Microsoft official admits Windows 7 design inspired by Mac OS X - Page 5

Not to nitpick or sound like language-usage police or anything, but this one has been bugging me for a while, and I see it a lot: when and how did 'Hear! Hear!' become 'Here here' on the internetz?

Neither of these are "better" it's just your preference.

Opening a document in Mac OS X that you were working on is easier for me because I have quicker access to my documents from the Documents stack which is a a navigable "jump-list" of the all my documents.

The visual indicator for what windows are open with which application is called "pause-click" and is also right on the dock.

Whatever works for you is fine, but overall Mac OS X is better IMO. More logical, more consistent, easier and faster to get at things etc.

WOW great post! I have said the same time and time again. Well done and though out! :-)

You might want to look up the term "out of context".

i have switched to mac and of course will never go back to pc hell

whenever i have to work with pcs i get so frustrated because navigating through a lot of open windows is just...plain terrible to do

for their next release, microsoft (for their windows X, or windows 10.7, or however they wish to rip apple off again) will steal exposé, and that might make things different

having viruses and registry? those have been around since windows 95, someone tell ballmer that

You are right it does have a KDE look but also has the look of Debian 5.0. Also as someone else mentioned Ubuntu.

this is just Micro$oft doing what they do best. Copy, cheat, and steal. But at least this time they can admit it. Windows has been trying to look like OS X for so long now. Still does not have the user friendly interface that Mac has. Keep trying Micro$oft. You almost got it. Maybe Micro$oft should try something different, like an original idea instead of copying off others and calling it your own.

Jobs for President

That comment is even more pathetic them something your buddy Quadra or Mouse would say. You guys are neck deep in the kool aid.

But they did improve on that stuff, if you've bothered to try it, or at least read some reviews from people who have actually tried it. The stuff MS has "stolen", they have also improved upon. You can grab a window and shake it to clear all other windows from the desktop, for instance. Windows Key+Tab cycles through open windows. The latter has been around (in Windows) since Vista.
I like it, the borrowing back and forth. It makes things better for everyone. If people didn't do that, you'd still be driving around in the first car ever made by the first manufacturer to ever make one. Imagine if Apple died in the 90's, and we got stuck at Windows ME?

I'm a fan of both OS's, they both have their benefit. I'd be even happier if someone else could manage a decent GUI and a solid kernel to improve upon both of these OS designs and backends. Without this bickering back and forth about who's stuff is better, and always trying to one-up the other guy, innovation would be non-existent.

20hrs? perhaps your company should hire a competent worker?

I think M$ should name it the "Monkey-touch" instead of Multi-touch. because when it doesn't work, user starts to scratch their head, shrugging with no clue... kinda fun.... haha

Shows how little you know about history. Apple paid Xerox for the GUI with shares of stock, then innovated it. All Microsoft did was take 10 years to do what Apple did back in 1985.

Not just neck deep - we're ingesting it.....

What anecdotal evidence you have!

Imagine you never hearing about how Dell, HP, Compaq, Gateway, Asus all recalled their batteries for the same reason that Apple did: Because Sony made them!

Or how that scratchy HDD was Seagate's fault and others suffered the same issues!

Completely erased partitions? Oh, right, never happened to anybody but OSX users, who don't even use 80s style partitions!

Hate to break it to you, but wintards like you are vastly outnumbered here, so save your stupid myths for retarded sites!

Oh, skeeter, just how did you get to be such an angry, bitter person? You haven't managed to make a post in days that wasn't just dripping with hate, resentment and jealousy. Maybe you should run along and play with your themes, it might soothe you.

Yeah I too feel guilty for not reading the paid ads aka review of windows, or that I didn't give a try to the new version crappy software that has taken 15 or so years of my life with crashes, bugs, viruses, bad design, and above all complete and utter impossibility of using the system for more than 20% of the time (the other 80% you are servicing it) to get some actual productive work done.

I feel so guilty that since I switched to apple three years ago (and that includes the iphone) I can actually get my work done and my digital life organized in an intuitive, effective, beautiful looking, and highly productive way.

I feel so guilty for not checking windows 7, for not giving one single toss about microsoft's garbage and actually using my computer instead to enrich and enable my daily life.

But in honesty now, I feel such a damn fool that I didn't switch to apple earlier on, because of all the blah blah of the idiot pc zealots and the sheer lying and b**ing of apple on their price, incompatibility and all the other garbage thrown at apple.

Now when I want to change a setting I just spotlight or search setting instead of ploughing through inane menus and submenus. I have set beautiful icons for my folders that I can quickly and intuitively access. I have arranged my work and digital life there and I can spotlight and find anything in a flash, be it music, pictures, receipts, university papers, books, research, spreadsheets. I can set spaces to keep things separate, hot corners to fastly access functions, expose, multi gestures. I have full drive encryption in file vault and super easy way to make encrypted images for my sensitive data. I now have an app on the iphone with 3DES syncing to my computer.

