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Hack re-enables Atom processor compatibility for Mac OS X 10.6.2 - Page 3

post #81 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

And exactly where do you buy a Mac 7- 10" form factor?
It's not for nothing that this size has been selling so well besides being cheap- people like the size, the portability which Apple has failed to offer. Apple tried to convince people that they really wanted thin as in MacBook Air - the public responded differently.

Everything I've read indicates people don't really "like" their netbooks. The majority have been bought on price.

Question... If Apple comes out with a netbook or tablet, will you change your stance on supporting the 'hackintosh' concept for netbooks? After all, your claim is based on Apple not currently offering such a product.
post #82 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I agree that outside the US, the legality is unclear, although EULAs have been upheld in most countries, so there's a good chance Apple will prevail. They might have to put 'UPGRADE' or parts of the EULA on the box in some countries, but even that isn't clear.

I wouldn't be sure about that, particularly in countries with Roman law rather than common law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

In the U.S., though, it's crystal clear. The court ruled decisively that Psystar's actions violated both the EULA and the DMCA - and that the EULA was valid. While the average Hackintosh person isn't going to use a mini as a source to copy the files from, that was only one of the issues Alsup cited. The entire process was found to be illegal. Read the ruling.

I did. It's about Leopard, and much of it is about first-sale doctrine, which isn't necessarily applicable to individual use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Zero. There is no such thing.

The EULA specifically states that the retail version can only be used on Macintosh computers, so it is an upgrade, not a full version. Since the EULA has been upheld, that statement now has the force of law.

Sure. I'm not sure what we're arguing about here anymore. My original comments were in response to someone saying that we're not allowed to talk about "warez" on the forum, and I posted that hackintoshing can be substantially different from warezing.
post #83 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Everything I've read indicates people don't really "like" their netbooks. The majority have been bought on price.

Question... If Apple comes out with a netbook or tablet, will you change your stance on supporting the 'hackintosh' concept for netbooks? After all, your claim is based on Apple not currently offering such a product.

Well I never really said I support hackintosh netbooks. I only support that size of a device (and I prefer more powerful notebooks to netbooks) and have for years. Now Apple legally licensing OSX for other devices?- now that I support but it will never happen as long as "you know who" runs Apple.
It remains to be seen what will come next year. We don't really know much about it i.e. how powerful, stylus required, full OSX etc, etc. All I've been saying is Apple could have shrunk a laptop by now with a reduced keyboard yet decided to give us a flattened one with no ports instead that I doubt sells very well now.
post #84 of 106
An ion netbook running osx and windows 7 with parallels makes my mouth water, my head dizzy, and my **** hard.
post #85 of 106
I wonder if the reason to eliminate the Atom from snow leopard is not simply because apple is planning to bring their new product to the market. It seems that all the netbook and ultra portable use Atom. Their probably want to cash out once again on the success of the iphone, developing the OS further, making sure they can cash on the app store.
If one was able to install OSX on this coming product, sure the sales of the hardware might bring good cash, but they would loose out on the apps. 30% isn't it?
Who said apple wasn't evil hehe.

I personally bought the last generation of ppc, so I was stuffed within 6 month. Luckily I am not a developer, as the sdks have become mainly intel. Although I would have liked to have a go at some gentle coding learning curve for the iphone. That was not to be. Now I am concerned about future upgrade, as that intel stuff has been running for quite a while now.

Juste mon grain de sel
post #86 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

VLC has no HW aceleration, but I don't think Atom has any either. I could get 720p in VLC to play on my Wind but Hulu 480p had issues.

Hulu uses Flash video, which is horribly inefficient. That's why mere 480p Hulu video looks bad even on a Mac mini that can also display stutter-free 720p H.264 video using the same GMA950 integrated graphics. H.264 is very CPU intensive, but Flash is just plain awful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If you don't like that analogy, try this one:
You rent a car for a moth with a 300 mile limit and rules that say you can't take it out of the country. You drive 10,000 miles throughout North and Central America. You then return the car. You violated the rules.

Still an awful analogy. Name a rental company that writes a contract like that.

Quote:
The court's ruling says that EULAs are valid and you are in violation of both the EULA and DMCA by using it as you suggest.

Yawn. I don't think jackbooted Apple thugs will be going around beating down the doors of people who install OS X on netbooks and serving papers on said people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Everything I've read indicates people don't really "like" their netbooks. The majority have been bought on price.

