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Smoking may void Applecare warranty - Page 3

post #81 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvrh73 View Post

As a former Mac Genius, I can tell you that the computer was refused service under AppleCare because Apple cannot cover a malfunction that is due to USER NEGLECT under their warranty.

You know this? Care to provide any evidence? Especially, considering the story that we are responding to specifically says "One reader received a response advising that "nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
post #82 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

sounds like you are suggesting that the sales people violate the customer's right to privacy and ask if they are smokers or just give a nice "oh and if you smoke or eat or drink or . . . or . . . or . . . around your computer don't bother bringing it in cause we won't fix anything" every time.

No, I am not. You are saying that 1+1 = 3.

But guess what? That's as legal as your right to smoke.
post #83 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by xraynano View Post

If you smoke damage a computer, from any source, your warranty is void. Period. That is likely Apple's policy. The "safety" explanations may have been bogus. There is not enough detail in the story to know if in fact it is Apple's policy not to service smoke damaged computers.

chances are the person came into for a bar appointment cause the machine overheated, crashed, whatever. the tech opened it and found the gunk and in the course of probing found out that the person was a heavy smoker and very often smoked while at the computer. A quick poke with a pen tip or such was enough to know that the gunk and dust was everywhere and as accidental damage it was not covered by AppleCare. the tech probably then told the person they could try to clean out the gunk but it would likely require a full strip down which is not a service that they do, nor do they have somewhere that could and when the person balked and asked for a manager they were told that it wasn't a covered service and additionally cigarette tar and nicotine is listed by OSHA as a hazard and as such the company can't make an employee work on the machine and be exposed to such substances.

and the peeved customer decided to rant off to make Apple look like dicks for turning them away .
post #84 of 332
if your computer is filled with potentially hazardous materials and toxic crap, you need an exterminator, not a repair shop.

It's Apple's job to repair your computer, not clean/disinfect it. If you're a pig and don't take care of your crap it'll eventually catch up with you.
post #85 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark W View Post

If however, Apple are refusing service because of health concerns, they should provide a replacement or a refund - the reasons for the refusal are quite irrelevant - the customer has paid for a service which they have a right to be provided with.

So should Apple supply Haz-Mat suits for the computer that come in from nuclear lab? How about biotech firms working with a dangerous virus, or should they just trust the customer that the computer is dead and send them a new one?

These are completely legal activities yet you cannot expect Apple to supply the tools/garments necessary to work on computers coming from these types of environments. If the user contaminates the computer with harmful chemicals, biohazards... then Apple is not responsible to service them _even_ if still under warrantee! And in my opinion even if the potential failure would normally be covered.

If you contaminate your computer, that's your fault not Apples!

KRR
post #86 of 332
I found a site that has a bunch of photos of disgusting computers. http://www.thecomputerwizard.biz/photos.htm

Here is one of the worst photos. It's a nasty combination of tar, dirt, dust and mold. Anyone who thinks that warranties should cover this or thinks that a computer company should force it's employees to work on computers in such a state is delusional.

post #87 of 332
A couple of points:

1) No computer coming in for repair, especially after any length of time, is clean and pristine inside. If being clean is a prerequisite for warranty service, most computers would be denied coverage.

2) If it really is an OSHA issue then why have we not heard of this issue before? Keep in mind every consumer electronics device could potentially be exposed to this kind of environment yet there just doesn't seem to be any examples of a TV or whatever not being repaired because of "environmental toxins cause by the user".

3) Nicotine probably has a very low precipitation rate on surfaces. The gunk in the computer is much more likely tar.

4) Aqueous liquids can instantly damage electronics. That's why spills can automatically void a warranty. By contrast, vapors don't cause failures in that way. Similarly, people don't instantly die from tobacco smoke, cheeseburgers, or a beer. However, you can certainly die almost instantly from drowning. Consequently, trying to connect this whole issue to water damage just doesn't work.
post #88 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

ZZzzzzz . . .

Another installment of Strange But True.

If cigarette smoke residue has rendered the unit unsafe as per regulations, then that's that.

Apple shoots people they don't like...

"Well sure... I see no problem with that..."

I'm guessing there must be SOMETHING that Apple might do that would cross the line right?!!? Killing baby puppies perhaps? Flipping the bird at nuns??

