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Climategate - Page 73

Trumptman has something to tell you, jazzguru.
He's really angry with you.


You mean that someone else is reading this? Thought that this thread was heading to the abyss at the bottom of page 3. Only jg and I seemed to be posting, but since jg's post were much of the same, thought it best to stop posting, however as long as jg continues, I guess I will respond to jg's even though jg continues to ignore, comment on or debate what I post.
Comments jg?
Calderon on climate talks: As were squabbling, the plane is going down.
An animated journey through the Earth's climate history
Test Only Article of above interactive site.
A journey through the Earth's climate history
NASA: Hottest November on record, 2010 likely hottest year on record globally despite deepest solar minimum in a century
These records are especially impressive because were in the middle of a strong La Niña, which would normally cool off temperatures for a few months (relatively speaking), and weve been in the deepest solar minimum in nearly a century. Its just hard to stop the march of manmade global warming, other than by sharply reducing greenhouse gas emissions, that is.
Some climate scientists caution that any one year's worth of events is driven more by natural variability than by long-term warming triggered by the released of carbon dioxide from burning fossils fuel. But when 2010's extreme events are seen in that broader context, they appear to fit long-term patterns the climate models have generally projected for a climate system responding to increasing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.
A range of studies have documented an increase in extreme heat events, a decrease in extreme cold events, and an increase in rainfall and snowfall intensity globally during the past 50 years, atmospheric scientist Gerald Meehl, with the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, told the House Energy and Environment subcommittee last month.
On the basis of physical principles alone, "we could expect to see just these kinds of changes in extremes in a warming climate," he testified.
Plants flowering later on the Tibetan Plateau
In many regions, climate change has advanced the timing of spring events, such as flowering or the unfolding of leaves. But the meadows and steppes of the Tibetan Plateau are bucking that trend plants are starting to bloom later in spring, making the growing season shorter. This change could threaten the livelihood of the thousands of nomads who survive by raising cattle on the plateau.
When J.E.N. Veron speaks, we all should listen.* Veron is the former chief scientist of the Australian Institute of Marine Science.* He is principal author of 8 monographs and more than 70 scientific articles on the taxonomy, systematics, biogeography, and the fossil record of corals. His books include the three-volume Corals of the World and A Reef in Time: The Great Barrier Reef from Beginning to End (2008).* His research has taken him to all the major coral reef regions of the world during 66 expeditions.
Bangladesh Minister responds to GOP deniers: We are struggling with the impacts of climate change from desertification to more devastating floods
According to our findings, and according to the reality what we are observing, what we are encountering, we are facing that is, we are struggling with the impacts of climate change in Bangladesh. There is salinity intrusion, increased natural calamities that is a symptom of desertification in the northern part of Bangladesh, there is more frequent and more devastating floods, and erratic rainfall. All of these are negative impacts of climate change. In Bangladesh, this is very much visible, and we are encountering and facing the problem. I dont know about the United States and how In Bangladesh, this is the reality.
Articles in the Daily Mail show the same uncritical reliance on dodgy sources that caused David Roses catastrophic mistakes about Iraq.
The truthiness of Proofiness: Charles Seifes new book gets it wrong on Gore and the media laps it up
Hmm.* I thought there was a word for when you believe something that isnt true but that you want to be true:
Although Seife never says so explicitly, the books title alludes to truthiness the Word of the Year in 2005, according to the American Dialect Society, which defined it as the quality of preferring concepts or facts one wishes to be true, rather than concepts or facts known to be true.
Yes, irony can be so ironic.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Source: http://ff.org/centers/csspp/library/...s/image002.gif
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Lonnie Thompson on why climatologists are speaking out: Virtually all of us are now convinced that global warming poses a clear and present danger to civilization
Climate Change: The Evidence and Our Options

The geologic record shows no relationship between temperature and CO2:

Source: http://ff.org/centers/csspp/library/...s/image002.gif
NOAA stunner: Climate change largely irreversible for 1000 years, with permanent Dust Bowls in Southwest and around the globe
.





