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Apple seeks permanent injunction to prevent Psystar sales - Page 3

post #81 of 96
11/25/09 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I wasn't talking anti-copy like a dongle (which Quark X-Press had when it first came out and was very effective at preventing casual copying by employees), I was talking performance hobbling.

Say Microsoft tied so much of Windows operations to their proprietary Direct X video cards, it wouldn't run very well or at all on OpenGL video cards. Mac's wouldn't be able to run Windows without licensing Direct X from Microsoft right?

See where I'm going?

This doesn't work on many levels.

First of all, there is a huge installed base of Macintoshes out there. If you tie snow leopard (or 10.7, etc.) too tightly to some new "proprietary hardware" then you lose support for all of these systems. This is _very bad_ in so many ways that Apple would have to release something (software) that would make old systems work, and that software would enable Hackintoshers to use it.

In fact, this is already happening. Apple is moving towards OpenCL acceleration for the entire OS, and its line of software. This is bad for old systems, so they are putting a huge amount of effort into the LLVM compiler infrastructure which can do link-time optimization of OpenCL code for platforms which don't support OpenCL natively. This in no way impacts the viability of a Hackintosh.

The second problem is that almost all "performance critical" stuff is done inside the processor, which Apple can't really mess with. Anything external to the processor can be emulated without impacting most of the code that's out there. And anything they chose to do means that they lose the huge benefit of using mass-marketed parts.

They could have gone with something much more aggressive than the SMC when they switched to x86 (trusted computing hardware keys and such), but they didn't, and it's not clear that it would have been a good long-term decision in any case.
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post #82 of 96
11/25/09 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Finally, Pystar is going down. Glad to know that a company that steals ideas from others (OSX86) and sells it is getting its just deserts.

I like the line of damage done to Apple's brand, and goodwill. The increase in Apple's sales and profits sicne Pystar has been around clearly show the hurt Apple has been under by this company. I think the words are false, but the fact remains that Pystar should be responsible for their actions.

I can't understand the fanboy mentality on display here. "Finally! Those bastards are getting what they deserve for hurting Apple! Yeah...screw 'em!" Can someone explain that?

Secondly, while Apple may have a legal case for having their brand damaged and their bottom line impacted, there is no case for this in actuality. Apple hasn't lost money from Psystar's actions..or at least no significant sum. What Apple is worried about is 100 Psystars doing the same thing. If they can do it, so can Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. That is why Apple filed suit. Once this thing is finally decided, Apple won't even think of Psystar.

Overall, I'd say there is a good chance they get this injunction. The funny part is that I think Psystar could have potentially won the right to sell "open" machines had they not included Mac OSX and not infringed on trademarks. They could have sold an Open Computer with an included disc to allow other operating systems to run, including Mac OS X. Given the recent judicial decision, that likely would have been canned as well. But at least they wouldn't be selling Mac OS X directly. It's even possible they might have been able to fly under Apple's radar. Psystar's laypersons' argument makes sense to most people: Apple shouldn't tell you what machine to install their software on, just as GM cannot tell you what roads to drive on. Of course, in reality they were going much further. They took that GM Car and put special tires on it to allow it to drive on other roads, then resold it under their own name.
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post #83 of 96
11/25/09 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

The mac pro is made of server parts mostly to keep margins of profit high.

Apple should release a 2nd model made with non server parts, support more graphic cards and you would see many 3rd party hardware quickly follow but for now, these companies focus on the PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

Although this would seem to give Apple the lead in the NLE wars, one must understand that the Final Cut world is heavily skewed with a wide range of amateur users students, hobbyists and non-editing video professionals who occasionally do some of their own hands on cutting. I think that its fair to say that a greater percentage of Avid users are professional editors. Its my observation that broadcast news and traditional (major studio) film and television show post is dominated by Avid NLEs.

Its interesting. In the first post it reads as if you stating that Apple could have a larger market with professional editing tools if they created a cheaper machine that could reach a larger audience, yet in the next posting you cite that Final Cut Pros number are heavily skewed because the excessive number of amateurs, students and hobbyists and other non-professionals using this software. Sounds like your 2nd post negates your argument from the first post.
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post #84 of 96
11/25/09 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It’s interesting. In the first post it reads as if you stating that Apple could have a larger market with professional editing tools if they created a cheaper machine that could reach a larger audience, yet in the next posting you cite that Final Cut Pro’s number are “heavily skewed” because the excessive number of amateurs, students and hobbyists and other non-professionals using this software. Sounds like your 2nd post negates your argument from the first post.

