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End of iPhone exclusivity means boosted sales in Europe - Page 2

post #41 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Spoken like someone who doesn't drop half a dozen calls every day.

It was a brilliant move because AT&T gave Steve Jobs a kick back to be the exclusive carrier, which he promptly spent on his new liver.

Now that he is healthy (live long and prosper Steve-O) he no longer needs the extra money and can now give me the choice to pick the best carrier for the area that I live in. I would choose a 64 gig Verizon iPhone. Not because Verizon is better, just because they are better for me.

Everyone should have the choice.

Yeah, but that's not the same as what you're asking for which seems to be, "everyone should have every choice." If you want the iPhone you do have a choice: switch. And, restrict yourself to 32GB.

PS: The swipe about SJ's liver was an unnecessary cheap shot.
post #42 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I think the volumes of interest in unlocking is evidence you're looking for. If people were satisfied with the carrier selection, why would so many people unlock?

I suppose that widespread pay as you go plans in EU have something to do with that.
post #43 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

AT&T was no mistake. It was, in fact, a brilliant move by Apple.

It was a brilliant move at the time, but it's become a millstone around Apple's neck. Imagine the growth potential with iPhone available at any vendor one wants. I'm sure most shareholders would rather see Apple dominating on all fronts, rather than needlessly allow Droid and it's ilk to gain even one percent of sales.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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GOA

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post #44 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

That was early in the 2G iphone world when there were only UK, France and Germany selling the iphone and there were a lot of "missing" American iphones that were unlocked and exported.

It has nothing to do with whether consumers are satisfied with their carrier selection because the only way an Italian consumer could get an iphone in early 2008 was to buy an unlocked iphone because Apple hasn't launched the iphone in Italy yet.

Certainly that had something to do with it, but unlocking still exists and is still a big deal. If you type "iPhone" into your search bar, what populates the suggestion list? "iPhone Verizon" is #2, and "iPhone Dev Team" is #7. People are interested in using the iPhone outside of AT&T.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidi4n View Post

I suppose that widespread pay as you go plans in EU have something to do with that.

Certainly. That only adds to the validity of my point that iPhone carriers are not selling the iPhone + service in the way people want to use it.

-Clive
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post #45 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I think the volumes of interest in unlocking is evidence you're looking for. If people were satisfied with the carrier selection, why would so many people unlock? AI reported last year that up to 40% of iPhones in Europe were unlocked...

That's pretty poor evidence!
,,, and it's a report from 2 years ago... not last year.

At the time iPhone was available in only 3 European countries.
post #46 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It was a brilliant move at the time, but it's become a millstone around Apple's neck. Imagine the growth potential with iPhone available at any vendor one wants. I'm sure most shareholders would rather see Apple dominating on all fronts, rather than needlessly allow Droid and it's ilk to gain even one percent of sales.

It looks like it will end at the next iPhone cycle. But will Apple go with a new radio in the next one for the T-Mobile USA or build a a CDMA-based iPhone for Verizon and/or Sprint? There are pros and cons for each. Id wager that going with hybrid GSM/CDMA-based iPhone is out of the question.
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post #47 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I think the volumes of interest in unlocking is evidence you're looking for. If people were satisfied with the carrier selection, why would so many people unlock? AI reported last year that up to 40% of iPhones in Europe were unlocked... That was, of course, before Apple killed iTunes activation in favor of in-store only activation.

If that's not evidence enough, I don't know what is...

-Clive

Your evidence is not evidence, it's hearsay.

"The latest claims come by way of RBC Capital analyst Mike Abramsky, who in a research report to clients Monday said his checks with European resellers indicate unlocked units are accounting for as much as 40 percent of iPhone sales at some stores.

Slightly ahead of estimates by fellow analysts at Piper Jaffray, Abramsky also believes that unlocked iPhones comprise as much as 27 percent of US sales. Combined, he said, between 25 and 30 percent of iPhones have thus far been sold to with the intent that they'd later be operated unlocked."

I'm surprised you'd post that without reading past the headline. It's just what some ibanker got from some unnamed reseller. Note also the weakener "as much as". Pretty weak evidence.

