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Piper: Apple tablet no more than $700, launch timing irrelevant - Page 2

post #41 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

And it's going to stay that way until we vote out the liberal socialist sub-prime causing mess members of Congress who forced Freddie and Fannie in 2005 to get into the sub-prime market.

I hate to tell you this, because you seem so happy in your delusions, but George Bush was President beginning in January 2001 (until 2009), and the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress from 1994 through 2006.

Clinton economic officials certainly played their part in the late 90s, especially be going along with (Republican) Senator Phil Gramm's de-regulation bill, but the "sub-prime causing mess members of Congress who forced Freddie and Fannie in 2005 to get into the sub-prime market" were Republicans.

You know them - they're the ones fighting against a government option in health care for the rest of us, while they happily accept the best health insurance program in the country, which is government-run. I don't see any of them refusing to take their government-run health insurance. They want the best program for themselves, while giving the rest of us squat.
post #42 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What are you talking about? Microsoft is a software company. Why would he be even concerned with such a niche product? Apple doesn't compete with Microsoft and vice versa no matter what Justin Long and the unholy three on AI tell you- the are two totally different markets.

Right... Apple doesn't make ANY software... certainly not an OS, that might compete with Microsoft's Windows. Or any sort of suite of productivity apps, that might compete with Microsoft's Office. Apple doesn't make a browser, that would compete with Microsoft's Explorer... shall we go on?

No, they are not identical companies... and there are areas where they don't compete... but there are many where they DO compete. And they are certainly competing for the same customers.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #43 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

So $179 is to $700 as $480 is to $1,876. Less subsidy - it should cost you $1,500 to $1,600 with a 2 year contract.

6000 pointless posts. Not sure how you've managed to do it. Not sure where they suggested that Apple would be keeping the same margins.

Archos suggests that $700 for an Apple tablet is possible (although I'm expecting something in the $800 - $900 range). Analysts also said that premium PC's wouldn't sell in a recession, so I question the validity of their it wont sell if it costs more than $700 suggestion.
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post #44 of 93
The tablet can stand on its own. In business and the public sector (hospitals, postal services), data gathering, education, art etc .... there will be significant interest. If a small new US company ( http://litl.com/ ) has the guts and ingenuity to introduce a laptop/easel mode computer, with a brand new OS, just for family use, and they believe they have a strong market; you can be sure that an iTablet will create a strong following since it will run a vast range of low-cost apps without screen size limitations. If there are 5 inch screens sporting 1024 x 768 resolution, imagine what Apple might achieve on a 9-10 inch display.
post #45 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

While I don't think Balmer is pulling out any non existent hairs on his head. It was clearly in reference to the Courier concept, so the comment was quite relevant. The Xbox, Zune and others also put Microsoft in the CE devices market, and if they don't care about niche markets, why does the ZuneHD exist? It is essentially a dedicated PMP with some additional features tacked on at a time when the dedicated PMP is being relegated to niche status.

The ZUne HD exists as a responce obviously to iPods because APple was infiltrating the Windows world by creating iTunes for PC and then locking those Windows users into Apple's ecosystem. Many Windows iPod users I've know have hated iTunes and the whole Apple ecosystem concept of controlling their device and music. Remember only recently has Apple removed DRM and I think the Zune may have been a response to that and other reasons.
post #46 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

6000 pointless posts. Not sure how you've managed to do it. Not sure where they suggested that Apple would be keeping the same margins.

Archos suggests that $700 for an Apple tablet is possible (although I'm expecting something in the $800 - $900 range). Analysts also said that premium PC's wouldn't sell in a recession, so I question the validity of their it wont sell if it costs more than $700 suggestion.

Well then do they deny they wouldn't keep the same margins- NO.
And why do you respond to pointless posts then.
Again you fail to understand that my iPhone 32 GB cost $700. Why can't you understand that? No way is this device going to sell for that unless its subsidized.
post #47 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

You think these rumors are getting you crazy...

Just think of what is going on over at Microsoft...

I bet Steve Ballmer would be pulling the hair out of his head! If he had any...


there are already tablets out there based on MS Windows
post #48 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

So if it sold for $700 or less, that would significanly reduce its potential sales?

