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iPod touch camera rumors resurface with claimed spring release - Page 3

post #81 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They have never added that camera to a device running iPhone OS. Your theory that Apple went through all the trouble to include a space for the video camera than matches the iPod Nano but then yanked it at the last minute has conspiracy theory written all over it. It makes no sense.

Dude, read my earlier posts. I'm not saying it wasn't a mfg error, I'm saying that if it WAS a mfg error, given the lead time Apple has had to prepare for adding a camera to the iPod Touch, it shouldn't have happened. No conspiracy involved, just poor execution.

-Clive
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post #82 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Dude, read my earlier posts. I'm not saying it wasn't a mfg error, I'm saying that if it WAS a mfg error, given the lead time Apple has had to prepare for adding a camera to the iPod Touch, it shouldn't have happened. No conspiracy involved, just poor execution.

-Clive

The MobileMe release on top of the 3G and v3.0 release with a free trial for any and everyone without requiring a creditcard like they do now was poor execution.

The more recent 1.5Gbps SATA later updated to 3Gbps and still unable to use many 3rd-party drives effectively because of some proprietary connector configuration is poor execution.

Apple makes mistakes but rarely do we see them since they keep so much hidden. If not for the space that exactly fits the iPod Nanos video camera or the inclusion of the camera in the Nano we would have never known about the Touchs camera and would not have been speculating on why it never came. I dont disagree that Apple makes mistakes I thought were saying that Apple shouldnt make mistakes.
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post #83 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The MobileMe release on top of the 3G and v3.0 release with a free trial for any and everyone without requiring a creditcard like they do now was poor execution.

The more recent 1.5Gbps SATA later updated to 3Gbps and still unable to use many 3rd-party drives effectively because of some proprietary connector configuration is poor execution.

Apple makes mistakes but rarely do we see them since they keep so much hidden. If not for the space that exactly fits the iPod Nanos video camera or the inclusion of the camera in the Nano we would have never known about the Touchs camera and would not have been speculating on why it never came. I dont disagree that Apple makes mistakes I thought were saying that Apple shouldnt make mistakes.

All we've determined, then, is that I have higher expectations than you.
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post #84 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

All we've determined, then, is that I have higher expectations than you.

Likely true. I like to keep my expectations realistic which means i dont get upset if a company doesnt offer what I want when i want it. That which we cannot change we must endure.
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post #85 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Likely true. I like to keep my expectations realistic which means i don’t get upset if a company doesn’t offer what I want when i want it. That which we cannot change we must endure.

I seriously feel that you are overestimating the difficulty of adding a camera to the iPod Touch.

Adding one to the Nano? Now THAT was an achievement. It had different hardware, challenging space requirements, AND new OS elements to write. All the Touch had were the space limitations, which, according to their apparent success with the Nano, was a non-issue. Therefore Apple supposedly should've only needed to write a driver for the camera module... and in my opinion, that should've been their first priority over adding a damn camera to the Nano.

...Of all the irrelevant devices to add a camera...
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post #86 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I seriously feel that you are overestimating the difficulty of adding a camera to the iPod Touch.

Adding one to the Nano? Now THAT was an achievement. It had different hardware, challenging space requirements, AND new OS elements to write. All the Touch had were the space limitations, which, according to their apparent success with the Nano, was a non-issue. Therefore Apple supposedly should've only needed to write a driver for the camera module... and in my opinion, that should've been their first priority over adding a damn camera to the Nano.

...Of all the irrelevant devices to add a camera...

Apparently Im not. Recall my recent example of Apple not getting a SATA connector working as it normally should so that some 3rd-party drives are unusable with current MBPs.
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post #87 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apparently Im not. Recall my recent example of Apple not getting a SATA connector working as it normally should so that some 3rd-party drives are unusable with current MBPs.

Yes, I recall. I also recall you using that example to imply that the MBP issue was on a higher level of severity than Apple messing up on the iPod Touch (quoted below). Now I see you've changed your mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The more recent 1.5Gbps SATA later updated to 3Gbps and still unable to use many 3rd-party drives effectively because of some proprietary connector configuration is poor execution..

Look, the simple fact is that, on a software/firmware level, the iPod Touch has been camera-ready since its birth. That Apple has missed a deadline that has been two years coming is just as poor execution as - if not worse than - the botched MBP driver issue or the clumsy MobileMe launch. Everyone who knew anything about the iPod Touch was expecting a camera, regardless of whether some tech idiot found a space for one or not.

