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Apple sues one 'knock-off' maker, defends against another

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Apple has sued a third-party MacBook power adapter manufacturer and alleged it has violated patented designs, and also, in a separate trial, appealed to move its ongoing defense against clone iPod maker Luxpro to a California court.

The suit against Media Solutions Holdings, filed Monday in a federal district court in California, also names as defendants eRepalcements and Laptops For Less. It states that both Media Solutions and eRepalcements use the brand Laptops For Less to offer goods and services, through which they provide a power adapter for Apple's MacBook that is claimed to infringe on Apple's patents.

"Through various websites and otherwise, the Defendants market these knock-off power adapters for use with Apple portable computers, such as the MacBook. The Defendants' infringing conduct has damaged Apple and inflicted irreparable harm."

U.S. Patent No. D478,310, entitled "Power Adapter," was issued on Aug. 12, 2003. It covers an ornamental design for a power adapter. The suit includes photos of the 45-watt power adapter from Media Solutions, and compares them to the design shown in Apple's patent. The adapter in question, the suit says, "is substantially the same as Apple's patented design."

Another image shows the official Apple power adapter and the third-party product side-by-side. Both look identical, with the exception being the third-party product does not include the Apple logo.



Apple has requested that the court award damages to Apple in compensation for the alleged patent infringement, and place an injunction against the defendants to prevent them from continuing the sale of such products. It requests a trial by jury.

In the last week, Apple also made a new filing in its ongoing dispute with knock-off iPod and accessory maker Luxpro. The company defended itself successfully against Apple years ago, and returned fire by seeking $100 million in damages from Apple over a product similar to an iPod shuffle.

The most recent filing requests that the court vacate a Sept. 28, 2009, decision that denied Apple's motion to transfer the case from Arkansas to California. Apple believes the move is fair because the defendant does not reside in the western district of Arkansas and has no connections to it.

"The northern district of California has a substantial connection to the dispute and is more convenient for both parties and for a substantial number of nonparty witnesses," the request reads. "The denial of Apple's transfer motion was a clear abuse of discretion."

The Luxpro suit was filed in Texarkana, Ark., in October of 2008. It accuses Apple of trying to unlawfully interfere with Luxpro's business and attempting to hold a monopoly over the world media player market.
post #2 of 57
"The Luxpro suit was filed in Texarkana, Ark., in October of 2008."

Wow! A patent suit NOT filed in Tyler, Texas!

The whole patent system is antiquated, burdensome, and needs to change.
post #3 of 57
I wonder how much cheaper our products would be if the cost of copyright, trademark and patent, and class action lawsuit costs were not factored into the cost of the products.
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post #4 of 57
>> I wonder how much cheaper our products would be if the cost of copyright, trademark and patent, and class action lawsuit costs were not factored into the cost of the products.

well... just look at the price of comparable products sold in China, where they don't have copyrights, trademarks, patents or class action lawsuits.
post #5 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wonder how much cheaper our products would be if the cost of copyright, trademark and patent, and class action lawsuit costs were not factored into the cost of the products.

China would be the model of what you're talking about. Counterfeiting is technically illegal, but a very common and accepted practice.
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post #6 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulldecent View Post

well... just look at the price of comparable products sold in China, where they don't have copyrights, trademarks, patents or class action lawsuits.

I dont think Ive ever sen a comparable product sold in China. Ive seen knock offs, but nothing that is comparable in component and build quality.
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post #7 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I dont think Ive ever sen a comparable product sold in China. Ive seen knock offs, but nothing that is comparable in component and build quality.

I would tend to agree.

Just returned after a week and a half in Beijing.

Lots of 1 TB USB keys that don't work.

Same for iPhones. Real bad. They don't work either.
post #8 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wonder how much cheaper our products would be if the cost of copyright, trademark and patent, and class action lawsuit costs were not factored into the cost of the products.

Well Apple's wouldn't be.
Ever hear of insurance?
post #9 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Well Apple's wouldn't be.
Ever hear of insurance?

I think IP insurance on Apple products would probably be twice as expensive as the operating costs of their entire legal department.

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post #10 of 57
Apple is being sued for trying to hold a monopoly on the world's media player market... because it's trying to knock off one small company... and there are other, larger companies that aren't being sued by Apple.
post #11 of 57
Ahh, finally some real hardware cloners for Apple to fight over, not the OS stealing kind like Pystar.

