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Climategate - Page 6

post #201 of 3039
11/28/09 at 10:14am
Thread Starter 
And the implosion has begun:

UN scientists turn on each other: UN Scientist Declares Climategate colleagues Mann, Jones and Rahmstorf 'should be barred from the IPCC process' -- They are 'not credible any more'

Other pro-AGW "scientists" are trying to cover their own sorry rear ends by attacking their own.

Meanwhile, pro-AGW zealots are denying there is even a problem.

How ironic that the pro-AGWers are now the deniers.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #202 of 3039
11/28/09 at 10:21am
But then again, there are those who watch the Hindenburg blow up, and simply aren't phased.

One of the BIG issues the Kuhn, and Polanyi address is that, inside a closed system -- of "normal science" -- truly ground shaking/paradigm breaking evidences are initially rejected, since they don't fit into how scientists believe the "world really works." The evidence has no way of fitting into the current understanding -- so it is literally useless. This has been repeated throughout scientific history.

You'd think that these emails would give people pause -- but then again, the guy responsible for regulating CITI, while it levered itself to 80:1 is now running the Treasury -- and the current prescription for what got us into this crisis, is now the solution.


More than a little odd.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #203 of 3039
11/28/09 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

And the implosion has begun:

UN scientists turn on each other: UN Scientist Declares Climategate colleagues Mann, Jones and Rahmstorf 'should be barred from the IPCC process' -- They are 'not credible any more'

Other pro-AGW "scientists" are trying to cover their own sorry rear ends by attacking their own.

Meanwhile, pro-AGW zealots are denying there is even a problem.

How ironic that the pro-AGWers are now the deniers.

Welcome back to your thread, jazzguru.

These emails do nothing to change the the fact that there is a mountain of evidence that anthropogenic climate change is occurring and is potentially catastrophic. They do not contain any evidence whatsoever that data was manipulated in any systematic way to present a false truth.

Let's go through them.

You choose one, and we'll discuss it.

Would uou
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post #204 of 3039
11/28/09 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

You're attempting to speculate/insinuate that someone like myself and others here would EVER condone lying for a political cause -- and then essentially admitting that you are doing that very thing.

Um... no, I'm not.
Quote:
Well, if you think lying is alright...

I don't.
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...that's your choice, but I have to ask that you don't project that in my direction.

I have to ask that you improve your reading comprehension skills.

Exactly where did I say I thought that lying is alright? Exactly where did I say that I'm excusing what these scientists apparently did? I believe what they did was wrong, just as I believe what Bush and his administration did was wrong. I believe that these scientists should be banned from further involvement in the climate study process. I agree that what they have done will damage the credibility of the entire scientific community on this issue.

I also believe man-affected climate change is real and at least partially preventable and that any prevention we can achieve will be more beneficial to mankind than any economic benefits of non-prevention.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
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post #205 of 3039
11/28/09 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Um... no, I'm not.

I don't.


I have to ask that you improve your reading comprehension skills.

Exactly where did I say I thought that lying is alright?
...



Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Come on, fess up, guys...

How many of you didn't care if Bush was lying about Iraq because you thought attacking them was "the right thing to do"? How many of you supported [all the lies of the Bush administration... [emph. added]

That sounds like overwrought reaching, and an attempt at moral equivalency.

You clearly and plainly asserted that I and others here are liars. Since this is not the case, I'm left to wonder where the source of this assertion comes from, and am left with nothing but to conclude that this is something that you are comfortable engaging in, and are projecting this motive as an attempt at moral equivalency.

There is no other explanation of how an imaginary "support of lying" has any place in a discussion of these emails -- other than a "yeah, but you guys do it too" gibe.


You need to use the term liar more carefully and should be prepared to take responsibility when you do use that term.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #206 of 3039
11/28/09 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Welcome back to your thread, jazzguru.

These emails do nothing to change the the fact that there is a mountain of evidence that anthropogenic climate change is occurring and is potentially catastrophic. They do not contain any evidence whatsoever that data was manipulated in any systematic way to present a false truth.

Let's go through them.

You choose one, and we'll discuss it.

Would uou

So...data manipulation hast to be systematic to be bad? Good luck with that one.
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post #207 of 3039
11/28/09 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

That sounds like overwrought reaching, and an attempt at moral equivalency.

Again, you're wrong. It was an attempt at pointing out the hypocrisy of some conservatives who are pouncing on this after their supporting Bush's less than honest way of starting the Iraq war. It says nothing at all about my moral beliefs.
Quote:
You clearly and plainly asserted that I and others here are liars.

