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Climategate - Page 7

post #241 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So people have to prove to you what they are doing before you will accept their word on it? What would you like, a list? How about an inspection by a non partisan third party? Government mandated reporting? What will it take?

Yep. More rules and regulations to abide by. I never said it would be easy.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #242 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yep. More rules and regulations to abide by. I never said it would be easy.

And what will they be looking for?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #243 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

And what will they be looking for?

Vodka and gin.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #244 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Yep. More rules and regulations to abide by. I never said it would be easy.

Some folks are big fans of "more rules and regulations to abide by"...but it's always their rules and regulations. (sigh)
post #245 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Some folks are big fans of "more rules and regulations to abide by"...but it's always their rules and regulations. (sigh)

Ain't that the truth!
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #246 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Vodka and gin.

Good, then I have nothing to fear. \ Especially since you cannot seem to tell me what you feel is needing change on my part. Or what you believe that science tells you is needing change.

Heck, I never said answering these questions would be easy...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #247 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Ain't that the truth!

And that's what you seem to be advocating (unless I'm reading things incorrectly).
post #248 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Good, then I have nothing to fear. \ Especially since you cannot seem to tell me what you feel is needing change on my part. Or what you believe that science tells you is needing change.

Heck, I never said answering these questions would be easy...

Come on...Sheesh, you know what we're talking about.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #249 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

And that's what you seem to be advocating (unless I'm reading things incorrectly).

I'm advocating that and more.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #250 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Come on...Sheesh, you know what we're talking about.

Apparently not, and it seems that you do not either with how much you are protesting answering.

How do you envision this affecting my or your everyday life. Things that I or yourself can change and have any impact over.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #251 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Apparently not, and it seems that you do not either with how much you are protesting answering.

How do you envision this affecting my or your everyday life. Things that I or yourself can change and have any impact over.

New technologies reducing CO2 et al. emissions in a vast number of products across our lives will play a major role. Other than that you probably won't notice much has changed, except you'll be aware more of your CO2 et al. emissions.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #252 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I'm advocating that and more.

Thanks for openly confessing your authoritarian and coercivist intentions. Most others aren't willing to do that.
post #253 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

New technologies reducing CO2 et al. emissions in a vast number of products across our lives will play a major role. Other than that you probably won't notice much has changed, except you'll be aware more of your CO2 et al. emissions.

So an example would be energy efficient items for my home? Things that use less electricity? Perhaps insulation of the home itself so it will not need to use as much energy to heat it? Exhaust systems on vehicles designed to reduce emissions? Maybe even forgoing the vehicle and walking to work or riding a bike? Forcing those who live and work on a transit line to use it for commuting to work? Enforcing times of lower power usage when it is deemed less power is required for the general population? How far would you like to go with this?

Should we write an iPhone app that you can put your daily routine into it and it will give you your carbon footprint? (It cannot be that far away if it does not exist already.)

And if you or I are found to be out of compliance, does that make you a criminal? How far?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #254 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

97.4% of climatologists agree that GW is man made.

Hogwash.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #255 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Hogwash.

It was an impressive sounding statistic though. 97.4% of all climatologists. Very official, and very precise. Where did the number come from? I am sure he has a link to back it up.

Like this one:
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009...logists_ag.php

Quote:
The 97% of active climatologists is 75 out of the 77 in the survey. Doran and Zimmermann say:

While respondents' names are kept private, the authors noted that the survey included participants with well-documented dissenting opinions on global warming theory.

I'm guessing that Lindzen and Spencer are the two that said "no".
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #256 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So an example would be energy efficient items for my home? Things that use less electricity? Perhaps insulation of the home itself so it will not need to use as much energy to heat it? Exhaust systems on vehicles designed to reduce emissions? Maybe even forgoing the vehicle and walking to work or riding a bike? Forcing those who live and work on a transit line to use it for commuting to work? Enforcing times of lower power usage when it is deemed less power is required for the general population? How far would you like to go with this?

Should we write an iPhone app that you can put your daily routine into it and it will give you your carbon footprint? (It cannot be that far away if it does not exist already.)

And if you or I are found to be out of compliance, does that make you a criminal? How far?

