Microsoft denies Apple had influence on Windows 7 design - Page 4

What makes you think I represent AI?! When you have a discussion with another person you should be clear and concise. You can't simply say because some else did it then I can do it and get away with it. If I made such mistake then I will admit it but I didn't.

What are we debating? MS copying Apple's look and feel is not an Apple fanboy conspiracy. An executive authorized to speak to the press said so in an official statement. No one here thinks he just made it up. Clearly, he wasn't supposed to say it but that does not make it untrue. What is there to argue about? It seems like an open and shut case complete with an un-coerced confession.

The OSX dock bears no resemblance to the Windows Taskbar except for the fact it's at the bottom and allows the selection of running applications. The Dock is such an obvious descendant of the one found in NeXT products, you look silly trying to imply it's copied from Microsoft, even worse when you try to equate it with the Taskbar.

OS X has multi-touch support, the MacBook, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air and the Magic Mouse.

WindowsCE is not NT or 9x ported to work on ARM.

Funny how MS' "deliberate" PR seems to always work out so well for Apple.

Any time MS uses the word "Apple" or "Mac" in a sentence, they end up looking like retards and Apple ends up selling a whole lot more of something.

Good hell...I clicked on your link and have been reading all related articles for like an hour now...I'm addicted now...thanks!

Well notice how everyone has been discussing Win7 for the last 2 days ad nauseum?

Until AI gets video chat and you can see my face will you get 100% clear and concise. In the meantime we need to use common sense.

How many times have we heard this.....just this week?


No mind reading was necessary, everyone else got it. But you ignored person after person after person after person who explained it to you. And this was an article that was 12 sentences long.

If you can't write in clear and concise manner then may be you should stop posting, take some writing classes, and come back. Otherwise, stop blaming others for your lack of writing and communication skills.

Here's a good one too:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM...C7858E854.html

Compare all you like of how behind Microsoft was in desktop technology to Apple and NeXT.

I love this line: "I'd like to point out that I spent much of the 90s disappointed not that Microsoft built Windows upon concepts Apple invented for the Mac, but that Windows was such a poor copy. "

We've also been discussing Vista for the last 2 YEARS ad nauseum. That discussion is also what nearly destoyed MS' image and contributed to record Apple gains.

By all means though, let's keep talking about how MS admitted they ripped off Apple.

Perhaps you and you alone should take all what you mention and perhaps an anger management class on top of it since you're the ONLY one who didn't understand the post . Good bye.

They didn't- one employee who doesn't speak for MS did.
And everyone likes Win7, except diehard Mac addicts, so I don't quite get the comparison. \

1.) You haven't- you're misquoting me. Where are the quotes?

2.) What are you talking about? As if I was the only person who didn't get that half a sentence ommission compared to my one word omit. Give it up.

I am not the one who keeps typing in caps and feels compelled to reply to everyone in the thread

Not everyone. I do not like Windows in general, that's 15 years of not liking Windows. I have a Mac for a very short time, I'm not a diehard fan which owns every Apple product and I do not like everything that Apple does either.

Because Microsoft is the biggest consumer software company in the World. They own over 90% of the computer OS and Office suite. Not to mention a big chunk of the server software business and internet browser market. They are also one of the biggest and most recognized company in the World. Period. One would expect that such a company would have the best and brightest working for them. Their RD bugdet alone is most likely equal to the total revenue of many of their smaller competitors. One would expect that every other software company to be copying from them.


Apple, as a whole, may not be consider a small company. But it is a very small software company. And yet, it is their software that that seems to set the standard for others. Time after time.

Apple is also a very small computer hardware company when compared to Dell, HP or Acer. And yet, it is their designs that are copied by others.

Apple is a small and young mobile company when compared to old timers like Nokia, Sony/Ericsson, or Motorola. Whose been in the mobile business since it began. But all the other cell phone makers are trying desparately to come up with an "iPhone killer". Before the iPhone becomes the iPod of the mobile market.

So the bottom line is that Microsoft shouldn't have to copy. They should be the one that everyone is copying from. But it is not in their culture to win over consumers with superior products. It is much easier to copy someone elses work and hope that the monopoly they have does the rest. But they're finding out that it's no longer like the good old days. When they could actually get away with abusing their monopoly to "win" over consumers.

Did you know that Snow Leopard shipped with a re-sizable popup keyboard built right into the OS. If that is not for touch screen applications. What is it for???????

Think and learn before you post.....

One other thing..... If the Mac Tablet has a touch screen will you retract your statement?

The statement "Microsoft copied Apples look" is true, no matter what way you look at it.
Anyone here can bring up any real or imaginary history lesson involving Microsoft, Apple, Xerox, NextStep, Sun, whatever... if that story doesn't end with Microsoft trying to make Windows 7 look like Mac OS X, then you ended the story too early.

