for verifying the proximity of the receiver and transmitter, a technique intended to ensure users are not bypassing content protection system to send data out to distant, unauthorized users.
Version 1.1 added support for HDCP."
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post #139 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Its been around a couple years now. If apple wasn't using it, none of you would be giving displayport a second thought. However, since Apple's using it can't be a failure.

Look, be realistic. All standards take time. What about FW 3200 that some people are talking about? What about USB 3, what about SATA 6 Gbs? What about Light Peak?

A year from now, you will be saying that they've been around for almost two years, because we've known about them for a year now. But they will have really been out for just a few months at best.

Two years from now, they still will be new.

That's the way it works.

Why is it that even now, some new devices are still using HDMI 1.2?

When will 1.4 be on almost all new devices? About the end of 2011.
post #140 of 255
Did you even read the article?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I meant mini- so then who does?
post #141 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's not correct. Why don't you go and read up on this stuff before you post? You, and a few others just post what you THINK is correct much of the time. If you had actual information, much of the arguments would never happen.


better still why not post only, say, once every ten times rather than 'squeaking' at every opportunity in a typically inane and inflammatory manner. perhaps reading up may make this happen... good idea Melgross (not having a go at you here by the way....)

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post #142 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

??? Where did you get that quote from?

From stuff that you say all the time - it's just a precis!
post #143 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Look, be realistic. All standards take time. What about FW 3200 that some people are talking about? What about USB 3, what about SATA 6 Gbs? What about Light Peak?

A year from now, you will be saying that they've been around for almost two years, because we've known about them for a year now. But they will have really been out for just a few months at best.

Two years from now, they still will be new.

That's the way it works.

Why is it that even now, some new devices are still using HDMI 1.2?

When will 1.4 be on almost all new devices? About the end of 2011.

This trend seems to be growing. People hear about a new technology and they immediately expect it in the new release despite it not even speced out. We knew about the mDP port interface being officially added to DP a year ago and its just gone through today.
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post #144 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This trend seems to be growing. People hear about a new technology and they immediately expect it in the new release despite it not even speced out. We knew about the mDP port interface being officially added to DP a year ago and it’s just gone through today.

It's kind of funny, but standards haven't been keeping up with consumer demand (Pre-N anyone?).

They used to joke that people couldn't keep up with technology. I think it's bureaucracy that could never keep up with Technology, or People for that matter

I can see pluses and minuses to that..too many changes to fast and you end up with a mess. Move too slow, and you become redundant.
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post #145 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's quite a few. And it's not only Dell.

By quite a few, you mean select lattitude laptops, optiplex desktops, precision workstations, and professional series displays. Not all of them and absolutely nothing on the consumer side.

Quote:
Almost any graphics card has it, or will be having it. So any computer that comes with a graphics card will have it by default.

Lot's of stuff has this:

http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Not anything remotely new. Most chipsets produced in the last two years have displayport as do many third party video cards. End of the day, hasn't enticed anyone to use ship it on a consumer computer or display.
post #146 of 255
Time is needed to properly spec the technology. Once its set in stone, that's what it is forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

It's kind of funny, but standards haven't been keeping up with consumer demand (Pre-N anyone?).
post #147 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Time is needed to properly spec the technology. Once its set in stone, that's what it is forever.

You have to admit, they waffled far more than was necessary on that technology. When mainstream manufacturer's are producing it before it's a ratified draft, you know you're dragging your feet a wee bit too much.
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post #148 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This trend seems to be growing. People hear about a new technology and they immediately expect it in the new release despite it not even speced out. We knew about the mDP port interface being officially added to DP a year ago and its just gone through today.

It's also the chicken and the egg. We won't see new technologies on many computers because there aren't any peripherals yet. We won't see the peripherals because they aren't on the computer.

A few companies take tentative steps, and we get stuff slowly rolling out. Then, at some point, almost everything new has it.

Look at how long it took for USB 1 to become popular.
post #149 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

By quite a few, you mean select lattitude laptops, optiplex desktops, precision workstations, and professional series displays. Not all of them and absolutely nothing on the consumer side.



Not anything remotely new. Most chipsets produced in the last two years have displayport as do many third party video cards. End of the day, hasn't enticed anyone to use ship it on a consumer computer or display.

Thats not remotely true.

But you seem to be stuck with your idea.
post #150 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's also the chicken and the egg. We won't see new technologies on many computers because there aren't any peripherals yet. We won't see the peripherals because they aren't on the computer.

A few companies take tentative steps, and we get stuff slowly rolling out. Then, at some point, almost everything new has it.

Look at how long it took for USB 1 to become popular.

Gads. Good point. Do you remember the pre-usb days? Ugh... Really surprising how long it took for it to catch on considering how much it simplified external peripherals.
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post #151 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Thats not remotely true.

