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End of iPhone exclusivity means boosted sales in Europe - Page 3

post #81 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

It still doesn't distract from the fact that the original iPhone release was not world wide, heck the fact that it didn't include 3G support is a great example of the fact that they didn't have the intention of releasing that phone to a large number of countries.

Even if a physical product would theoretically be launched worldwide how exactly do you expect it a product like the iPhone to be produced in such supply to be released to every country in the world at the exact same time. They cant even keep it in supply as it is.

Note that movies are often released worldwide and are listed with worldwide stats for ticket numbers or sales for each country. Despite this listing they are often staggered a couple days to months apart and never reach every single country in the world.

Quote:
You are the only one saying that every country in the world (Antarctica isn't a country by the way) is required for a world wide release, I am saying that releasing it in only the US (and then to only five other counties) doesn't make it world wide.

Your literal definition was worldwide not countries around the world and I seem to recall that Antarctica is located in the world. Its like saying that District of Columbia is not the United States of America because its not a state. Its funny when Colbert says it because we know hes not serious.
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post #82 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Even if a physical product would theoretically be launched worldwide how exactly do you expect it a product like the iPhone to be produced in such supply to be released to every country in the world at the exact same time. They cant even keep it in supply as it is.

Let me give you example of a company that manages to do it, they release their new devices world wide, they sell iPod's, MacBooks etc, they are Apple, hey wait, they are they same people that sell the iPhone, so they can produce enough iPod's to do a world wide release, but couldn't produce enough iPhones

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Note that movies are often released worldwide and are listed with worldwide stats for ticket numbers or sales for each country. Despite this listing they are often staggered a couple days to months apart and never reach every single country in the world.

Yes they are, but they are a staged released when they are released several months apart, generally for financial reasons, but it is the same thing, it isn't a world wide release when the rest of the world gets the item several months later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your literal definition was worldwide not countries around the world and I seem to recall that Antarctica is located in the world. Its like saying that District of Columbia is not the United States of America because its not a state. Its funny when Colbert says it because we know hes not serious.

Well unless they want to sell the iPhone to a penguin or seal then I'm not sure why they would want to release it in Antarctica. You were the one who mentioned that no one releases to every country in the world, then you mentioned Antarctica, which isn't a country, that is also a fact, so you little speech about DC isn't comparible to the fact that Antarctica isn't a country.
post #83 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Let me give you example of a company that manages to do it, they release their new devices world wide, they sell iPod's, MacBooks etc, they are Apple, hey wait, they are they same people that sell the iPhone, so they can produce enough iPod's to do a world wide release, but couldn't produce enough iPhones

Nope, they don’t, according to your very literal definition. You are on this forum enough to know people complain that the Apple US gets new Macs before other countries’ online Apple Stores have even been updated with the new hardware. And you should know that Macs are sold in lot less countries than the iPhone is currently sold in. Just look at the worldwide stats that Apple releases each quarter. No physical product can go from from not being available to the 6.7B people in the world one day to being available the next. You really should revise your definition. Worldwide for business just means widespread international sales, nothing more nothing less.

Here is the OAD 2nd Edition’s synonyms for worldwide…
adjective
- global, international, intercontinental, universal; ubiquitous, extensive, widespread, far-reaching, wide-ranging, all-embracing.
ANTONYMS local.
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post #84 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

I don't know what they are looking for.... but that's what they are getting.

You forget that most people (who are interested in the iPhone) don't give a shit about this constant AT&T vs Verizon bickering.

No, they don't, but the people who are Googling "iPhone Verizon" are certainly looking for something in particular, obviously!

Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

I don't understand what that even means. Of course they are looking for information. But Google "suggestions" prove nothing in themselves.

Google suggestions are populated by search volume. That means the second most common search phrase beginning with "iPhone" is "iPhone Verizon." The seventh most popular is "iPhone Dev Team," which ought to tell you something about the interest there is in unlocking one's phone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Like so many people on this forum you just fail to look at the big picture. Apple is in this for the long haul. Apple is building a whole new mobile platform here. So what, if a couple of million Americans have to wait a bit longer for the iPhone to come to their carrier of choice?

Did you read the article title? So perhaps the "End of iPhone exclusivity" is taking a little longer to occur in the US. Be patient. Apple is.