Apple is like any of these high fashion makers like Gucci etc., they are always fighting the cloners and copycats.

Perhaps why PC makers make such crap, nobody wants to copy crap.
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post #12 of 57
Nice high definition pictures of the adapters..
post #13 of 57
This is ridiculous and frivolous! Those grainy black and white photos don't look anything like the patents. Apples and Oranges. One is a drawing. The other is a photo.

I can't believe this! Just another money grabbing lawsuit filed to milk Apple of it's prof.

Wait. You mean Apple is suing?

hmmm. Oh I guess those do look pretty darn similar.

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post #14 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post

Apple is being sued for trying to hold a monopoly on the world's media player market... because it's trying to knock off one small company... and there are other, larger companies that aren't being sued by Apple.

The "other larger" companies were not making a media player that looks exactly like the iPod shuffle. Luxpro's defense was to use the method of distraction - fighting back by claiming a monopoly situation (which does not exist).

Apple has a huge portion of the market, sure, but nowhere near 95%, and there are no situations [to our knowledge] where partners & dealers are being illegally influenced to bundle iPods.
post #15 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Ahh, finally some real hardware cloners for Apple to fight over, not the OS stealing kind like Pystar.

Apple is like any of these high fashion makers like Gucci etc., they are always fighting the cloners and copycats.

Perhaps why PC makers make such crap, nobody wants to copy crap.

Such crap and that's why Bloomingdales the fashion retail trend leader in NYC is featuring them in their 2009 Holiday catalogue this year.

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/search...*&Keyword=acer
post #16 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Such crap and that's why Bloomingdales the fashion retail trend leader in NYC is featuring them in their 2009 Holiday catalogue this year.

http://www1.bloomingdales.com/search...*&Keyword=acer

You gotta be having a laugh?
post #17 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Apple is like any of these high fashion makers like Gucci etc., they are always fighting the cloners and copycats.

Well, not really. If some cheap, knock-off power supply destroys the motherboard of an Apple laptop, it's likely that the consumer will take the unit in for repair, lie about the use of the non-Apple power supply, and Apple will end up eating the cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Such crap and that's why Bloomingdales the fashion retail trend leader in NYC is featuring them in their 2009 Holiday catalogue this year.

You don't seem to understand the difference between "fashion" and engineering. Bloomingdale's is not know for its tech savvy or vast engineering talent pool. What's next? Choosing your fall fashions based on recommendations in Information Week and the Embedded Systems Journal?
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post

Apple is being sued for trying to hold a monopoly on the world's media player market... because it's trying to knock off one small company... and there are other, larger companies that aren't being sued by Apple.

These (semi) sentences make sense not! What the heck are you trying to say?
post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

China would be the model of what you're talking about. Counterfeiting is technically illegal, but a very common and accepted practice.

Which is why we have patent and copyright laws in the first place. Why would any company, let alone Apple, spend money on R&D knowing full well the fruits of their labor would be immediately copied by knock-off artists. China manufactures products developed by companies outside of China. China invents, innovates, designs, precisely NOTHING.

As for counterfeiting being a common and accepted practice? I'd like to see you try to use that argument with the Treasury agents when they come to get you for passing that counterfeit $50 bill at Costco. Same thing, by your definition, is it not?
post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

As for counterfeiting being a common and accepted practice? I'd like to see you try to use that argument with the Treasury agents when they come to get you for passing that counterfeit $50 bill at Costco. Same thing, by your definition, is it not?

I was only reporting, not arguing in favor.
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post #21 of 57
Well, heck. Someone do a search and pull up all the cases Apple has going on right now, as both claimant and defendant. May as well thrash all the crap out here since there's nohing else to discuss. Sheesh!

For those who celebrate - have a happy and satiating Thanksgiving. And may Black Friday empty you wallets and purses fulsomely.
post #22 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

And may Black Friday empty you wallets and purses fulsomely.

Or emptysomely?
post #23 of 57
Ikrupp's quote "China invents, innovates, designs, precisely NOTHING."

I enjoy your racist uniformed comments, your lack of knowledge is only surpassed by your utter ignorance.

