Smoking may void Applecare warranty - Page 2

You fail test 101 of semi-consciousness: understanding your own prose. Thanks for agreeing that smoking is legal in Canada too.

Yikes. The rest of your post is an unadulterated rant, and not worthy of the time it will take to respond. In any event, by your own reckoning of how 'intense' you get on this topic, it will not appeal to your cognitive sense, so why bother. (If I might, you sound like someone who has had a terrible family experience with a smoker who suffered. If that's the case, my sympathies).

Tar sticks to everything, and sufficient airflow for ventilation can not in any way, shape or form be considered a design flaw in consumer electronics.

Amazing pics you found there! Disgusting to say the least.

Anyhow, although I don't smoke, and despise second hand smoke (yay for a state law that prohibits smoking inside!) I don't see how Apple can get away with this one. The right thing to do would be to either deny Applecare up front (which may fall into some sort of other legal issue) or to refund the customers their Applecare. Also, can anyone find this stated in the Applecare warranty, and when it was introduced into its legal terms?

Agreed the techs should be safe, but if smoker issues pose that much of a problem, then that part that voids the warranty should be stated up front clearly (unlike how I just phrased this sentence)

I don't think the point is the legality of the issue. The point is that nearly every warranty is qualified in that it will not cover abuse, misuse, or accidental damage of whatever component. Tar from tobacco smoke is covered in at least two of those categories.

'Obamacare down our throats?'

Heh heh, sorry, I cannot resist this: http://blackliberal.files.wordpress....-smoking-2.jpg

I used to be a repair tech for Apple and I gotta tell you, people treat their computers like crap. Having seen some of the absurd abuse damage people brought in, I think this was much more than a case of Apple trying to be cheap about honoring the warranty. I once had a guy bring an iPhone in that he had dropped in the toilet. He brought it in in a plastic bag, with water AND PISS in the bag. Obviously, this isn't the same issue, but as a consumer you have to reasonably realize that there are certain things that just aren't covered. Smoking around your equipment and having it damaged is as much your fault as if I'm drinking a coke at my computer and spill it. Not Apple's fault or obligation to cover it (and by the way, on several occasions, I covered/repaired such situations along with many of my co-workers).

My point is this: I've seen 'the other side' of Apple's tech support and it is superior to anything else out there. They have to deal with so much crap and get no credit for all the good services they provide.

Its kind of nice to work for them anymore...now I'm allowed to post on forum topics ;P

Now that is a very good point! Should there be a warning that excessive smoke can be harmful to your computer!!! Lol :-) The same warning they have on a pack on cigs.........
I have worked on and built enough computers and have seen some pretty gross stuff from bugs and fleas inside of a computer tower to pet dander and none of it could be considered healthy to be around.
I just don't think they should have denied warranty replacement or service. As stated by others here that tar from cigarette smoke will eventually cog up the working parts inside of a tower and a laptop then Apple should give explicit warning about this voiding the warranty.
They might be doing this already hidden in the small print somewhere......

I said nothing about damage to the machine in anything I wrote above, so I have no idea what you're referring to.

You may want to read the headline of this thread, for starters.

We have a family friend that does repair work for Apple. I have heard numerous stories about computer abuse. Apple has always been very very gracious with warranty replacement/service so this really stands out to me as out of the norm for Apple.

Bingo! Well-said.

This is about the most ridiculous story I have come across in a while. I'd like to see Sub Zero, BMW or Sony try this one.

What a bunch of whining Pussies here.

Seriously, the guy just bagged up the phone with the toilet water?! That screams bio-hazard. Thanks for fixing our computers though!

I don't think the techs should be working on tar infested machines. I just think it should be clearly stated in the warranty. I'd like some proof that its there. If not, then Apple should just refund people their extra Applecare warranty and tell them to take the machine elsewhere.

That would be a great idea. When buying Applecare they should a question "Are you a smoker?" then it would direct you to a page with a disclaimer that too much smoking over an extended period of time with be harmful to both the machine and that could void the warranty. Then there would be a little "I Agree" button to proceed with the purchase.