I have super community support by intelligent people for a change via apple or the user forums, and extra fast updates from apple for any mishap. I have the best music player in the world in itunes that I have only recently realized its huge potential, I have my radio, my beloved podcasts, my huge music library there. I have great open source software from the community that fits in perfectly with apple's interface and I have the option of some fantastic commercial programs that untie my hands. In what is one of my most loved pieces of software, super duper, I can clone my whole hd in a flash and tranfer it as is to any mac, or boot from it, I can update it in a flahsh, I can just choose to take a system clone only. And of course I ve got the best backup in the bussiness in time machine and the easiest most intuitive way to do it in the time capsule. I dont have an antivirus and antimalware bogging my system. (I can go on ad infinitum in this list...but I ll stop)

All these integrate perfectly with my touch and iphone in a seamless way (that could of course improve and I am sure it will).

Recently too, I have got the best cloud service on the planet (after a slow start that apple was generous to admit and compensate ALL users with free months usage) to integrate all my digital life and sync it all together so I am not tied to a single desktop. I can easily share with anyone almost any file size I want...and like I said all that ties in seamlessly by the best mobile platform on the globe, the one where the most innovation and applications happen, the smartest mobile computer in the iphone. And soon this will integrate with the tablet, which will be a revolution so big I wont even go into. I know I am not the super cutting edge with my hardware with apple (like some 0.00001 of the population dealing in experimental projects might be) but I also know that I am on the consumer cutting edge, that whatever new innovation appears I will get it faster than anyone on any other system, and above all much better implemented and completely functional. I will have wifi earlier than anyone else, I will have air tunes and streaming to my stereo earlier than anyone else, a proper digital media store and player earlier than anyone else, intuitive whole computer search earlier than anyone else, the thinnest laptop earlier than anyone else, the best most intuitive wifi backup and server storage station in the time capsule earlier than anyone else, the smallest most practical mini computer and home theatre center than anyone else, the best mobile platform earlier than anyone else, and better than anyone else. A 27 led computer, earlier and cheaper than anyone else, when everyone else will be dishing out the same money for a mere 27 inch monitor.

I, and other switchers reap these benefits.

AND YOU HAVE THE GALL TO ASK US WHY THE F. DIDN'T WE CHECK OUT WINDOWS 7 OR READ THE REVIEWS????? Windows 7 is the thing we care less than anything in the globe. After years and years of torture...

This is considered news?

snort.

Actually, I had a run of over a year without a BSOD at work. Then 4 in the last two days. Acrobat 9 is the common denominator, but an application should not bring down the whole system, etc, etc.

I've only had 10.6 for two weeks, but so far so good. I skipped Leopard, so the learning curve has been steeper than usual. But not too bad so far.

Well at least make sure you change favors now and then.....

Yeah I know

Well, one word for the outcome: fail. I've evaluated Windows 7. It ain't no MacOS. Not even close. Maybe they added some pretty farkles to the beast, but it's still a beast. For example -- I needed to set the workgroup. In MacOS, just pop into Preferences and there's only two places it could be -- in Networking or in File Sharing. Turns out it's in Networking. In Windows 7.... AGH! You will literally be clicking around for an HOUR trying to find that bloody setting unless you give up and type into the Control Panel search window, "change workgroup". That'll take you right where you need to be, but it's buried like four levels deep in Control panel sub-sub-sub menus.

And the whole friggin' OS is like that. I'm not a Windows simpleton -- see this article about using the 'reg' command, for example -- but Windows 7 keeps all the nasty parts of the Windows OS (like the Registry, which has horrifically primitive tools to deal with searching, querying, and modifying it, unlike the filesystem or real databases), and just layers sugar coating feet deep on top of it. I can't yet evaluate the native performance because Apple hasn't released native Boot Camp drivers yet for Windows 7, but under VMware 3 it runs like a dog even if you turn off all the effects (and that's another beef, why isn't there a simple setting to say "turn off all effects"? Instead, you end up on a search-and-click mission that takes you on a tour of the Control Panel, hitting the graphics section, accessibility, etc.), while Windows XP and Red Hat Linux run quite speedily under VMware (you can tell you're running under virtualization but it's quite acceptable).

In short, they've managed to maybe make it look sorta like MacOS, but you can polish a turd all you want, but in the end, it's still a turd.

No, you're incorrect unfortunately...I didn't ask.


You can come on over and switch to OS X, sure...and turn around and follow the same pattern. Keep yourself in the dark, only follow what's right in front of your face. Being the sheep when the shepherds are idiots doesn't bode well for your IQ.
Bash Windows because right now you're not using it, and don't bother to read anything about it. But make sure you defend people who post bad things today about what shortcomings might have been true 5 years ago.