What are you even talking about? I'm not being impatient. I could personally care less when the iPhone comes to Verizon. I'm saying that -based on the obvious interest in Verizon iPhones and iPhone unlocking - Apple probably missed out on unit sales by being exclusive as long as they were. That's not to say that they missed out on revenues...

As I said earlier, handset-unlocking is a side effect of carriers not providing the services consumers are looking for, or the carriers are not available altogether. Now Verizon is a unique case in that an unlocked iPhone won't work with them, but interest in a Verizon iPhone is evidenced by the hierarchy of Google Suggestions, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not.
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post #85 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Nope, they dont, according to your very literal definition. You are on this forum enough to know people complain that the Apple US gets new Macs before other countries online Apple Stores have even been updated with the new hardware. And you should know that Macs are sold in lot less countries than the iPhone is currently sold in. Just look at the worldwide stats that Apple releases each quarter. No physical product can go from from not being available to the 6.7B people in the world one day to being available the next. You really should revise your definition. Worldwide for business just means widespread international sales, nothing more nothing less.

The only complaint I hear on this site regarding international releases from Apple are how they overcharge everyone from outside the US.

I can place an order for a new Mac, or iPod at exactly the same time as they are annouced in the states. Yes they delay some items when they cannot produce enough stock, but they are released everywhere at once. The iPhone wasn't, this is a fact that you cannot deny.

Together with this, even your definition of worldwide being widespread international sales proves that the original iPhone was not a world release
post #86 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And you should know that Macs are sold in lot less countries than the iPhone is currently sold in.

Are you saying that Macs are available in less than 90 countries?
post #87 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Are you saying that Macs are available in less than 90 countries?

I’m saying Apple officially sells Macs in less countries than they officially sell iPhones. If you want to go unofficially, then the original iPhone was used throughout the world on GSM networks soon after it and the software unlock were released, but we know from your previous posts that you don’t count anything but official releases.
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post #88 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im saying Apple officially sells Macs in less countries than they officially sell iPhones. If you want to go unofficially, then the original iPhone was used throughout the world on GSM networks soon after it and the software unlock were released, but we know from your previous posts that you dont count anything but official releases.

Just to confirm you are saying that Apple, or offical Apple resellers sell macs in less than 90 countries?
post #89 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Just to confirm you are saying that Apple, or offical Apple resellers sell macs in less than 90 countries?

Official retailers sell Macs in many countries, I have no idea how many countries those amount to, but your statement thorughout your stupid argument is that Apple isn’t a worldwide iPhone seller unless they offer a product to every country at the same time. They look to have an inline Apple store to buy Macs in 34 countries.

You later attested that Apple sells Macs worldwide on the same day they come out in an attempt to support your argument, contradicting the fact that Apple doesn’t sell Macs in every country. I even gave you an example of a country that doesn’t sell Macs. There is likely not a single Mac even in that country.

I assure you that the new iMacs and MacBooks that were just released in the US were not available to every retailer throughout the world the same day, thus you’re contradicting your previous comment, yet again. I can assure you that when the Pro line hits early next year that the US will have stock before most other countries.

Why you think this is unusual behaviour for an American company that does more than half their PC sales in the US or why you think this means they are not a worldwide vendor because of this is beyond me.
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post #90 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Official retailers sell Macs in many countries, I have no idea how many countries those amount to, but your statement thorughout your stupid argument is that Apple isnt a worldwide iPhone seller unless they offer a product to every country at the same time. They look to have an inline Apple store to buy Macs in 34 countries.

I have never said that, you have been impling that. I said that the original iPhone release wasn't a worldwide one. You are yet to present one piece of evidence to go against that.

Also, Apple has offical resellers, they have these in a number of countries, I will ask you again, are you saying that Apple sells the Mac in less than 90 countries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You later attested that Apple sells Macs worldwide on the same day they come out in an attempt to support your argument, contradicting the fact that Apple doesnt sell Macs in every country. I even gave you an example of a country that doesnt sell Macs. There is likely not a single Mac even in that country.

