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Intel's Six-Core 'Gulftown' processor revealed, possibly headed to Mac Pro - Page 2

post #41 of 91
A midrange tower is not coming folks.

The only reason for a tower is expandability and with video professionals moving to tapeless storage and with the necessity of external storage the need for a big box that holds a lot of "stuff" is waning.

The i7 is the first iMac that is somewhat suitable for Prosumer work regarding speed. I think that if Light Peak takes off it'll allow for very fast exernal storage and other peripherals. Basically all the content creator needs in front on him/her is a good display setup and the grunt power.
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post #42 of 91
Looks blankly.

A mid-tower is a semantic for me.

Give the Mac Pro a steep price cut. Let's face it. Take the £700-1000 display off the Nehalem iMac? And you're left with a £700 computer.

Hmmm. That's a 'turbo' edition Mac Mini with 4850.

Many 'mid tower' buyers would take that.

Or give the Mac Pro quad (massively overpriced as it is...especially in light of the Nehalem iMac...) a massive price cut. £700. It's about all it's worth to me without a '27.5 inch' monitor.

It's hardly an all out effort for Apple to give us a 'Mac Maxi' along the lines of the Mac Mini but with a quad i5 with 4850.

One is a cpu that costs a few hundred and the other is a gpu that is less than a hundred. Hardly premium parts (oh...they're in the 'top of the range' iMac...)

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post #43 of 91
Quote:
A midrange tower is not coming folks.

The only reason for a tower is expandability and with video professionals moving to tapeless storage and with the necessity of external storage the need for a big box that holds a lot of "stuff" is waning.

The i7 is the first iMac that is somewhat suitable for Prosumer work regarding speed. I think that if Light Peak takes off it'll allow for very fast exernal storage and other peripherals. Basically all the content creator needs in front on him/her is a good display setup and the grunt power.

Well, the fact that you can probably run the forthcoming 'sexa-Mac Pro' 12 hard cores through a '27.5' inch iMac is a state of things to come. You basically turbo your prosumer workstation with the 'render farm' Pro box.

It doesn't look like the 'mid tower' is coming. But it's not like they can't fit it in their line up. The Mac Mini is still under powered and expensive to me. STILL no discrete gpu and where's the quad core option? At least offer the option. And if it's too small...make a bigger special edition one.

It's not like Apple's desktop options are overcrowded with choice.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #44 of 91
Desktops really don't matter as much anymore. No one is going to put a lot of money into them when Laptops are the driving force for revenue/profit.

I think the mini will go Quad when we get Sandy Bridge products but until then I expect that Arrandale will be the "go to" processor.

I'd love for the Mini to start at $499 (remove the optical drive and ship it with an open SATA bay). It's a great utilitarian desktop.
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post #45 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Performance numbers of Intel's new six-core Xeon were prematurely revealed by Polish website PCLab, showing strong increases in performance for the chip rumored to be in the next iteration of the Mac Pro.

This begs the following question: when will Apple (and others) re-write their software to take full advantage of these multi-core processors? I've had Compressor encoding jobs last over 2 days (really long HD projects, different output formats). Same with Color rendering.

When will we see the following take advantage of OpenCL, GCD, and become 64-bit?
Final Cut Pro
Color
DVD Studio Pro
Compressor
Photoshop
etc etc.....

We are waiting for this updated MacPro and hoping that Apple starts eating its own dog food (rewrite its own software to take advantage of its own OS techs).
post #46 of 91
Neruda, that's a good point. Without a complete overhaul of Final Cut Studio, Logic etc this software won't be able to take advantage of these cores and GPUs etc.

It's time for Apple to stop talking about these technologies and start using them.

All developers know that optimization is most driven by in-house use. These technologies won't mature until Apple start using them on their own major projects. The quality required for professional computer applications will surely drive Apple to further optimize and bugcheck their features. Until Apple proves they themselves trust the new features, then there's no valid reason to expect other development houses to do the same.

For the quality of Apple's professional line, for the good of these new technologies, and for the trust of all major Mac developers, Apple needs to start eating it's dogfood and ungrade their professional line to Snow Leopard tech.
post #47 of 91
That's neat in getting a 50% boost in processing while saving 50% in power. Must be the smaller die size of the chips.