YOUR CLAIM IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THESE FACTS:
2010: probably the hottest year ever recorded
But the year that saw an unprecedented month-long heatwave in Russia will be followed by cooler global temperatures in 2011, say climate scientists monitoring sea temperatures in the Pacific that are thought to determine temperatures around the world.
The final ranking of 2010 will not become clear until November and December data are available in early 2011, but November global temperatures are similar to those observed in November 2005, suggesting 2010 is on track for near-record levels.
This decade also proved to be the hottest on record, with temperatures averaging 0.46C above the 1961-90 average, 0.03C above the 2000-09 mean and the highest value yet recorded for a 10-year period.
The Russian heatwave, which saw temperatures in Moscow nearly 15C above normal for a month, led to thousands of deaths as well as forest fires across a wide region. But the heatwave extended across the Middle East, and northern India, devastating harvests and leading to food shortages.
Previous temperature records tumbled in 17 countries including Russia, Ukraine, Finland, Chad, Kuwait, Burma, Sudan, Niger and Saudi Arabia. Pakistan had Asia's hottest-ever recorded day when the temperature in the abandoned city of Mohenjo-daro in Sindh province reached 53.5C.
The most extreme temperature anomalies in 2010 occurred across most of Canada and Greenland, where annual temperatures were 3C or more above normal, and across much of Africa and south Asia, where annual temperatures were 1-3C above normal.
Guinea, in west Africa, was the only country in the world to have recorded a record low temperature in 2010, but says the World Meteorological Organisation, below-normal temperatures were recorded in Siberia, parts of South America, interior Australia and the south-east United States.
Britain, Germany, France and Norway all had their coolest years since 1996 due mainly to below-normal temperatures during the winter.
This was also the year that CO2 levels in the atmosphere bounced back after a slight fall caused the previous year's recession in 2009.
Data will not be complete for several weeks, but according to monitoring stations in Hawaii and Norway, levels were on course to grow slightly on record 2008 levels.




Christina Ravelo, professor of ocean sciences at the University of California, Santa Cruz, will present the new findings in a talk on December 13 at the fall meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in San Francisco. Ravelo and co-chief scientist Kozo Takahashi of Kyushu University, Japan, led a nine-week expedition of the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program (IODP) to the Bering Sea last summer aboard the research vessel JOIDES Resolution. The researchers drilled down 700 meters through rock and sludge to retrieve sediments deposited during the Pliocene Warm Period, 3.5 to 4.5 million years ago.
"Evidence from the Pliocene Warm Period is relevant to studies of current climate change because it was the last time in our Earth's history when global temperatures were higher than today," Ravelo said.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
- segovius
- The New Number 2
- Joined: May 2003
- Location: The Village
- Posts: 9,831
- offline
- Select All Posts By This User
What the fuck is going on in there......yikes!

SOS.......thought that this thread was going to die, but jg just keeps posting.....so I feel that someone has to answer the DENIER.




To: 169 -SPECIAL REPORT; 036 -FOX.WHU; 054 -FNSunday; 030 -Root (FoxNews.Com); 050 -Senior Producers; 051 -Producers; 069 -Politics; 005 -Washington
Cc: Clemente, Michael; Stack, John; Wallace, Jay; Smith, Sean
Sent: Tue Dec 08 12:49:51 2009
Subject: Given the controversy over the veracity of climate change data
we should refrain from asserting that the planet has warmed (or cooled) in any given period without IMMEDIATELY pointing out that such theories are based upon data that critics have called into question. It is not our place as journalists to assert such notions as facts, especially as this debate intensifies.
This morning, MediaMatters released the bombshell e-mail sent by Fox News Washington managing editor Bill Sammon less than 15 minutes after Fox correspondent Wendell Goler accurately reported on-air that the United Nations World Meteorological Organization announced that 2000-2009 was on track to be the warmest [decade] on record.
Well, okay, this would be a bombshell email coming from any other news organization in the world (see Howell Raines: Why has our profession helped Fox legitimize a style of journalism that is dishonest in its intellectual process, untrustworthy in its conclusions and biased in its gestalt?) So maybe the only bombshell is that Sammon was foolish enough to put this egregious Fox News policy into an email.
Deniers claim that climate models are bad, but they're happy to rely on far less reliable economic models to argue against taking action: One of the classic arguments of climate deniers is that the multitude of climate models is bad. Yet at the very same time, they promote the conclusions of a couple of economic models that say that doing anything about climate change will bankrupt the global economy. In fact, climate models are far superior to economic models. Climate models are far more rigorously tested, far more firmly based in physical reality, and far more unanimous in their projections than the economic models that have been applied to the problem of climate change. Indeed, you can find one set of economic models that says that mitigating greenhouse gases will be relatively cheap and another set that say it will be extremely expensive. You cannot find a state-of-the-art climate model that says the climate won't change with growing greenhouse gas concentrations.......
Government action is anathema; the answer is let the free market work (oh, but we can't have markets for carbon):....
Deniers argue that comprehensive observational data on the world's changing climate are wrong, but then point to cold weather in this or that location to argue that the world cannot be warming:.....
Deniers seize on a few minor mistakes in the IPCC report to claim its overall conclusions are invalid; but then use massively flawed scientific arguments to dispute real climate science:....
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
"Warmists."

