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Apple tablet speculation: high-end graphics, several models - Page 5

post #161 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You may not like what theyve done because you still want to use a 6 year old iPod that is well past its battery life expectancy and dont want to get a new battery, but that is your personal issue, not an issue with Apple doing the things I stated in regards to HW.

My iPod would have been unusable as of several years ago had I not done a battery replacement myself. Which, I might add, involved having to remove nearly 2mm worth of motherboard and removing a fair percentage of the insulation around the battery in order to get it to fit.
post #162 of 173
1st batch is gonna be ok? .. hahaha
post #163 of 173
If it can run a full version of OS X support, supports stylus AND multi-touch inputs, as allows me to run Bootcamp/Parallels/etc, I will buy one and get rid of my thinkpad X61 tablet PC. I need a tablet pc to input Japanese kanji, but I really don't need the keyboard all the time. Apple, I hope you are listening and don't produce just an oversized iPod Touch...Running the iPhone/Touch OS won't cut it. If that happens, it will be time to buy a Modbook.
post #164 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Ingersol View Post

"Several different models"?
When's the last time Apple debuted a new product in 'several different models'?


Apple will likely figure that whatever iSteve wants is pretty much perfect for just about everybody. Their motto should be "Steve's way, or the highway".
post #165 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

If it can run a full version of OS X support, supports stylus AND multi-touch inputs, as allows me to run Bootcamp/Parallels/etc, I will buy one and get rid of my thinkpad X61 tablet PC. ...

So you won't be getting one then.
post #166 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

If it can run a full version of OS X support, supports stylus AND multi-touch inputs, as allows me to run Bootcamp/Parallels/etc, I will buy one and get rid of my thinkpad X61 tablet PC. I need a tablet pc to input Japanese kanji, but I really don't need the keyboard all the time. Apple, I hope you are listening and don't produce just an oversized iPod Touch...Running the iPhone/Touch OS won't cut it. If that happens, it will be time to buy a Modbook.

I don't think your needs are typical, and you didn't really state why you actually needed OSX. Although it sounds like you just want access to every Mac and Windows program ever made. Virtually all of those programs will not be designed for touchscreen input and many would feel absolutely clunky on a tablet.

Archos currently makes the tablet closest to what you want in the Archos9 retailing for $549, except it runs Windows 7 starter instead of OSX. There are a couple things to note here:

1. It runs Windows 7 starter edition, which hints at the performance limitations of the platform. An Apple tablet running OSX, but costing less than a Macbook would be subject to similar performance limitations. The OS and many of the programs are built for a more powerful platform, and memory intensive programs and multitasking could bog it down. Netbooks are subject to similar limitations, but having not used one, I can't say how bad it is for sure, but I'm sure I would be able to bring one to a halt if I tried to. iPhone OS and its applications are on the other hand designed for lower powered devices, and it is almost a given that a tablet would receive its own section in the app store with apps optimized specifically for the tablet hardware. Multitasking, once enabled in iPhone OS, would also work better than with OSX due to the properly optimized OS and Apps.

2. It comes with an optical trackpoint and left and right click buttons to replicate a mouse or a trackpad. This points to Archos dissatisfaction with Windows 7 as a touch platform despite all the enhancements Microsoft has added. Furthermore, Apples aesthetic design choices make similar pointing device enhancements unlikely which would mean that that there would be no fall back to a traditional pointing device if the touchscreen was too clunky to use in certain situations (although I guess they could create a virtual trackpad in addition to a virtual keyboard, perhaps in the middle of a split keyboard... that still would not be ideal). iPhone OS and its apps are optimized for touch, so you wouldn't run into these usability problems.

The desire to run OSX apps instead of iPhone OS apps designed for a tablet is short sighted in my opinion. If there is sufficient demand for a tablet app not available on the app store, someone will create it, and when they do it will be optimized for touch input and the tablets hardware. My only wish would be somewhat looser restrictions on the app store. Lastly the iPhone OS installed user base is actually larger than the OSX user base, that combined with the popularity of the App store makes it a more attractive target for developers. The tablet would get more love from developers if it ran some form of iPhone OS.
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The key to enjoying these forums: User CP -> Edit Ignore List
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post #167 of 173
Mac OS X is a desktop/notebook OS and every application expect the user to have a keyboard a pointing device and full screen.

If you want to run Mac OS X on the small format computer. Apple already make a product called the MacBook Air. It's pretty good.

We have had tablet computers for 10 years now. And our experience shows us that tablet computers are terrible at running desktop apps. Because regular desktop applications are not designed to be used that way.

If you take up screen space with an on-screen virtual keyboard, things get even worse.

Almost every Mac application ever written will simply suck running on a device like this. Which is why every tablet computer created to date has sold in Newton-like quantities.

The iPhone demonstrates very clearly that a radically different form-factor needs a purpose-built user interface.

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.