Now that AMD has a billion and a half or more of Intel's money we may see some good products coming from them. Maybe then Apple will offer AMD procs in their wares.
post #48 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post

This begs the following question: when will Apple (and others) re-write their software to take full advantage of these multi-core processors?...


Well Snow Leopard with Grand Central Dispatch was just released, it will obviously take time for programs to be rewritten to take full advantage of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Dispatch
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post #49 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by krispie View Post

What's the problem with the current design?

I know huh. I mean the case is what it is ands it's perfect the way it is. Don't see any reason to change it.
post #50 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I would buy this machine in s heartbeat! Great post!

I know. Buying the machine i
mean. Perfect timing. Remeber the sales of the air? Very flat and should have used a small non ssd drive and sold for $999 but they painted themsef into a corner, thus no notebook.

Now with the 12/24 core, they can, in thory make that the mac pro and release a headless 4/8 core gaming, prosumer,pci card semi high end machine for $999 and would have sales from pros for their b and c rooms, prosumers, gamers, you name it. It would fill a huge gap. It's the perfect opportunity. Or just slash the existing pro in half and call it the mac Pro Sumer. Lol

fwiw, with the low heat, pc windows users will have a field day with hackntosh. Since heat is the number one enemy, this chip looks to run cool and because if tge bios we could see theses Chios running almost double their iringinal speed so even if apple does not do thus, these new chips would O/C big time and would be insanly fast.

Peace.

Cmon apple. This I'd the time to do it. :-)
post #51 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

A measly 6 cores?


I'll wait for the 80 core Intel monster to arrive in 5 to 6 years

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/s...leID=196901229



And if that's not enough there's the 1000 core processor in the works

http://www.hizook.com/blog/2007/03/1...vision-of-asap


Too much power, but if you need to get drunk what's better than power?

Now that's hardcore.

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post #52 of 91
Quote:
In a previous story, Hardmac reported that the new Mac Pro will have a modified motherboard with a 10Gbit/second Ethernet port and will support 8GB and 16GB RAM modules, allowing for a maximum of 128GB of RAM. The report also stated that it is likely that Apple would have short-term exclusive use of the i9 processor. Apple has enjoyed short-term exclusivity during the release of the previous two Mac Pro lines.


Hardmac or its original, French, web site, Macbidouille http://www.macbidouille.com are well connected and generally quite reliable. I used to read MacBidouille until they stopped publishing rumors at the request of Apple legal. This was also when MacOSRumors was closed down at the request of Apple legal.

My own personal guess is that they are well connected with the French and European developpers of Mac OS X and related software. Apple VP of software development is Bertrand Serlet, a Frenchman working in Paris.

And, contrary to the prevailing opinion, I believe that Apple does NOT dislike rumors, provided that they are forward looking, e.g. one year in advance, because they generate a positive buzz and free publicity. In some cases (not here), floating a rumor is an inexpensive way to test the market for upcoming features.

If I were on the market for a MacPro or an XServe, I would believe this rumor and wait for the Core i9 upgrade. As Apple is both the only computer builder with an Intel exclusive policy and a small market (4% or 5% world market share), it enjoys an early access to pre-release units of new CPU models.

Just my 2¢, but it is backed up by 21 years on the Apple rumor and news scene.


post #53 of 91
You can never have enough power. As long as you convert a HD movie from one format to another and twiddle your thumbs, there will be room for innovation. I'd just like to see some hard drive innovation alongside the CPU. SSDs are very nice and look to be the future, so how about a modular approach to designing the inners of our computers. At least we could jump on future improvements a little more cheaply.
post #54 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

So 12 cores would be Duodecore or Duodecacore, although I prefer the Greek prefix:

Dodecacore

But not as sexy as Sexacore.

I wonder if there'll ever be a Centicore = 100 cores!

...aaand that's gonna be a monster too!
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post #55 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

You can never have enough power. As long as you convert a HD movie from one format to another and twiddle your thumbs, there will be room for innovation. I'd just like to see some hard drive innovation alongside the CPU. SSDs are very nice and look to be the future, so how about a modular approach to designing the inners of our computers. At least we could jump on future improvements a little more cheaply.