How about, "a sale price of less than $700 would significanty increase its potential sales"?

I was just pointing out that without the "no," the first paragraph reads with the exact opposite meaning to the headline. If the headline is correct, the paragraph is wrong, and vice versa.

It's a slight grammatical mistake dammit! And I'm going to fill pages and pages with my rage over it until it's corrected!

Edit: it's already changed and my comments make no sense now.
post #49 of 93
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Blah, blah, blah

You seriously need your medications adjusted.
post #50 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

"Assuming the tablet is 3x the size of the iPod touch implies a bill of materials for the tablet of around $480."

An odd assumption to make.

I scratched my head on that one, too. Who couldnt be an analyst if that is the level of thought that goes into pricing products.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Having an iPhone, there is no way in god's green earth that I would pop for another 3G contract with any carrier. In addition, I don't see this as a device that I use for my 24/7 connetivity. That's what my iPhone is for. Wifi on the device will be just fine, and I'll pocket the extra $1K in carrier profit, thank you. More than makes up for a few hundred dollars of unsubsidized price.

Hopefully you can tether it to your phone via USB or BT. If they do get with publishers Apple may be able to go the Amazon route and make basic carrier connectivity part of the sale of the device at no additional charge to the customer.This is a very convenient service on the KIndle. If you wanted full internet access you could pay separately for it or use WiFI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

there are already tablets out there based on MS Windows

MS will be watching. Windows for tablets is just that, a desktop OS installed on a tablet. Just as they are redesigned WinCE after the iPhone hit to work better on a small device with fingers as the primary input instead of a stylus, they will surely redesign Win7 to be more effective in a tablet environment. If a moribund Apple can grab that much of the PMP market which seemed successful at the time, and then grab the lions share of sales while having the flagship device while redefining a well entrenched smartphone market, both times pushing out MS, then MS will very much not want the failed tablet market to be lost when they know that an integrated HW and SW package with services are Apples game.
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post #51 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Well then do they deny they wouldn't keep the same margins- NO.
And why do you respond to pointless posts then.
Again you fail to understand that my iPhone 32 GB cost $700. Why can't you understand that? No way is this device going to sell for that unless its subsidized.

I provided additional insight after responding to your pointless post. I linked you a 9" tablet pc running Windows 7 that cost $549. It is probably as close to what an Apple tablet would be specs wise as you can find on the market today. The cost to purchase your iPhone is largely irrelevant if the markup is anything like iFixit suggests. It simply becomes a question of what the market will bear. That question will have to be answered again for a tablet device. If it did cost $700, no one would suggest that the iPhone cost the same or more than the tablet because the generally recognized price of the iPhone is the subsidized one.

It is possible that the tablet could be $700 only when subsidized, I suggested in my last post that I thought the unsubsidized price would be higher, but $700 unsubsidized is also within the realm of possibility as I have already shown.
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post #52 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

there are already tablets out there based on MS Windows

Just like there are phones out there based on Windows Mobile.

Whatever Apple releases, will wipe the floor with what exists currently in that segment.
post #53 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Just like there are phones out there based on Windows Mobile.

Whatever Apple releases, will wipe the floor with what exists currently in that segment.

That does seem likely. Apple has conquered in areas that seemed established with good fusing of HW and SW. The tablet market has had none of that. Apple could easily take this market without even trying by getting a few services working from the start. The OS is the easy part as they have already done a much more difficult job of making a desktop OS fit into a PMP.
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post #54 of 93
Nice to see that Gene Munster is now a psychic.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #55 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

I provided additional insight after responding to your pointless post. I linked you a 9" tablet pc running Windows 7 that cost $549. It is probably as close to what an Apple tablet would be specs wise as you can find on the market today. The cost to purchase your iPhone is largely irrelevant if the markup is anything like iFixit suggests. It simply becomes a question of what the market will bear. That question will have to be answered again for a tablet device. If it did cost $700, no one would suggest that the iPhone cost the same or more than the tablet because the generally recognized price of the iPhone is the subsidized one.