Again... wrong.
I did not address you or anyone in particular in my post. Unspecified "others", yes. But how on Earth did you drag yourself into it?
Quote:
Since this is not the case, I'm left to wonder where the source of this assertion comes from, and am left with nothing but to conclude that this is something that you are comfortable engaging in, and are projecting this motive as an attempt at moral equivalency.

As I explained above, you're completely wrong on any expression of "moral equivalency" with the hypocrites I'm addressing here. I will never be "morally" equivalent to hypocrites and liars.
Quote:
There is no other explanation of how an imaginary "support of lying" has any place in a discussion of these emails -- other than a "yeah, but you guys do it too" gibe.

Again, I never showed any "support of lying" whatsoever, nor did I make any attempt at excusing what apparently happened here. Read again. There is no "yeah, but you guys do it too". There is, however, "some of you guys are funny because you're so hypocritical".
Quote:
You need to use the term liar more carefully and should be prepared to take responsibility when you do use that term.

???
Read again. The only ones I called liars are Bush and his administration.

"F" for comprehension.
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post #208 of 3039
11/28/09 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

...
Again... wrong.
I did not address you or anyone in particular in my post. Unspecified "others", yes. But how on Earth did you drag yourself into it?
...

You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

How many of you didn't care if Bush was lying about Iraq because you thought attacking them was "the right thing to do"?

tonton, you are impugning the honesty of those you are addressing -- I didn't type that, you did.

This is a thread about honesty; you impugned the honesty of those who are bringing this to your attention; what exactly would you call that?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #209 of 3039
11/28/09 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

tonton, you are impugning the honesty of those you are addressing

I am? No, I am not. I asked a plural, unspecified "you" (being a plural, it could not possibly have been you in particular) to be honest, but I didn't call you liars.

Um... I would call it pointing out hypocrisy. Which is what it did.

Now I'm pointing out a lack of comprehension skills, because you keep telling me what I said about you, and I clearly didn't say any such thing.

Initially, you somehow came to the conclusion that I condoned the scientists' apparent actions, which I clearly did not. Now you're trying to change the subject away from that assertion that you were clearly wrong about, and trying another one, that I was calling you a liar.
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post #210 of 3039
11/28/09 at 11:57am
I think this will go a lot faster if you just admit you're wrong.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #211 of 3039
11/28/09 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Aaah Taskiss, but imagine if 9 billion people jumped up and down (and really hard and all at the same time) then pending on the Australians jumping at the right time also, ie in intervals to us, the world could possibly even spin the wrong way, maybe even cause time to go backwards. Maybe that's how we'll solve the crisis. We could even burn up trees to make the planet weigh less (and vegetation- heck we could ship rocks to the moon too) so we can get it spinning faster. That's a lot to think about I know, but we need REAL solutions!

I assume this is all a facetious statement since it would likely have no impact at all from what I can see...

And the burning of the trees has what to do with anything as that which is burned is not actually destroyed but simply changes state??? And Time going backwards... We just need Superman to make a few orbits for us to get that whole ball rolling, so to speak...

To get down to it, what would you consider a REAL solution. Something that will really actively reduce the actual CO2 in the atmosphere? Not reduce the emissions, the actual count of what is there now.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #212 of 3039
11/28/09 at 3:59pm
The real scandal in all this is that the authors of these emails conspired to keep papers from being published and were strategizing on ways to delegitimize authors and journals. Rather than refute papers with letters to editors or works that prove them wrong they went the other way to suppress publication and black ball the work of others.

Suppressing publication of data that is inconvenient or contradictory is not the action of objective researchers. If they are busy scuttling data that they don't like or cant refute then they are not true scientist.
The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #213 of 3039
11/28/09 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Welcome back to your thread, jazzguru.

These emails do nothing to change the the fact that there is a mountain of evidence that anthropogenic climate change is occurring and is potentially catastrophic. They do not contain any evidence whatsoever that data was manipulated in any systematic way to present a false truth.

Let's go through them.

You choose one, and we'll discuss it.

Would uou

Keep on playing that fiddle, Nero.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #214 of 3039
11/28/09 at 4:10pm
Well, boiling this down to what I read earlier goes something like this:

One side:
Quote:
Hey -- OMG -- there are a bunch of scientist who appear to be intimidating journals, cooking their code, and hiding/destroying research findings.

The response:
Quote:
Yeah, but... but... but Bush lied!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #215 of 3039
11/28/09 at 4:21pm
Soooooooo... here's how that works ---> Apparently Bush lied when he invaded Iraq for oil and Halliburton and the Carlyle Group and Cheney and Karl Rove.