Time Machine, by the by, failed me miserably on my second backup attempt. It has since been turned off and I'm using iBackup. Firewire connected hard drive, too. It's a shame sometimes things just don't work the way you want them to.

kiddo - HDMI/HDCP is explicitly designed to limit what your media device or computer can output - to enforce the big media co's DRM! it doesn't empower you, it imprisons you! the "flag" activating those controls has never been turned on yet (they are afraid of the backlash), but it is there, ready and waiting. get a clue. the last place you want it is inside your computer. on some peripheral like AppleTV, then it's sandboxed and ok. Apple is very wise to avoid incorporating it in the Mac OS.

of course MS embraces and implements all forms of DRM wholeheartedly, to monetize someday everything, or as much as they can. you suckers are lambs headed to the slaughter.

"Microsoft official admits Windows 7 design inspired by Mac OS X"

As if we didn't notice.

right, it's just terrible the way Boot Camp with its optimized drivers (or Parallels etc) lets you run Windows 7 and/or Linux all on just one Mac instead of your half dozen computers! even together at the same time on the same desktop!! and yes even drag and drop between them!!! oh the horrible savage Mac lock down cruelty!!!!

you must be glad MS forgot to copy this in wide-open Windows 7!

True. It's really this simple. Each helped the other BUT one is from an engineering POV the other an artist. Macs, in a way, work the way you would think they should, to some degree that is if you had say used a computer once or twice. Problem is Steve has forgotten all the artists ornhas been extremly hard in them while focusing most of thier attention on consumer electronics and not building the machine that is powerful, without gotchas, strong, fast and priced within reason. Apple still has a huge GAO between the iMac and Mac Pro that one day needs to be addressed. No Steve. You won't lose millions of pro sales if you build mid range high end gpu esata express headless macs. Apple will make more money not less.


Again case in point: Avid/Dugudesign. Owns Avid. Most shows ate down on Avid. Fcp is making some small headway. Friend if mine, foley fx manager for "No Country For Old Med" did a lot of it on FCP. anyway Avid saw computers were getting faster and people no longer needed ro tools TDM cards to off load the processing. And with 16 cores soon. Wow anyway, they bought MAudio which relies all on native FSB CLU GPU FPU processing. Today you can walk around with a 24 track studio in your bacpack. Would have cost $50,000 just 10 years ago if not more.
Apple needs to get it and I don't think they will until Steve steps down. I was right about Aple using intel when everyone said no way. Trust me. It's going to happen. The mac Pro will be 64 core machines and there wil be 8/16 core midrange, user friendly as in you can buy your own graphic card, boxes one day.

if you want to customize Mac Finder options or desktop/dock elements, themes, etc. there is plenty of good shareware available to do that. just go get some and use it! it's easy to find and use.

or if you want more advanced control, learn to use the Mac OS Terminal to do these things yourself via Unix commands. oh - but that would be "involvement" in "'customization' (of any sort)" - wouldn't it? ooops.

guess you're glad that is another thing MS forgot to copy in Windows 7.

Uhm, that's software. The dude was talking about hardware. And yes, Apple locks down their hardware. In a Windows or Linux box you can change network cards, graphics cards, upgrade your processor to a faster one, add a hardware RAID controller or just a controller for lots of SATA ports for doing software RAID, and so on and so forth. You can't do that on any Apple hardware other than the Mac Pro, and the Mac Pro only supports a very limited number of Apple-certified or Apple-built devices.

The Apple approach lets them build a very reliable hardware/software combination since it doesn't have to deal with the driver nightmare that faces Linux developers, where a vendor comes out with a new rev of their graphics hardware that happens to need one bit toggled different under very limited conditions and if you don't toggle that bit at exactly the right time and place, it locks up the whole PCI-X bus and takes down your system (since your disk I/O subsystem is dead too at that point). But it does mean that you don't upgrade an Apple -- you sell it to someone upgrading from an even older Apple, and then buy a new one. Which as far as Apple is concerned is all fine and good, but those of us with more technical chops definitely notice the difference, and put up with it only because Macs and the Mac OS just plain *work* without any fuss, muss, or headaches. I develop Linux drivers and software all day long. I don't want to fight with the hardware and software on my development workstation when all I want to do is edit my bloody source file and export it on NFS to the Linux compile farm that compiles it for various Linux distributions. Both Linux and Windows just are too bloody FIDDLY when all I want to do is get work done...

It's certainly better for the use case I described. It takes less clicks to open an application with the desired document. If the amount of clicks is the criteria than Windows 7 has the superior implementation of the same concept.