You're not reading the right places. Go to any of the forums dedicated to OS X on netbooks and you'll find many people want a decently capable (although obviously not high-end) system that's light and small enough to carry everywhere at all times. I can even do limited, slow Photoshop work on mine. You can't say that about iPhones or, if the rumors of it using the iPhone OS are correct, the upcoming Apple tablet. I like my netbook. iPhones are about simple, specialized apps with few functions. I don't carry my entire software library in my netbook, but it has far more than any casual user carries in a full-blown notebook.
post #87 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Hulu uses Flash video, which is horribly inefficient. That's why mere 480p Hulu video looks bad even on a Mac mini that can also display stutter-free 720p H.264 video using the same GMA950 integrated graphics. H.264 is very CPU intensive, but Flash is just plain awful.

Is this a PPC or CD iMac? Ive had no trouble with 480p Hulu on a 1.86GHz C2D Mini. I see it push my cores to 100% but there is no problem with the video that Ive seen. Now, Boxee on the AppleTV, my Acer Aspire One and MSI WInd couldnt do 480p with Hulu. I had hoped that Hulu would move to an iPhone app and/or some sort of HTTP Secure Streaming with H.264 by this point.
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post #88 of 106
Why is the world sooo full of cheapskates?? makes me sick
just because you want to use the macos doesnt mean you should hack it and use it illegally
just stop being so cheap and just buy a mac after all they aren't that expensive just save up a few more dollars after all the hardware is excellent quality

if you want to buy a premium car you need to save up for it you don't go to a car yard and steal it do you? and you sure as heck don't try to make your shitty daewoo look cool by trying to put BMW stickers on it ?

people are so cheap!
post #89 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuvolino View Post

Why is the world sooo full of cheapskates?? makes me sick
just because you want to use the macos doesnt mean you should hack it and use it illegally
just stop being so cheap and just buy a mac after all they aren't that expensive just save up a few more dollars after all the hardware is excellent quality

if you want to buy a premium car you need to save up for it you don't go to a car yard and steal it do you? and you sure as heck don't try to make your shitty daewoo look cool by trying to put BMW stickers on it ?

people are so cheap!

Well, it is excellent quality.... AND seeing you are so soooooo rich, Go out and buy yourself 20 Xserves, and a few BMW's to carry them home in.

And besides the "car analogy" is nothing similar to this subject

At least cheap people are better than snobs.
post #90 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep View Post

the first macbook air was very unique...

You can't apply a superlative modifier to the adjective "unique". It's either unique (one of a kind) or not unique.

You could however fix your sentence to say, "The first MacBook Air was unique in many ways..."

Or you could use "special" instead of unique.
post #91 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuvolino View Post

Why is the world sooo full of cheapskates?? makes me sick
just because you want to use the macos doesnt mean you should hack it and use it illegally
just stop being so cheap and just buy a mac after all they aren't that expensive just save up a few more dollars after all the hardware is excellent quality

if you want to buy a premium car you need to save up for it you don't go to a car yard and steal it do you? and you sure as heck don't try to make your shitty daewoo look cool by trying to put BMW stickers on it ?

people are so cheap!

Again, you've ignored the response that multiple posters on this thread have made in regard to this same question.

Where does Apple offer a 7" to 12" MacBook?
post #92 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Again, you've ignored the response that multiple posters on this thread have made in regard to this same question.

Where does Apple offer a 7" to 12" MacBook?

He hasnt ignored it. It doesnt make it ethical or legal because what you want isnt offered. For instance, if I want a book but they only have a large hard cover I am not allowed to print up a smaller paperback to suit my particular needs. That said, I have built plenty of Hackintoshes since the Intel transition and have a MSI Wind with OS X on it, but that doesnt make it right. Its one thing to do something its another thing its another to distort the reality of the action to fit a moral mold.
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post #93 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj2110 View Post

Well, it is excellent quality.... AND seeing you are so soooooo rich, Go out and buy yourself 20 Xserves, and a few BMW's to carry them home in.

And besides the "car analogy" is nothing similar to this subject

At least cheap people are better than snobs.

I am not rich far from it in fact i probably make less money then you but at least i have the ethics to realize that if i can't afford something i wont go and steal it! obviously by your reply to this you are a hackintosh user and feel offended.