But you seem to be stuck with your idea.

Why bother. You're not not going to listen to anything other than Apple is infallible and every computer and monitor on the market is currently shipping with displayport.
post #152 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Gads. Good point. Do you remember the pre-usb days? Ugh... Really surprising how long it took for it to catch on considering how much it simplified external peripherals.

following that line of argument why didn't ADC catch on? was it a licensing issue or just a mine is better than yours attitude in the market? I suppose it must take a lot of effort for any technology to gain enough traction that it can be regarded as a standard.

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post #153 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You have to admit, they waffled far more than was necessary on that technology. When mainstream manufacturer's are producing it before it's a ratified draft, you know you're dragging your feet a wee bit too much.

The 802.11n spec is an unusual circumstance. They took way too long and we needed something faster for WiFi so devices got built with drafts. On the other end of that spectrum we have OpenCL which was ratified in record time and adopted across the board quickly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Look at how long it took for USB 1 to become popular.

Im predicting well see a lot of parallels to USB1.0 when we look back at DP.
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post #154 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

its also lower resolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

You mean like 27" and 30" displays? The resolution for DP is required to support PC displays. For Apple DP was the right choice over HDMI.

HDMI 1.3 apparently can drive 2560x1600@75Hz. The real difference being, if you want to go beyond that at 60Hz or above, there is a standard for that, but you'll need DP 1.2. The catch is, DP 1.2 isn't available yet, you'll need to replace your current Mac to get a higher resolution than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Apple didn't connect audio to the port on the motherboard.

If that's true, why didn't Apple connect it? In effect, that's what was really asked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

No, they aren't. They are capable of displaying a signal from a PC, but when they can do all do edge to edge output without overscan, they are just compatible.

Every HDTV I've used did proper edge-to-edge display with a computer. I suppose it's something to watch out for. Definitions vary, but to me, what separates an HDTV from a computer display was the dot pattern and dot pitch. Some HDTVs still use a honeycomb dot pattern, and most have a very low dot pitch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

No- you're the one misinformed. Is it 7.1?

While 7.1 might be desirable by some for TV use, why does it matter for computers? I don't see going beyond 5.1 for my home theater, and I'm not going above 2.1 for my computer.
post #155 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Why bother. You're not not going to listen to anything other than Apple is infallible and every computer and monitor on the market is currently shipping with displayport.

You just make things up.
post #156 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange whip View Post

following that line of argument why didn't ADC catch on? was it a licensing issue or just a mine is better than yours attitude in the market? I suppose it must take a lot of effort for any technology to gain enough traction that it can be regarded as a standard.

That was just an Apple standard. It had its good points, and its bad points.
post #157 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Every HDTV I've used did proper edge-to-edge display with a computer. I suppose it's something to watch out for. Definitions vary, but to me, what separates an HDTV from a computer display was the dot pattern and dot pitch. Some HDTVs still use a honeycomb dot pattern, and most have a very low dot pitch.

Then you've been lucky. I've bought 4 in the last 6 years, from rear projectors, through LCD and OLED and none of them offered the option to turn off overscan. On the Sony's, you could enter into the service menu to tweak if you could stumble around various 3 digit abbreviations for every function. Not for the meek.

I know this because I've been using HTPC's hooked up to TV's for years. You've been very lucky.
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post #158 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Then you've been lucky. I've bought 4 in the last 6 years, from rear projectors, through LCD and OLED and none of them offered the option to turn off overscan. On the Sony's, you could enter into the service menu to tweak if you could stumble around various 3 digit abbreviations for every function. Not for the meek.

I know this because I've been using HTPC's hooked up to TV's for years. You've been very lucky.

I haven't had the problem either. But you must have a DVI computer port on the Tv. This shows one of the major imitations of HDMI.
post #159 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

So basically you're saying resolution on TV images makes a bigger difference and is more important than on computer displays? Even though we sit 10+ feet away from a TV but only a few from a computer display?

You're arguing in circles, which means you don't really know what you're talking about.

The best part is how completely at odds it is from his 720p Apple TV vs BluRay argument.
post #160 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I haven't had the problem either. But you must have a DVI computer port on the Tv. This shows one of the major imitations of HDMI.

It's not a technological limitation, it's an implementation issue. Television commonly uses overscan (still does as a matter of fact, although the reasons for that are somewhat dated in a digital age). The television's had both HDMI and DVI. They all exhibit the same overscan behavior. They are first and foremost TV's and designed for that media. Even the set that I have with a VGA connector, which is a PC only connector, can't even put a full screen output without huge borders or overscan. They simply aren't designed first and foremost for a PC output.

It's encouraging to hear that the issue may be fading, but it's certainly not a standard or a thing of the past.
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