I mean Apple HAS to be in the WRONG sometime right?!?!
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post #89 of 332
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/smokekills

And for the story, I can understand it is bad to use your computer as ashtray and agree with Apple in such case.
But the reason "smoke is dangerous so I do not want repair your computer" sounds like a joke and very arrogant to me: isn't a company supposed to make customers happy.
I mean, it's not like they were sniffing plutonium...

I do not smoke and usually ask smokers next to me to stop; but I can understand people who smoke while using their computer: isn't tobacco supposed to reduce stress ?
post #90 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisTheXIV View Post

just another big corporation trying to screw its customers out of costly warranties...

Ever since the inception of the warranty, companies have been finding ways any way they can to not honor them.

This is a nice and simple way of voiding your warranty even if there is no proof of anything. Next up...if you ever sneeze around your computer the warranty is null! Afterall...it might be a flu hazard...

What kind of an idiot are you? Assuming you're a smoker, you must not do much house cleaning, or you would have noticed the all the brown sticky scum covering EVERYTHING.

Daniel Swanson

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post #91 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by akf2000 View Post

I can understand this is His Steveness himself was doing all the repairs.

I read a report that in the summer, you know if you've been there, the air in Los Angeles is brown and apparently worse then smoking. Not second hand smoke but smoking. So if your anti smoking and live in LA, that's pretty funny, although not really.

Anyway Apple really? Is that a US thing as try going to Europe where they smoke in the stores, trains. The US is so restricted. No wonder companies out source. Kid blows off a finger with a firecracker, instead of punishing the parents, let's outlaw it.

People need to take responsability. I remembervworking working for Capitol Records in Hollywood. They used to smoke in all the offices. If you own a company, can you legally allow smoking or has the govt. gone that Nazi?

At least in film production they still smoke. Youdon't t like it and suddenly they will find a reason to let you go.

All theses laws and tar being dangerous? I hope Apple gets sued and loses. Why extreme leftist non tech genius said eewwww with their sweaty palms said I'm not fixing that. Oh brother. This is the type of person that has eveything sqaured and to many shoes. More apple PR. Can we at
least see a picture?

Peace all.

This is just silly.
post #92 of 332
This from the same company that uses slave labor in a communist country.
2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #93 of 332
*applause

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

As you will see below, you are the one spouting nonsense.



Name one country where it's illegal -- it's certainly not illegal in the US, where I live. The fact that something could be, some day, illegal is not a basis to act and think like it is. A lot of the other examples I mentioned could be 'illegal' some day, but that doesn't make them illegal now. Nor should it.



You are out of your intellectual league here. Addiction can be, and is often rational. Theories of 'rational addiction' are well-understood. (See for instance, a Nobel laureate economist, Gary Becker, on this issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_addiction). Incidentally, if it was so irreversibly addictive, people would not be giving it up in droves.



Nah, I pay for your skin cancer, your obesity, your health consequences from unsafe sex, etc. -- more generally, a lot of your lifestyle choices -- through my taxes and through the social compact.



No one disagrees that smoke is poison -- I certainly didn't, and don't. Stop hyperventilating.



The fact that it might be illegal in public does not make it illegal (indeed, people don't use their Apple computers mostly in public places).

It's no wonder that some people on the Right think that people with views like yours are one step away from celebrating fascism in the name of 'social good.'
post #94 of 332
Quote:
Employees at one Apple store reportedly told a customer that her computer was "beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke."

Both customers sent letters directly to Steve Job's office and both were declined service even though they had active Applecare warranties. One reader received a response advising that "nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."

Apple has not officially responded to any inquiries about this policy and it is unclear if it is a blanket policy or if there is a workable threshold for the amount of smoke damage present.


I'm a non smoker and always have been. But this story has to be a joke. Unless a computer has fire, smoke and water damage, how could cigarette smoking damage a computer beyond repair - OR - prevent employees from repairing the computer.

My advice to these 2 consumers: If you have a reasonable case, SUE! for breach of contract, breach of warranty, unreasonable conduct and discrimination based on lifestyle or handicap.


post #95 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Its one thing to refuse service because excessive tar actually caused the failure (Ive seen some disgusting stained walls in smokers homes). Maybe that can happen, hard as it is to believe.

Its another to say that no safety gear exists which allows workers to repair the machine safely. I feel certain that a properly-equipped repair tech could work on tobacco-slimed hardware for many years without taking in any of the toxins.