Finally, interest in unlocking doesn't tell you anything about what happens in a totally different market. We all know that plenty of people switched to ATT to get the iPhone. So in Europe, how many people bought an unlocked iPhone rather than switching (from their Verizon to ATT)?

You can be certain that far fewer people switched carriers in Europe for the iPhone since they could just buy it unlocked for more and use it on other networks.
post #48 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You really think that Apple singed exclusivity agreements with AT&T in 2005 so Jobs could get a liver in 2009? I think you just took Teckstuds crown.

Why are you so obssessed with me? Dude, get a life.
You even mention me in your signature now?
I'm like being stalked by you.
post #49 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

That's pretty poor evidence!
,,, and it's a report from 2 years ago... not last year.

At the time iPhone was available in only 3 European countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Your evidence is not evidence, it's hearsay.

"The latest claims come by way of RBC Capital analyst Mike Abramsky, who in a research report to clients Monday said his checks with European resellers indicate unlocked units are accounting for as much as 40 percent of iPhone sales at some stores.

Slightly ahead of estimates by fellow analysts at Piper Jaffray, Abramsky also believes that unlocked iPhones comprise as much as 27 percent of US sales. Combined, he said, between 25 and 30 percent of iPhones have thus far been sold to with the intent that they'd later be operated unlocked."

I'm surprised you'd post that without reading past the headline. It's just what some ibanker got from some unnamed reseller. Note also the weakener "as much as". Pretty weak evidence.

Finally, interest in unlocking doesn't tell you anything about what happens in a totally different market. We all know that plenty of people switched to ATT to get the iPhone. So in Europe, how many people bought an unlocked iPhone rather than switching (from their Verizon to ATT)?

You can be certain that far fewer people switched carriers in Europe for the iPhone since they could just buy it unlocked for more and use it on other networks.

And you'll also you'll notice that I said "up to 40%." I never said that 40% was proven fact, I simply quoted the premise of an AI article... why are you arguing that point so vehemently?

My position is that the popularity of unlocking (or desire to do so) is easily strong enough to conclude that Apple could've had substantially higher sales volumes of the iPhone to potential Verizon customers. The fact that "iPhone Verizon" is number two in your google search bar says it all.

The fact that unlocks exist at all is evidence to support that carriers are not meeting the needs of their consumer base, what's so hard to agree upon about that?

-Clive
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post #50 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Spoken like someone who doesn't drop half a dozen calls every day.

It was a brilliant move because AT&T gave Steve Jobs a kick back to be the exclusive carrier, which he promptly spent on his new liver.

Now that he is healthy (live long and prosper Steve-O) he no longer needs the extra money and can now give me the choice to pick the best carrier for the area that I live in. I would choose a 64 gig Verizon iPhone. Not because Verizon is better, just because they are better for me.

Everyone should have the choice.

Absolutely brilliant response (if you have shit for brains)
post #51 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think maybe it's a bit much to expect Apple to be in charge of bringing competition to the US cell industry.

No, but they have a interest in not participating by selling more units to either side and let them compete on their own merits.

RIM's devices are available on multiple US carriers.
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post #52 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Well you're certainly right about the incompatible systems, and I don't have any complaints about the short-term single-carrier roll-outs, but what's left to be explained is the absurdly long duration of their U.S. AT&T exclusivity.

Or perhaps Apple knows we Americans won't comparison shop, nor abstain from a product with whose terms of use we do not like and therefore decided to take advantage of our idiotic weakness.

-Clive

Given how things have gone in the rest of the world, with multi-carrier deals leading to increased market share, it's hard to imagine Apple being perversely stubborn in the US market just for the hell of it, or because they're anti-competitive, or don't like us, or whatever.

I'm not privy to the particulars of Apple's negotiations and terms with any given carrier, but I have to assume they have their reasons for continuing AT&T exclusivity beyond being assholes.
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post #53 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

RIM's devices are available on multiple US carriers.