Yes. More great ideas. Turn on the computer and it's there. Make the os on the chip. Instant on. The file, storage on ram,like the new ssd but fastercas apparently, the more you add, the slower it gets. The wndoze world had this prgram that took dailey, the weekly, etc programs and moved them to the fastest part of the HD. ImAgine something like that on programmble Ram. It remembered.
post #56 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

I wonder if Apple will refresh the case.
The current one is something like 4 years old at this point, so it's long overdue.

I'm looking for a quad-core MacBook Pro.

Actually I don't see a quad core as of now. The Power consumption would be the issue. Battery and bus requirements are a demand. Only a lower powered lower nanometer cpu would work. I would see a Core i7 http://www.intel.com/Consumer/Learn/...ei7-detail.htm Apple has been migrating over to the ix Based Processor's for their machines. Makes sense. They are going to become mainstream and the next gen processors will come out in 2 to 3 years depending on the quarter.

Also the next gen Graphics cards will be a plus in the Mac Pro and Mac Book Pro. Nvidia rules the market in gaming. How many of us who play games have seen "Nvidia the way it's meant to be played". I would prefer the 17" glossy and bump up the ram to pleasing 16 GB. Currently all books come to 4 and some to 8. i7 Processor is sweet. i9 is even sweeter in a Mac Pro. Case design.. You will just have to see. I do know that the current one has been working well. But the labor in assembly is a bit time consuming. Manufacturing the sheets is not so bad and the bending process is OK. Its the internal chassis and internal assembly that cost on the labor side. Size, weight and cost of shipping is a factor. The Mac Pro can weigh about 50 pounds. That takes up some fuel. I would say it is the most costly unit on fuel to ship.

One more thing. Apple has a new technology for the transfer of data between two devices. It is in the future. It will make Fire Wire a thing of the past.

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post #57 of 91
very cool,
been wondering if Apple was gonna phase out the MacPro :O
This is one for the wish list - at least until I win a comp
anyway
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post #58 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by synapticlight View Post

very cool,
been wondering if Apple was gonna phase out the MacPro :O
This is one for the wish list - at least until I win a comp
anyway

OK, when it comes to saying that the Mac Pro will go bye bye in it's current case design... Or go bye bye all together... Probably not on the later as for the previous, maybe a new revision. I cannot say... I do know that as technology advances (evolves) so does the need to develop new housings. The current design of the mac pro case is pretty nice and functional by some standards. A new upgrade to chassis design will most likely be spawned by saving on energy, material and labor. It will be determined by such standards.

Apple has paved the way in combining three words. GREEN and Personal Technology. you will have to wait and see. But I do agree... Chomp.
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post #59 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

A midrange tower is not coming folks.
.

I agree. The i5 iMac drove a stake through the heart of the xMac and twisted it for good measure.

The gulf between the iMac and Mac Pro now isn't just narrowed, it's completely erased. Just what niche is this xMac going to fill?

If I was a Mac Pro I'd be looking over my shoulder, especially if light peak is all that.
post #60 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Performance numbers of Intel's new six-core Xeon were prematurely revealed by Polish website PCLab, showing strong increases in performance for the chip rumored to be in the next iteration of the Mac Pro.

Hardmac reported that test and performance results of Intel's new 6-core Xeon chips code-named "Gulftown" were briefly featured on PCLab before being taken down at the request of Intel. According to the test results, the new chips are nearly 50% faster than the previous quad-core Xenon during parallel tasks, and use up to 50% less power.

This chip will, according to sources, be featured in future Mac Pro models that could arrive as early as the first quarter of 2010. The "Gulftown" chip will be sold under the Core i9 name and will be Intel's first six-core, dual-socket processor. The 32 nanometer chips feature 12MB of L3 cache. If paired with another chip, as Apple usually does in its high-end workstations, the processors will offer 12 physical and 24 logical cores.

In a previous story, Hardmac reported that the new Mac Pro will have a modified motherboard with a 10Gbit/second Ethernet port and will support 8GB and 16GB RAM modules, allowing for a maximum of 128GB of RAM. The report also stated that it is likely that Apple would have short-term exclusive use of the i9 processor. Apple has enjoyed short-term exclusivity during the release of the previous two Mac Pro lines.

They could use gulf town, but I doubt they'll use the Core i9 designation unless intel plans on getting rid of the Xeon branding. Then again with current cores and xeons being repackaged versions of the same CPUS, that would make sense.
post #61 of 91
I wonder if there will still be 4 core versions made on the 32nm process sold alongside the 6 cores for less money.