Well, hmmmm.....I could buy a new MacBook Pro for $2200 or a new Dell Latitude for $1200.

With Dell, I have the option to buy a four year warranty. And how many years is Applecare? Two, maybe three years at most?

Dell covers accidental damage, no problem. If Apple suspects that the damage was accidental, you the consumer are screwed.

If MacIntoshes are superior to PCs, then why are the PC warranties much better? What extra value would I get by spending $1000 more for a MacIntosh?

I am not a fan of the evil empire, but Apple makes it very risky to buy a machine that you would trust your clumsy 8 year old son to use.

I wonder if Apple employs the same rules for Cannabis infested Macs?

The techs don't report that....they just inhale rather deeply!!! :-)

No, it wouldnt. AppleCare protects against manufacturing issues. Nothing about tar smoke or dropping an iPhone in a toilet is a problem is a problem with the manufacturing.

Warranties are insurance against the manufacturers error, not your own. Im always amazed that people feel entitled to be able to do the stupidest things with their products and expect that someone else should pay for their stupidity.

Sledge hammers are legal but I smash up my Mac with one I will not be expecting a free replacement. if My house catches fire and the soot and smoke clogs my Mac my home owners insurance will pay for a replacement.

I'll come right out and say it that I'm a smoker, but with that said, I am probably one of the most conscientious smokers you'll find out there. You're pointed remarks that smokers are drug addicts is flat out wrong and it speaks from your personal hatred of smokers, which is evident. Yes, nicotine is an addictive drug, but not all who smoke become addicted. In fact, many willingly walk away, and I've known quite a few. You can't be an addict if you can willing quit. I guess that proves you wrong. Frankly, I despise your type who think its their business to tell others what they should and should not be doing and how to do it. Funny you come from Canada. By the way, I'm not sure where you hail from in the nation that is our attic, but I would rather be a smoker who lives in the beautiful, clean New England than a so called "healthy" individual who has lived in a city all their lives. Every time I drive to NYC for a visit, I laugh to myself as I imagine all those poor saps living is that DISGUSTING blanket of haze that's called pollution. So think twice before you go lecturing smokers my friend, because there is much much more out there that is at least as deadly as cigarette smoke.

As for Apple, if they are going to be in the business of denying customer repairs based on OSHA governance, I think they should openly disclose that their AppleCare is voided if the customer smokes. I personally have never heard of tar build up in electronic devices before, but being a smoker who never smokes inside any kind of building, even my house (how gross), I guess I wouldn't know.

And I thought dust was the only thing to worry about.

Thank you for that sensible post.

AppleCare is one year by default, 3 years extended. Ive dealt with many machines from corporate to consumer over the decades and I can assure you that Apples warranties are the best Ive seen/ They are very lenient compared to others. You cant say that about Dell. Just hope to god that youll never need to use your Dell warranty.

I would qualify as being on the left to right wing people. I agree that if the computer in question had excessive smoke damage that it probably shouldn't be fixed under warranty, as I know heavy smoking people who smoke around their computers indoors, it is indeed gross and damaging to the hardware in high enough amounts.

As for everything else you said, I'd have to say that you should probably try doing some traveling if you haven't already, because your views are very extreme and honestly off-putting. Your rhetoric could use some work as well. The world is not as black and white as far lefties or far righties make it seem. Applying the label of drug addicts with no control over their actions to all smokers, brushing off the opinions of nobel prize winners, and refusing to listen to another point of view besides picking out the parts you want to argue with is not a good way to get people on your side.

That's b.s.

I always get AppleCare, and on a couple of occasions, I've seen Apple do extraordinary things above and beyond the call of duty (replacing hardware after AppleCare expired). So you can keep your tired anti-corporate tantrums to yourself.

This smoking issue might be silly and it might not be. Keep in mind that none of us has actually SEEN (or smelled) the computers in question. We might change our minds if we'd been there.

Remember: until you know, you don't know.