(For 'warmists' read '99.9% of scientists in the fields of paleoclimatology, metereology, climate, environment and every single discipline of natural history, the Pentagon, NASA, The British Department of the Environment and the governments of every single industrialised nation on earth'. Warmists.
)Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
That three-page .pdf is, of course, a load of dishonest bullshit.
Because they could tell the questions were bullshit, asked by bullshitters, The Science and Public Policy Institute, who are a notorious and deeply irritating pressure group who exist to spread misinformation.
"Oh, well", they said. "We'll count the people who wanted no part of it as 'no' then," and added them to the denier column anyway:
"And then we'll try and claim that 0.73% is a representative number for the scientific community", they said, and then jazzguru found a link on one of his stupid climate blogs and posted it here with no comment of any kind.
LAME.

That three-page .pdf is, of course, a load of dishonest bullshit.
Because they could tell the questions were bullshit, asked by bullshitters, The Science and Public Policy Institute, who are a notorious and deeply irritating pressure group who exist to spread misinformation.
"Oh, well", they said. "We'll count the people who wanted no part of it as 'no' then," and added them to the denier column anyway:
"And then we'll try and claim that 0.73% is a representative number for the scientific community", they said, and then jazzguru found a link on one of his stupid climate blogs and posted it here with no comment of any kind.
LAME.
Surely you're not insinuating that the material that jg post is BS?





Or could it be that disagreements over climate change are essentially political—and that science is just carried along for the ride? For 20 years, evidence about global warming has been directly and explicitly linked to a set of policy responses demanding international governance regimes, large-scale social engineering, and the redistribution of wealth. These are the sort of things that most Democrats welcome, and most Republicans hate. No wonder the Republicans are suspicious of the science.
Think about it: The results of climate science, delivered by scientists who are overwhelmingly Democratic, are used over a period of decades to advance a political agenda that happens to align precisely with the ideological preferences of Democrats. Coincidence—or causation? Now this would be a good case for Mythbusters.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Slate Mag: Most scientists in this country are Democrats. That's a problem.
Oh look. Heavens above. I have just filleted jazzguru's last post and he has completely ignored it.
Instead he has replied with another post!
And this post is a link, with no comment!
Only in this one suggests that the only climate scientists in the world are American members of the Democratic Party!
Good lord, it's almost as if he's simply posting links with an explicit political agenda and refusing to discuss them, almost as it it's his blog.

Slate Mag: Most scientists in this country are Democrats. That's a problem.
BULLSH!T.....