Not a prediction, but a wish:

Apple intoduces 2 workstation class machines.

Line 1:
Current case, all dual processor. 4x2 or 6x2 cores.
12 DIMM slots.

Line 2:
All new smaller design. (smaller power supply, 3 PCI Express slots, 3 HDD bays, 1 Optical bay)
Single processor. 4x1 or 6x1 cores.
6 DIMM slots.

The Line 2 case would be their introduction to the line that eventually take over the high end as well, perhaps a larger version of it to accommodate the 2 processors. It's not an xMac, but would use less expensive components cut down on some expansion (the 'only' 3 drive bays can be converted to 6 SSD - 2.5" - bays with an optional sled) and use less material externally (greener).
post #62 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Well, the fact that you can probably run the forthcoming 'sexa-Mac Pro' 12 hard cores through a '27.5' inch iMac is a state of things to come. You basically turbo your prosumer workstation with the 'render farm' Pro box.

It doesn't look like the 'mid tower' is coming. But it's not like they can't fit it in their line up. The Mac Mini is still under powered and expensive to me. STILL no discrete gpu and where's the quad core option? At least offer the option. And if it's too small...make a bigger special edition one.

It's not like Apple's desktop options are overcrowded with choice.

Lemon Bon Bon.


You're not just paying for hardware in the case of any Apple. Their machines come with a decent software package and Apple has been less greedy over the years when it comes to their OS. You don't have various grades of the OS, some costing ridiculous amounts of money. There's one OS and it costs less to keep up with the latest version than it does keeping up in the PC world.

Granted, the Mini is still underpowered for the needs of some but with each version that number keeps on shrinking. Instead of looking at this in relative terms, i.e. what do you get spec-wise vs. a similarly priced PC, it needs to be looked at in the context of what the heck are you going to do with the machine, once you set it up. In the case of the current Mini, the answer is quite a lot, especially if you do what I did, namely hook up a 7200 RPM terabyte drive via Firewire 800.

It may be true that the Mini will always be a step or two behind in terms of its core technology but when that technology reaches the performance levels that get the job done, what does it matter? Looking ahead, bringing up the rear the Mini will come with quad-core chips and not as an expensive option but rather as part of the basic configuration. No doubt even quad-core will be tame compared to what a Mini circa 2014 will be based on. While it might seem outrageous now, there will come a time when performance levels in the Mini form factor will surpass what will soon be available in the Mac Pro line. My current Mini is far superior to the then state-of-the-art tower I bought a few years back. Sunk $7,000 Cdn. into the thing and got a couple hundred when I traded it in back in '06. The Mini that cost me less than $700, meanwhile, I just traded in for roughly half the original cost and it had more horsepower than the $7,000 tower (the original dual-core G4).

Truth is that right now, most amateurs can get by with the latest Mini. I'm doing tons of Photoshop, working on an HD video, etc. I'd love more speed, sure, but it's getting the job done rather well, all things considered. In about three or four years time I'll likely be able to trade my latest Mini in, get a decent dollar for it, and pick up a Mini with a lot more horsepower. I'll be able to do this for less than $1,000. From where I sit, life is good for Mac customers like me, much better than the days of $7,000 towers.
post #63 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I wonder if there will still be 4 core versions made on the 32nm process sold alongside the 6 cores for less money.

There was a report some time ago that the desktop version of Gulftown would be an "Extreme Edition" part and so would coexist with 45 nm quad-core Bloomfields. I wonder if we'll see something similar for the Xeon Gulftown. The fewer models of Gulftown there will be released, the more chance there is for more Gainestown models to remain. Kinda like the 2007 Clovertown update (except I expect the upcoming update to be more substantial).

We may see 4 core Mac Pros just because Gulftown appears to be high priced.
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post #64 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

A midrange tower is not coming folks.

The only reason for a tower is expandability and with video professionals moving to tapeless storage and with the necessity of external storage the need for a big box that holds a lot of "stuff" is waning.

The i7 is the first iMac that is somewhat suitable for Prosumer work regarding speed. I think that if Light Peak takes off it'll allow for very fast exernal storage and other peripherals. Basically all the content creator needs in front on him/her is a good display setup and the grunt power.