It really says something when you can do a lot of what a $10,000+ Avid station does on a $2000 MBP.
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post #85 of 96
11/26/09 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I suppose we can ask that question about any company that doesnt make a product to fit a particular need or makes a product that does fit the low end of the market.
.

I think your missing the point here. I was taking directly about Prosumers which apple makes no product for. You talk about laptop sales but they are MacBooks, not mbp machines!!!

Do you think Avid/ Protools now also Maudio makes chump change? Think again. Most of the money made by musicians are prosumers, yet Aple won't driver a machine that will do it all unless you spend a fortune for a mac pro.

Gamers, as it's been documented numerous times, outsell video and music sales but appe sees any machine capable of great OpenGL a machine that will run pro applications so they don't allow it. The iMac quad is the coder thing but it's still beyond the reach of Many artists and when it come to potable, you simply mist offer the expresscslot someday we will see these machines. Probably after jobs steps down and they start focusing on creatives instead of iPhone users.
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post #86 of 96
11/26/09 at 12:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its interesting. In the first post it reads as if you stating that Apple could have a larger market with professional editing tools if they created a cheaper machine that could reach a larger audience, yet in the next posting you cite that Final Cut Pros number are heavily skewed because the excessive number of amateurs, students and hobbyists and other non-professionals using this software. Sounds like your 2nd post negates your argument from the first post.

Ummm ok. The second paragraph is a quote from someone that had a link in this thread on how FCP were making huge inroads to Avid, which they are somewhat but not nearly as much as thus person thinks. Todd ao is all Avid and the do a lot if editing for FF.
Go back and read the link. I was posting a quote from a link. Which now seems very funny as it shows that even readers get confused as to what a ProSumer is vs a consumer.

Peace.
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post #87 of 96
11/26/09 at 3:54am
Hi..
Nice post... You provided a good outlook of the case.
Thanks
Goerge
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otc stocks
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post #88 of 96
11/26/09 at 5:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I can't understand the fanboy mentality on display here. "Finally! Those bastards are getting what they deserve for hurting Apple! Yeah...screw 'em!" Can someone explain that?

Let's see.

Psystar when they first announced this back in April 2008 was the company no one could find as their address kept changing (10645 SW 112th St., Miami, 10481 NW 28th St., Miami, 10471 NW 28th St., Miami, and 10475, NW 28th St., Doral were the first four--i think there were six all told)

Then their original credit card merchant dropped them because Psystar hid what they were doing but Psystar kept collecting credit card numbers and had it website try and install an exe file that did heaven knows what. Worse no record of them being a registered business could be found. And this was happened just by April 17, 2008.

It was clear from the start that Psystar was run by totally morally bankrupt people, totally idiotic people, or perhaps both. Having Psystar sale Mac clones was akin to having pothead saying medical marijuana is a good idea--no matter what merits the argument had on it own the messenger delivering it caused it to be tainted.

When Psystar went to trail you saw a mixture of idiocy and outright contempt for the law in general: tax law, copyright law, trademark law, commerce law, and the list seemingly went on. All Psystar has done is set a legal precedent that allows Apple to pound on the OSx86 community with the hammer of Thor
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post #89 of 96
11/26/09 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I can't understand the fanboy mentality on display here. "Finally! Those bastards are getting what they deserve for hurting Apple! Yeah...screw 'em!" Can someone explain that?

Would have hurt the consumer quite a bit as well.

And if you REALLY don't understand why Psystar's existence was a problem, I'm sure there's a nice table waiting for you right here:

www.winsupersite.com
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post #90 of 96
11/26/09 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

Ummm ok. The second paragraph is a quote from someone that had a link in this thread on how FCP were making huge inroads to Avid, which they are somewhat but not nearly as much as thus person thinks. Todd ao is all Avid and the do a lot if editing for FF.
Go back and read the link. I was posting a quote from a link. Which now seems very funny as it shows that even readers get confused as to what a ProSumer is vs a consumer.

Peace.

Im aware of where its from hence my use of the word cite. That doesnt mean you are not using it to support an argument which sounds contradictory to your previous argument. Perhaps I did misread it.