If no computer or software company ever copied anyone else, no one reading this thread would be using a mouse or a touchscreen. Heck, you're computer wouldn't even be online, routers and modems weren't MS, Apple, or Linux originals.

I do and I have.......

Vista had Touch features first. Did Leopard before it got Snow?? NOooooooooooooo.

Why should I? Vista had Touch first. Did Leopard have Touch before it got Snowed? NOoooooooooooooo.

you'd be wrong, yesterday and today.

No, he's the evil twin from a parallel universe.

And that was one of the main reason why Apple lost their lawsuit against Microsoft for copying their Mac OS. Microsoft showed the jury that Windows did not look like the MAC OS. Which looked nothing like the GUI from Xerox. While Windows actually looked more like the GUI found on the Xerox Star computer. Bill Gates stated that both Apple and MS stole their GUI ideas from Xerox PARC. Therefore MS can't be accused of stealing from Apple.

Don't be ridiculous. Jobs asked permission to use the Xerox-developed ideas (that shoud be reflected in the wikipedia article). Xerox said okay. Xerox had no vision about how useful it was, Jobs and Wozniak had the vision. They developed the ideas much further than Xerox ever could have.

A clearcut case of implausible deniability.

Is there an echo in here?

You seemed to care a lot when someone suggested Apple stole from Xerox. Not that you know it's false, you don't care. What a baby you are.

You are amazing once you get going.

Apple has the best mobile touchscreen (2 1/2 years ago it turned the mobile industry upside down, and nobody's caught up yet). Apple has by far the best touch trackpad of anyone. They have chosen not to put a touchscreen on a computer. I don't get your point - you're saying that because there are PCs with touchscreens, Apple is behind in touch innovation? Hardly.

The taskbar/Doc debate is hilarious also. The 90s Microsoft Taskbar was hardly functional - less so than what Apple was doing. If I'm remembering right, there was a pull-down menu (upper right) that listed your open apps. You could actually have more than one app, and more than one window in the same app onscreen at the same time. Imagine that. Microsoft couldn't.

Transparency has been part of OSX since the beginning and decent windows management is only new to Windows. As for 3D, what function did it actually perform? Probably impressive for Linux fans though.

McD

you complain about wiki cos anyone can put anything on it, then you post roughly drafted?

hahahahaha

That is such BS. First, the GUI concept predates Xerox. Second, Jeff Raskin, one of Apple's famous early engineers, was interested in GUI's before coming to Apple and Apple brought him on board partially for his knowledge in that area. To get Jobs interested as well, he talked Jobs into getting permission to check our Xerox's PARC to get inspiration for a GUI. Apple paid Xerox millions of dollars for the privilege. Further, Xerox's GUI was nothing like what Apple eventually came up. It couldn't be because Apple had to create ways to bring a GUI to an inexpensive computer, whereas Xerox's GUI was designed to work on a computer that costs over $10, 000.

Here is a source that describes the events pretty well.

look, in the field of technology, especially consumer products, there is inevitably a huge amount of "cross fertilization" among all the competitors. new techniques, new services, new concepts that any one introduces and become popular then spread rapidly throughout the entire industry. Apple has adapted a lot of ideas that others originated for its GUI and services, and vice versa. "adaptation" is a good word to use in general for this constant "borrowing" of ideas from each other. and it's a good thing.

the next level i suppose is "emulation." (def: "match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation"). if MS were being honest, they would say that in some regards they were trying to emulate the Mac GUI in W7 - and actually that pretty much is what that poor MS guy did say. and i think it is fair - and not negative - to say MS has consistently been seeking to emulate many aspects of the Apple OS since the birth of Windows in the early '90's. when they deny even that they just prove what an utter phony Ballmer is. as if more proof were needed ...

but a flat out "copy" (or pejoratively, a knock-off) has to mean almost a literal reproduction of something. like for example the new MS retail stores, a veritable copy of Apple Stores beyond any possible dispute (adding one or two tweaks is not enough).

i keep wondering about the fate of that poor honest MS guy. i envision him hunkered down at home, unable to go back to MS HQ, shamed, shunned, excoriated, and of course doomed. the leper of Redmond.

He speaks for MS. Any MS employee being interviewed and making public statements is speaking for their compnay. Besides, that's all the public sees.

Windows copies/borrows/steals something here or there. .. Apple copies/borrows/steals something from Windows. It happens with software and look and feel cannot be copyrighted so Apple learned in the early 1990s. So what people. That's what progress is"

What can you do - they don't have SJ's Big Brother presence to control their every breath, thought, spoken word or fart...

Waggghhh.

I don't? You read my mind?
How do you know how I feel or what I care about??
What an odd statement indeed.