I said they release Macs into all markets at the same time, ie they do a world wide release for them, I never said every country in the world, you impled that (you seem to do a lot of that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I assure you that the new iMacs and MacBooks that were just released in the US were not available to every retailer throughout the world the same day, thus youre contradicting your previous comment, yet again. I can assure you that when the Pro line hits early next year that the US will have stock before most other countries.

You seem to be changing your story all the time, I am getting lost about which one you are on about now. When Apple releases a new MacBook, I can order it off the Apple Store at the same time you can in the US. If I go to one of their resellers it may take a couple of days later, but it is still available around the same time (not six months later like the iPhone took to get to a second country). The shipping dates will be around the same time as the US as well, it has been a number of years since they have had large delays internationally for items such as this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why you think this is unusual behaviour for an American company that does more than half their PC sales in the US or why you think this means they are not a worldwide vendor because of this is beyond me.

You are having trouble reading, I will say this slowly as you still do not understand.

The original iPhone release was not world wide, it was released in the US only, and it took six months before it was released by Apple to offical resellers in another country, and another six months after that before (and it was a new version of the phone) it was released to over 10 countries.

This means it was not a world wide release. I will say it again as you are having real issues understanding this, the original iPhone release was not world wide.

I will even include your quote to make it easier for you to understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Worldwide for business just means widespread international sales, nothing more nothing less.
post #91 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I have never said that, you have been impling that...blathering

You replied to Addaboxs very rational and sane comment of, "obviously the US rollout was the first step in the global rollout with pointless chatter about how the iPhone is not sold worldwide. I contended that it is, for all reasonable intents and purposes, sold globally as its now in 90+ countries. Youve keep making pointless stances about a staggered initial release means that cant be sold worldwide, that not being sold everywhere means that its technically not a global product which you then flip your argument over to say that Apple sells all their other products the same day everywhere else in the world, which Ive pointed out as being blatantly false.
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post #92 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You replied to Addaboxs very rational and sane comment of, "obviously the US rollout was the first step in the global rollout with pointless chatter about how the iPhone is not sold worldwide. I contended that it is, for all reasonable intents and purposes, sold globally as its now in 90+ countries. Youve keep making pointless stances about a staggered initial release means that cant be sold worldwide, that not being sold everywhere means that its technically not a global product which you then flip your argument over to say that Apple sells all their other products the same day everywhere else in the world, which Ive pointed out as being blatantly false.

No, I replied to their comment of

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Hiring people with experience isn't remotely the same as real, in the field experience. Rolling out a new platform worldwide, a platform that arguably will prove to be central to Apple's fortunes in the decade to come (and in a field in which you have never competed involving entrenched players as partners), calls for patience, prudence and baby steps. And, you have to make sure each of those steps is working well before moving on to the next, because you're building the foundation of a new business that you expect to grow for years to come.

I don't care if the iPhone is sold in 88 countries now, since you like to have your figures correct you may want to double check you 90+ claim... They talked about rolling out a new platform worldwide., hence they were talking about the original iPhone, ie the phone that was only release in the US six months before being release anywhere else. This is the point you can't understand, this is the point I am making, it is a simple point which seems to be going completly over you head. The simple fact is, the original iPhone release was not worldwide, using your logic it couldn't have been considered worldwide until around mid 2008, and it wasn't the original iphone they were selling then
post #93 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

They talked about rolling out a new platform worldwide., hence they were talking about the original iPhone, ie the phone that was only release in the US six months before being release anywhere else.

The iPhone is the platform. The first model of this platform is the original iPhone. The US market was the first release of this new platform from Apple. Apple full intended to release the iPhone globally.

As Addabox has clearly pointed out and which you are ignoring is that an initial release in one country for a new product on a platform is how successful companies tend to work. You then changed your statement to say that worldwide meant the entire world, then later changed it mean countries, then later stated that all companies release their products on the same day, including Apple, despite evidence to the contrary. Are you going to change your stance again and say that each different iPhone is a new platform?
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post #94 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The iPhone is the platform. The first model of this platform is the original iPhone. The US market was the first release of this new platform from Apple. Apple full intended to release the iPhone globally.