But not all of RiMs devices are on all carriers. They do exclusivity like every other major vendor. Lets not forget that Apple is new to the mobile business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Given how things have gone in the rest of the world, with multi-carrier deals leading to increased market share, it's hard to imagine Apple being perversely stubborn in the US market just for the hell of it, or because they're anti-competitive, or don't like us, or whatever.

I'm not privy to the particulars of Apple's negotiations and terms with any given carrier, but I have to assume they have their reasons for continuing AT&T exclusivity beyond being assholes.

By the best estimates the exclusivity will go until June 2010. After that the path seems less certain. There are some major pros and cons for Apple to stay with AT&T or to go with another carrier. To go with any other carrier in the US means to rework the hardware. This is unique to the US, save for Apple having to apparently remove the WiFi antenna from China Unicom iPhones for a few months.

Does it really seem like Apple to stock 3 devices in each capacity to satisfy each carrier. One for Verizon, one for Sprint and one for T-Mobile and AT&T with the additional spectrum added? On the surface it would seem easier to easier to just sell with T-Mobile who needs the business and who they already have a relationship with the parent company.
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post #54 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But not all of RiMs devices are on all carriers. They do exclusivity like every other major vendor. Lets not forget that Apple is new to the mobile business.

Apple may be, but their staff are not, they hired a lot of people with a lot of experience in the mobile industry, they purchased knowledge
post #55 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Apple may be, but their staff are not, they hired a lot of people with a lot of experience in the mobile industry, they purchased knowledge

Hiring people with experience isn't remotely the same as real, in the field experience. Rolling out a new platform worldwide, a platform that arguably will prove to be central to Apple's fortunes in the decade to come (and in a field in which you have never competed involving entrenched players as partners), calls for patience, prudence and baby steps. And, you have to make sure each of those steps is working well before moving on to the next, because you're building the foundation of a new business that you expect to grow for years to come.

That's how Apple has done it, and it's hard to argue with the results. Outside of AT&T's inability to keep up with the massive increase in data usage, the iPhone has proven to be a rock-solid platform, with a stable, consistent presentation world wide, with stable, consistent access to software upgrades and apps. There's not another phone/platform on the market with this level of unified branding and unified user experience.

If Apple had just launched broadly across multiple carriers, or particularly in the US had launched with Verizon and whatever changes/restrictions they would have extracted (yes, I know they're getting better, but we're talking about negotiations a few years ago at a time they didn't sell a single un-Verizonized phone) I don't think that would be the case, no matter how many industry veterans Apple may have brought on board.
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post #56 of 101
I thought NOKIA is Europe and Europe is NOkia...where is Nokia?......well people are smart nowadays...they dont like a phone that keeps on evolving into all the letters in the alphabet in form and design, yet internally inothing changes, same carppy and lousy OS with no apps whatsoever only their snakes games present LOL

I am looking forward when Nokia filed for bancrapsy their company is in the doldrum and nearing extinction..
post #57 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

My position is that the popularity of unlocking (or desire to do so) is easily strong enough to conclude that Apple could've had substantially higher sales volumes of the iPhone to potential Verizon customers. The fact that "iPhone Verizon" is number two in your google search bar says it all.

And since Apple has had rolling shortages, those sales to Verizon customers would have been lost elsewhere in the world, gaining Apple exactly zero new revenue. Couple that with the higher costs associated, and the weakness of what you're suggesting is obvious.
post #58 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That's how Apple has done it, and it's hard to argue with the results. Outside of AT&T's inability to keep up with the massive increase in data usage, the iPhone has proven to be a rock-solid platform, with a stable, consistent presentation world wide, with stable, consistent access to software upgrades and apps. There's not another phone/platform on the market with this level of unified branding and unified user experience.

I just wish we could see the CV of the people questioning Apple's business decisions on the iPhone. It's a frigging business school case study in how to whip the ass of huge well entrenched conglomerates in just two years and make it look EASY for god's sake. And yet there are dummies with enough time to post on a message board all day who think they know enough to improve those decisions?
post #59 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I just wish we could see the CV of the people questioning Apple's business decisions on the iPhone. It's a frigging business school case study in how to whip the ass of huge well entrenched conglomerates in just two years and make it look EASY for god's sake. And yet there are dummies with enough time to post on a message board all day who think they know enough to improve those decisions?