I don't think anyone's going to be forced to take public transport or forced to do much at all. I do think there will be limits set on your CO2 et al. use, that will mean you prioritize your use on one thing rather than another, but I don't see that happening for at least another ten years. Not unlike now however, those that have more will be able to afford more. If you were a millionaire say, you could afford to offset your extra useage more than a poor person. I don't see outright bans like California's 50" TV ban as being considered necessary. If you want to use your credits on a big TV say, you might decide that you don't fly that year to Hawaii. Just like tax rates increase the more you earn, the more you go over your alloted credits, the steeper the price to offset them will be.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #257 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

It was an impressive sounding statistic though. 97.4% of all climatologists. Very official, and very precise. Where did the number come from? I am sure he has a link to back it up.

Like this one:
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009...logists_ag.php

I'll reply to this tomorrow.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #258 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I don't think anyone's going to be forced to take public transport or forced to do much at all. I do think there will be limits set on your CO2 et al. use, that will mean you prioritize your use on one thing rather than another, but I don't see that happening for at least another ten years. Not unlike now however, those that have more will be able to afford more. If you were a millionaire say, you could afford to offset your extra useage more than a poor person. I don't see outright bans like California's 50" TV ban as being considered necessary. If you want to use your credits on a big TV say, you might decide that you don't fly that year to Hawaii. Just like tax rates increase the more you earn, the more you go over your alloted credits, the steeper the price to offset them will be.

So if you are rich enough, you can buy your way out of making any real changes. NICE!!! And you are good with this! Alrighty Then! And Who gets the money? And is this money put into a big CO2 reducing machine?

For the right price we reduce CO2 by a certain amount that will offset what you have decided it is worth paying to keep on doing. Unfortuantely this means we will have to consfiscate the vehicles of 50 poor people so you can continue to fly around the country talking about your new book Mr Gore...

This sounds like a really bad idea waiting to happen...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #259 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So if you are rich enough, you can buy your way out of making any real changes. NICE!!! And you are good with this! Alrighty Then! And Who gets the money? And is this money put into a big CO2 reducing machine?

For the right price we reduce CO2 by a certain amount that will offset what you have decided it is worth paying to keep on doing. Unfortuantely this means we will have to consfiscate the vehicles of 50 poor people so you can continue to fly around the country talking about your new book Mr Gore...

This sounds like a really bad idea waiting to happen...

We can get more into this later, but money talks always has and always will.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #260 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

We can get more into this later, but money talks always has and always will.

Yes, but now you are advocating for this...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #261 of 3039
Can we all just be honest here? I mean everybody.

Conservatives have to admit that man-made climate change does exist, as is clearly in abundant evidence. There are economic and ecological costs associated with this.

Likewise, Liberals have to admit that there are economic costs associated with AGW regulation.

As is the case with many instances of disagreement between Liberal and Conservative thought, such as socialism vs. capitalism, free-market vs. economic regulation, choice vs. medical regulation and immigration vs. border control, the problem here is not one of fact. Both of these facts are established. The problem here is one of extent.

How do we balance ecological protection with economic progress? Where does the threshhold lie -- where does increasing regulation reach the point where the detriment to economic progress is no longer worth the conservation effort?

We need just as many mathematicians and statisticians working on this problems as we have economists and climatologists. The ones we don't need working on this are the politicians.
post #262 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

It was an impressive sounding statistic though. 97.4% of all climatologists. Very official, and very precise. Where did the number come from? I am sure he has a link to back it up.

Like this one:
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009...logists_ag.php

Yes. The poll is the most thorough poll of earth scientists ever conducted. Those that were able to give their views were certified to be qualified in their respective fields. 3,146 earth scientist's gave their views out of which, about 150 were climatologists and 79 of them had published peer reviewed papers in the last 5 years. Out of the 3,146 earth scientists, 8.5% had published peer reviewed papers in the last 5 years that directly related to climate change and 90% of them had a PHD.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #263 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Conservatives have to admit that man-made climate change does exist, as is clearly in abundant evidence.

The only thing that is clear to me at this point in time is that this "abundant evidence" could very well have been concocted to support a political agenda.