Intention isn't the same as actually doing, it is a fact that the original iPhone was not a world wide release, and it was never released world wide. You can use any definition you want for world wide, and you still cannot say that the original iPhone was a world wide release.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As Addabox has clearly pointed out and which you are ignoring is that an initial release in one country for a new product on a platform is how successful companies tend to work. You then changed your statement to say that worldwide meant the entire world, then later changed it mean countries, then later stated that all companies release their products on the same day, including Apple, despite evidence to the contrary. Are you going to change your stance again and say that each different iPhone is a new platform?

I haven't changed anything,

1. I never said they were doing a world wide release, i said they didn't do one.
2. I never said that all companies release their products on the same day, you made that one up

I'm not sure why you have to change what I am saying, is it because you can't understand a simple concept? As I have said above, using any definition of world wide that you want, you cannot define the original iPhone release as world wide.

Now you question the difference between the original iPhone, and the 3GS, I won't say anything about that other than say one thing, are you saying the original phone with OS 1, and the 3GS with 3.1 whatever are the same device, or infact the same platform?
post #95 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Looking at the big picture do you think Apple will make a Verizon and/Sprint CDMA phone locked to each carrier and sold alongside their GSM-based phone, with or without the additional 3G band for T-Mobile?

Personally, I have not even considered the technical aspects. For me, it's just business!

iPhone is already on multiple carriers in some countries.
Apple is adding more countries (ergo more carriers) to that list.
Despite being a 'special case', I think it's safe to assume that the US will also be added... eventually.
post #96 of 101
Going CDMA-compatible seems like a step back IMO.
Verizon is abandoning that technology and going for the worldwide used UMTS in it's 4th generation (LTE).

Why give support to a dying technology?
post #97 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by heffeque View Post

Going CDMA-compatible seems like a step back IMO.
Verizon is abandoning that technology and going for the worldwide used UMTS in it's 4th generation (LTE).

Why give support to a dying technology?

Dying, yes, but Verizon will be using CDMA for the foreseeable future. Theyll use LTE for data where available but they dont expect to finish the rollout until 2013, though I think it will take longer. There is plenty of time for Apple to make a CDMA-based iPhone for Verizon the rest of the countries that they arent touching with GSM-based phone, thought mainly Verizon when it comes to unit sales.
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post #98 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by heffeque View Post

Going CDMA-compatible seems like a step back IMO.
Verizon is abandoning that technology and going for the worldwide used UMTS in it's 4th generation (LTE).

Why give support to a dying technology?

Because Apple is only making the handset --- which we all know cell phones are disposable every couple of years anyway.

Verizon spends billions of dollars on their CDMA network. Apple spends $20-30 on a CDMA chipset per iphone.
post #99 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisTheXIV View Post

The only places in Paris I didn't get a working 3G connection was in the metro where it always switched to EDGE. Can't say the same for AT&T.

There are a lot of concrete and brick buildings in Europe. Even inside you get better wireless service comparing to "paper" buildins here.
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post #100 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Intention isn't the same as actually doing, it is a fact that the original iPhone was not a world wide release, and it was never released world wide. You can use any definition you want for world wide, and you still cannot say that the original iPhone was a world wide release.




I haven't changed anything,

1. I never said they were doing a world wide release, i said they didn't do one.
2. I never said that all companies release their products on the same day, you made that one up

I'm not sure why you have to change what I am saying, is it because you can't understand a simple concept? As I have said above, using any definition of world wide that you want, you cannot define the original iPhone release as world wide.

Now you question the difference between the original iPhone, and the 3GS, I won't say anything about that other than say one thing, are you saying the original phone with OS 1, and the 3GS with 3.1 whatever are the same device, or infact the same platform?

What are you even arguing? Do you remember?

The iPhone is a product that Apple intended to sell globally. No one contests that. The first phase of that global rollout was the US. Why didn't Apple just start selling the iPhone in every country they intended to, right from the beginning? Because the US introduction gave them a chance to figure out what they were doing, in a market that they could closely monitor.

That was actually the original point, before you went into the weeds with whatever it is you think you're doing. Apple had every reason to be careful and conservative with the rollout, taking it step at a time. Even though they had hired people with experience in the industry.

If you want to argue something, argue that Apple should have introduced the iPhone everywhere at once, because their recent hires had given them ample know-how. That was actually the point of contention, not the definition of "global" or "rollout", which is insane internet discussion diversionary sideways drift at its worst.
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post #101 of 101
Don't you think?
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