China has invented quite a few things and lead the way in a few others.
1. tea
2. Silk
3. Porcelain
4. Gunpowder
5. Printing press
6. Water wheel
etc....
More currently
hybrid rice (feeds over a quarter of the earth) a little bit bigger deal than apple iPod etc..
Lead the way with solar panels, wind turbines & renewable energies in general.

Oh I almost forgot, China owns most of the US money and has taken most of the jobs & now the American president bows to the Chinese vice president.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2393498/posts

No, I am not Chinese, but your comment is still very insulting & stupid.
post #24 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Perhaps why PC makers make such crap, nobody wants to copy crap.

That actually makes sense.

That also must be why almost no-one else is making glass edge-to-edge 27" screens, desktops with overheating notebook parts and "superdrives"...
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by drumrobot View Post

Apple is being sued for trying to hold a monopoly on the world's media player market... because it's trying to knock off one small company... and there are other, larger companies that aren't being sued by Apple.

All they had to do is make a reasonably original design. They tried to get attention by taking obvious design elements and making their own product out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

The "other larger" companies were not making a media player that looks exactly like the iPod shuffle. Luxpro's defense was to use the method of distraction - fighting back by claiming a monopoly situation (which does not exist).

Sadly, we've had people post here trying to say that it's not a clone, just because it added a switch on the back. People can really stretch an argument if they want to. Copying nearly a dozen design elements (combinations of dimensions, radii, proportions, etc) makes it a stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

Ikrupp's quote "China invents, innovates, designs, precisely NOTHING."

I enjoy your racist uniformed comments, your lack of knowledge is only surpassed by your utter ignorance.

China has invented quite a few things and lead the way in a few others.
1. tea
2. Silk
3. Porcelain
4. Gunpowder
5. Printing press
6. Water wheel
etc....
More currently
hybrid rice (feeds over a quarter of the earth) a little bit bigger deal than apple iPod etc..
Lead the way with solar panels, wind turbines & renewable energies in general.

I think the mechanical clock qualifies too, I'm not sure, depends on whether the Greek Antikythera mechanism had an escapement mechanism or not, if not, China might have had the first one. But I think what was meant was that in the last few decades, it's hard to put a finger on a technological innovation that was invented in China.

I hadn't heard of the rice. That I know, Henry Beachell gets the nod for developing the most productive rice: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southea.../HI27Ae01.html

Quote:
Oh I almost forgot, China owns most of the US money and has taken most of the jobs & now the American president bows to the Chinese vice president.

The largest share at roughly $1T, but not most, maybe the largest share, that is still "only" 10% of the US government debt.

I think people probably read too much into the bowing, most of those that complain have their own agenda. I guess a sign of respect throws people off vs. the rhetorical and symbolic sparring of the past.
post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

I enjoy your racist uniformed comments, your lack of knowledge is only surpassed by your utter ignorance.

China is a country. Chinese is a nationality -- not a race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

China has invented quite a few things and lead the way in a few others.

Obviously, the other poster was referring to present-day China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

1. tea

You're comparing the boiling of leaves in water with modern engineering? That's a stretch and a half.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

5. Printing press

Incorrect. The Chinese invented woodblock printing and movable type. Gutenberg invented the printing press.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

6. Water wheel

Incorrect. Mesopotamia or Greece. Pop over to Wikipedia for details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

hybrid rice (feeds over a quarter of the earth) a little bit bigger deal than apple iPod etc..

Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

Lead the way with solar panels, wind turbines & renewable energies in general.

Incorrect. I build satellites for a living. We buy the best solar arrays and cells that money can buy. They don't come from China. While China may use those technologies extensively, obviously not extensively enough given the pollution in Chinese cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

Oh I almost forgot, China owns most of the US money and has taken most of the jobs & now the American president bows to the Chinese vice president.

China hasn't "taken most of the jobs." Greedy U.S. business people have moved jobs to China to take advantage of the rampant poverty and lack of protection for workers. As to Obama bowing, it was done as a sign of respect -- and because the Chinese leader was so damned short that Obama didn't want to be towering over him.
post #27 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmaxwell View Post

C As to Obama bowing, it was done as a sign of respec

Sadly, an attitude conspicuously absent from conventional political discourse in the US about foreign policy. At least from the right.
post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

Ikrupp's quote "China invents, innovates, designs, precisely NOTHING."