I suppose Apple could say that supplying such gear (and the extra time involved) makes the repair too expensive to cover. That would be weird, though. Does Apple tell you when you buy the AppleCare plan that heavy smoking without ventilation may render your hardware impractical to repair? If not, then Apple shouldnt be deciding AFTER the fact that its a problem. Smoking, sad to say, is still common, so its not an issue Apple should have overlooked. Apple should pay whatever it takes to repair the systems safelyor simply replace themunless theyre going to give more fair warning about this issue.

Gimme a break. In case you hadn't noticed, Apple is taking stands on issues which are important. The health of their employees is very important. Putting the responsibility for the effects of smoking back on the smoker is NOT unreasonable. If fact, it's the RIGHT thing to do.

Those who insist on being STOOOPID and smoke like chimneys around their computer equipment should realize what damage they're doing, not only to their equipment, but to the technician who MIGHT have worked on it.

You want the warranty coverage? QUIT SMOKING! Simple.

Daniel Swanson

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post #96 of 332
Just so everyone is clear, this would not void the warranty on all smoker's computers, only ones that are so full of tar, that is inhibits working on it. Likely it is a judgement call on the part of the service technician. Just keep your area around your computer clean. A DJ taking a computer into a smoky bar for 4 hours is NOT going to cause a warranty to be voided (that DJ ought to consider supplemental insurance on the equipment protecting it from beer spills anyhow). They are talking about systems that look like the one we've got pictured in the comments thread here. You won't see this being enforced only because the system smells a little bit like a cigarette. I have seen computers returned to the store after being in the possession of the customer for 12 hours smell like a pack of Marlboros, those are the people that should be concerned about the long term affects on the computer.
post #97 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I don't smoke, but I find your attitude quite unbelievable. Last I checked, it is a perfectly legal activity. If smoking did "nothing" for the smoker -- e.g., give them pleasure -- why would they smoke in the first place? And 'hazardous to health?' People lie around in the sun, eat too much red meat, put too much salt in their food, drive above the speed limit, drive after they've had a drink or two, have unprotected/unsafe sex, don't wash hands enough, etc etc. Would you ban all such activity?



That's a silly analogy. If so, Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra. They do neither.

I can see this going to court.

No, it's YOUR attitude that is unbelievable. Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passed to say that they're going to protect their employees' health. They're doing the right thing.

Daniel Swanson

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post #98 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

This from the same company that uses slave labor in a communist country.

When did Singapore become a communist country?
post #99 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Do you have proof that these workers have no choice in the matter and are not able to quite work if they so choose? Are you implying that the Chinese factories that make Apples products are less healthy than the Chinese factories that make all other products in the world?

Are those iPhones in hand?




No. Chinese factories that make Apple products are more healthy. At least when compared to those factories making drywall for the US housing market, or dog food and baby formula, or lead paint in Childrens toys. Although, now that I think about it, I wonder what is truly going on in those iPhones?

Not healthy!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/aug/13/china

http://www.chinacsr.com/en/2007/04/0...g-food-recall/

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/wo...ia/16milk.html

http://www.chinalawblog.com/2009/10/..._makes_us.html

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post #100 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

Apple shoots people they don't like...

"Well sure... I see no problem with that..."

I'm guessing there must be SOMETHING that Apple might do that would cross the line right?!!? Killing baby puppies perhaps? Flipping the bird at nuns??

I mean Apple HAS to be in the WRONG sometime right?!?!


"nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."


Good enough for me. I assume it was a bit more serious than yellowing of the case.
post #101 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passe....

Uh-uh. No, make that haha. So, what is Apple relying on when they say: " ....nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
post #102 of 332
Boy do you watch to much CNN or what. I don't smoke pot but the paper companies in the late 1800s saw hemp as a threat, so Tindale or Hammermill outlawed it. I also have an under cover narc friend one is narc, the other DEA, drugs are made illegal because you cannot patient a plant, opium, where all the morphine to codeine started, so since you can't patient it, outlaw it. Who wins? The pharmacutical companies.

Read about prohibition. How it created the mob. Go back further and you'll see tin cans that read for a busy mom and baby, opium candy to help you relax and thatbwas less than 100 years ago.