I saved up for over a year to get my mac and it and it was a great reward for my savings and I myself can feel comfortable in my skin knowing that I didn't stoop to stealing something that I couldn't afford
I am not a snob i'm just sick of everyone stealing something which isn't theirs if that makes me a snob then i pity the mentality our children of the future which will have no respect for peoples rights and their intellectual property
post #94 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

He hasn’t ignored it. It doesn’t make it ethical or legal because what you want isn’t offered. For instance, if I want a book but they only have a large hard cover I am not allowed to print up a smaller paperback to suit my particular needs. That said, I have built plenty of Hackintoshes since the Intel transition and have a MSI Wind with OS X on it, but that doesn’t make it right. It’s one thing to do something it’s another thing it’s another to distort the reality of the action to fit a moral mold.

Um... my post was in response to a post calling netbook buyers "cheap". Nothing was mentioned about their moral right.

Your post brings up another important fact. The majority of "Hackintoshers" also own a Mac, like you do.

And in response to the post about netbook users not liking their netbooks, in my opinion, that's because up until very recently, all netbooks had a resolution of 1024x580 or 1024x600, which is the real reason netbooks were difficult to use. When you get a Windows dialog that goes past the bottom of the screen, you get annoyed.

Now, many netbooks, including many that use Atom processors, come with native 1152x768 or better resolution. You won't find these users complaining nearly as much.
post #95 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuvolino View Post

I am not rich far from it in fact i probably make less money then you but at least i have the ethics to realize that if i can't afford something i wont go and steal it! obviously by your reply to this you are a hackintosh user and feel offended.

I saved up for over a year to get my mac and it and it was a great reward for my savings and I myself can feel comfortable in my skin knowing that I didn't stoop to stealing something that I couldn't afford
I am not a snob i'm just sick of everyone stealing something which isn't theirs if that makes me a snob then i pity the mentality our children of the future which will have no respect for peoples rights and their intellectual property

You cannot go round assuming things (like I use a "Hackintosh") I have a genuine MacPro purchased from an Apple Store, so you are totally wrong with your comeback. It just makes me laugh. And it just proves my point

And second, you cant equate people wanting to use differently configured machines (Eg. a NetBook) with a LEGALLY purchased retail OS X DVD purchased from an Apple Store, IT IS NOT the same as someone stealing from a shop, or stealing a car. That is daft logic. AND NO, I do not believe in stealing, BUT this is NOT the same thing.

I have morals too, but you go too too far with it. And that fact makes you a snob just the same. and People who assume things (like me being a "Hackintosh" user), REALLY offend me too. I find people like that annoying.

And talking of future children, I hope the futures children as you put it, are better than whats here now.

And also taking about respect for peoples rights, I wont even get into that.

End of story.
post #96 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Still an awful analogy. Name a rental company that writes a contract like that.

How about all of them? I rent about 30 cars a year, so I have just a bit of experience.

Read the fine print on your rental agreement. It generally restricts you from driving out of the country. In border states, you can usually get an exception, but it involves letting the company know you will leave the country and may involve an extra fee.

As for the 300 mile limit, those aren't as common as they once were, but there are still plenty of rental deals that involve mileage limits. You see them most commonly on deeply discounted rentals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj2110 View Post

And second, you cant equate people wanting to use differently configured machines (Eg. a NetBook) with a LEGALLY purchased retail OS X DVD purchased from an Apple Store, IT IS NOT the same as someone stealing from a shop, or stealing a car. That is daft logic. AND NO, I do not believe in stealing, BUT this is NOT the same thing.

There's a difference between legally purchased and legally used. Read Judge Alsup's decision. Using Mac OS X DVDs on non-Apple hardware involves both an EULA violation AND a DMCA violation. It's just plain not legal (no matter what the whiners here say). Please read the decision. It specifically says that the EULA is valid. It also specifically says that installing OS X onto generic hardware is a DMCA violation and therefore illegal. It specifically does NOT say that it's only a violation if you sell the computer.

Try to see this from a legal perspective. Apple owns OS X and can therefore do whatever they want with it. They could give it away, sell unlimited usage of it for a nickel, or charge a million dollars per hour to rent it. There's absolutely nothing that restricts how they can sell or license it (other than copyright laws which have almost not restrictions on the copyright owner).