I enjoy your racist uniformed comments, your lack of knowledge is only surpassed by your utter ignorance.

China has invented quite a few things and lead the way in a few others.
1. tea
2. Silk
3. Porcelain
4. Gunpowder
5. Printing press
6. Water wheel
etc....
More currently
hybrid rice (feeds over a quarter of the earth) a little bit bigger deal than apple iPod etc..
Lead the way with solar panels, wind turbines & renewable energies in general.

Oh I almost forgot, China owns most of the US money and has taken most of the jobs & now the American president bows to the Chinese vice president.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2393498/posts

No, I am not Chinese, but your comment is still very insulting & stupid.


Let's not forget water torture! It's named after them for a reason.

post #29 of 57
What a pain in the ass
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

"The Luxpro suit was filed in Texarkana, Ark., in October of 2008."

Wow! A patent suit NOT filed in Tyler, Texas!

The whole patent system is antiquated, burdensome, and needs to change.

Er.... that is Marshal, Texas not Tyler. Tyler is a slightly larger town about 70 miles away.

Just a thought.
en
post #31 of 57
Just to correct a couple of points above - not to get too far off topic. I was just pointing out the idiocy of the poster to claim china invents, engineers, designs nothing. That's a terrible view that is not true of any race or country.

Here are a couple of more facts

China-based Suntech, now the world’s largest maker of solar panels.

Make fun of the tea market -
#1 drink in the world, a 5000 year old industry, currently 7.8 million tons at $2.30 a kilogram - you do the math, that's a heck of a business. Do you think computers & cell phone market will last that long? Made those europeans cross half the world for it.

Sorry think wikipedia is wrong Chinese waterwheel predates mespotania's -
The waterwheel was found in China by the time of the Han Dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD), when it was used to power trip hammers,Needham (1986), Volume 4, Part 2, 390–392 the bellows in smelting iron,de Crespigny (2007), 184Needham (1986), Volume 4, Part 2, 370. and in one case, to mechanically rotate an armillary sphere for astronomical observation - but's that not engineering as a previous post said.

It's not a custom to bow in China, shaking hands is the appropriate greeting there.
Obama not the brightest bulb, lol, & besides it's been customary for presidents not to bow to royalty as of George Washington, & on top he's only the vp not royalty - I'd hate Obama to meet the burger king.

before you stereo type a people you should think & probably just be quiet.
post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

It's not a custom to bow in China, shaking hands is the appropriate greeting there.
Obama not the brightest bulb, lol, & it's been customary for presidents not to bow to royalty as of George Washington, & on top he's only the vp not royalty - I'd hate Obama to meet the burger king.

what is all the fuss about obama bowing? he did not offend anyone, it's not like he almost caused a war by causing offence or improper behaviour. if this is the worst his detractors can talk about he must be doing ok.
(no. i am not an american and neither pro nor anti obama)
post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

China-based Suntech, now the worlds largest maker of solar panels.

Yes, but they don't make very good ones. They are not state of the art. They are not engineering the solar cells of the future. It's just cheap labor manufacturing low-cost products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

It's not a custom to bow in China

Well God knows we have to conform to all of China's customs. We could not ever improvise any sign of respect that was not in keeping with what most people in China do.

Perhaps you would have preferred that he hold hands and kiss the way that Bush did with the Saudi Prince:

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n...audiPrince.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ol0cqA6bjG...sh-abdulah.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

Obama not the brightest bulb

How dare you, you ignorant little turd?! Obama is brilliant, as his academic and political achievements so perfectly demonstrate. You don't get elected to be President of the Harvard Law Review by being anything less than brilliant. You are an idiot and a tool.
post #34 of 57
You forgot to mention that well earned peace prize. Most people actually have to do something to get one
post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

You forgot to mention that well earned peace prize. Most people actually have to do something to get one

i am sure everybody agrees that receiving the noble peace prize at this time was a little odd, but please explain to me: how does this decision by the nobel committee prove that he is not "the brightest bulb"...

you're not making much sense here.
post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

You forgot to mention that well earned peace prize. Most people actually have to do something to get one

What did he do?
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

Ikrupp's quote "China invents, innovates, designs, precisely NOTHING."