I guess it really depends if you organize your documents in a flat hierarchy () but navigating several levels of folders until one does find the desired document is anything but quick.


I don't understand what you are saying. The dock does not visually differentiate whether one or more windows are open and so especially minimized windows do not have a visual representation.


Standard Disciple of his Jobness disclaimer. \ Does Apple actually provide these text modules somewhere?

nah, go back and look at post #82 in full and the other posts down there by DaHarder, everyone is talking about the OS one way or another. this whole article/thread is about the OS's unless i missed one among the five pages.

You still "drill down in folders"?

Whether in Windows (any version) or on the Mac, I always use an indexing tool of some sort. On the Mac, I use LaunchBar (someone else mentioned it above... it's GREAT!), where as even Spotlight, either in the Taskbar or in every Open/Save dialog is sufficient for most people. Another must have utility on the Mac is DefaultFolder. I've been using it since the early 90's.

Regardless, drilling down in folders is quite primitive in my mind, and very time wasting.

FYI: On Windows, try Launchy or Colibri.

I feel the same way.


Now that Siemens has NX for the Mac platform, there is nothing the Windows platforms can offer me, except misery.

Microsoft copied the "look and feel" of OSX? How about they "steal" other good Apple ideas, like having applications as package/folders instead of allowing developers to dump their files all over the place willy-nilly. There are software packages on WIndows that literally s**t files everywhere. In WINDOWS, WINDOWS\\SYSTEM32, it's home directory, a user's My Documents. Everywhere. DLL files everywhere. It would also help avoid the problem of DLL files accidentally getting moved and breaking programs totally. On a Mac, DLL files are packaged and structured, not just hidden with a default show/hide option.

It's file chaos in Windows...

People are raving about the Windows GUI, like children with a new toy, but the problem with Windows is that this GUI that's so good is still the front-end to something rather badly written and nasty. That, having the operating system and applications organized better, should be Microsoft's priority but I think the NT kernel is beyond the point of salvation.

Windows is just plain awful under the hood. No matter how much perfume you slap over a turd, it's still a turd.

Actually, I don't as I'm mostly working with the keyboard which is usually far more efficient but that's beside the point. My argument is that for people who work primarily with the mouse the Windows jump lists provide a quicker access to recently used documents than the OS X implementation.

And even Spotlight/Windows search is not always a remedy to the problem as sometimes the documents you search are not in the loaded index (i.e. you wait up to 10 seconds and more until the indexing service finds the document) or you get dozens of hits because the keywords you entered unfortunately are present in dozens of documents and than the search refinement game starts (which words to enter to narrow down the result set).

No more "special" than you - I'm just a normal human being whose arm and shoulder will get tired and sore from repeatedly reaching up to the screen. Why, what are you - Robocop? Have you ever had a shoulder injury, or the same pinched nerve that I have? Like I said, painful.


They also had little or no use. They have more these days, but other than the kitchen computer (as invented by Microsoft, see Windows XP packaging), I fail to see what for outside of vertical markets.



What? If you can't give the definitions to your own terms that I asked for, just say so. But in future perhaps you should think about being able to back up your soundbites, in case anyone else asks for a definition.


Ahh, ye olde "web experience" argument, you sound like an advertisement for IE. The last time I used Flash for anything substantial (other than uploading pictures with PhotoBucket) was when I was throwing shoes at George Bush - and that's pretty much all Flash is good for. Any sites based on Flash rarely do anything that can't be accomplished without it. "Whole web experience" -


Do you even know what you are talking about?

1. Flash is made by Adobe, and is not under Apples control.
2. I have Flash installed, for the five times a year I actually need it - once again, not under Apples control. Exactly how am I under Apples control? Ahh, don't bother - we already know you can't back up your soundbites with any kind of fact.


Whatever. Trying to follow your line of reasoning is like herding cats, only less fun.

Your PC down again?

Apple supporters and users have already MADE a choice - which is apparently what the masses - such as yourself - don't seem to like. Don't like my choice of computer? Cry me a river.



Quality is in the eye of the beholder. It's also more important than quantity.

Microsoft is now denying it all.

http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/win...windows-7.aspx

Democracy and free market capitalism are not synonymous. One is a political structure, the other is an economic model.

If you're so happy with your PC, good for you, but the thing Is .... why do you and others like you spend so much time on an Apple fan site trying to justify your decision to us? Talk about "penis envy"...... sounds to me like you people have it in spades. \

And perhaps you don't know your a**hole from your elbow. You want to check out the "true value" of a retail product? .... go to the used/second hand marketplace, see what consumers say with their $$$ as to which computer "holds its value" ..... Invariably Macs retain more of their value, over a longer period of time, day in and day out than any PC. ..... funny isn't it when, according to you, they all use the same hardware pieces.