Go to college. Learn. Read. Absorb. Let your mind be open for a change. I like to use food as an anlogy. What does it feel like to be hungry? You can't explain it right. But you eat and feel satisfied. Same with smokers. I used to be one. But again. There are way to many rules in this country. O remember visiting holland. It was beautiful and we went up this windmill and saw a skull and cross bones. That's it. Meaning you can go around the rope but you could also die. In the US, that display would be off limits, protected by 5 feet of glass and unresponsible parents allow laws to be changed due to their bad patenting and we all pay. You'll see. Someday it will affect you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is nonsense.

In the first place just because it isn't illegal now in your country, doesn't mean it won't be soon, or isn't be already in more civilised places. In the second place, your argument about why a smoker smokes is based on the idea of free will when in fact smoking is a simple drug addiction. It has nothing to do with making rational choices or free will.

Smokers are drug addicts. That's just a simple fact. They have no more control over smoking than a crackhead does over doing crack or a wino has over drinking.

Third, all your analogies are junk in that laying around in the sun, eating red meat etc., are not only a choice, they are choices that don't affect anyone else.

Smoke is poison (another fact). Second hand smoke has been proven many times over to be just as bad as firsthand smoke, and third hand smoke is implicated in the latest research as well. No one has the right to poison those around them. They never did. We just weren't sufficiently aware of how dangerous smoking was before.

Drug addicts don't have the same rights as normal people and there is no "inalienable right" to do drugs. Even if there were, a person's human rights end where another's begin. A person may have the right to shoot a gun, but they don't have the right to shoot it at someone else. Even if a smoker had some kind of "right" to smoke, they don't have the right to do it around anyone else.

Smoking will be illegal in public in your lifetime probably. Get used to it.
post #103 of 332
First of all, if someone wants to smoke cigarettes, that's their choice. I don't, and I really don't care for it, but I don't aim to run anyone's life for them. I have enough of a time keeping myself out of trouble. I don't mind working on a computer that has been smoked around...warranties are something else.

I don't know how much harm the compounds left behind in a computer would really cause to someone working on it. It seems feasible that any person could have a problem, even if it was no more serious than just being "grossed out". I know I've worked on more computers than I can count that were owned by smokers. The worst one came from a guy whose apartment walls should have been bright white but were actually dull yellow. I could not see any identifying marks on any component part in the system. I also couldn't make out any of the fan paddles.

No matter how much you might like to smoke, you might stop when you looked inside anything in your home that has a fan going inside it.

I really didn't want to touch it. I had no idea what to do about it. So I threw it in the dishwasher after making some preparations. (Bet that got your attention, didn't it.) Chucked it on there with a ton of detergent, the hottest possible water temperature setting and the longest wash cycle I could pick. It was not completely successful as the system smelled of cigarettes afterwards, but it was a 9000% improvement from what it had been. Stuff was the right color again.

More recently, I inherited a Dell Dimension V350 PC that had a lesser form of the same disease, and I decided to show the world one way to fix the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahhSDEgkqQ8 . If that sort of thing interests you, please go and watch.

At the same time I fixed a fax machine that faxed entirely in black. Yep, you guessed it. A fine line of cigarette residue covered the optics, making it impossible to read a document.
post #104 of 332
I guess smoking residue trumps poor working conditions. Interesting indeed.
post #105 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Employees at one Apple store reportedly told a customer that her computer was "beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke."

As per Apple's standard hardware Warrantee decrees, i.e., "This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by use with non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, flood, fire, earthquake or other external causes, the presence of a sufficient substance to cause the computer to malfunction, is sufficient to negate the service.

Although having a machine come in for service with such visual evidence to conclude that the primary cause of failure is due to using it in a 'smoking' environment of any degree, proclaiming that "nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health." may in part not be totally accurate. Certainly, the employees refusal to repair the computer under warranty is perfectly within their rights and Apple's position to protect their employees where it might be deemed a health hazard to any extent is equally valid.

Having been on both sides of the desk, I would be embarrassed to bring in a computer gunk'd up with something that I was responsible for. If they refused to honor the warranty, even after personally cleaning and returning it myself, that would be my problem.

On the other hand, having to stick your face into something somebody else basically crapped in, is not what anybody should be forced to do.

Keep in mind that some non-smokers can enter a locked 'smoking' room and be unaffected at all. Whereas, others become totally repulsed at even the thought of touching the door nob.
post #106 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I guess smoking residue trumps poor working conditions. Interesting indeed.