Running out of sources are you?
Researchers from Polar Bears International said sea ice in the Arctic, which polar bears use as a platform on which to hunt seals and breed, is unlikely to undergo a rapid and irreversible decline when temperatures rise beyond a certain threshold.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
I must say these PO threads do flow much better with certain members on my ignore list.
</tangent>
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Clueless bloggers attack Fox News for memo that says show both sides of the global warming/cooling story
Disinformers defend Foxgate email saying unequivocal warming of the climate should always be disputed
Discredited WattsUpWithThat blogger makes up more stuff, while scientists and media critics slam Fox News
Yesterday, he wrote (falsely) that it was a stolen email and illegally obtained on the basis of no facts whatsoever. In fact, as MediaMatters explained to CP, It was provided to us by a recipient. I think that was pretty obvious from the story and from the email itself, which was clearly sent to a great many people in FoxNews. It would be hard to imagine that no one on the distribution list thought the email was journalistically inappropriate.
So why would Watts make up such a libelous claim, one that is so transparently false and easily checked (notwithstanding the fact that it is his modus operandi)?
He was trying to make a bizarre and torturous equivalence between the massive hack of Climategate emails and Foxgate in order to try to smear Al Gore (and me). #FAIL
Lets move on to the more interesting, but still erroneous, critique from disinformers like Watts. They claim that Fox News is only following standard journalistic practices. First off, anyone who actually believes that FoxNews is following journalistic practices should read Howell Raines: Why has our profession helped Fox legitimize a style of journalism that is dishonest in its intellectual process, untrustworthy in its conclusions and biased in its gestalt?. Raines, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and former NY Times executive editor, explains
For the first time since the yellow journalism of a century ago, the United States has a major news organization devoted to the promotion of one political party. In a bygone era of fact-based commentary typified, left to right, by my late colleagues Scotty Reston and Bill Safire, these deceptions would have been given their proper label: disinformation.
[Ailes] and his video ferrets have intimidated center-right and center-left journalists into suppressing conclusions whether on health-care reform or other issues they once would have stated as demonstrably proven by their reporting.
As for Fox News, lots of people who know better are keeping quiet about what to call it. Its news operation can, in fact, be called many things, but reporters of my generation, with memories and keyboards, dare not call it journalism.
The Foxgate email sent to Media Matters did little more then confirm what everybody already knew about FoxNews.
But what of the claim that FoxNews in this particular case was just trying to bring fair and balanced coverage to the climate story? Recall that, as MediaMatters explained, the Foxgate e-mail was sent by Fox News Washington managing editor Bill Sammon less than 15 minutes after Fox correspondent Wendell Goler accurately reported on-air that the United Nations World Meteorological Organization announced that 2000-2009 was on track to be the warmest [decade] on record.
Sammon wrote we should refrain from asserting that the planet has warmed (or cooled) in any given period without IMMEDIATELY pointing out that such theories are based upon data that critics have called into question. It is not our place as journalists to assert such notions as facts, especially as this debate intensifies.
As Dan Kennedy, an assistant professor of journalism at Northeastern University in Boston, told TechNewsWorld:
His memo on climate change, by contrast, underscores what Fox has become: not a news organization, not even an honest opinion outlet, but a source of political propaganda. The real obligation of journalists is to help their audience understand that the scientific community is almost unanimous that the climate is changing, that human activity is a major cause and that voluminous amounts of data support that view.
For the record, the 2007 Fourth Assessment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concluded its review of scientific literature and relevant observations:
Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice, and rising global average sea level........








Clueless bloggers attack Fox News for memo that says show both sides of the global warming/cooling story
Warning: Greater exposure to Fox News will lead to increased misinformation on policy issues, especially climate science

This is not terribly surprising given that, as we learned this week, as of last December, Fox News managing editor Bill Sammon has required reporters and producers that report on even the most unequivocal scientific facts about global warming to dispute those facts IMMEDIATELY.
Erroneous views turn out to be commonplace among regular Fox News viewers, as ThinkProgress explains:
Last week, World Public Opinion (WPO) released a poll exploring political information in a post-Citizens United national election and found that 90 percent of voters said that in the 2010 election they encountered information they believed was misleading or false, with 56% saying this occurred frequently.








