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Apple's iPhone captures 17% of worldwide smartphone market - Page 2

post #41 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You’d think after this much time with the iPhone people would look at UI, ease of use and ecosystem instead of thinking that features on a spec sheet are what sells phones.

I've come to think that there is a kind of user experience autism, endemic to tech enthusiasts, which renders them literally incapable of understanding what it is about the sum of an artfully integrated hardware, software and ecosystem that might appeal to people. Literally don't get it.

For such people it must seem as if matching or surpassing "features" and a few broad elements (touch screen, fast browser, availability of apps) gives the user everything they could possibly want .Any talk of why the iPhone provides a better, more satisfying experience is dismissed as Koolaid or fanboyism, with features and specs brandished as "proof" that other handsets are superior.

And, of course, success of a carefully designed product like the iPhone, even in the face of rivals that are "just as good or better", can only be the result of a mass delusion or marketing or both. Because sweating the details the way Apple does is just putting "form over function."

It's really a matter of art, as distasteful that term is to some people. If you can't intuit how integrated form is function, and how that might appeal in ways most people can't even articulate, you're in the position of a person with no aesthetic sense staring at a painting and figuring it's just a matter of getting a bigger canvas.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #42 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I've come to think that there is a kind of user experience autism, endemic to tech enthusiasts, which renders them literally incapable of understanding what it is about the sum of an artfully integrated hardware, software and ecosystem that might appeal to people. Literally don't get it.

For such people it must seem as if matching or surpassing "features" and a few broad elements (touch screen, fast browser, availability of apps) gives the user everything they could possibly want .Any talk of why the iPhone provides a better, more satisfying experience is dismissed as Koolaid or fanboyism, with features and specs brandished as "proof" that other handsets are superior.

And, of course, success of a carefully designed product like the iPhone, even in the face of rivals that are "just as good or better", can only be the result of a mass delusion or marketing or both. Because sweating the details the way Apple does is just putting "form over function."

It's really a matter of art, as distasteful that term is to some people. If you can't intuit how integrated form is function, and how that might appeal in ways most people can't even articulate, you're in the position of a person with no aesthetic sense staring at a painting and figuring it's just a matter of getting a bigger canvas.

Very well articulated. In fact, I wish I had written it. Nicely done.
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Unlike some I want everyone to be within 1% of each other. Competition breeds innovation. You might have heard that before.

Massive oversimplification, much?
You assume that close market share creates competition which in turn then drives innovation. While it is possible it is only one of many plausible causalities for innovation and less likely than many. it 's just silly to live off such bland aphorisms.

Many product markets have stable and relatively equal market shares where the competitors act more like a cartel - they are all fat and happy and like the status quo - most consumer goods fall in this category. Innovation there typically comes from the small guy or to counter the newcomer.

Innovation comes from many places and competition amongst equals is hardly the most productive one. New entrants/startups, leverage of ideas from outside a category, random visionaries are all more common. Big companies are generally good at incremental innovation/improvement, but rarely at the game changer. Apple has done it 3 times, Mac (popularized GUI), iPod, iPhone and Jobs has done it again with Pixar (destroyed traditional Disney animation). That is why he gets the props.

Apple came from nowhere with the iPod and iPhone and I doubt that RIM or Nokia or even HTC's market share have any impact on the schedule of Apple's innovation.
post #44 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Have you ever spoken to a blackberry user about their phone? There's no convincing them of anything better. That's not going away anytime soon.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Whatever comes along and "trumps" the iphone won't look anything like an iphone.

Have you spoken to one recently? I do every day. Most of my collegues have BBs and none of them love them. All know that there are many better phones out there (except for the BES capability). We need to separate need and like.

They mostly need them because they have become slaves to the BES. They are all really pleased with their upgrades because the BBs become a little less crap at the non-BES features each time - e.g. 8830 to Tour was a good leap but it is still an embarrassment in almost all other ways against the iPhone, Droid etc. and they know it.

One just traded his BB for a droid - loves it. A few others pack BB and iPhone and leave the BB as a purely work brick. Anyone who 'loves' their BB hasn't had their friends do the iPhone/Android comparison yet - a smaller and smaller crowd these days.

The corporate slave market is not enough the keep RIM in a leading position. Globally, the corporate market is far smaller than the consumer one, apparently just as, if not more, price conscious and has a slower upgrade cycle than consumers. Thank god for young girls with nails too long to use a virtual keyboard for texting - they are RIM's other major segment. Talk to them about app envy.
post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Have you spoken to one recently? I do every day. Most of my collegues have BBs and none of them love them. All know that there are many better phones out there (except for the BES capability). We need to separate need and like.