I've worked on a lot on systems like this and in many cases, the cause of "death" to the computer was this buildup of tar. Dust sticks to it, it is really hard to clean and it WILL do damage to computer components. I can see where this will void a warranty.

simple fact: smoke damages electronics. i first heard this when i was 8. if you didn't know before, you know now. don't smoke around your computer.
if you've gotten enough residue in your computer that the techie is even able to notice, shame on you. you deserve to have your warranty voided.
stop complaining and just be happy you're still alive.

If its really an OSHA issue Apple would be best not to get involved in it. My grandpa is a small business owner so I know about OSHA and you don't want to get hit with the book by them. Sucks for smokers but what can I say? One more reason not to smoke :P

Really? I thought he made an excellent point.


See? This is nonsense. You're not really saying anything there. It really doesn't matter whether smoking is legal or illegal, as smoking is an inalienable right. Well, I should say, it's an inalienable right in the mind of anyone who wishes to not be labeled a hypocrite and thinks that they have a right to eat cheeseburgers. If you think people should be locked up for eating cheeseburgers, well, in that case at least you're not a hypocrite.


Ah, but so are those who drink lots of coffee, and eat lots of chocolate. They are drug addicts too, literally, technically, however you want to qualify it, they are. :-p

I have no problem with people who are addicted to the drug caffeine, nor do I have a problem with people who are addicted to the drug nicotine.

So, unless their warranty doesn't cover coffee spills or nicotine tars and that is in fact the cause of the damage, they are all entitled to have their computers repaired. Otherwise it's just robbery. Shame on Apple.


I must disagree with you here.

You see, when someone eats red meat they are in fact supporting an industry that is effectively destroying the environment in which you and I live, and so red meat eaters are perhaps more dangerous than smokers.

Likewise, lying around in the sun can give those people who are lying in the sun skin cancer, thereby killing them and robbing their children of adequate raising and nurturing, turning them into criminals who rob me.

Hmm... come to think of it, many of the activities people engage in, even seemingly those that are personal, can have consequences just as bad if not worse than smoking a cigarette, which as you rightly point out, can harm other people as well.

I therefore propose we execute 95% of the population, that outta fix it.


It is, and there have been many examples of laptop repair people dying as a result of touching a computer contaminated by smoke. I have the statistics lying around here somewhere...

I myself have lost 3 friends due to this phenomenon, and they were even wearing masks and gloves!


You are absolutely correct. Perhaps you'll join me in a similar quest to rid the world of those addicted to coffee, chocolate, McDonald's fries, and various other pollutants. Maybe we could pool our asshole resources and finally create a Christian/Catholic utopia where people do not have sex, use scissors with sharp edges, ride bicycles without helmets, and other dangerous and irresponsible activities.

My friend, you are truly an inspiration to us all. Can I offer you my hallway patrol safety belt that I wore proudly as a maggot of age 7? Those hallways have never been as clean and free of hooligans as when I was around, striking fear in the hearts of anyone with who had any spirit left in them. It's a cherished memory, that belt, but you remind me so much of myself that I think you should have it, I'm getting too old for it...

This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.

Do you have proof that these workers have no choice in the matter and are not able to quite work if they so choose? Are you implying that the Chinese factories that make Apples products are less healthy than the Chinese factories that make all other products in the world?

Man, that cigarette smoke is GUNKY. Imagine that stuff coating your lungs. You know what is worse, though? Smoke from incense candles. That stuff sticks to heatsinks like you wouldn't believe.

If you smoke damage a computer, from any source, your warranty is void. Period. That is likely Apple's policy. The "safety" explanations may have been bogus. There is not enough detail in the story to know if in fact it is Apple's policy not to service smoke damaged computers. The specific information indicating the customers requested non-warranty repair when refused warranty repair, and then were told they would not do so because of health reasons, seems to be missing. This might well be a bit of sensationalized journalism as well.

Apple expects us to wear sunglasses while operating their high glare glossy screens so we should at least expect them to put on the gloves and a mask- right?