Quoted for truth
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post #60 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayeng98 View Post

I thought NOKIA is Europe and Europe is NOkia...where is Nokia?......well people are smart nowadays...they dont like a phone that keeps on evolving into all the letters in the alphabet in form and design, yet internally inothing changes, same carppy and lousy OS with no apps whatsoever only their snakes games present LOL

I am looking forward when Nokia filed for bancrapsy their company is in the doldrum and nearing extinction..

Dont count Nokia out just yet. They still have a market cap of $50B USD and they are the #1 handset vendor in revenue and the #2 handset vendor in operating profits, only recently being beat out by Apple.

Everyone has been caught off guard by Apples success in the marketeven Apple themselvesbut its opened up the doors for a whole era of expensive handsets and guaranteed data plans that are drive a lot of innovation. RiM has been selling a lot more handsets and I think a lot of that has to do with the iPhone.

Nokia has Maemo and Firefox has been ported successfully as Fennec (a name for a small fox breed, get it?). Even if Nokia doesnt have winning HW, OS or app store this year they still have a a long time before they will even have to consider throwing in the towel. They can restructure and rebuild many times over before that happens. Apple was down to $5B USD market cap and they are now on the heels of MicroSoft.
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post #61 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayeng98 View Post

I thought NOKIA is Europe and Europe is NOkia...where is Nokia?......well people are smart nowadays...they dont like a phone that keeps on evolving into all the letters in the alphabet in form and design, yet internally inothing changes, same carppy and lousy OS with no apps whatsoever only their snakes games present LOL

I am looking forward when Nokia filed for bancrapsy their company is in the doldrum and nearing extinction..

I'm looking forward to when you learn to spell.
post #62 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

And you'll also you'll notice that I said "up to 40%." I never said that 40% was proven fact, I simply quoted the premise of an AI article... why are you arguing that point so vehemently?

Because an article from two years ago does not reflect the iPhone landscape of today......

.... and citing "Google, Verizon" search hits is even worse! Have you seen any of the hundreds of AT&T/ Verizon / iPhone news stories posted recently?
post #63 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Hiring people with experience isn't remotely the same as real, in the field experience. Rolling out a new platform worldwide, a platform that arguably will prove to be central to Apple's fortunes in the decade to come (and in a field in which you have never competed involving entrenched players as partners), calls for patience, prudence and baby steps. And, you have to make sure each of those steps is working well before moving on to the next, because you're building the foundation of a new business that you expect to grow for years to come.

So hiring people with real world experience isn't the same as having real world experience? You have a strange logic. Also, Apple didn't roll out a new platform worldwide, if you remember correctly it was limited to the US for some time.
post #64 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

So hiring people with real world experience isn't the same as having real world experience? You have a strange logic. Also, Apple didn't roll out a new platform worldwide, if you remember correctly it was limited to the US for some time.

Having new hires with some experience across various components of an industry is not the same as having actual corporate-wide experience with making all the parts work together. It's the difference between planning and executing. I can't imagine why you would think having some new hires in the mix would give Apple the confidence to go full blast out of the gate, when they could do what they did: test the waters, take it step at a time, make sure they were getting it right before going on to the next bit. Why is that a problem, and what are you even arguing in favor of?

As far as US vs. world roll out, obviously the US rollout was the first step in the global rollout, for the simple reason it was easier for Apple to learn the needed lessons close to home, where they could be on top of the situation, before working with carriers in other countries. Again, this seems pretty self evident and I'm not sure what your actual point of contention is.
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post #65 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I just wish we could see the CV of the people questioning Apple's business decisions on the iPhone. It's a frigging business school case study in how to whip the ass of huge well entrenched conglomerates in just two years and make it look EASY for god's sake. And yet there are dummies with enough time to post on a message board all day who think they know enough to improve those decisions?

Agree completely. Well put.
post #66 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Having new hires with some experience across various components of an industry is not the same as having actual corporate-wide experience with making all the parts work together. It's the difference between planning and executing. I can't imagine why you would think having some new hires in the mix would give Apple the confidence to go full blast out of the gate, when they could do what they did: test the waters, take it step at a time, make sure they were getting it right before going on to the next bit. Why is that a problem, and what are you even arguing in favor of?