They mostly need them because they have become slaves to the BES. They are all really pleased with their upgrades because the BBs become a little less crap at the non-BES features each time - e.g. 8830 to Tour was a good leap but it is still an embarrassment in almost all other ways against the iPhone, Droid etc. and they know it.

One just traded his BB for a droid - loves it. A few others pack BB and iPhone and leave the BB as a purely work brick. Anyone who 'loves' their BB hasn't had their friends do the iPhone/Android comparison yet - a smaller and smaller crowd these days.

The corporate slave market is not enough the keep RIM in a leading position. Globally, the corporate market is far smaller than the consumer one, apparently just as, if not more, price conscious and has a slower upgrade cycle than consumers. Thank god for young girls with nails too long to use a virtual keyboard for texting - they are RIM's other major segment. Talk to them about app envy.

Really? My bold dances circles around iPhones, the only model in the same leauge as my phone is the 3gs. What's really nice is I get push email on all my email accounts, it's quite amazing and my keyboard blows the iPhone out the water.

Oh and if your going to act like you know what your talking about, you should know well over half of RIMs subscribers are BIS users.

Oh and if RIM caters to girls with nails, Apple must cater to whom, the wannabe cool kids of starbucks?

Quadra why post two of the same articles? RIM isn't going to be bought by anyone, sorry but analyst speculation is just that...speculation
post #46 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Unlike some, I want some folks to vanish from this Forum.

Ain't going to happen either!

You made me almost choke to death on my coffee! LMAO
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Right, I've been doing some digging and it's become evident that Gartner are a bunch of idiots.

Here is Apple's official financial report for calendar period Q3 2008 (Apple's financial Q4 2008).

Apple officially sold 6.9mil iPhones in Q3 2008, a figure backed up by Canalys. Gartner's figure of 4.7 mil is total nonsense and invalidates their entire report.

Apple's growth was 6-7% rather than nearly 50%. Still a very good figure considering the market conditions and the evolutionary upgrade from the 3G to the 3GS.

"Quarterly iPhone units sold were 6,892,000 compared to 1,119,000 in the year-ago-quarter. " ... quote taken from your link. Isolating iPhone sales shows approx. 600% increase, YOY quarterly sales. .... not too shabby! Any other mobile phone company do that?
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Might have something to do with some natural (or socially ingained) hesitation to express adulation over a single company, over an extended period of time. It's somehow wrong to enjoy tech from the same company at the expense of enjoying it from other companies.

Now if only I actually liked the crap that every other tech company produces . . .

Oh well.

I think it has more to do with trying to justify their poor, IMHO, choice of choosing an Apple competitor, usually, but not always, based on price. If somehow they can convince the world that they're right then they would not be thought of as having made a poor choice. That's why they wail on an Apple fansite, not a M$ website.... can't really call it "penis envy", since it was done by choice ..... maybe just plain old MacEnvy will suffice.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

"Quarterly iPhone units sold were 6,892,000 compared to 1,119,000 in the year-ago-quarter. " ... quote taken from your link. Isolating iPhone sales shows approx. 600% increase, YOY quarterly sales. .... not too shabby! Any other mobile phone company do that?

So they just launched the Droid phone, sales went from 0 a year ago to 100,000 --- that's an infinite percentage growth.
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

RIM isn't going to be bought by anyone, sorry but analyst speculation is just that...speculation


Why on earth would Apple even want Rim? If Apple wanted to"give away profits" to "gain marketshare" they could easily do that with iPhone.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #51 of 62
What's the likelihood that Droid3 sales will increase 600% year over year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

So they just launched the Droid phone, sales went from 0 a year ago to 100,000 --- that's an infinite percentage growth.
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

So they just launched the Droid phone, sales went from 0 a year ago to 100,000 --- that's an infinite percentage growth.

So you're just arguing to be arguing?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

So they just launched the Droid phone, sales went from 0 a year ago to 100,000 --- that's an infinite percentage growth.

A large number, to be sure, but not "infinite" ... still a "dumb" comparison ... hope you weren't being serious, as that would make you "dumb" as well.
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #54 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What's the likelihood that Droid3 sales will increase 600% year over year?

It can happen very easily --- Verizon/Motorola just have to mismanage their next generation Droid rollout, causing Verizon to run out their original Droid phone inventory in a quarter sometime next year --- right before they introduce the next generation of Droid phones.

That 600% increase was an Apple mistake --- they "ran out" of previous generation of iphone for 2 months until the new generation of iphone was launched.
post #55 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

That 600% increase was an Apple mistake --- they "ran out" of previous generation of iphone for 2 months until the new generation of iphone was launched.