Just like Bush and the WMDs.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #264 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The only thing that is clear to me at this point in time is that this "abundant evidence" could very well have been concocted to support a political agenda.

Just like Bush and the WMDs.

All of it?
post #265 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

All of it?

I don't know. It's difficult to tell, especially in light of the possibility that important data, research, etc. has likely been deliberately withheld, altered, or destroyed.

I want an independent investigation to be conducted of all the major climate research institutions and their methods, dealings, financial records, etc.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #266 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So if you are rich enough, you can buy your way out of making any real changes. NICE!!! And you are good with this! Alrighty Then! And Who gets the money? And is this money put into a big CO2 reducing machine?

For the right price we reduce CO2 by a certain amount that will offset what you have decided it is worth paying to keep on doing. Unfortuantely this means we will have to consfiscate the vehicles of 50 poor people so you can continue to fly around the country talking about your new book Mr Gore...

This sounds like a really bad idea waiting to happen...

Absolutely I have concerns as to how this will effect people.

Why do you assume that 50 people would be without a car due to a millionaire offsetting their CO2 et al. use. The reality would be that the extra credits due to offsetting from those that can afford to at a higher rate, would effectively subsidise the credits for low income earners. It's a bit like the rich paying more taxes, they pay more so that others can pay less. If they paid the same rate as the poor then the poor's rate would have to go up as the rich rate came down to amass the same amount of collected taxes. In other words 50 people would be driving vehicles that would not have otherwise been able to afford to.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #267 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't know. It's difficult to tell, especially in light of the possibility that important data, research, etc. has likely been deliberately withheld, altered, or destroyed.

I want an independent investigation to be conducted of all the major climate research institutions and their methods, dealings, financial records, etc.

Based on what?
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #268 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Based on what?

Please clarify.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #269 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Please clarify.

What evidence do you have of any wrong doing?
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post #270 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

What evidence do you have of any wrong doing?

What evidence do I personally have? As much as you do.

Those recently outed e-mails and documents raise some questions that must be answered. You yourself have conceded as much, but it appears you are afraid of the answers, so you deny there is even a problem. How does it feel to be labeled a "denier"?

If we are going to enact legislation that will tax people into oblivion, and significantly alter the complexion of our economy and indeed our way of life as we have known it, we deserve to know whether that legislation is based on sound science and ethical administrative and business practices.

Independent investigation is warranted. If they have nothing to hide, the "scientists" will welcome it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #271 of 3039
What you're saying, that an investigation should be launched into all climate research because of evidence of possible manipulation by a handful of researchers is akin to saying that all Jewish people should be investigated because one Jewish person held up a liquor store. It is asinine.
post #272 of 3039
I wonder if global warming raped and murdered a young girl in 1990?
post #273 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What you're saying, that an investigation should be launched into all climate research because of evidence of possible manipulation by a handful of researchers is akin to saying that all Jewish people should be investigated because one Jewish person held up a liquor store. It is asinine.

That comparison is what's asinine.

But I suppose AGW is akin to a religion for many, so in that light it makes a little sense.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #274 of 3039
Even the NYT can't ignore or defend this:

Quote:
This whole concept of, Were the experts, trust us, has clearly gone by the wayside with these e-mails, said Judith Curry, a climate scientist at Georgia Institute of Technology.

And, brilliantly, Gavin A. Schmidt uses this thing as justifcation to avoid releasing more information:

Quote:
Gavin A. Schmidt, a NASA climatologist involved in many of the e-mail exchanges, said that voluntarily disclosing more data would never satisfy the very hard-bitten, distraught core of climate skeptics. The number of attacks on our integrity will actually increase since there will be more ways to twist what it is we do to support some conspiracy theory or other, he said.


And the folks at CRU are merely concerned with prosecuting the whistle blower(s):

Quote:
Officials at the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia in Britain say the disclosed material was copied from computers there in a criminal breach. (Some e-mail exchanges involved or described this reporter and other journalists).