C.
post #168 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.

A good analogy. Many are primed for rejecting whatever Apple comes up with by creating their own arbitrary criteria for technical specs, the OS it will run, and how much it will cost. People who have specific technical expectations are always going to be disappointed no matter what Apple does. We should all know by now that Apple is not focused on the beanie-copter crowd. Their preemptive disappointment should be taken with a grain of salt, with the knowledge that Apple's success with this product will not be a function of their approval (which most of them will never give anyway).
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #169 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #170 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I don't think your needs are typical, and you didn't really state why you actually needed OSX. Although it sounds like you just want access to every Mac and Windows program ever made. Virtually all of those programs will not be designed for touchscreen input and many would feel absolutely clunky on a tablet.

Archos currently makes the tablet closest to what you want in the Archos9 retailing for $549, except it runs Windows 7 starter instead of OSX. There are a couple things to note here:


The desire to run OSX apps instead of iPhone OS apps designed for a tablet is short sighted in my opinion. If there is sufficient demand for a tablet app not available on the app store, someone will create it, and when they do it will be optimized for touch input and the tablets hardware. My only wish would be somewhat looser restrictions on the app store. Lastly the iPhone OS installed user base is actually larger than the OSX user base, that combined with the popularity of the App store makes it a more attractive target for developers. The tablet would get more love from developers if it ran some form of iPhone OS.

Excellent points there. I would also say an iPhone OS device could also be cheaper and have longer battery life than a Mac OS X device, since it does not need as high performing components. In addition, the larger display and more powerful components of a tablet compared to an iPhone or iPod touch allows for a wider range of applications that may not have been suitable on an iPhone or iPod touch. I think we may see mobile versions of iLife and iWork on the tablet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

We have had tablet computers for 10 years now. And our experience shows us that tablet computers are terrible at running desktop apps. Because regular desktop applications are not designed to be used that way.

The iPhone demonstrates very clearly that a radically different form-factor needs a purpose-built user interface.

Exactly. Consider the iPod vs. the iPhone and iPod touch. Remember all those mockups of a touchscreen iPod with an iPod 5G GUI with virtual click wheel? Compare that to the iPhone GUI. There's a difference and it's due to, as you said, the form factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.

Awesome. My new signature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
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post #171 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb510 View Post

I really don't see why anyone continues to compare the "Apple Tablet" to netbooks... there really is no crossover.

The Tablet is sounding more and more like a media device (iPod/iPhone) and less and less like a computing device (MacBook). No one out there is buying netbooks to read the paper, or look at recipes in the kitchen, or read eBooks. Netbooks are computing devices, they have keyboards for a reason. Granted some are glorified DVD players for certain frequent flyers, but they are also email writers/readers for those same people, where as I don't see the Tablet being a highly functional email device.

Yes, the tablet will likely impact the Kindle/eBook market, although I suspect less than many believe because the content for the Tablet will be purchased through iTunes and have Apple premium pricing. Many will choose a platform with lower content cost (Kindle/Sony) elsewhere.


High content cost isn't how Apple has operated. It's Apple that has been pressuring record labels to hold back on running up prices for music. And if there's a more cost-conscious set-up than the App Store, I can't think of it.

Low-cost digital content is the very foundation of Apple's success with products like the iPod, the iPhone and the Touch. Why would Apple throw out that foundation when expanding into other media?


I do agree that comparisons with netbooks seem odd. After all, netbooks are all about cheap hardware rife with compromise. Apple hasn't played in that area ever and isn't about to start.
post #172 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

I think she's full of it. "Stunning resolution" is primarily about pixel density when talking about small devices, and I would say at most the tablet will sport an integrated mobile gpu of some grade. "High end" gpus are brick sized behemoths, and even the HD 4850s in the new iMacs require beefy heatsinks. Good luck stuffing one into a slim 10" tablet. I call BS on her statement.

Lets all remember Apple does have a 9.5% ownership of Imagination Technologies ( PowerVR ).
My guess is the "stunning new graphics" are going to be integrated like you say, specifically a SGX543MP4 ( 4 core 200MHz GPU ). It's backwards compatible with the iPhone powerVR chips ( both the 2G/3G and 3Gs ).

The CPU may be multi core too, since the multicore ARM Cortex-A5 has an attractive power ( work/watt) profile, and idle cores can be shut down. Same goes for the beefier A9. All of the compatible with the iPhone.

If the device is OS X compatible, it will also include iPhone/touch compatibility. The iPhone and the app store will immediately propel this device. Why would you release a mobile device that has no apps, and ignore the current apps?

You'll even be able to run them in a little window!

I don't have any sources, I'm just using my crystal ball. Last year about this time. I was hoping for a new ipod touch with 720p outputs and a harddrive. Oh well.
post #173 of 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Using your post as a segue, I wonder if Silver-zinc batteries will be viable for CE soon?

Good question, I think the Zinc -Air battery is more likely at this point. I experimented with this type of battery back in the 90's and it showed good potential. It had good energy density and was light weight. However, it's charging profile was very picky. A little too much voltage and it would destroy the bettery. A company called Evercell tried to market one for use in fishing boats, but it was never reliable enough to succeed. I did learn that ARTX is still working on the technology. They still sell a type of this battery to the mllitary because of it's long shelf life...
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