I'm not sure why you claim they had no experience when they actually had experience. Apple had plently of experience selling electronic devices around the world, infact they have been doing it for a number of years. They hired people that had experience in the mobile industry, to fill the gaps for the experience they were missing, but to say they had none, that is naive

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

As far as US vs. world roll out, obviously the US rollout was the first step in the global rollout, for the simple reason it was easier for Apple to learn the needed lessons close to home, where they could be on top of the situation, before working with carriers in other countries. Again, this seems pretty self evident and I'm not sure what your actual point of contention is.

You said they did a world wide roll out, they didn't, that is a fact, that is my point of contention, if you can prove a US rollout is infact a world one one, you would have a point, but since you can't, I'm not sure what you actual point of contention is.
post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I'm not sure why you claim they had no experience when they actually had experience. Apple had plently of experience selling electronic devices around the world, infact they have been doing it for a number of years. They hired people that had experience in the mobile industry, to fill the gaps for the experience they were missing, but to say they had none, that is naive.

1) Hiring some HW and SW techs to help with phone HW and SW is not the same as starting a business selling phones.

2) Selling PMPs is not the same as getting contracts with telcos to sell a phone. If it was so obvious then Verizon would have signed with Apple without seeing a product because they had 85% of the PMP market under their belt.

3) Have you completely forgotten the pundits and many others stating that Apple is going to have a hard time coming into this entrenched market with no experience? Do I really need to bring out Palm, Nokias and Ballmer quotes to remind you?
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post #68 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I'm not sure why you claim they had no experience when they actually had experience. Apple had plently of experience selling electronic devices around the world, infact they have been doing it for a number of years. They hired people that had experience in the mobile industry, to fill the gaps for the experience they were missing, but to say they had none, that is naive

Entering the phone business if different from selling iPods and computers. It involves relationships with cell carriers, and a bunch of cell industry specific regulation, custom and particulars.

I've never said they had no one on staff with any expertise, I'm just maintaining that they did well to do things slowly, learning as they go. I don't understand why anyone would take exception to this idea.

Quote:
You said they did a world wide roll out, they didn't, that is a fact, that is my point of contention, if you can prove a US rollout is infact a world one one, you would have a point, but since you can't, I'm not sure what you actual point of contention is.

Sigh. They did a world wide rollout, starting with the United States. It took some time to extend to other markets. To say otherwise would be to imagine that they never intended to sell the iPhone anywhere but the US, and elected to go international sometime after the fact, which of course we know is not the case. We speak of cell carriers doing national rollout of services, even when they start with a few markets. It's, how do you say, a common way of putting it. Hence, rolling out, as opposed to abruptly appearing everywhere at once.

"I know you are but what am I" isn't a very strong rhetorical tactic, amongst grown ups.
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post #69 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

To say otherwise would be to imagine that they never intended to sell the iPhone anywhere but the US, and elected to go international sometime after the fact, which of course we know is not the case.

Some people think Apple never conceived of or intended to launch an iPhone SDK. That the web apps were the only apps that Apple intended people to use since they didnt have the SDK ready at launch. I really dont understand these people and if not for internet forums id likely not think they existed at all.
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post #70 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I've never said they had no one on staff with any expertise, I'm just maintaining that they did well to do things slowly, learning as they go. I don't understand why anyone would take exception to this idea.

I haven't, I am taking exception to people saying they didn't have any experience in this field, because they did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Sigh. They did a world wide rollout, starting with the United States. It took some time to extend to other markets. To say otherwise would be to imagine that they never intended to sell the iPhone anywhere but the US, and elected to go international sometime after the fact, which of course we know is not the case. We speak of cell carriers doing national rollout of services, even when they start with a few markets. It's, how do you say, a common way of putting it. Hence, rolling out, as opposed to abruptly appearing everywhere at once.

"I know you are but what am I" isn't a very strong rhetorical tactic, amongst grown ups.

