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Microsoft denies Apple had influence on Windows 7 design - Page 3

post #81 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Oh god- who cares? It's all perception anyway. People in the US think Henry Ford invented the automobile.

I don't know one person that says that. Do you go out of your way to argue with people? All I see is your pitiful comebacks throughout the thread. Go away. It ruins the thread.

LOL @ saying os x lite isn't a true touch OS because it doesn't run two apps on the screen? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. It's UNIX based and was built for that. The whole OS does not run one file, it constantly has multiple tasks going on. Apple just doesn't allow consumer apps to run in the background because... a) most consumer devs are idiots and would produce memory leaks b) couldn't sandbox the app as much from taking down a mobile platform c) TO PRESERVE BATTERY LIFE.

You remember a little device called the newton? Apple had touch much much before m$.

But if you're referring to a desktop OS having touch, are you serious? That is the dumbest idea in the world. My hand over my 24" screen takes up about ~15% of the screen real-estate. No to mention it's the worst posture in the world if you're sitting down. And it is much more difficult to wipe off greasy fingerprints on a screen because of the size no matter what the material.

And LOL at saying Amazon existed as a company with great service, therefore apple didn't create anything new. Amazon is a web only company. They don't do any brick and mortar besides in Seattle. I'm not even sure they offer that any more. Apple created an experience and offering like no other. It was the first of it's kind as an electronics store to offer workshops, free tech support, free product demos, free internet usage in any sort of significance.

<This is where you insert you few lines of John Dvorak type remarks> KGO.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #82 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Oh I just thought Apple always invents everything and has them available first. \
I forgot:
1.) Microsoft has a Touch screen PC already available but Apple invented it.
2.) Microsoft had the first available Task Bar (since the 90's) but Apple invented it before they released their Dock in OSX.

1.) Saying there is a difference between mobile and a screen is nonsense. It's all the same technology.

2.) Once again, you find yourself making unfounded statements. NextStep had a dock back in 88. Which OS X migrated after NextStep was purchased by apple.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #83 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Microsoft had the first available Task Bar (since the 90's) but Apple invented it before they released their Dock in OSX.

We covered this ages ago: The Apple dock is the evolution of the NeXT dock which dates back to 1988, and both are/were more than a task bar. Besides, Microsoft already admitted that they stole their 7 dock from Apple.
post #84 of 170
There is rarely anything that is an original design. Everything is somehow influenced by one thing or another. Apple is influenced by Microsoft and Microsoft is influence by Apple.

Enough of this debate already. This is a great example of good competition. Both are better because of each other.
post #85 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

You know with This talk of copy cop copy.
Want to
see where a lot of leopard features came from?

From Mac OS X is where.

As for your video. That was a demo from 2003. of a project that actually never took off. for all you know, Apple licensed any actual 'copied' information from Sun.
post #86 of 170
The only reason Winblows is even remotely usable today is because of Apple.

Same goes for mobiles.
post #87 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by joergsi View Post

Nope, Apple has stolen from XEROX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto

regards,

Joerg

Wrong, Apple paid for it with company stock. There wasn't any "stealing" going on.
post #88 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

PS did you also know that Microsoft came up with the quick finder concept? Again. I'm a mac user but msft never got the quick finder to work. But apple did and called it spotliight. .

Another example of taking AN IDEA (which are not copyrightable in or out of the computer world) and creating something out of it. Which is the very nature of innovation. And so long as it stays just the bare idea, that is not stealing
post #89 of 170
Quote:

Your link has nothing to do with Apple and stealing the GUI, unless you want to clarify.
post #90 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

From Mac OS X is where.

As for your video. That was a demo from 2003. of a project that actually never took off. for all you know, Apple licensed any actual 'copied' information from Sun.

FYI, Apple had a composited desktop in 2000, and later moved it to the GPU to improve performance. Project "Looking Glass" was more desktop effects than what Apple had at the time, but was based on the same tech.

Apple -> Sun -> Linux -> and of course last, loser Microsoft.
post #91 of 170
I do not know what is worse, making such stupid comment to the media, knowing that the perception is you copied many features from Apple. Which I is not a bad thing, If you can improve on the original design.

The jury is out on Windows 7, but it is much much better than Vista and better than XP.

To actually try and retract such comment is really stupid and makes me wonder, who has the brains in that company, since it was MS employee who made the statement.