I would describe the G5's as capable of doing some prosumer work, then Apple took some steps backwards with the Intel iMacs. Then again, they did give you a choice back then. You could have a PowerMac or iMac with the same CPU for the same money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMacmatician View Post

There was a report some time ago that the desktop version of Gulftown would be an "Extreme Edition" part and so would coexist with 45 nm quad-core Bloomfields. I wonder if we'll see something similar for the Xeon Gulftown. The fewer models of Gulftown there will be released, the more chance there is for more Gainestown models to remain. Kinda like the 2007 Clovertown update (except I expect the upcoming update to be more substantial).

We may see 4 core Mac Pros just because Gulftown appears to be high priced.

They're raised the PowerMac/Mac Pro prices $1000 in the last five years. I don't think charing a bit more for gulftown would be a problem.
post #65 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by krispie View Post

What's the problem with the current design?

More. Drive. Bays.
post #66 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Sure you would, but it would be at the expense of a iMac or Mac Mini, which is why Apple isn't going to release it. Not to mention it wouldn't be making it's typical twenty to thirty percent profit.

I'm one of those people that has already have two nice displays that would love an apple desktop solution now that I've moved to a MBP for my laptop, but I don't have any interest in an underpowered mac mini or the imac which costs $2,000 to get the performance I want. And I don't want to spend the $ for a Mac Pro when I can get better performance for less from a windows box. If Apple made a mid range tower I'd buy it and it wouldn't be costing Apple a sale
post #67 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavfan1 View Post

I'm one of those people that has already have two nice displays that would love an apple desktop solution now that I've moved to a MBP for my laptop, but I don't have any interest in an underpowered mac mini or the imac which costs $2,000 to get the performance I want. And I don't want to spend the $ for a Mac Pro when I can get better performance for less from a windows box. If Apple made a mid range tower I'd buy it and it wouldn't be costing Apple a sale

Better performance from a windows box has always been there. There's really no need for a midrange tower at this point. Sure there are a handful of people that bring it up routinely but I'm not convinced in the least that there's an untapped market for people that want a $1300-1700 box aimed at crowd that doesn't want a Mac Pro. There's just no room for it.
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post #68 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neruda View Post

This begs the following question: when will Apple (and others) re-write their software to take full advantage of these multi-core processors? I've had Compressor encoding jobs last over 2 days (really long HD projects, different output formats). Same with Color rendering.

When will we see the following take advantage of OpenCL, GCD, and become 64-bit?
Final Cut Pro
Color
DVD Studio Pro
Compressor
Photoshop
etc etc.....

We are waiting for this updated MacPro and hoping that Apple starts eating its own dog food (rewrite its own software to take advantage of its own OS techs).

Those are all Carbon apps. Rewriting them will be a massive project complicated by the executive decision not to release a 64-bit Carbon library.

Since these are pro apps, and there's a lot of money riding on the fact that they work consistently and a lot of training built around the way they work, Apple can't do what they did when they released the first Cocoa iMovie. Remember that? They actually had to offer the old Carbon one for download.

I have no doubt that there are phalanxes of engineers working on rewriting all these apps to 64 bit Cocoa. I do not envy any of them their jobs.

[edit: I just noticed Photoshop in that list. That's a whole new kind of hurt for Adobe. They have a single codebase, built by rolling Carbon into the core classes of the existing Photoshop for Windows. They can't just rewrite the Mac version. They are now facing the exact same situation they faced when Apple announced Rhapsody, but Apple's the company in the driver's seat this time. I really don't envy those engineers.]
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post #69 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyhyde@me.com View Post

More. Drive. Bays.

Four is enough for a desktop machine, surely?
post #70 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorph View Post

Those are all Carbon apps. Rewriting them will be a massive project complicated by the executive decision not to release a 64-bit Carbon library.

Since these are pro apps, and there's a lot of money riding on the fact that they work consistently and a lot of training built around the way they work, Apple can't do what they did when they released the first Cocoa iMovie. Remember that? They actually had to offer the old Carbon one for download.

I have no doubt that there are phalanxes of engineers working on rewriting all these apps to 64 bit Cocoa. I do not envy any of them their jobs.