A worldwide rollout involves rolling out to the whole world, technically they are still a long way off it. The orginal iPhone was only released in the US, then some 18 months later in three other countries, even if they had the intention of rolling out to the whole world, taking near on two years to enter a second market doesn't make it world wide.

What they have done is a slow staged rollout
post #71 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Hiring some HW and SW techs to help with phone HW and SW is not the same as starting a business selling phones.

I didn't say it was, I said they didn't start this project with zero experience, they purchased experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

2) Selling PMPs is not the same as getting contracts with telcos to sell a phone. If it was so obvious then Verizon would have signed with Apple without seeing a product because they had 85% of the PMP market under their belt.

I didn't say it was, I said that Apple had significant experience in the distribution and sales of hardware

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Hiring some HW and SW techs to help with phone HW and SW is not the same as starting a business selling phones.

I didn't say it was, I said they didn't start this project with zero experience, they purchased experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

3) Have you completely forgotten the pundits and many others stating that Apple is going to have a hard time coming into this entrenched market with no experience? Do I really need to bring out Palm, Nokias and Ballmer quotes to remind you?

Why would you, I haven't said they didn't have any experience, I am the one saying they purchased experience in this market, they hired people to help them, that equates to them having previous experience
post #72 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

A worldwide rollout involves rolling out to the whole world, technically they are still a long way off it. The orginal iPhone was only released in the US, then some 18 months later in three other countries, even if they had the intention of rolling out to the whole world, taking near on two years to enter a second market doesn't make it world wide.

What they have done is a slow staged rollout

By your definition there is likely not a single physical product that is available legally for the entire world. Hell, Brazil just the PS2 at a staggering $460 USD. You can by a PS3 and a couple games for that much.

BTW, the original iPhone launched on June 29th, 2007 in the US, the UK and German iPhone launch was November 9th, 2007 and the French iPhone launch was November 29th, 2007. At 12 month and a few days the iPhone 3G launched in 22 countries with more slated for the rest of the year. By about 18 months, which you said it took to get 4 countries on board, the iPhone was sold in upwards to 70 countries.

PS: The iPhone was shown to be used around the world with months of originally launching due to the profit sharing situation that required no contract at purchase and the fast jailbreak and unlock that arrived.
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post #73 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Because an article from two years ago does not reflect the iPhone landscape of today......

.... and citing "Google, Verizon" search hits is even worse! Have you seen any of the hundreds of AT&T/ Verizon / iPhone news stories posted recently?

Oh yeah, I bet 90% of the people searching "iPhone Verizon" are looking for news articles... HAH!

And I also bet that most of the people searching for "iPhone Dev Team" are looking for informational purposes only...

Delusion, perhaps?

Like I said before: the fact that unlocks exist is evidence that carriers are not offering the right services, or are not available altogether.

-Clive
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post #74 of 101
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Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Why would you, I haven't said they didn't have any experience, I am the one saying they purchased experience in this market, they hired people to help them, that equates to them having previous experience

Previous means existing or occurring before. Apple, the company, had no such experience. Hiring people that have experience in the cell phone market doesn’t change the fact that Apple, the company, has had no prior experience with the cell phone market.

Again by your definition if Apple hiring an aspiring car designer turned computer designer Apple could now make a great car because the company has experience designing cars because one of their designers worked as an intern for Ariel one summer. Quite absurd, isn’t it?
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post #75 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

By your definition there is likely not a single physical product that is available legally for the entire world. Hell, Brazil just the PS2 at a staggering $460 USD. You can by a PS3 and a couple games for that much.

If you want to read it that way, that is fine. But at the end of the day, the iPhone was not a world wide release, that is a fact, and you cannot get away from that. I might have got my dates slightly wrong, but they took nearly a year to get to 10 countries, and yet you still claim that is a world wide release?

And you claim about the 70 countries in 18 months, 18 months and still claiming the original phone was a world wide release?


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: The iPhone was shown to be used around the world with months of originally launching due to the profit sharing situation that required no contract at purchase and the fast jailbreak and unlock that arrived.