In June, the US Senate defeated a resolution aimed at limiting the ability of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to regulate greenhouse gas emissions under the Clean Air Act. The US Supreme Court affirmed the EPA's ability to regulate carbon emissions under the Clear Air Act in its 2007 ruling in Massachusetts v. Environmental Protection Agency. In its ruling, the court held that if the EPA could show a link between greenhouse gas emissions and public health and welfare, then the act gives it the power to regulate emissions. The EPA announced last December that it had found that greenhouse gases "threaten the public health and welfare of current and future generations," and that emissions from motor vehicles contribute to greenhouse gas pollution. The EPA first announced its proposed finding in April before undertaking a 60-day public comment period. Some have suggested that the EPA findings have allowed Congress to avoid the political fallout that could come from passing tough climate legislation. AB 32 was first signed into law by California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2006.
At least California is doing something about AGW.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
2 + 2 = 4* is correct
2 + 2 = 5 is wrong
2 + 2 =* § did not understand the question
(2 + 2)/ zebra * Fugue = global cooling is not even wrong
SOME SEASONAL HUMOR









GateHouse News Service
Posted Dec 17, 2010 @ 09:32 AM
Well then, I would say that pretty much confirms it.
For quite some time, I’ve harbored the suspicion that both the popular science and the political activity that create and sustain the belief in Global Warmingism are informed by a retrogressively pagan mindset.
It’s not just that the quasi-religious, pseudo-scientific “Gaia hypothesis” — the belief, taking its name from the pagan Greek goddess of the Earth, that the sum of the parts of the Earth’s ecosystems together make up a living thing — is popular in certain environmentalist circles.
No, the basis for my suspicion is, in large part, the irrational and superstitious way Global Warmingism proponents and adherents react to any kind of extreme weather as evidence that modern economic and scientific activity is making global temperatures unnaturally rise.
If it’s a drought, or a long spell of hot and dry weather, they think we must be doing something to nudge up the Earth’s thermostat. If it’s a nasty hurricane or a notably destructive line of tornados, it’s our fault for driving SUVs. If riverside communities get flooded, that’s also the result of global warming. And if we get an unusually harsh and lengthy winter, yes, that, too, is proof that the Earth is getting warmer.
The Global Warmingists have covered all their bases. No matter what the weather is like, it always turns out to be exactly the kind of weather we should expect if human activity were causing global temperatures to rise.
The natural sciences have terms for that kind of hypothesis. “Unfalsifiable” is one of them. “Unscientific” is another. An idea may be true, but if it is incapable of being “falsified” or proven wrong, then whatever else that idea is, it certainly isn’t science.
Another thing that feeds my suspicion that a pagan mindset informs Global Warmingism are the steady and consistent calls for sacrifice — even human sacrifice — to ward off the threatened catastrophes.
I’m not opposed to moderation and frugality, and we certainly should put aside our avaricious and materialistic ways. Sacrifice, too, is virtuous and meritorious, as long as it is voluntary and sincere.
But the Global Warmingists seem more intent on making others sacrifice than in making big, painful changes in their own lives (yes, Al Gore, I’m talking to you).
More to the point, I can’t help but suspect that these calls for sacrifice are, like the Gaia hypothesis, quasi-religious in nature, and at times plainly religious.
Like the pagans of old thought they could appease the angry gods or win their favor through sacrificing the things most dear to them — their livestock, and if that didn’t work, human beings, even their own children — so it appears that Global Warmingism demands that we sacrifice. And it’s not really sacrifice because it’s moral or sensible or good for us, but sacrifice to appease the offended ecosphere.
It’s the old, old thought process of: “Bad things are happening and we don’t know why. How can we stop these things? How do we control what we don’t understand? We must be to blame. We must do something, anything, to make amends.”
It doesn’t matter that our efforts don’t have any demonstrable connection to the problem, or that they don’t do a thing to improve our situation but instead cause even more harm. All that matters is that we do something, and the bigger and more painful it is the better.
And so it was that the United Nations, having figured out that it’s bad for propaganda to engage in handwringing over global warming during a Scandinavian behemoth of a blizzard (like they did last time), gathered this winter month in balmy Cancun, Mexico — and once again failed to reach a binding international agreement on which of us should sacrifice and how much.
They failed despite opening their meeting with (I kid you not) religious rites invoking the supernatural assistance of an ancient Mayan jaguar goddess.
Yes, I would say that pretty much confirms it.
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.
(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)
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