Apples pro apps, iLife and iTunes are surely being rewritten as 32/64-bit Cocoa apps but Id wager the more complex the app the longer it will take. These arent apps like QuickTime X which can be pushed out as much simpler versions of their predecessor. They have to be nearly feature complete when they hot they hit the ground.

I am pretty certain theyll be using the X designation for all these 32/64-bit Cocoa apps and expect most of them to come in 2010. Id also stay away from using them as my primary app until I am certain there are no detrimental bugs or missing features that one may not be able to live without.
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post #71 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by krispie View Post

Four is enough for a desktop machine, surely?

I think so. Any Mac Pro in a company should have a proper enterprise level back up solution or SAN/NAS. The only thing I can think of is to have a stripped array for performance reasons? Surely 3 bars are enough for that.
post #72 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apples pro apps, iLife and iTunes are surely being rewritten as 32/64-bit Cocoa apps but Id wager the more complex the app the longer it will take. These arent apps like QuickTime X which can be pushed out as much simpler versions of their predecessor. They have to be nearly feature complete when they hot they hit the ground.

The punchline is that QuickTime X could be pushed out quickly because when it's given a task it can't do it simply punts it to the old 32 bit QuickTime under the covers. QuickTime can thereby be transitioned to Cocoa slowly, gracefully and more or less transparently.

Unfortunately, you can't do that so easily with end-user applications. The UI and controller code are Cocoa or they aren't. The business logic is Grand Central savvy or it isn't. The app is 64 bit or it isn't. Apple's decision to kill 64-bit Carbon has given application developers a bright line to cross, and Apple is just as surely affected by that decision as any of their partners.

Like I said, I wouldn't want to be one of the engineers tasked with rewriting those apps. On the plus side, once they're rewritten and the worst bugs and glitches are shaken out, they should fly on multicore hardware.
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"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

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post #73 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorph View Post

The punchline is that QuickTime X could be pushed out quickly because when it's given a task it can't do it simply punts it to the old 32 bit QuickTime under the covers. QuickTime can thereby be transitioned to Cocoa slowly, gracefully and more or less transparently.

Unfortunately, you can't do that so easily with end-user applications. The UI and controller code are Cocoa or they aren't. The business logic is Grand Central savvy or it isn't. The app is 64 bit or it isn't. Apple's decision to kill 64-bit Carbon has given application developers a bright line to cross, and Apple is just as surely affected by that decision as any of their partners.

Like I said, I wouldn't want to be one of the engineers tasked with rewriting those apps. On the plus side, once they're rewritten and the worst bugs and glitches are shaken out, they should fly on multicore hardware.

I'm sure that writing the pro apps, or even the consumer apps, in Cocoa is a difficult proposition. But when did Apple kill 64 bit Carbon and force developers to move to Cocoa? Wasn't that in 2007? Even before then Apple was telling developers that Cocoa was the "future' and to write their apps in Cocoa. I know this is rehashing previous debates on how Apple has handled the 32 to 64 bit transition, but my point is that Apple should have been working on 'Cocoafying' the Apple apps a long time ago. Just like they told everyone else to do. If they haven't they have no one to blame but themselves.

If Apple can't get some Cocoa apps out in 2010, iLIfe and/or pro apps, I think its a fair question to ask 'what the hell is going on'.
post #74 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I'm sure that writing the pro apps, or even the consumer apps, in Cocoa is a difficult proposition. But when did Apple kill 64 bit Carbon and force developers to move to Cocoa? Wasn't that in 2007? Even before then Apple was telling developers that Cocoa was the "future' and to write their apps in Cocoa. I know this is rehashing previous debates on how Apple has handled the 32 to 64 bit transition, but my point is that Apple should have been working on 'Cocoafying' the Apple apps a long time ago. Just like they told everyone else to do. If they haven't they have no one to blame but themselves.

If Apple can't get some Cocoa apps out in 2010, iLIfe and/or pro apps, I think its a fair question to ask 'what the hell is going on'.

I dont think he was implying that they didnt start the changeover awhile back, just that its going to take awhile for the complete rewrite while making it look, feel and act just like the Carbon app, at least in all the important parts.