I wonder if he will get a good bonus this year
post #92 of 170
MacDailyNews Take: Microsoft has been banking on ignorance for 30+ years. It's no wonder they fear the truth, especially when it emanates from inside their own ranks. Calling more attention to it via this lame rebuke only highlights Microsoft's endemic ineptitude. That said, glasses up, "May Steve Ballmer remain Microsoft's CEO for as long as it takes!"
post #93 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

LOL @ saying os x lite isn't a true touch OS because it doesn't run two apps on the screen? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. It's UNIX based and was built for that. The whole OS does not run one file, it constantly has multiple tasks going on. Apple just doesn't allow consumer apps to run in the background because... a) most consumer devs are idiots and would produce memory leaks b) couldn't sandbox the app as much from taking down a mobile platform c) TO PRESERVE BATTERY LIFE.


<This is where you insert you few lines of John Dvorak type remarks> KGO.

What are you talking about? OS lite? Memory leaks?
post #94 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

We covered this ages ago: The Apple dock is the evolution of the NeXT dock which dates back to 1988, and both are/were more than a task bar. Besides, Microsoft already admitted that they stole their 7 dock from Apple.

And you still don't get it!
How could they steal it from Apple if NeXt invented before they were part of Apple?

Where did Microsoft admit that- where is your link? I know you luv wiki- where is it?
post #95 of 170
Its really pathetic how one statement can get such attention and cause such a spark of debate that is ultimately meaningless. Some guy who sorta works for Microsoft, who wasn't even part of the Windows 7 design team, makes one off-handed remark and suddenly the headlines flash "BREAKING: Microsoft admits to copying Mac look and feel!!" Its pretty sad that we're such a headline-centric society.

Its just like last week, when Apple makes one change to their kernel, and suddenly the web explodes with rumors of "Apple Killing Hackintoshes! Atom support is dead!" Come on, really? First of all, does that really surprise anyone? And second, there's nothing stopping a programmer with some spare time to craft a customized kernel based on 10.6.2 that reenables support - it is open-source after all.
Video editor, tech enthusiast, developer.

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Video editor, tech enthusiast, developer.

http://www.yuusharo.com
http://www.studioyuu.com
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post #96 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet. So who's copying who? When does the Touch come out with SL Touch?

Speaking as someone who has actually created software to use the built-in multitouch features on both Windows 7 and Mac OS X, this is a flat-out lie.

Both Windows 7 and Mac OS X provide ways to use multitouch at the OS level. In fact, Mac OS X has had this ever since the multitouch trackpad came out (circa Tiger I believe). So Windows 7 is actually lagging a bit behind.

As for using a screen rather than a trackpad, it's splitting hairs at that point. I've tried many touchscreen desktop PCs over the years and I still don't see anything compelling about them because it isn't any more efficient to use the screen than a mouse/trackpad when you're tied to a keyboard. In fact, it's much more tiring on the arms.

And tablets are far more efficient for designers (working at subpixel levels of resolution). It's only when you go mobile where touchscreens become more compelling (as a way to save space mainly).
 
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post #97 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuusharo View Post

Its really pathetic how one statement can get such attention and cause such a spark of debate that is ultimately meaningless. Some guy who sorta works for Microsoft, who wasn't even part of the Windows 7 design team, makes one off-handed remark and suddenly the headlines flash "BREAKING: Microsoft admits to copying Mac look and feel!!" Its pretty sad that we're such a headline-centric society.

Its just like last week, when Apple makes one change to their kernel, and suddenly the web explodes with rumors of "Apple Killing Hackintoshes! Atom support is dead!" Come on, really? First of all, does that really surprise anyone? And second, there's nothing stopping a programmer with some spare time to craft a customized kernel based on 10.6.2 that reenables support - it is open-source after all.

He represents MS. You gotta wonder how many other people think the same way at MS.

The Aldouses, the Jim Allchins, etc.

Makes you wonder what the ground-level buzz is at MS. You think one of the big topics of conversation is OS X? Dollars-to-donuts, it is.
post #98 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Oh I just thought Apple always invents everything and has them available first. \
I forgot:
1.) Microsoft has a Touch screen PC already available but Apple invented it.
2.) Microsoft had the first available Task Bar (since the 90's) but Apple invented it before they released their Dock in OSX.

Who said Apple invented the touch screen?! and who said anything about who invented the touch screen?! You were saying that Apple Mac OS X lacks touch support and the reason for that was Apple does not make touch screen computers. At least not yet.