This was, in my opinion, an unacceptable error on Apple's part. You don't have to agree with me, but I do find it surprising that you don't find it more disappointing than you currently seem to.
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post #88 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Yes, I recall. I also recall you using that example to imply that the MBP issue was on a higher level of severity than Apple messing up on the iPod Touch (quoted below). Now I see you've changed your mind?

I havent changed my mind about anything discussed here. Its very severe in the sense that its abnormal to only have a 1.5Gbps SATA that wont wony take any ol drives with SATA connectors. Its not that severe in the since that unless you wanted to use SSDs the 3Gbps connector is pointless anyway.

Quote:
Look, the simple fact is that, on a software/firmware level, the iPod Touch has been camera-ready since its birth.

Apparently it hasnt been. Youre again asserting that Apple has purposely left it out since the first Touch for no technical reason. The iPhone having a camera has no baring on the Touch having a camera as their sizes are quite different.

Quote:
That Apple has missed a deadline that has been two years coming is just as poor execution as - if not worse than - the botched MBP driver issue or the clumsy MobileMe launch. Everyone who knew anything about the iPod Touch was expecting a camera, regardless of whether some tech idiot found a space for one or not.

Expecting something as god given right on an unreleased item from a company that reveals very little about their products beforehand is going to lead to a lot of disappointment.

Quote:
This was, in my opinion, an unacceptable error on Apple's part. You don't have to agree with me, but I do find it surprising that you don't find it more disappointing than you currently seem to.

Why would I be disappointed or upset? A company either offers a product I need or want or they dont. They are breaking no laws. From an academic standpoint Id like to know the exact reason for having the obvious space for a camera but not including it but the answer doesnt affect me one way or the other. It is what it is.
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post #89 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apparently it hasnt been. Youre again asserting that Apple has purposely left it out since the first Touch for no technical reason. The iPhone having a camera has no baring on the Touch having a camera as their sizes are quite different.

Perhaps I'm not explaining this clearly enough: Since the hardware, firmware, and software inside the Touch are identical to the hw/fw/sw which support the camera feature in the iPhone, the Touch, by default, has been compatible with the camera used in the iPhone. I call that camera-ready.

The limiting factor, however, was the form-factor, necessitating a different, smaller camera module. That doesn't mean starting completely from scratch for Apple, it just means making the existing hw/fw/sw compatible with the camera via a driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Expecting something as god given right on an unreleased item from a company that reveals very little about their products beforehand is going to lead to a lot of disappointment.

What are you even saying? Nowhere did I say anyone thought it was his god-given right to get a camera! That completely different from expecting the presence of a certain feature in a product update.

If MS announced it there were going to update the Zune, you'd expect it to address which will bring it better marketability, say, support for apps. Just as I don't find it cocky or entitled to expect that feature, I don't find it cocky or entitled to expect the iPod Touch to address one of its missing features: a camera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why would I be disappointed or upset? A company either offers a product I need or want or they dont. They are breaking no laws. From an academic standpoint Id like to know the exact reason for having the obvious space for a camera but not including it but the answer doesnt affect me one way or the other. It is what it is.

WTF? What does breaking laws have to do with anything?

Soli, I usually like to think that you're more intelligent than the average Apple Fanboy, but there are certain times when I see you fall into the method of relegating Apple's criticizers into whiny entitled brats. While I could just as well tell you that you don't have a god-given right to a seamless MobileMe launch or working MBP drivers, I don't because I, too, understand that no company is perfect. What I am saying, however, is that the iPod Touch with camera was inevitable from the very beginning. To be without it after three generations is a serious omission, in my opinion. Though the attempt was obviously made, apparently not enough measures were taken to avoid this outcome.

Again, you don't have to agree, but I am not understanding why you deem this any less serious than one of the other examples you listed.
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post #90 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post


Soli, I usually like to think that you're more intelligent than the average Apple Fanboy, but there are certain times when I see you fall into the method of relegating Apple's criticizers into whiny entitled brats. While I could just as well tell you that you don't have a god-given right to a seamless MobileMe launch or working MBP drivers, I don't because I, too, understand that no company is perfect. What I am saying, however, is that the iPod Touch with camera was inevitable from the very beginning. To be without it after three generations is a serious omission, in my opinion. Though the attempt was obviously made, apparently not enough measures were taken to avoid this outcome.