I think 2010s WWDC is when well see most of the Pro apps appearing with iTunes X coming along with the iPod Special event in the early fall. I have no idea when iLife could hit. Maybe with the release of the next Pro Macs (and new LED backlit ACDs) in Jan/Feb. Now that the Snow Leopard launch has been completed its time to start pushing they revised apps out. At least, that is how Id work it providing there are not other odd delays we dont know about.
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post #75 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

my point is that Apple should have been working on 'Cocoafying' the Apple apps a long time ago. Just like they told everyone else to do. If they haven't they have no one to blame but themselves.

This is exactly the point. Apple should be one of the first developers to use their own technologies instead of telling developers "do as I say not as I do." Apple's Pro apps would benefit greatly just from GCD optimization, now imagine if they were also 64-bit and/or optimized for OpenCL? I am looking forward to the day when these apps can take full advantage of these multi-core processors. Maybe next year.
post #76 of 91
The last rumor I read said that these processors were delayed until Q2. We'll see.
post #77 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorph View Post

[edit: I just noticed Photoshop in that list. That's a whole new kind of hurt for Adobe. They have a single codebase, built by rolling Carbon into the core classes of the existing Photoshop for Windows. They can't just rewrite the Mac version. They are now facing the exact same situation they faced when Apple announced Rhapsody, but Apple's the company in the driver's seat this time. I really don't envy those engineers.]

If Adobe could make the right move and implement Cocoa across both Windows and Mac platforms, this wouldn't be an issue. Cocotron or GNUstep could totally do this, and would most likely allow them to offer more uniform products (not to mention uniform codebases) across OSes. Adobe makes some great headway in their non CS endeavors but often leaves them for dead (Alchemy), maybe this will change some day.
post #78 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

That's neat in getting a 50% boost in processing while saving 50% in power. Must be the smaller die size of the chips.

Now that AMD has a billion and a half or more of Intel's money we may see some good products coming from them. Maybe then Apple will offer AMD procs in their wares.

It's an amazing thing. Especially if true. As I was saying yesterday if it is trru asbmany oc know heat is the enemy of overclocking so if true, we'll be seeing hacntosh machines running at almost double the speed. Or better, a 6 core oc double equalling a 12 is even better. Really, I know some think oh cheesy, but seriously, if you like mac software, are a musician, editor, you can get really nice rack cases upward of $300 just for the case.

I still think Apple is missing out with no mid range. Huge market.
Gamers
musicians
prosumers
editors just starring out
rendering farms in which I see huge mac front end but all PC farms due to price and performance.

I think I read not to long ago. Not only were they dropping shake but the pro app development team is tiny compared to consumer now which is a shame as they could have it all and then some. They just have to realize smaller studios and just starting out companies need power AND upgrabilility.
post #79 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDonG4 View Post

If Adobe could make the right move and implement Cocoa across both Windows and Mac platforms, this wouldn't be an issue. Cocotron or GNUstep could totally do this, and would most likely allow them to offer more uniform products (not to mention uniform codebases) across OSes. Adobe makes some great headway in their non CS endeavors but often leaves them for dead (Alchemy), maybe this will change some day.

Firstly, GNUstep isn't ready. Close, but not ready. Secondly, it's GPL. Adobe will use LGPL but not GPL regarding their code base.
post #80 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Better performance from a windows box has always been there. There's really no need for a midrange tower at this point. Sure there are a handful of people that bring it up routinely but I'm not convinced in the least that there's an untapped market for people that want a $1300-1700 box aimed at crowd that doesn't want a Mac Pro. There's just no room for it.

Let's take away starting editors, musicians, who must by tthe way have a lot of ram for all thier virtual instruments and extreme horsepower to run it all together, take away the enthusiasts and look at gamers.

Gamers alone, by themself, make up MORE sales then music and video COMBINED.

I don't know why Apple refuses to see this. Or why some see this problem as only a handful. The truth of the matter is a great gaming machine equates a great musician or Pro Apps machine and Apple has this silly notion Bravo, NBC, HBO, CBS etcetera, will stop buying Pro machines and buy theses instead. The irony is the pro market is far, far, far from their bread and butter. A midrange machine with iPhones and then dedicated Gpu to all laptops and Apple runs away with the market for quite some time allowing for better apps, more frequent updates to Pro apps and so on.

No offense to you but hardly is 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Again, it's all about apple and what they perceive as good graphics running PronApps. Once they get over that fear, the money will make them soon forget.

Peace
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