Everyone got that?


Then: ---> We all believed those lies, or wanted to believe those lies if we believed Bush lied, and even if we didn't know he lied, we would still want to believe the lies.


Got that so far?











Ergo:













We, the believing lairs or lying believers (I can't really tell) don't have a right to get to the bottom of the CRUtape letters.

Crystal, shiny, clear!!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #216 of 3039
11/28/09 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

To get down to it, what would you consider a REAL solution. Something that will really actively reduce the actual CO2 in the atmosphere? Not reduce the emissions, the actual count of what is there now.

Think back to when George W said "Wall Street got drunk" or words to that effect. Well now it's sobering up time for civilization. The first thing that needs to be done is the alcoholic needs to admit he/she has a drinking problem. That of course is difficult to convince the alcoholic to do. They often live in denial. So you talk to them about their problem, often kicking and screaming against their will, but sometimes they'll listen. Sometimes they see the negative effects on themselves and others and they decide to head down a path that helps them better understand their role in the problem. At this point they can start to make real progress by making substantial changes to their lives and planning for the future. For some there's a rude awakening; a serious accident or their loved one leaves and they become so isolated and desperate they seek help. Some however just carry on regardless and live in denial or blame someone else for their plight, which does them and no one around them any good, except for those financially benefiting from their behavior.

The worlds as it is, it's probably fair to say, is in rehab. It's recognized the problem and is seeking help from it's doctors, therapists and priests. It knows it doesn't want to loose it's home and family and sees that if it carries on regardless it could loose everything.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #217 of 3039
11/28/09 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Think back to when George W said "Wall Street got drunk" or words to that effect. Well now it's sobering up time for civilization. The first thing that needs to be done is the alcoholic needs to admit he/she has a drinking problem. That of course is difficult to convince the alcoholic to do. They often live in denial. So you talk to them about their problem, often kicking and screaming against their will, but sometimes they'll listen. Sometimes they see the negative effects on themselves and others and they decide to head down a path that helps them better understand their role in the problem. At this point they can start to make real progress by making substantial changes to their lives and planning for the future. For some there's a rude awakening; a serious accident or their loved one leaves and they become so isolated and desperate they seek help. Some however just carry on regardless and live in denial or blame someone else for their plight, which does them and no one around them any good, except for those financially benefiting from their behavior.

The worlds as it is, it's probably fair to say, is in rehab. It's recognized the problem and is seeking help from it's doctors, therapists and priests. It knows it doesn't want to loose it's home and family and sees that if it carries on regardless it could loose everything.

So you want to put the world on a 12 step program then? Where does this lead? It is nice to say there is a problem, but you have to have a plan for how to get out of the problem other than saying, see the problem? FIX IT!

So How do we reduce the actual CO2, assuming that everyone is on board and you have carte blanche...?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #218 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So you want to put the world on a 12 step program then? Where does this lead? It is nice to say there is a problem, but you have to have a plan for how to get out of the problem other than saying, see the problem? FIX IT!

So How do we reduce the actual CO2, assuming that everyone is on board and you have carte blanche...?

These will be sensitive times. The addiction beats on the door loudly and it's tempting to beacon it back in. Empty the vodka bottles and throw out the gin. It's hard, your one time crutch has been taken away from you. You're vulnerable still to your old habits and and it's a major life change to turn your back on them and seek a new life. Take it step by step, don't look too far ahead, deal with where your at as productively as you can. Don't torture yourself to death with too many "can I, can't I do this forever". Just try and make it through the next few hours, the next few days.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #219 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Think back to when George W said "Wall Street got drunk" or words to that effect. Well now it's sobering up time for civilization. ...and live in denial or blame someone else for their plight, which does them and no one around them any good, except for those financially benefiting from their behavior.

I'd argue that we do not learn from experience, as such. There clearly a spiritual dimension, something flips, and then change can occur.

Putting Geithner in charge of Treasury speaks to the heart of this -- we haven't learned a thing from this crisis -- except that getting caught is a bitch. (and we knew that before)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The worlds as it is, it's probably fair to say, is in rehab. It's recognized the problem and is seeking help from it's doctors, therapists and priests. It knows it doesn't want to loose it's home and family and sees that if it carries on regardless it could loose everything.

In rehab, but sneaking out every night -- the games the EU is playing "meeting" their quotas, and the pollution in the BRICs is a disgusting joke -- and like the lack of global heating over the past decade, no one wants to talk about it.