By the way, MS does not make computers.
post #99 of 170
Steve Ballmer himself said "We are going to copy the OSX dock" when talking about Win7 2 years ago or so.
post #100 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

OOOhh- a retraction.

MS knows how to keep Windows 7 alive in the news a month later. Pretty smart I think- this is obviously all planned PR.

All that anger, all that rage on here yesterday for what? NADA.

Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet. So who's copying who? When does the Touch come out with SL Touch?

TechDud ... M$ reminds me of you, very "hands on" .... unfortunately, neither hand knows what the other hand is doing.
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #101 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

He represents MS. You gotta wonder how many other people think the same way at MS.

The Aldouses, the Jim Allchins, etc.

Makes you wonder what the ground-level buzz is at MS. You think one of the big topics of conversation is OS X? Dollars-to-donuts, it is.

I thought the claim of "but it's built on that very stable core Vista technology, which is far more stable than the current Mac platform, for instance." was the real conceit. So, Vista technology is far more stable than a BSD derived OS? Now that is a claim that I would like to see substantiated.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

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post #102 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

OOOhh-

Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet. So who's copying who? When does the Touch come out with SL Touch?

I guess the "mobile version" of OSX, which has had touch features long before M$ had them, doesn't count in your books, why should it ... that wouldn't support your opinion. If you think, for one moment, that having touch on a computer desktop screen makes any sense at all, then then your opinion is worth even less than than usual. But hey, don't let having a worthless opinion stop you ... it never has in the past.
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #103 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Do you hate touching your ATM's screen running Windows everytime you pull out cash?

Do you "work" at your desk standing up?
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #104 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Oh right- we all know that Apple invented retail, glass buildings, spiral staircases, t shirts, apple logos, etc.
Did I leave out anything? \

No, but they put it all together a lot more successfully than anyone else, a concept that is probably unfamiliar to you.
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #105 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You know- you never hear Microsoft bragging that their Windows epress check out devices have been used in Apple stores for years. They're above all that.

That's because they don't know how to copy something they "own".
Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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Apple is not Appl ...... Please learn the difference!    
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post #106 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

OOOhh- a retraction.

MS knows how to keep Windows 7 alive in the news a month later. Pretty smart I think- this is obviously all planned PR.

All that anger, all that rage on here yesterday for what? NADA.

Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet. So who's copying who? When does the Touch come out with SL Touch?

Read a quote the other day about this kind of thinking: Microsoft is neither stupid enough or smart enough to manipulate things this way.

What did happen is that somebody slightly out of the loop -- and further out of it now -- committed the infraction of telling the truth. This had to be corrected by the corporate deadheads.
post #107 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Who said Apple invented the touch screen?! and who said anything about who invented the touch screen?! You were saying that Apple Mac OS X lacks touch support and the reason for that was Apple does not make touch screen computers. At least not yet.

By the way, MS does not make computers.

Add OS to it for crying out loud ( I will fix it for you)- that's what I meant. Of course MS doesn't make computers! Jeesh.
post #108 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Steve Ballmer himself said "We are going to copy the OSX dock" when talking about Win7 2 years ago or so.

I'm trying to find when MS said they were copying Apple's ( really NeXT's) taskbar back in the eighties or nineties as anoymouse said.
post #109 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Oh I just thought Apple always invents everything and has them available first. \
I forgot:
1.) Microsoft has a Touch screen PC OS already available but Apple invented it.

Well, Apple did have the Newton...

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

2.) Microsoft had the first available Task Bar (since the 90's) but Apple invented it before they released their Dock in OSX.

The task bar was Microsoft's answer to the classic Apple menu bar that is always found on the screen and gave access to more functionality than just the foreground application and even copied the clock.

Microsoft, to be different, placed theirs on the bottom of the screen, and which for a lot of people at introduction, found very strange and awkward.
post #110 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Add OS to it for crying out loud ( I will fix it for you)- that's what I meant. Of course MS doesn't make computers! Jeesh.

Quote:
1.) Microsoft has a Touch screen PC already available but Apple invented it.

Let's see "Microsoft has a Touch screen PC OS already available but Apple invented it.".. That statement format is still wrong. Next you gonna tell me to remove PC

Your attempted correction still wrong. I will help you to rewrite it "Microsoft already has touch enabled OS but Apple invented it.".

You should think about what you are writing before you write it. It is not my responsibility to read your mind.
post #111 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickwalker View Post

The task bar was Microsoft's answer to the classic Apple menu bar that is always found on the screen and gave access to more functionality than just the foreground application and even copied the clock.