Now, Apple says "we are willing to let you use Mac OS X and will therefore create a retail box. This software is being licensed to you under the following terms - it can only be used on Macintosh computers and the price is $169 for a box set or $29 if you're a Leopard user". They have no obligation to do anything else, but that's what they've chosen to do.

You come along and say, "well, I'm not a Leopard user and I'm not going to install it on Mac OS X, but I'll pay $29 for the box and use it however I want". There's no agreement. Apple did not agree to those terms, so you are using the software without permission from the copyright holder.

It's not about YOUR rights (you don't have any rights to Apple's software other than what Apple gives you), it's about the rights of the copyright holder.

If you had ever developed anything worthwhile that had a marketable value, maybe you'd understand.
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post #97 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

How about all of them? I rent about 30 cars a year, so I have just a bit of experience.

Read the fine print on your rental agreement. It generally restricts you from driving out of the country. In border states, you can usually get an exception, but it involves letting the company know you will leave the country and may involve an extra fee.

As for the 300 mile limit, those aren't as common as they once were, but there are still plenty of rental deals that involve mileage limits. You see them most commonly on deeply discounted rentals.



There's a difference between legally purchased and legally used. Read Judge Alsup's decision. Using Mac OS X DVDs on non-Apple hardware involves both an EULA violation AND a DMCA violation. It's just plain not legal (no matter what the whiners here say). Please read the decision. It specifically says that the EULA is valid. It also specifically says that installing OS X onto generic hardware is a DMCA violation and therefore illegal. It specifically does NOT say that it's only a violation if you sell the computer.

Try to see this from a legal perspective. Apple owns OS X and can therefore do whatever they want with it. They could give it away, sell unlimited usage of it for a nickel, or charge a million dollars per hour to rent it. There's absolutely nothing that restricts how they can sell or license it (other than copyright laws which have almost not restrictions on the copyright owner).

Now, Apple says "we are willing to let you use Mac OS X and will therefore create a retail box. This software is being licensed to you under the following terms - it can only be used on Macintosh computers and the price is $169 for a box set or $29 if you're a Leopard user". They have no obligation to do anything else, but that's what they've chosen to do.

You come along and say, "well, I'm not a Leopard user and I'm not going to install it on Mac OS X, but I'll pay $29 for the box and use it however I want". There's no agreement. Apple did not agree to those terms, so you are using the software without permission from the copyright holder.

It's not about YOUR rights (you don't have any rights to Apple's software other than what Apple gives you), it's about the rights of the copyright holder.

If you had ever developed anything worthwhile that had a marketable value, maybe you'd understand.

you talk crap. just annoying! I just understand people like to ANNOY people.... I have read "Judge Alsup's decision" its RUBBISH like forum bitches.

Peoples rights?? what would you know? and ME doing or developing anything worthwhile what would you know? damn copyright, and its crap. Its all old, and damn asses on forums. They are old too, grammar nazi's, smug rubbish with an answer to everything, NO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM, nor do I want to. They ARE MEAN HEARTLESS PEOPLE.

Thats why I don't usually answer you smug people.

go and lick the corporate coldness with their EULA's and DMCA's, the have the same coldness some of you people come across with. Its all rubbish which we dont need in this world!!
post #98 of 106
In response to the previous post: <EDIT: This was in response to a post which has since been deleted (quoted below)>

Sometimes "grammar Nazis" correct grammar not because they want to criticize you to make you look bad, but because they (we) want to take a small step to help improve the dismal level of literacy we observe in internet forums. Are people too defensive to be able to take constructive criticism and learn when their mistakes are pointed out?

And your post was extremely rude, which the preceding post was not. If you want to argue a point, it might come across better if you demonstrate it in a respectful (and literate) manner.
post #99 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj2110 View Post

you talk crap
its RUBBISH like forum bitches.
damn copyright, and its crap
Its all old, and damn asses on forums
NO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM, nor do I want to.
go and lick the corporate coldness
etc, etc.

We are talking tech here. Try not to get so emotional about it.
post #100 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj2110 View Post

you talk crap. just annoying! I just understand people like to ANNOY people.... I have read "Judge Alsup's decision" its RUBBISH like forum bitches.

Peoples rights?? what would you know? and ME doing or developing anything worthwhile what would you know? damn copyright, and its crap. Its all old, and damn asses on forums. They are old too, grammar nazi's, smug rubbish with an answer to everything, NO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM, nor do I want to. They ARE MEAN HEARTLESS PEOPLE.