It is possible that the tablet could be $700 only when subsidized, I suggested in my last post that I thought the unsubsidized price would be higher, but $700 unsubsidized is also within the realm of possibility as I have already shown.

Sounds then like your saying the iPhone is overpriced.
post #56 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig View Post

"Assuming the tablet is 3x the size of the iPod touch implies a bill of materials for the tablet of around $480."

An odd assumption to make.

Miniaturisation adds cost. A tablet is "de-miniaturising" the iPod Touch.

According to who? So a Mac Pro should be even cheaper then? It's all relative. I do agree it is an odd assumption to make however. The tablet could included a hefty processor for its size, and a 128GB SSD. If it does then these things effect cost, and so does an OLED display for that matter. I'm not buying into the $500 cost for each display though, if you order a few million of these and give a company $500M, that $500 becomes $300 very quickly.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #57 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Nice to see that Gene Munster is now a psychic.

He has always been, he only found out now though
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #58 of 93
Because it seems a job any idiot can do.

Read some websites, and then make stupid, baseless predictions about technology.

Heck, I think I *am* an analyst!

C.
post #59 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Because it seems a job any idiot can do.

Read some websites, and then make stupid, baseless predictions about technology.

Heck, I think I *am* an analyst!

C.

There's a difference between an analyst and a good analysts. It's like how does one become a golfer, you just pick up a club, but how does one become a good golfer? That's more to do with hard work, training + natural talent. I'm inclined to think being a good analyst is something that either comes naturally to you, or you'll always suck like most of them.
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #60 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

According to who? So a Mac Pro should be even cheaper then? It's all relative.

Psyhics. Any way you slice it the iPhone is more expensive than the Mac Pro in terms of quantifiable things like power or weight to cost. Look at the small form factor low voltage C2Ds that Intel sells. They are slower than than the normal chips but cost more. A part of that is economy of scale since these niche chips don't get made in the same bulk as the other chips but most or it is the cost of miniaturization.
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post #61 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Psyhics. Any way you slice it the iPhone is more expensive than the Mac Pro in terms of quantifiable things like power or weight to cost.

But in terms of how much the check is made out for, the Mac Pro costs more. It's all relative, generally.
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #62 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Sounds then like your saying the iPhone is overpriced.

Way to avoid the meat of the argument. The unsubsidized iPhone seems overpriced based on ifixits numbers. In reality though, you paid $700 for it and love it, which means it was worth it to you. Therefore it wasn't overpriced in your eyes (if it was, why did you buy it?). I love my iPhone and would also pay $700 for it without a contract, so it isn't overpriced in my eyes either.

Don't confuse higher than normal margin with overpriced.
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post #63 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I don't think that's what he meant. I think what he meant is that the Tablet is not yet factored into Apple's stock price. So if it launches later than expected, it won't negatively impact the stock.

Right, that's what he meant -- I just wonder if it's true. The markets are sucking fumes half the time, so even rumored delays of unannounced and completely speculative products can have a negative impact on the stock price, in the short run anyway. Part of AAPL's valuation is the wish factor -- the markets expect Steve to continue pulling rabbits out of his hat.
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post #64 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I would imagine there is some sort of cross-subsidy for those who own both?

And then we start bumping up against conflicting rumors that this might be offered to another carrier. I can imagine the insurrection that would come if Apple tied it to AT&T, with people howling it forces them to stay with the carrier and they wanted to bolt (presuming exclusivity ends 6-2010), and I can imagine people howling if it was offered to Verizon when AT&T still had the iPhone. If indeed the rumors are true that the rumored tablet's previously rumored early-2010 intro has been pushed beck, then perhaps it's so that the contracts can be unified. I guess we'll know in about 6 years, when the tablet's finally released
post #65 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Way to avoid the meat of the argument. The unsubsidized iPhone seems overpriced based on ifixits numbers. In reality though, you paid $700 for it and love it, which means it was worth it to you. Therefore it wasn't overpriced in your eyes (if it was, why did you buy it?). I love my iPhone and would also pay $700 for it without a contract, so it isn't overpriced in my eyes either.

Don't confuse higher than normal margin with overpriced.