Funny how that doesn't show up in YOY profits
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
Reply
See, in the record business, you can show someone your song, and they don’t copy it. In the tech business, you show somebody your idea, and they steal it. (Jimmy Iovine)
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post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Funny how that doesn't show up in YOY profits

Subscriber accounting smooths out the huge swings in profits.
post #57 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Really? My bold dances circles around iPhones, the only model in the same leauge as my phone is the 3gs. What's really nice is I get push email on all my email accounts, it's quite amazing and my keyboard blows the iPhone out the water.

Oh and if your going to act like you know what your talking about, you should know well over half of RIMs subscribers are BIS users.

Oh and if RIM caters to girls with nails, Apple must cater to whom, the wannabe cool kids of starbucks?

Quadra why post two of the same articles? RIM isn't going to be bought by anyone, sorry but analyst speculation is just that...speculation

Your opinion. Nothing more. I've used a Bold and a Tour and I found them lame, clumsy and poorly designed. My opinion. To praise email and the keyboard aon a BB is pointlessly tautologous. They are the only things it does well - really well. That said, I can whip my colleagues in a typing race between their BBs and my 3GS. All depends on practice and what you are comfortable with.
Don't complain about the girls with nails they are a real market - I got that from the neighbor's teenagers - the horse's mouth.
Apple caters to everyone else - the hip, the nerdy and most points in between.
Keep enjoying your Bold - it would be a double whammy - lame phone on lame net, but I doubt you use that much bandwidth natively (non-tethering) on it anyway.
post #58 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Hehe . . .

Let's put it in perspective for a moment.

Although Nokia is in a slide, it still has 30%+ share. Let's not even consider Nokia. They don't even have much of a US presence. Nokia sells a lot of cheap devices, and cheap and plentiful tend to MOVE. So that's Nokia.

Let's give the crown to RIM, if only the US crown.

The iPhone is within about 3% of RIM, achieved in only two years, with one device (counting the 3G), and demand is only increasing (with what is guaranteed to be a successful "4G" iPhone in the works), with RIM having absolutely nothing to show in the way of capability, content, UI, that the iPhone has, and with business beginning to take a more serious look at the iPhone.

There is only ONE real growth prospect here . . . and it doesn't include 7 more versions of the same Bold/Pearl we've seen for the past two years.

Dude why be such a fan boy? Address, don't dismiss. You don't dismiss the current market leader even if it is declining. You complaing that Blackberry basically does yearly updates to the Bold and Pearl yet what does Apple do with the iPhone?

Couldn't it be about more than just UI considering that RIM has oh... security, multitasking decent enough software development, has quickly filled the holes in their overall model (app store, 5.0 software, dev conference shows them adding API's for perceived problems, etc.)

If we want to be helpful to Apple, you have to view reality and reality says that Apple had easy growth because there was every market to go into and grab some sales. There really aren't anymore new and easy markets to plow into. Think about how easy it is for RIM to stay ahead when they can just design more than one handset and can sit all alone with no Apple when addressing the 89 million customers at Verizon for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yeah, but that's the problem, isn't it? Outside of "What Apple did plus 'features' plus lower cost'", where is the innovation in the tech industry that will bring us this new device that rethinks the fundamentals?

It's been more than two years since the iPhone debuted, and every credible competitor to date has simply been variations on that theme, along with trumpeted bullet points like higher mega-pixel cameras with flash or removable batteries or higher res screens, etc.

Because that's how the tech industry works, largely. They don't do fundamental innovation, they do gimmicks and specs as added value, in an effort to eke out some mind share.

Fundamental innovation means vision, big picture thinking, and a long range plan that doesn't include letting your marketing and engineering departments call the shots. It means asking "what are people wanting to do, and what is the best, most satisfying way for them to do that?" before you ask "can we make the animation between screens look cooler for the ads?" or "can we make some spec have a higher number to beat the competition with?"

I honestly don't see a lot of big picture thinking in the tech industry at large, and it sucks because that would mean more better products and fewer absolutely inexcusable, borderline unusable pieces of crap, flash in the pan dead ends, and "awesome" products that nobody in their right mind would bother to figure out how to use.

Apple is the R&D outfit for the industry by default, not because they're good or noble or likable, but because they have a singular maniac at the helm that asks the right questions, and demands the right answers. Sony used to have some of that, but they got too unfocused and apparently lost the ability to say no to the engineers. Red, the digital camera people, have it in spades, but in an extremely narrow niche market. Interestingly, they also have a singular maniac at the helm.