And the Telegraph: Climate change: this is the worst scientific scandal of our generation

Quote:
The reason why even the Guardian's George Monbiot has expressed total shock and dismay at the picture revealed by the documents is that their authors are not just any old bunch of academics. Their importance cannot be overestimated, What we are looking at here is the small group of scientists who have for years been more influential in driving the worldwide alarm over global warming than any others, not least through the role they play at the heart of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Professor Philip Jones, the CRU's director, is in charge of the two key sets of data used by the IPCC to draw up its reports. Through its link to the Hadley Centre, part of the UK Met Office, which selects most of the IPCC's key scientific contributors, his global temperature record is the most important of the four sets of temperature data on which the IPCC and governments rely not least for their predictions that the world will warm to catastrophic levels unless trillions of dollars are spent to avert it.

Dr Jones is also a key part of the closely knit group of American and British scientists responsible for promoting that picture of world temperatures conveyed by Michael Mann's "hockey stick" graph which 10 years ago turned climate history on its head by showing that, after 1,000 years of decline, global temperatures have recently shot up to their highest level in recorded history.

Quote:
Since 2003, however, when the statistical methods used to create the "hockey stick" were first exposed as fundamentally flawed by an expert Canadian statistician Steve McIntyre, an increasingly heated battle has been raging between Mann's supporters, calling themselves "the Hockey Team", and McIntyre and his own allies, as they have ever more devastatingly called into question the entire statistical basis on which the IPCC and CRU construct their case.


Quote:
There are three threads in particular in the leaked documents which have sent a shock wave through informed observers across the world. Perhaps the most obvious, as lucidly put together by Willis Eschenbach (see McIntyre's blog Climate Audit and Anthony Watt's blog Watts Up With That), is the highly disturbing series of emails which show how Dr Jones and his colleagues have for years been discussing the devious tactics whereby they could avoid releasing their data to outsiders under freedom of information laws.

They have come up with every possible excuse for concealing the background data on which their findings and temperature records were based.
post #275 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

What you're saying, that an investigation should be launched into all climate research because of evidence of possible manipulation by a handful of researchers is akin to saying that all Jewish people should be investigated because one Jewish person held up a liquor store. It is asinine.

But it is which handful that's turning out to be important. From the Telegraph:

Quote:
The reason why even the Guardian's George Monbiot has expressed total shock and dismay at the picture revealed by the documents is that their authors are not just any old bunch of academics. Their importance cannot be overestimated, What we are looking at here is the small group of scientists who have for years been more influential in driving the worldwide alarm over global warming than any others, not least through the role they play at the heart of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Professor Philip Jones, the CRU's director, is in charge of the two key sets of data used by the IPCC to draw up its reports. Through its link to the Hadley Centre, part of the UK Met Office, which selects most of the IPCC's key scientific contributors, his global temperature record is the most important of the four sets of temperature data on which the IPCC and governments rely not least for their predictions that the world will warm to catastrophic levels unless trillions of dollars are spent to avert it.

Dr Jones is also a key part of the closely knit group of American and British scientists responsible for promoting that picture of world temperatures conveyed by Michael Mann's "hockey stick" graph which 10 years ago turned climate history on its head by showing that, after 1,000 years of decline, global temperatures have recently shot up to their highest level in recorded history.
post #276 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


Independent investigation is warranted. If they have nothing to hide, the "scientists" will welcome it.


I personally would like a thorough independent investigation, simply to give an in depth understanding to those who are skeptical and to counter the slush that's being pushed by the leading skeptics. However, there no doubt would have to be some solid evidence against the scientists and therefore I highly doubt that there will be one.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #277 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I personally would like a thorough independent investigation, simply to give an in depth understanding to those who are skeptical and to counter the slush that's being pushed by the leading skeptics. However, there no doubt would have to be some solid evidence against the scientists and therefore I highly doubt that there will be one.

Why would an investigation be needed if they already had "solid evidence"?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #278 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Why would an investigation be needed if they already had "solid evidence"?

I would welcome one without solid evidence but I suspect that there would have to be some solid evidence to warrant an independent review.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #279 of 3039
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I would welcome one without solid evidence but I suspect that there would have to be some solid evidence to warrant an independent review.

What kind of "evidence" is needed for a judge to issue a search warrant on a home?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #280 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

What kind of "evidence" is needed for a judge to issue a search warrant on a home?

You tell me.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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