I love it and bought it because it has what I wanted and need and thought it had a much better cost/ benefit ration than the original or 2nd gen. Having said that, I would have bought it just the same with a big broad grin on my face for $400.
post #66 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Nice to see that Gene Munster is now a psychic.

More like psychotic.
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post #67 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I love it and bought it because it has what I wanted and need and thought it had a much better cost/ benefit ration than the original or 2nd gen. Having said that, I would have bought it just the same with a big broad grin on my face for $400.

Well obviously

I'd rather have stuff given to me for free. That doesn't make stuff that isn't free overpriced.
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post #68 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

What are you talking about? Microsoft is a software company. Why would he be even concerned with such a niche product? Apple doesn't compete with Microsoft and vice versa no matter what Justin Long and the unholy three on AI tell you- the are two totally different markets.


For a company who doesn't compete with Apple, they sure made a strange choice to spend their money on those laptop hunter adds, that were targeted at Apple. You know TechDud, you should work for M$ to guide Ballmer on the right path. Who knows .... maybe two fools do make it right.
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post #69 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

For a company who doesn't compete with Apple, they sure made a strange choice to spend their money on those laptop hunter adds, that were targeted at Apple. You know TechDud, you should work for M$ to guide Ballmer on the right path. Who knows .... maybe two fools do make it right.

Speaking of desperation:

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.ph..._numbers_miss/
post #70 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

We don't want no stinking tablet!

Speak for yourself, I (and many, many others) look forward to an Apple tablet-esque device! ;^p

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

When the government starts raising the property taxes, expect the rents to go up and tent cities to pop up like it is already happening in California.

iTent...?!?
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post #71 of 93
Telling us what price the market will bear, when no-one knows for sure if it exists, nor what it will do if it does exist. What a load of utter bollocks.
post #72 of 93
I gave in after getting tired of all the rumor mongering. I bought a Modbook. Now I can do all my drawing, run Windows 7 for the handwriting recognition, and just use it as my standard computer with a wireless mouse and keyboard.

I have a bad feeling that Apple is truly going to mess this up and just build a multi-touch ONLY iPod Touch that is just larger in size. No true OS X/ Windows 7, no stylus support, etc. I hope I am wrong...but I guess we will see in about a year.
post #73 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I gave in after getting tired of all the rumor mongering. I bought a Modbook. Now I can do all my drawing, run Windows 7 for the handwriting recognition, and just use it as my standard computer with a wireless mouse and keyboard.

I have a bad feeling that Apple is truly going to mess this up and just build a multi-touch ONLY iPod Touch that is just larger in size. No true OS X/ Windows 7, no stylus support, etc. I hope I am wrong...but I guess we will see in about a year.

Not a good idea to bet against Apple. But to each their own. Come mid-next year we'll see your mobbook on ebay.
post #74 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Not a good idea to bet against Apple. But to each their own. Come mid-next year we'll see your mobbook on ebay.

Not true- I bet on Apple 3 years ago with the Apple TV and lost. It deserves a one way ticket to the Land of the Misfit Toys. Even you bought the WD instead- which was against the ATV- no?
post #75 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by krispie View Post

Telling us what price the market will bear, when no-one knows for sure if it exists, nor what it will do if it does exist. What a load of utter bollocks.

Have to agree here.
post #76 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I have a bad feeling that Apple is truly going to mess this up and just build a multi-touch ONLY iPod Touch that is just larger in size. No true OS X/ Windows 7, no stylus support, etc.

I doubt it will be "just" a larger iPod touch. Just because it may run iPhone OS doesn't mean it will have the same features as an iPod touch / iPhone.
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Originally Posted by Carniphage

Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
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Putting Mac OS X on a tablet is like putting a steering wheel on a motorcycle.
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post #77 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

We don't want no stinking tablet!


Well there isn't enough people who have a need for such a device at this time.


What Apple is trying to find, is a need for the tablet and trying to get cooperation of others that will make a the iTablet a success.

A tablet is just a tablet without content or purpose.


Apple tends to complicate things as well. Any device they seem to make always require attention, a learning curve, backups or updates or something else to focus your attention. It's like a low grade version of Windows.