I'm not sure what you point is, people have been importing phones for years, it is nothing new, and will continue to be nothing new for years to come.
post #76 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Previous means existing or occurring before. Apple, the company, had no such experience. Hiring people that have experience in the cell phone market doesnt change the fact that Apple, the company, has had no prior experience with the cell phone market.

Apple the company is a collection of a whole bunch of things, one being their knowledge, their knowledge is made up of a variety of things, one being their employees. They hired employees with previous experience in the mobile industry, that means Apple had previous experience through their newly purchased knowledge.

To even think that Apple entered this industry with no knowledge at all is highly naive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Again by your definition if Apple hiring an aspiring car designer turned computer designer Apple could now make a great car because the company has experience designing cars because one of their designers worked as an intern for Ariel one summer. Quite absurd, isnt it?

Well it is if you write stupid things like that, but that isn't what I said.
post #77 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

If you want to read it that way, that is fine. But at the end of the day, the iPhone was not a world wide release, that is a fact, and you cannot get away from that. I might have got my dates slightly wrong, but they took nearly a year to get to 10 countries, and yet you still claim that is a world wide release?

Slightly wrong? You were over a year off on your 18 month assertion on a phone that has been on the market less than 2.5 years.

So your argument is a bogus since no physical product can feasibly be worldwide. The iPhone won’t even work in Antarctica or the Amazon due to the acceptable climate and humidity range on the device and until sell they set up a cell tower on the Pitcairn Islands then no phone will ever be worldwide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Well it is if you write stupid things like that, but that isn't what I said.

You are the one saying that hiring someone with experience in a field means that the company has had prior experience, not me.
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post #78 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Oh yeah, I bet 90% of the people searching "iPhone Verizon" are looking for news articles... HAH!

I don't know what they are looking for.... but that's what they are getting.

You forget that most people (who are interested in the iPhone) don't give a shit about this constant AT&T vs Verizon bickering.


Quote:
And I also bet that most of the people searching for "iPhone Dev Team" are looking for informational purposes only...

I don't understand what that even means. Of course they are looking for information. But Google "suggestions" prove nothing in themselves.


Quote:
Delusion, perhaps?

No. Rational!

Like so many people on this forum you just fail to look at the big picture. Apple is in this for the long haul. Apple is building a whole new mobile platform here. So what, if a couple of million Americans have to wait a bit longer for the iPhone to come to their carrier of choice?

Did you read the article title? So perhaps the "End of iPhone exclusivity" is taking a little longer to occur in the US. Be patient. Apple is.
post #79 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Did you read the article title? So perhaps the "End of iPhone exclusivity" is taking a little longer to occur in the US. Be patient. Apple is.

The best assumption seems to be 2 years plus one additional year for AT&T to agree to cutting profit sharing. That means June 2010 as the end of the line for AT&T as the exclusive carrier but what does that mean for the other US carriers. The newer chips over the current Infineon 608 is the 616 and 618 which both have support for up to 5 HSPA bands. I have no idea how many bands the 608 supports.

Looking at the big picture do you think Apple will make a Verizon and/Sprint CDMA phone locked to each carrier and sold alongside their GSM-based phone, with or without the additional 3G band for T-Mobile?
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post #80 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Slightly wrong? You were over a year off on your 18 month assertion on a phone that has been on the market less than 2.5 years.

It still doesn't distract from the fact that the original iPhone release was not world wide, heck the fact that it didn't include 3G support is a great example of the fact that they didn't have the intention of releasing that phone to a large number of countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So your argument is a bogus since no physical product can feasibly be worldwide. The iPhone wont even work in Antarctica or the Amazon due to the acceptable climate and humidity range on the device and until sell they set up a cell tower on the Pitcairn Islands then no phone will ever be worldwide.

You are the only one saying that every country in the world (Antarctica isn't a country by the way) is required for a world wide release, I am saying that releasing it in only the US (and then to only five other counties) doesn't make it world wide.

Also you can get sat phone reception on Pitcairn Island, so there is one there, but since there is only a population of 50, not sure why you would need one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You are the one saying that hiring someone with experience in a field means that the company has had prior experience, not me.

Yip I am, it is a fact, get used to it.
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