I enjoy your racist uniformed comments, your lack of knowledge is only surpassed by your utter ignorance.

China has invented quite a few things and lead the way in a few others.
1. tea
2. Silk
3. Porcelain
4. Gunpowder
5. Printing press
6. Water wheel
etc....
More currently
hybrid rice (feeds over a quarter of the earth) a little bit bigger deal than apple iPod etc..
Lead the way with solar panels, wind turbines & renewable energies in general.

Oh I almost forgot, China owns most of the US money and has taken most of the jobs & now the American president bows to the Chinese vice president.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2393498/posts

No, I am not Chinese, but your comment is still very insulting & stupid.


Your comments are pretty offensive as well and at least Obama didn't vomit on anyone. LOL (I don't care for Obama it's just a funny thought; bow before you vomit? At least it only gets on the shoes).

Oh and while hybrid rice produces higher yields it prevents farmers from capturing their own seeds (since they are all sterile male plants) Forcing farmers to buy rice from the company that clones them (and owns the patent), the seeds cost more (about 60% more), they are more sensitive to weeds and blight, so you have to use more chemicals and labor to protect the crop and ultimately the grain weighs less, therefore it doesn't mean higher profits only higher yield and not a high enough yield to justify the extra cost. Apparently it also means a less tasty rice as well. There's allot of work to do before GMO can really claim to solve the worlds problems.
turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
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turtles all the way up and turtles all the way down... infinite context means infinite possibility
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post #38 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

You forgot to mention that well earned peace prize. Most people actually have to do something to get one

I won't presume to speak for the Norwegian Nobel Committee as their own press release explains their reasoning for presenting him with the award:
The Nobel Peace Prize for 2009

The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons.

Obama has as President created a new climate in international politics. Multilateral diplomacy has regained a central position, with emphasis on the role that the United Nations and other international institutions can play. Dialogue and negotiations are preferred as instruments for resolving even the most difficult international conflicts. The vision of a world free from nuclear arms has powerfully stimulated disarmament and arms control negotiations. Thanks to Obama's initiative, the USA is now playing a more constructive role in meeting the great climatic challenges the world is confronting. Democracy and human rights are to be strengthened.

Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future. His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population.

For 108 years, the Norwegian Nobel Committee has sought to stimulate precisely that international policy and those attitudes for which Obama is now the world's leading spokesman. The Committee endorses Obama's appeal that "Now is the time for all of us to take our share of responsibility for a global response to global challenges."

Oslo, October 9, 2009

As an American, I was proud to see our President honored in this way.
post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulldecent View Post

>> I wonder how much cheaper our products would be if the cost of copyright, trademark and patent, and class action lawsuit costs were not factored into the cost of the products.

well... just look at the price of comparable products sold in China, where they don't have copyrights, trademarks, patents or class action lawsuits.

er companies need to recoup R&D guys. A lot of these cheap chinese products are copies hence drastically reduced prices. Not all of course and the price of the Apple laptop PSU is a disgrace. Looking forward to the effect of the EU ruling on standardised mobile phone chargers. Laptops are next...

I am not saying the Chinese are not innovative or anything, just you can buy a lot of "no name" copies from warehouses in China that are clearly patent violations. My mountain bike light springs to mind, no label, identical to a high end product and less than one quarter of the price. There obviously needs to be a middle ground between rip off adapters from apple and dirt cheap copies which don't have to pay for the R&D.
post #40 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xing View Post

Ikrupp's quote "China invents, innovates, designs, precisely NOTHING."

I enjoy your racist uniformed comments, your lack of knowledge is only surpassed by your utter ignorance.

China has invented quite a few things and lead the way in a few others.
1. tea
2. Silk
3. Porcelain
4. Gunpowder
5. Printing press
6. Water wheel
etc....
More currently
hybrid rice (feeds over a quarter of the earth) a little bit bigger deal than apple iPod etc..
Lead the way with solar panels, wind turbines & renewable energies in general.

Oh I almost forgot, China owns most of the US money and has taken most of the jobs & now the American president bows to the Chinese vice president.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2393498/posts

No, I am not Chinese, but your comment is still very insulting & stupid.

China: Paper and Woodblock Printing
Gutenberg for the Metal movable type Printing Press on ideas and technologies innovated originally in China.
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