As a former Mac Genius, I can tell you that the computer was refused service under AppleCare because Apple cannot cover a malfunction that is due to USER NEGLECT under their warranty. I know everyone is trying to say that its just another way to screw their customers but consider these two thoughts:

1- If you crash your car into a tree, would you expect the car manufacturer to repair YOUR damage under warranty? I would surely hope not. And if you do think that Apple (or any manufacturer) should pay for YOUR neglect, you should take a long walk off a short pier and sue the manufacturer of the pier. Oh wait, you'll be dead, thats right. How can Apple warranty against abuse? They can only tell you that if their product FAILS (meaning, breaks of its own accord), they will repair the unit for you as long as the warranty is still valid. If your computer is caked with nicotine and tar, it is not Apple's fault that you have literally suffocated your computer. If you don't like that, cancel your AppleCare agreement and they will refund the balance to you, no questions asked. Call 1-800-APL-CARE and ask to speak to Agreement Admin. Oh, and if you think that nobody ever told you that, take a look at the warranty that you agree to the first time you ever turned on your computer. It's on the bottom of the very first page. http://images.apple.com/legal/warran...puwarranty.pdf

2- Why should a computer technician be forced to be subjected to your disgustingness? They didn't do anything to deserve that. The hard working men and women that repair your computers have it hard enough listening to you bitch about how its not your fault that the computer is broken and blah blah blah. Nobody deserves to have to work in that kind of filth, and you are NOBODY to say that they should have to. If you feel so strongly that I am wrong, go work in the service business for a week and you'll understand. If you don't want to do the job yourself, then shut up about it and stop being a disgusting person. Smoking is a choice, just like anything else, and you choose to smoke around your computer. Hell, if you think that it is your god given right to smoke around your computer and then for Apple to pay for your neglect, tell your doctor that its his or her problem when you have emphysema. It's not like they didn't tell you it would happen.

One person was allegedly told that the damage was caused by tar buildup from smoking around the machine. not really that different than excluding water damage.

As for the emails to Steve and the nicotine bit, no proof it happened at this point. so maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

And who is to say that OSHA doesn't have such rules, did you bother to look. Perhaps they do and perhaps they do define nicotine as a hazard substance. In which cause Apple could be sued by an employee if they forced the person to do the repair. OSHA rules are wacky like that.

Superb point. Hey, if we can outsource our waste, pollution, after-sales service, etc etc and make ourselves all nice and antiseptic in the process, why not! (oops.... I don't smoke...)

Really- what's next- "You have to use your Mac in an antiseptically controlled environment"? Apple should design the vents etc so they're not prone to this or post a warning sticker. I mean who would blow smoke directly on their laptop constantly if that picture is to be believed. Apple should at least post a warning to use an air blaster periodically if you smoke whatever or live in dusty environs.

I think what GeekDad was saying is that there should be a little window that pops up, or a disclaimer at the apple store that says "by smoking near your computer, you may void your warranty" allowing the customer to say "yes, I understand the risk of voiding the warranty I am purchasing" or to say "uh, never mind, I'll opt to not deal with it". I think its a reasonable request. Makes the issue much more visable!

They do, you agree to it when you first turn on your computer. It is in very clear language in the warranty.

Say whaaaaat? Just because something is harmful or stupid does not make it instantly "illegal". Smoking in public will not be illegal. Smoking near another person or in an enclosed space may very likely become illegal, since there is in fact harm done from the second-hand smoke. Even so, if a person wants to harm their person, as long as it does no harm to another, should never be illegal. Freedom of choice includes the freedom to injure or kill yourself, but "society" does not owe that person health care or hospitalization.

sounds like you are suggesting that the sales people violate the customer's right to privacy and ask if they are smokers or just give a nice "oh and if you smoke or eat or drink or . . . or . . . or . . . around your computer don't bother bringing it in cause we won't fix anything" every time.

that will go over real well.

How do we know that picture is a result of cigarettes? That could be from many things.