Again, you don't have to agree, but I am not understanding why you deem this any less serious than one of the other examples you listed.

There's a difference between things not working as designed and things not including features you want. You appear to want to argue that the Touch is "broken" as long as it doesn't include a camera, because a camera is so obvious, necessary or inevitable. It's none of those things, it's just a feature you want.
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post #91 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Perhaps I'm not explaining this clearly enough: Since the hardware, firmware, and software inside the Touch are identical to the hw/fw/sw which support the camera feature in the iPhone, the Touch, by default, has been compatible with the camera used in the iPhone. I call that camera-ready.

But none of the cameras for the iPhone can fit into the Touch. The only one that could fit is the one in the Nano.

Speculating and having a hardened theory as to what really happened is fine, but we cant rule out a technical issue that caused them to scrape it despite expecting to include it.

Quote:
The limiting factor, however, was the form-factor, necessitating a different, smaller camera module. That doesn't mean starting completely from scratch for Apple, it just means making the existing hw/fw/sw compatible with the camera via a driver.

Never said it did, but its possible this particular camera hardware didnt play nice with the iPhone OS or the Touchs logic board or connector. Weve seen plenty of things from Apple that should work but dont for some unknown reason. Bluetooth and Wireless seems to be common complaints in Macs.

Quote:
What are you even saying? Nowhere did I say anyone thought it was his god-given right to get a camera! That completely different from expecting the presence of a certain feature in a product update.

I went overboard with the wording. My apologies for that, but I never expect a company do do anything that they havent promised and essentially set in stone. I hope certain things come with the next revision but would bet odds that certain features will come but I will not get upset if it doesnt. If it doesnt suit my needs Ill

Quote:
WTF? What does breaking laws have to do with anything?

If a company has broken no laws or no promised I wont get upset by what they release. Its that simple. I scrutinize a new product and will get it or not get based on my needs and wants. No more, no less. Its not personal. And while Im certain that my next phone will be an iPhone and my next notebook will be a Mac I would not hesitate to choose another brand if their products suited my needs better. Of course, my desire to use OS X over other platforms makes very unlikely. At most Id likely just stick with what I have longer instead of buying new HW every year.

Quote:
What I am saying, however, is that the iPod Touch with camera was inevitable from the very beginning. To be without it after three generations is a serious omission, in my opinion. Though the attempt was obviously made, apparently not enough measures were taken to avoid this outcome.

Again, you don't have to agree, but I am not understanding why you deem this any less serious than one of the other examples you listed.

I see the MobileMe launch as more serious because the QoS that was expected was not had for 4 days. We ended up getting 2 free months out of it since they did lack in their service. The SATA connector is a little less compelling from a potential lawsuit since Apple never guarantied a 3Gbps SATA connector or acceptable use with any and all drives at time of purchase, but the mindset for many years past was 3Gbps and any drive with the right connector would work. Your concern falls somewhat below these, IMO, since you werent promised a camera at any time from Apple and no other Touch before it had a camera.

For all intents and purposes I expected a camera in the Touch, too, especially after the cheaper and smaller Nano got one, but I dont expect Apple to provide it because we expected it. Again, I dont know whether the reasoning was technical or financial but with the cost of the HW and the time spent already working to include it it simply doesnt make sense to me that it was a financial so it has to be technical. In what way, I dont know.
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post #92 of 93
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Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, it isn't. There is no interpolation in optical zoom. Why use digital zoom when you can get better results using iPhoto, where you can fine-tune your framing from the fully-framed shot? That's why I never use digital zoom in any device.

If you don't understand that, I'll make it simple: a digitally zoomed picture will be blurrier at the same resolution than the same shot made with optical zoom.

Maybe what they need is an optical sensor array that simulates a larger lens in software (similar to what is done with ground-based telescopes). Then with a cluster of, oh, I dunno, 6 or 8 sensors, 3D or large scale lenses could be virtually modeled.

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post #93 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

Me, I want a Touch with a camera or an iPhone without AT&T, whichever comes first.

Buy it where exclusivity has fallen (like in France), if you have 600 euros to spend...
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