Wendell Berry and others talk about consumerism, factory-farmed food, etc. -- if anything is wrong, it is our externalizing our pollution along with our jobs; detached from everything: locking pigs in cages, that are too small for them to even turn around; we don't see them, because they never see the sun. We don't care where our bling comes from anymore than we care about where our food comes from any more than we care about the jobs shipped overseas that give us cheap American Pie: Unrated DVDs at WalMart.

Solve that problem and the rest would be trivial. And this is why all this talk about AGW or health care reform or financial reform is utter idiocy -- Nothing Is Going To Change, it is the lifeblood and air that keeps Western society functioning.


And the disconnectedness that rules our society is showing up everywhere, and is neither seen nor understood anywhere. Whether it's healthcare, America's debt load, obesity epidemic, prozac addiction -- family failures, education failure -- the hard choices are spiritual, and the connectedness that comes from recognizing the image of God in ourselves and our neighbors is going to continue to be the path not taken.

The rest is just mindless blather -- the only thing that is possible anymore is an increase in debt load. Changing ourselves is completely out of the question.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #220 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

These will be sensitive times. The addiction beats on the door loudly and it's tempting to beacon it back in. Empty the vodka bottles and throw out the gin. It's hard, your one time crutch has been taken away from you. You're vulnerable still to your old habits and and it's a major life change to turn your back on them and seek a new life. Take it step by step, don't look too far ahead, deal with where your at as productively as you can. Don't torture yourself to death with too many "can I, can't I do this forever". Just try and make it through the next few hours, the next few days.

How very patient and thoughtful of you.

So what does that mean in real life? What does throwing out the gin and vodka entail?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #221 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Changing ourselves is completely out of the question.


http://www.joabbess.com/2009/11/25/r...ore-your-eyes/

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #222 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

What does throwing out the gin and vodka entail?

It means finding where it is first then doing your best to get rid of it.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #223 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It means finding where it is first then doing your best to get rid of it.

Let's get out of the symbolism and back in to reality. What does this mean in your eyes?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #224 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Let's get out of the symbolism and back in to reality. What does this mean in your eyes?

It means that you have to decide what's causing GW.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #225 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

It means that you have to decide what's causing GW.

And what if it is not the people? Then what?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #226 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

And what if it is not the people? Then what?

Then prove it's not.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #227 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Then prove it's not.

There is no consensus among scientists that it is.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #228 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Then prove it's not.

So you have no plan that reduces the actual CO2 in the air.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #229 of 3039
11/28/09 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So you have no plan that reduces the actual CO2 in the air.

I do and you don't.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #230 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I do and you don't.

Enlighten me.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #231 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

There is no consensus among scientists that it is.

97.4% of climatologists agree that GW is man made.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #232 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Enlighten me.

I suggest you read up about it.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #233 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:07pm
The Interesting thing to me in this whole discussion is that it does not matter your what your actions are. If you do not agree with the thought process of those that believe that we are heading to death for everyone, even if you are doing what they think you should do, you are doing the wrong thing and do not care about anything but yourself. That argument, and thought process, makes absolutely no logical sense to me. It seems that end result are more important than outward appearances.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #234 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

I think this will go a lot faster if you just admit you're wrong.

hahaha!!!! LMFAO.

Well if my assertion were that this is no problem because Bush lied, then I would be wrong. But that wasn't my assertion.

If my assertion were that some conservatives are ridiculously hypocritical (which is exactly what my assertion is and has always been on this thread), I would be absolutely correct.

It's like you didn't even read what I in fact said, and just projected what you expected me to say.
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post #235 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I suggest you read up about it.

Oh, so you have written a book on it?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #236 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

The Interesting thing to me in this whole discussion is that it does not matter your what your actions are. If you do not agree with the thought process of those that believe that we are heading to death for everyone, even if you are doing what they think you should do, you are doing the wrong thing and do not care about anything but yourself. That argument, and thought process, makes absolutely no logical sense to me. It seems that end result are more important than outward appearances.

But you don't have any reason to dramatically cut CO2 or Methane. Why would anybody believe you would make drastic cuts?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #237 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Oh, so you have written a book on it?

In your analogy I think it would be safe to say that we're still writing the first chapter.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #238 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

97.4% of climatologists agree that GW is man made.

63.26% of all statistics are made up.
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post #239 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

But you don't have any reason to dramatically cut CO2 or Methane. Why would anybody believe you would make drastic cuts?

So people have to prove to you what they are doing before you will accept their word on it? What would you like, a list? How about an inspection by a non partisan third party? Government mandated reporting? What will it take?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #240 of 3039
11/28/09 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

63.26% of all statistics are made up.

That's when only 36.74% of the science has been looked at.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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