People just want a device that solves their problem and requires little or no attention.

Also people are looking for things to do that makes them or saves them money, not much into things that cost them money.

Although the recent jobs number is flat, this just means employers are keeping their staff for the holiday buying season where almost 50% of a years sales occurs, after that, come the new year, expect the unemployment rate to skyrocket.

It's going to be bad, real bad.

And it's going to stay that way until we vote out the liberal socialist sub-prime causing mess members of Congress who forced Freddie and Fannie in 2005 to get into the sub-prime market.

I'm sorry, you just can't give a house to people who can't afford it on the backs of everyone else.

The sub-prime mess started with California liberal companies and banks and reached into the Congress when it switched parties.

Sorry about the rant, but if people are paying too much or underwater on their mortgages, they certainly don't have as much to spend on luxuries or new computer toys like a iTablet.

When the government starts raising the property taxes, expect the rents to go up and tent cities to pop up like it is already happening in California.

This entire post was not helpful at all.

First of all, the tablet already has more content to put on it than any other device out there from movies, music, apps your own photos and videos, documents and soon probably magazines and newspapers. Regarding print subscriptions, they are expensive. If they can be delivered more efficiently, be read more easily, be a little cheaper and use no paper, they will be popular. Very popular. On that note, since we are moving to a "paperless" society what other devices (rumored or otherwise since all of them would be a rumor at this point) sound as good as Apples Tablet?

Secondly why bring politics into the discussion, not helpful at all.

Finally, tent cities? you have got to be kidding. I know things are bad and will get worse but those "cities" have been in cali since the 60's. They were there the whole time I lived in cali from 1995 to 2005. I live in NY where things are far worse than any other part of the country... Think we've never had homeless in NY before? Why exaggerate? Now we have some german kid thinking that America is "doomed". Well let me be the first to point out, that if America collapses, we'll be taking the rest of the world with us. China is no where near being a super power and they are the only ones with an economy and population large enough to even approach what the world would lose in America. Things aren't good by any means but stop with the "chicken little" BS. Clearly you read too much propaganda and have yet to learn to think for yourself.
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post #78 of 93
Dear Steve,

Here's a reason why this delay is meaningful to you.

As an owner of two 12" G4 Powerbooks, I'm not going to wait forever for a replacement.

I need a portable "real" computer. An iPhone does not cut it. I recently tried to live with an iPhone for 3 months, sans PB. All I was doing was using other people's computers, and brushing up on my Windows skills. I need strong apps, portability and real I/O, beyond what AirSharing can deliver.

"Upgrading" to one of your current offerings gives me a footprint that's at least 2" wider and weighs the same with the exception of the Air. Its been 5 years now and I don't think stepping backwards in time to have the pleasure of a larger portable computing device is a logical step to take.

I don't care what it costs, just give me a portable.

Apple User Since '84
post #79 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye Forget View Post

"Upgrading" to one of your current offerings gives me a footprint that's at least 2" wider and weighs the same with the exception of the Air. Its been 5 years now and I don't think stepping backwards in time to have the pleasure of a larger portable computing device is a logical step to take.

Gen an Air, you'll find out that 2" doesn't matter when you get used to it, it's an excellent computer and very light and portable. Go to a store, close the lid and pick one up and get a feel for it. I was an Air-hater and I still don't like the trap door port idea, but I love form-factor of this computer. I do also have a 24" iMac though, so it makes sense for me.
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post #80 of 93
Since the inclusion of a 3G radio is entirely speculative, why is the iPhone being tossed around as a pricing reference, instead of the Touch?

Apple makes and sells a very small touch based "tablet" with 64GB of memory, for $399.

If they can do that, and do it profitably, I would imagine that they could make something somewhat larger, somewhat more powerful, with some number of additional features, for something at or less than twice the price. Particularly since a bigger form factor ameliorates some of the costs associated with extreme miniaturization, as has been noted.

I realize it's always a bit dicey to make any assumptions at all about Apple pricing, but surely the Touch is the relevant product we should be referencing for hints as to what Apple might charge for a larger tablet?
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