or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Apple looks to improve pen-based input on tablet touchscreens
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple looks to improve pen-based input on tablet touchscreens - Page 2

post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I guess credit card companies wanted a better signiture from those modded touches that now serve as sales registers.

You sign for credit cards? how quaint...
post #42 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I bet you said the virtual keyboard could never be a suitable replacement for a physical keyboard.

And BTW the virtual keyboard isn't a replacement for a real keyboard. It's fine ona phone in which you are doing minimal entries. But then again, you can't create a document on the iphone anyway so I guess it doesn't matter

Let me know how the virtual keyboard works for you when you spend all day typing reports, email, coding, or any other typing intensive situation. Then you can truly compare.
post #43 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

And BTW the virtual keyboard isn't a replacement for a real keyboard. It's fine ona phone in which you are doing minimal entries. But then again, you can't create a document on the iphone anyway so I guess it doesn't matter

Let me know how the virtual keyboard works for you when you spend all day typing reports, email, coding, or any other typing intensive situation. Then you can truly compare.

I bet I you type faster on an iPhone or even the Droids virtual keyboard than you can accurately type on a Droids physical keyboard. Being physical doesnt mean its better.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #44 of 69
an apple tablet coming with something as archaic as a stylus? soemthing the fanboys on this site said was a deadend thing?

that would never happen


They will ship it seperately in aluminium, with a few black buttons and charge $19 for it
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
post #45 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

an apple tablet coming with something as archaic as a stylus? soemthing the fanboys on this site said was a deadend thing?

Youre confusing two subjects. One is requiring a stylus like in current tablets in order to use the basic features of the device. The other having a capacitance stylus for things that a finger cant possibly do. The UI for a tablet has to be reworked for the size, type and primary input method for the device.

If Apple goes with Mac OS X then the device is a failure. If they go with a new GUI and a hybrid OS somewhere between the iPhone and Mac then you have a winner. A stylus wont be required, but may be needed by certain types of users for certain types of apps, unless you think virtual finger painting somehow can work to draw intricate sketches.

For instance, the iPhone OS having a capacitance touchscreen and UI designed for use with fingers, yet the touch PoS devices at Apple Stores will also have a stylus for signing of ones name after the data has been quickly inputed by thumb typing and finger scrolling.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #46 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Youre confusing two subjects.

do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
Reply
post #47 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something

oooh SNAP!
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

What do you eat with?

Chopsticks.
post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something

I think solipsism understands where you're coming from, as do we all.
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
Reply
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
Reply
post #50 of 69
FrogPad can also be a solution for quick on screen user input for Multi touch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te9O8HavQpQ
post #51 of 69
no discussion on the fact that this is likely just aftermath of the Ipod touch POS devices being implemented in their stores now. We know it to have this feature. No reason to jump to conclusions, if you need to still, 'there's a mat for that'.

If the tablet DOES get this feature, YAY. Multi-touch for 80%, pen for 20%, making notes. I would welcome this, but I'd be shocked if we get it. Along with the hints that this tablet would interact as an input device for desktops, I get excited it could be a WACOM tablet in its spare time.
post #52 of 69
I for one am delighted to hear this. I've been going back and forth over buying a modbook now, vs holding out to see what this tablet turns out to be. Stylus input, (imo) means almost certainly that there will be some kind of drawing application on the tablet- be it by apple or third party. I know I'm 1% of 1% or the market that wants something like this, but I'm glad to hear that it'll be 10" (not a popular thing around here, it seems) and have at least some kind of stylus support. Yay for my digital sketchbook!
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

So I guess now all of those who lambasted pen/stylus input because the iPhone doesn't support it will suddenly have a change of heart?

Hmm? Windows Mobile never abandoned the stylus option due to accuracy it afforded etc.

Good to see Apple finally coming around again

Note: 3rd party (iPhone) capacitive stylus solutions not withstanding.

Yes, people who think that a stylus on a phone is basically an irritant may well also believe that a stylus on a much larger screen makes sense. No "coming around" necessary.

And WinMo is going down in flames, so probably not a great example of how to do it right.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

do not blame me for your inadequacies in understanding something

See above. You really can't figure out how different UI conventions might work for different form factors?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #55 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yes, people who think that a stylus on a phone is basically an irritant may well also believe that a stylus on a much larger screen makes sense. No "coming around" necessary.

And WinMo is going down in flames, so probably not a great example of how to do it right.