Thats why I don't usually answer you smug people.

go and lick the corporate coldness with their EULA's and DMCA's, the have the same coldness some of you people come across with. Its all rubbish which we dont need in this world!!

IOW, you are incapable of rational discussion (much less proper grammar and spelling). You know more about the law than Judge Alsup. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid.

I hope you enjoy having a miserable life - that's the way you're heading.
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post #101 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

He hasnt ignored it. It doesnt make it ethical or legal because what you want isnt offered. For instance, if I want a book but they only have a large hard cover I am not allowed to print up a smaller paperback to suit my particular needs. That said, I have built plenty of Hackintoshes since the Intel transition and have a MSI Wind with OS X on it, but that doesnt make it right. Its one thing to do something its another thing its another to distort the reality of the action to fit a moral mold.

Face it- you'll always only want and buy what Apple currently offers and nothing else anyway therefore your comments to others whenever one requests a desire for anything otherwise is meaningless as you only can spew out that inane mantra of yours.
post #102 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

In response to the previous post:

Sometimes "grammar Nazis" correct grammar not because they want to criticize you to make you look bad, but because they (we) want to take a small step to help improve the dismal level of literacy we observe in internet forums. Are people too defensive to be able to take constructive criticism and learn when their mistakes are pointed out?

And your post was extremely rude, which the preceding post was not. If you want to argue a point, it might come across better if you demonstrate it in a respectful (and literate) manner.

There is NOTHING rude about having a point view. Patronising People like you are BORING. Hey Wait!, What am I even responding to this for??
post #103 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

IOW, you are incapable of rational discussion (much less proper grammar and spelling). You know more about the law than Judge Alsup. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid.

I hope you enjoy having a miserable life - that's the way you're heading.

Same to you, you horrible person. These boards used to be a good place, not any more. And Im NOT heading anywhere you said. Talking about peoples grammar etc, is just rubbish.
And saying I think anyone "who doesn't agree with me is stupid", and "I know more about the law than Judge's" etc.... oh please don't make me laugh!

you people are not very nice. maybe not stupid, but sure as hell not nice. Thats why Im no a longer going take part in Apple insider discussions anymore, It is just NON constructive, and all I find is some patronising freak like you being a bitch. I just cant stand people like you.

You are obviously trying to rile me... (but wasting your time.)

oh, and you enjoy having a miserable life too!!!

END OF SUBJECT OK??

post #104 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

There's a difference between legally purchased and legally used. Read Judge Alsup's decision. Using Mac OS X DVDs on non-Apple hardware involves both an EULA violation AND a DMCA violation. It's just plain not legal (no matter what the whiners here say). Please read the decision. It specifically says that the EULA is valid. It also specifically says that installing OS X onto generic hardware is a DMCA violation and therefore illegal. It specifically does NOT say that it's only a violation if you sell the computer.

Sorry if my question might look dumb, but i'm not from the US and don't really understand your law as it's very different from german law in this specific case.

Isn't Judge Alsups decision only binding to the way Psystar did the installation on the machines they tried to sell? At least that's the way i understood this decision as he regarded the specific ways Psystar used to install Leopard onto their computers.

Not that this decision is of any importance to me (as i live in germany and we have different laws over here), but i'm just interested in the whole case.
post #105 of 106
Of course the decision is only specific to Pystar in THIS case. BUT, it may set precedent for other cases using slightly different methods but still are not in accordance with EULA and copyright protections. In those future hypothetical cases this precedent may make summary judgement even faster in Apples favor as many of the issues have already been vetted in the courtroom.

While this case won't be a binding precedent across every US District Court , the rest of the District Judges don't generally like doing every case from scratch, so even non-binding precedent becomes a big deal.
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post #106 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I never said it was "some sort of unmitigated disaster for Apple". I'm sure it sold very well among Apple devotees (note my refusal to use the word fanboy today). But the fact remains that netbooks appeal due to their form factor in addition to their price. That's all- don't be so negative.

I live in San Francisco where Macs are everywhere and there's no shortage of people who wouldn't think twice about dropping $2000 on a laptop. Yet I very rarely see anyone with a Macbook Air.

I doubt Apple will drop it after all they've invested in it and I think they like it for their image. But I don't think they're selling very well.
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