For better or worse, that makes it unlikely that anyone else with the deep pockets to fund the kind of major rollout necessary to compete with the iPhone is going to do anything more than doodle in Apple's margins. Not to say that they won't have a lot of success with that, there's a lot of reasons for preferring a pretty good copy over the original if the copiers are clever and keep an eye on the bottom line. But they're not going to be a startling rethink of the possibilities, because the people who should be making such products simply aren't designed to take that kind of risk.

Apple's vision has faltered and had to have been altered considerably. They wanted a model where the cell company had nothing to do with the phone. That hasn't happened. They bowed down and added sms/mms. Apple has "innovated" along the very lines you dismiss, better radio chips, better battery, screen coating, high mp camera. All Apple has lucked into was realizing that consumers would spend as much on a smartphone as business would. Apple realized there were loads of prosumers in the cell market and since that is the domain of their computers, they probably had a leg up in figuring it out. However Apple hasn't had much luck growing past that point in computers. The competitors are still moving very good numbers and most are filling those holes quickly if they haven't already. The Apple "eco-system" has already been duplicated by RIM pretty well, and while Android is still a bit behind, I really would worry because Google isn't exactly known for sitting still.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

I swear i always seem to see the same arguments, Apple is crushing RIM and Nintendo, yet no one can seem to be logical in any discussion regarding this.

RIM has just unveiled Flash and OpenGL (please note, as a Blackberry Bold user im pretty fucking irate at RIM right now, only the Storm 2 and Curve 8530 (both CDMA VZW devices) are "capable" of running OpenGL atm) and i have to say after looking at the videos, the gap between the iphone is coming to a close and fast. New ways to customize the devices and theme builders as well as better dev tools (finally...) mean Blackberry apps wont look so archaic anymore. With the new Webkit browser comes better rendering of HTML emails as well, so RIM has shut down many selling points of the iphone now. BES blows everything out the water, so unless your a small company or security and convenience dont matter to you then the iphone works for you in enterprise (assuming every employee you have has AT&T)!

The only thing the iphone will have going for it is, 100k apps (of which 95%+ suck) and iTunes (which BB are capable of syncing with already).

Right now the iPhones features over competitors are dying and fast and they are still living off the hype (like the Wii was), unless the 4G pulls out some serious new features i can see people passing on the next iteration just like quite a few people i know have done for the 3GS

When you go to some places that are not exclusively about Apple, I see many of the points you have mentioned. I also just find it odd that people will treat the iPhone as a platform but no competitor will be treated that way. Thus people will see Droid sell 100,000 phones and treat that in isolation instead of wanting to add how many phones HTC Droid Eris sold, the MyTouch, etc. Hell they won't even lump Milestone and Droid numbers together. I really love Apple products but I'm not going to ignore reality either.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #59 of 62
Come on Samab. Looking at the current enthusiasm for the Droid. What evidence is there that people would be enthusiastic about Droid 2?

It doesn't matter if Apple ran out of the original iPhone. These numbers show there was extreme demand for sales of the newest model to grow by such a large percentage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

It can happen very easily --- Verizon/Motorola just have to mismanage their next generation Droid rollout, causing Verizon to run out their original Droid phone inventory in a quarter sometime next year --- right before they introduce the next generation of Droid phones.

That 600% increase was an Apple mistake --- they "ran out" of previous generation of iphone for 2 months until the new generation of iphone was launched.
post #60 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Come on Samab. Looking at the current enthusiasm for the Droid. What evidence is there that people would be enthusiastic about Droid 2?

It doesn't matter if Apple ran out of the original iPhone. These numbers show there was extreme demand for sales of the newest model to grow by such a large percentage.

No, the 600% increase is an artificial percentage. And artificially Verizon/Motorola can produce the same numbers --- Motorola is known to be a basketcase and very likely to mess up the next gen Droid launch.

Without such artificial growth rate, Apple still grows faster than RIM. I don't know why Apple fanbois have to rely on artificial growth rate to win an argument.
post #61 of 62
Please enlighten us about what was artificial about the growth rate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

No, the 600% increase is an artificial percentage. And artificially Verizon/Motorola can produce the same numbers --- Motorola is known to be a basketcase and very likely to mess up the next gen Droid launch.

Without such artificial growth rate, Apple still grows faster than RIM. I don't know why Apple fanbois have to rely on artificial growth rate to win an argument.
post #62 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Please enlighten us about what was artificial about the growth rate?

If you use the March 2008 quarter sales number (instead of the June 2008 quarter) and compare it with June 2009 quarter, the growth would have been much lower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IP...er_quarter.svg

It would still grow at a very fast fast rate --- 1.7 million to 5.2 million.

Somehow, for a Apple fanboi --- a normalized 300% growth rate is not enough, they have to rely of artificial shortage of iphone to make it look like it really grew at 600%.
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