Hes one of those all-or-nothing type people. He cant see that finger-based mutli-touch as the primary input method shouldnt be the only input method. I bet hed scoff at the idea of using a stylus to sign your credit card on the new iPod Touch PoS systems now used at Apple Stores. I wonder he understand that desiring a mouse and physical keyboard for notebook or desktop does not mean we would want one for a phone or tablet device.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #56 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Hes one of those all-or-nothing type people. He cant see that finger-based mutli-touch as the primary input method shouldnt be the only input method. I bet hed scoff at the idea of using a stylus to sign your credit card on the new iPod Touch PoS systems now used at Apple Stores. I wonder he understand that desiring a mouse and physical keyboard for notebook or desktop does not mean we would want one for a phone or tablet device.

Yeah. Hey fanboys, you like a physical keyboard on your laptops, and yet you're OK with not having one on your phone. Hypocrites!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #57 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Do we really want to go back to this old technology? Pens? Stylus? Aren't our fingers good enough?


No, Fingers are are inferior to a sharp-pointed stylus. With a stylus, punching buttons on web pages needs no enlarging of the page. With a stylus, highlighting text for cut and paste becomes easy.

The current implementation on the iPhone is suboptimal. If things worked with either a precision-pointed stylus OR a clumsy finger, we would be better off.

But Apple has a "only one way" paradigm for its designs. Note that they could easily have allowed bluetooth keyboards, but chose to deny users that possibility. Same with a stylus. Same with the iSore - you can't install apps bought elsewhere without voiding your warranty.

Apple says: "our way or the highway" to its customers, and that is one big reason why their products seldom achive anything more than niche-market status.
post #58 of 69
Found this thread via google search on handwriting and capacative touch.

I think there is now too much emphasis on the finger touch on a capacative screen. Sure, it looks fancy and magical perhaps, but in terms of functionality it is only useful for pressing buttons and scrolling. The finger is too big for handwriting or ink input, and perhaps drawing and sketching for that matter on a capacative screen in a mobile device. I am noticing this issue on my HTC HD2. The finger can be used for a coarse fine motor skills. But when it comes to handwriting/ink input, you need the fine motor skills pinching a pointy instrument. It is difficult to determine what the accuracy of the capacative screen is on the HD2, but wouldn't be surprised if it came near that of the iPhone. I tried a stylus for the iPhone, but the amount of intuitive response and accuracy of the device (the Pogo) leaves to be desired when it comes to ink input. There are companies out there that have already marketed inking on a capacative screen, like NTRIG and their Duosense pens. Looks very promising, if not one has to look out for vectoring issues. But it is a big step forward. If I understand the mechanics of capacative screens well, ink input should be possible on current devices. I understand it is probably a question of a sotware tweaking for increasing the touch sensitivity over a smaller surface area.
It is great to hear the people at apple are seriou about adding ink input and functionality on the iTablet. This is a great improvement on the overal functionality of the screen. Handwriting and inking is not dead. Inking is useful only to a certain degree, and onscreen keyboards with thumb typing isn't something to write home about, certainly if it comes to ergonomics. I happened to find this article, which could perhaps shed light on the possibilities: http://pocketnow.com/tech-news/htc-b...-in-new-patent
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wevenhuis View Post

Found this thread via google search on handwriting and capacative touch.

I think there is now too much emphasis on the finger touch on a capacative screen. Sure, it looks fancy and magical perhaps, but in terms of functionality it is only useful for pressing buttons and scrolling. The finger is too big for handwriting or ink input, and perhaps drawing and sketching for that matter on a capacative screen in a mobile device.

Snow Leopard adds Chinese handwriting on multi-touch trackpads which seems to work pretty nicely (not being a Chinese speaker/writer I dunno first hand). The trackpad area isn't much bigger than the iPhone.

estroke and finger do so on the iPhone/iPod Touch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKJYHr9pW28

Shows a fairly complex character input at the very end using finger input. Graffiti like input would be similar in complexity. No iPhone sized device will really let you write long enough to make real handwriting recognition work very well (when it works at all). You'd want to be newton sized even for a stylus based system.

Here's a demo of the pogo stylus with the iphone. So much for the "one way" comment from "iGenius". If you want a stylus you can have one.

http://whatseas.blogspot.com/2009/09...character.html

http://thisfinger.com/support/snow-l...ll-need-finger

It's like $15. I'd probably buy one for a tablet that was capacitance touch based if it wasn't included.
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yeah. Hey fanboys, you like a physical keyboard on your laptops, and yet you're OK with not having one on your phone. Hypocrites!