Microsoft, to be different, placed theirs on the bottom of the screen, and which for a lot of people at introduction, found very strange and awkward.

....but got accustomed to using and became universal, hence OSX's dock.
post #112 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

OOOhh- a retraction.

MS knows how to keep Windows 7 alive in the news a month later. Pretty smart I think- this is obviously all planned PR.

All that anger, all that rage on here yesterday for what? NADA.

Just as I said yesterday , OSX has no touch features yet. So who's copying who? When does the Touch come out with SL Touch?

Technically you are incorrect the iphone OS is technically according to Apple OSX and therefore OSX does have touch features.
post #113 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

You should think about what you are writing before you write it. It is not my responsibility to read your mind.

Obviously- but it was mine's the other day to read AI's mind when they omitted vital information regarding Apple's iPhone profits. But you think you can have it both ways- right? WRONG.
Anybody could see I meant OS as MS has never made hardware with the exception of their very popular XBOX and mice.
post #114 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What are you talking about? OS lite? Memory leaks?

Have you ever done any iPhone or even Cocoa development?

Memory leaks are notoriously easy to miss and can be a pain in the butt to correct for newer developers.

It's only developers that understand and agree with the reasoning behind the more restrictive iPhone platform; it's the non-developers that whine about it out of simple ignorance.
post #115 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I'm trying to find when MS said they were copying Apple's ( really NeXT's) taskbar back in the eighties or nineties as anoymouse said.

Does it really make a difference? MS is a convicted monopoly abuser that clearly, blatantly, unabashedly apes Apple's every move. This is obvious, from the Zune, to the Stores, to WinMo. Just look at the way MS is run. Look at the CEO. Look at what they've done over the past 10 years. It's pretty clear who is doing the Lion's share of the "borrowing."

If Apple were doing any kind of copying, we shoud be seeing MS products that are actually worth copying!! There aren't any. All we see are Apple knockoffs that obviously arrive late to the game, and surprisingly enough for an operation with such deep pockets, they're rather poor copies.
post #116 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by milles21 View Post

Technically you are incorrect the iphone OS is technically according to Apple OSX and therefore OSX does have touch features.

So technically Windows mobile is Windows and therefor MS Windows had mobile first??
post #117 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Does it really make a difference? MS is a convicted monopoly abuser that clearly, blatantly, unabashedly apes Apple's every move. This is obvious, from the Zune, to the Stores, to WinMo. Just look at the way MS is run. Look at the CEO. Look at what they've done over the past 10 years. It's pretty clear who is doing the Lion's share of the "borrowing."

If Apple were doing any kind of copying, we shoud be seeing MS products that are actually worth copying!! There aren't any. All we see are Apple knockoffs that obviously arrive late to the game, and surprisingly enough for an operation with such deep pockets, they're rather poor copies.

Why does everybody act on here like this is some new EVIL INVENTION of copying that MS is perpetuating.
MMMUUuuuuaaaaaHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the history and very nature of capitalism itself for crying out loud- be it cars , planes , trains, automobiles, hamburgers- you name it.
Such misguided energy. Really! Get over it. Nothing is an exact copy of anything.

No wonder people accuse y'all of being blinded followers of dictator Apple.
post #118 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Obviously- but it was mine's the other day to read AI's mind when they omitted vital information regarding Apple's iPhone profits. But you think you can have it both ways- right? WRONG.
Anybody could see I meant OS as MS has never made hardware with the exception of their very popular XBOX and mice.

What makes you think I represent AI?! When you have a discussion with another person you should be clear and concise. You can't simply say because some else did it then I can do it and get away with it. If I made such mistake then I will admit it but I didn't.
post #119 of 170
What are we debating? MS copying Apple's look and feel is not an Apple fanboy conspiracy. An executive authorized to speak to the press said so in an official statement. No one here thinks he just made it up. Clearly, he wasn't supposed to say it but that does not make it untrue. What is there to argue about? It seems like an open and shut case complete with an un-coerced confession.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #120 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

....but got accustomed to using and became universal, hence OSX's dock.

The OSX dock bears no resemblance to the Windows Taskbar except for the fact it's at the bottom and allows the selection of running applications. The Dock is such an obvious descendant of the one found in NeXT products, you look silly trying to imply it's copied from Microsoft, even worse when you try to equate it with the Taskbar.
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