It's actually *part* pf poor working conditions.
post #107 of 332
To air is human.
post #108 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If the latter point exists then I dont see how the first point couldnt exist. In other words, if you machine is so fooled up and visually coated with nicotine tar inside and out within the 1yr or 3 yr plans then the warranty shouldnt cover this.

If I use my notebook at the pool and it gets wet or if I spill Coke on it then I dont expect the warranty to cover this sort of damage. This is not a problem with the machine, but how the machine has been treated.

I whole-heartedly agree. I can't pour wine or soda on my computer and expect the warranty to cover the damage.
post #109 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnchi View Post

I totally understand where Apple is coming from. I work on PC's at work and I have had to work on users notebooks that looked, and smelled like they were using it as an ash tray. Its disgusting! I smell and feel dirty after working on it.

Agree 100 percent. I have opened up a couple of PC boxes that were owned by smokers and it was disgusting. I won't do it any longer as I don't want to have contact with that kind of filth. To think people actually put that in their lungs.

I do feel that if Apple is unwilling to repair the items, then Apple should refund the Apple Care purchase costs.
post #110 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by abogus1 View Post

This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.

There is a saying that people living in glass houses should not throw stones.

Currently, there are virtually thousands of US products on recall, e.g., FDA*, Auto, Consumer products** , which evidence somebody's lack of care for the health of the people they want to sell to.

* http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/default.htm
http://www.autorecalls.us/
**http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prerelnov09.html
post #111 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

To air is human.

Worse, it is cowardly.
post #112 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post



How do we know that picture is a result of cigarettes? That could be from many things.

"Many things" ??? ... Such as?
post #113 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Agree 100 percent. I have opened up a couple of PC boxes that were owned by smokers and it was disgusting. I won't do it any longer as I don't want to have contact with that kind of filth. To think people actually put that in their lungs.

I do feel that if Apple is unwilling to repair the items, then Apple should refund the Apple Care purchase costs.

Like you buy your wife a life insurance policy and decide to kill her:

Naturally, you wouldn't expect to collect on the policy if you were found guilty of the crime, but you expect the premiums be returned to you?
post #114 of 332
this is ridiculous, there is no proven health risk from second hand contact. I love your products Apple and I don't smoke but this is asinine.
post #115 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


"nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."

Water is also on OSHA's list. Water is toxic.
post #116 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I don't smoke, but I find your attitude quite unbelievable. Last I checked, it is a perfectly legal activity. If smoking did "nothing" for the smoker -- e.g., give them pleasure -- why would they smoke in the first place? And 'hazardous to health?' People lie around in the sun, eat too much red meat, put too much salt in their food, drive above the speed limit, drive after they've had a drink or two, have unprotected/unsafe sex, don't wash hands enough, etc etc. Would you ban all such activity?



That's a silly analogy. If so, Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra. They do neither.

I can see this going to court.

Sorry. Smoking is not perfectly legal in California. You can't smoke in bars and restaurants. Second hand smoke affects the workers who have to work there. In my fair town of Santa Cruz, you can't smoke on Pacific Avenue nor can you smoke on the city owned beaches. All related to the hazards of second hand smoke. Yes, it has been banned in certain areas.
post #117 of 332
Must be a slow news day.
post #118 of 332
I would love to see a show of hands of which of the posters in this thread are smokers. That would be quite interesting. I personally am a militant anti-smoker, with no exceptions, even if you smoke within the law, it still bothers me. I hate cigarette smoke. Even the slightest whiff disgusts me. In my opinion smokers should have to live out in the desert somewhere like lepers calling out notice of their affliction whenever normal people come within earshot.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #119 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Say whaaaaat? Just because something is harmful or stupid does not make it instantly "illegal". Smoking in public will not be illegal. Smoking near another person or in an enclosed space may very likely become illegal, since there is in fact harm done from the second-hand smoke. Even so, if a person wants to harm their person, as long as it does no harm to another, should never be illegal. Freedom of choice includes the freedom to injure or kill yourself, but "society" does not owe that person health care or hospitalization.

Smoking in any public place or place of employment is illegal in Ohio - Ohio voters voted in favor of this ban in 2006.
post #120 of 332
Never thought there would come a day a would decide never to buy a mac again but that day has come. When I paid my MacBook Pro they didn't say they couldn't accept my money because it was a biohazard so I wonder why they would consider my notebook a biohazard.

A big fuck you to Steve Jobs! What's next? People who eat meat can't send in their Macs for repair anymore?
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