Uh...one is for content creation and the other for content consumption. How is this hard for anyone to understand? For a larger device (newton or above) data creation is an important aspect of usability. In terms of creating content the newton was better than the iphone.

For a smartphone the primary desire is content display and navigation. Then the keyboard is just more weight and either takes up screen space or is a slidey thing that might break. The most I do on an iPhone is a quick draft for yelp or an email or a tweet.

Maybe if there was a foleo/redfly type thing for the iphone I'd use it for data input (yes, the redfly can connect to the iPhone for video but not keyboard).
post #61 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Uh...one is for content creation and the other for content consumption. How is this hard for anyone to understand? For a larger device (newton or above) data creation is an important aspect of usability. In terms of creating content the newton was better than the iphone.

For a smartphone the primary desire is content display and navigation. Then the keyboard is just more weight and either takes up screen space or is a slidey thing that might break. The most I do on an iPhone is a quick draft for yelp or an email or a tweet.

Maybe if there was a foleo/redfly type thing for the iphone I'd use it for data input (yes, the redfly can connect to the iPhone for video but not keyboard).

Dear Mr. Vinea,

We have detected anomalies in your sarcasm detecting unit. Please recycle the power by unplugging the unit for 30 seconds.

Thanks
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #62 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Dear Mr. Vinea,

We have detected anomalies in your sarcasm detecting unit. Please recycle the power by unplugging the unit for 30 seconds.

Thanks

I was wondering. Yah, I've been operating in a foreign timezone. Everything is off by 5 hours in the wrong direction.
post #63 of 69
The accuracy the the handwriting with the finger for chinese characters looks nice and promising. I'm not impressed with the Pogo. I do not get the same results when using my pogo on the capacative screen of my HTC HD2. I definitely hope for apples sake it will not consider an option like the pogo as the standard voor pen-enabled inking in the iTablet! It would ruin the experience. I think they should pursue the direction of NTRIG with a tip pen enabled for a capacative screen. I also wish they would go this direction as it will open doors for others with capacative screens wishing to do some pen-abled inking on a capacative screen. On the HD2 there is certainly room on the screen to write more than one word. If the sensitivity is high enough, one could even write whole sentences. Now I am not suggesting the part of handwriting recognition. I'm now just talking about inking, because be it an iphone or an HD2, the state of this function on both is currently unnecessarily poor.
post #64 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wevenhuis View Post

I'm not impressed with the Pogo. I do not get the same results when using my pogo on the capacative screen of my HTC HD2. I definitely hope for apples sake it will not consider an option like the pogo as the standard voor pen-enabled inking in the iTablet! It would ruin the experience. I think they should pursue the direction of NTRIG with a tip pen enabled for a capacative screen.

I don't have a Pogo so I don't know. At a guess the electostatic stylus should work with other capacitive systems except for the click features. The NTRIG stuff does look good and cheaper than adding both a digitizer and touch screen. Not to mention ligher and thinner.

I'll have to find someone with the Dell 17" to play with it.
post #65 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

What do you eat with?

Some thing going serous here.
post #66 of 69
Snow leopard needs to support 3rd party pen tablets. Chinese input only works with SL and mulitouch trackpads. That leaves out the imac, mini, and mac pro. The flagship imac is less productive and does not have features parity with its notebooks. Yes, notebooks outsell desktop macs.

Finger based input is not the ideal solution for long documents. Imagine the fatigue! Couriers, post office and delivery people use a stylus pen. The pen is still mightier.

The best solution is a bluetooth keyboard with numeric pad and a multitouch/pen trackpad. If apple is serious about making inroads in china, then they must implement this.
post #67 of 69
The actual iPhone screen ensures touch resolution, which is said to be "more than one point per 1 square millimeter". The problem is that regular stylus is usually not a capacitor plate at all.

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
post #68 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Fu Guy View Post

Snow leopard needs to support 3rd party pen tablets. Chinese input only works with SL and mulitouch trackpads. That leaves out the imac, mini, and mac pro. The flagship imac is less productive and does not have features parity with its notebooks.

I hate to break the news to you, but the iMac is more productive than any notebook. With a real mouse the iMac is a great business computer. It gets stuff done.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #69 of 69
BTW, it's amazing, what gifted person could do with just rudimentary SketchBook app on iPhone. I'm now green with envy upon having watched that sketching work and having had no skills to reproduce all that.
Fancy those marvelous things, which artists will do with Tablet....

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Apple looks to improve pen-based input on tablet touchscreens