Just to be clear, your initial point is that Apple is missing a large part of the potential market segment with their line up. Note that just over 50% of all Mac sales are in the US, still. This make the NPD chart below interesting since it appears that Apples line up is not only selling well at their much higher average per unit price point but that it make up about 50% of all the sales in the US. That doesnt sound like a company that is looking for some prosumer audio or video niche market that its being addressed, which doesnt look to be the case from what I can see.

[

(click image for hyperlink)

Note these figures dont contain the new iMac and MacBook sales fighting against the much lowered holiday sales of the cheaper PC companies. This could put Apple at over 50 cents on the dollar for the entire US PC market. That is impressive no matter you slice it.
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post #91 of 96
11/26/09 at 8:08am
Who really cares what market Apple is "missing"??

Apple and Steve and Cook et al made the point very clearly, conference call after confierence call, that there will be markets they aren't and won't ever be interested in. Some markets they simply "watch" and make their detrmination after a period of time, etc. Apple doesn't spread itself everywhere, and is concerned only with certain market segments. They don't make a run for the bottom like the generic box makers, and it's all to their credit.

Why are people around here getting all cooked over his? If Apple doesn't make something you want, buy something else. Or is OS X so great and has such a hold on you that you *must* have it at any cost on any hardware? That's quite a compliment to Apple, but they they're still not bound to offer anything.

There is no sense complaining about something that doesn't exist.
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post #92 of 96
11/26/09 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I can't understand the fanboy mentality on display here. "Finally! Those bastards are getting what they deserve for hurting Apple! Yeah...screw 'em!" Can someone explain that?

Their whole business is against the free market. Im sincerely asking you to tell me how Psystars business model is any good for consumers or even for Psystar? If you think it through you see that Psystar would have lost anyway, even if they would have won, and Mac users would have suffered greatly for it. Besides being the only option its better for the consumer if Apple wins.
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post #93 of 96
11/26/09 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

Ummm ok. The second paragraph is a quote from someone that had a link in this thread on how FCP were making huge inroads to Avid, which they are somewhat but not nearly as much as thus person thinks. Todd ao is all Avid and the do a lot if editing for FF.
Go back and read the link. I was posting a quote from a link. Which now seems very funny as it shows that even readers get confused as to what a ProSumer is vs a consumer.

Peace.

Avid and FCP are neck and neck. And FCP has outsold Avid. FCP is both a Pro and Prosumer tool. The fact that you don't need a $10,000+ setup to do high-end editing makes it Prosumer. And Hollywood is ceratinly not all Avid. Avid has been around for a very long time and was already quite entrenched when Final Cut arrived. But times are changing and Apple once again has put power and the ability to create great things into the hands of everyday users.
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post #94 of 96
11/26/09 at 9:11am
In related news . . .

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.ph...s_with_apples/

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post #95 of 96
11/27/09 at 8:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im aware of where its from hence my use of the word cite. That doesnt mean you are not using it to support an argument which sounds contradictory to your previous argument. Perhaps I did misread it.

Just to be clear, your initial point is that Apple is missing a large part of the potential market segment with their line up. Note that just over 50% of all Mac sales are in the US, still. This make the NPD chart below interesting since it appears that Apples line up is not only selling well at their much higher average per unit price point but that it make up about 50% of all the sales in the US. That doesnt sound like a company that is looking for some prosumer audio or video niche market that its being addressed, which doesnt look to be the case from what I can see.

[

(click image for hyperlink)

Note these figures dont contain the new iMac and MacBook sales fighting against the much lowered holiday sales of the cheaper PC companies. This could put Apple at over 50 cents on the dollar for the entire US PC market. That is impressive no matter you slice it.

The thing you are missing is those averages include netbook computers--a market with such razor thing margins of profit that some PC manufacturers don't want anything to do with it. Another issues is that also includes build it to order machines that may not be as efficient as pre build computers.
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post #96 of 96
11/27/09 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

In related news . . .

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.ph...s_with_apples/

While is it is funny in some ways this article just shows what kind of people are running Psystar. Of the 70,000 units Psystar hoped to sale in 2009 perhaps only 768 (definitely less than 1,000 units) were actually sold.

Their aggressive growth model should be called the fantasy growth model. To go from 1.87 million units to 12 million units in one year in the highly competitive PC market is totally insanity.
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