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Apple's iPhone 'halo effect' lifts Mac to 16.4% sales growth

post #1 of 102
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Global Mac sales have significantly outpaced the rest of the PC market, which expanded just 2.3 percent year over year -- just more evidence of the iPhone halo effect, according to one analyst.

In his latest installment of the "Wolf Bytes" investor note, Needham & Co. analyst Charlie Wolf said that the significant increase in Mac sales in September came in spite of the fact that Apple has refused to enter the inexpensive netbook market that only months ago was booming. Apple made the right decision to stick with its high-end, premium segment, he said.

Calling the netbook craze "the implosion of PC prices," Wolf noted that Mac sales did slide in March of 2009 by 0.7 percent, but Apple's share continued to grow as overall PC sales fell 6.7 percent. As both PC and Mac sales turned for the positive through September, Apple has continued to widen the gap, which now sits at 14.1 percentage points.

"We have consistently argued that Mac price cuts were a misguided strategy," Wolf said. "Such cuts would not have stimulated much demand because the price elasticity of demand for the Mac -- the one differentiated product in a sea of commodities -- was simply too low. They would end up decimating Apple's gross margin with little to show for it."

That "pricing discipline," as he called it, has led Apple to a worldwide revenue share of about 10 percent, while its market share hovers just north of 4 percent. In the U.S., the revenue share of PC sales for Macs rests above 20 percent, while the unit share is just above 10 percent.



Wolf credits continuing Mac expansion to the popularity of the iPhone, which, much like the iPod before it, has created a "halo effect" that encourages consumers to switch to the Mac. Only this time, he said, it seems as though the iPhone is even better at pulling in new users.

"We believe that the halo effect emanating from the iPhone should be even stronger than that surrounding the iPod," he said. "After all, the iPod is a relatively simple device while the iPhone is arguably a mini-computer wrapped in a phone's form factor."

Wolf has been a proponent of the iPhone halo effect theory for some time. As the iPhone cannibalizes iPod sales, the handset is expected to fill the role once carried by the media player.

Interestingly, the 16.4 percent growth in Mac sales in September was led overseas. While Mac sales increased 9.8 percent in the U.S., they spiked 38.7 percent in Europe and 27.1 percent in Asia.



Most of the success of the Mac of late has been thanks to the home market. Apple's home sales grew 28.8 percent worldwide in September, versus only 18.1 percent for the rest of the market. Education sales, too, were strong, growing 15.6 percent, while overall PC sales sagged 2.5 percent in schools. Apple, though, lost 12.4 percent in the business market, and 76.8 percent in government sales.



Last quarter, Apple sold a record 3 million Macs along with 7.4 million iPhones, increasing the company's profit more than 46 percent to $1.67 billion. The Mac maker is expected to sell an additional 2.9 million machines this quarter.
post #2 of 102
This result can't completely be attributed to the "halo effect". I think the quality of Apple's computers and word of mouth also had something to do with it. People aren't simply buying Macs because they think their iPhones are cool. People are gradually figuring out that Macs don't "suck" as some Winboys liked to froth, and that they are, in fact, really really nice computers. Some people were also likely to have been hugely attracted by the new unibody design of the MacBooks and especially the aluminum MacBook Pros.
post #3 of 102
Call it whatever you like - "halo effect" is nice, why not, one thing is for certain: Apple knows the market far better than any other player. They know how to create desire and excitement and make money at the same time. A rare feat in these times. Even more interesting, is that they now dominate the most profitable and most coveted segment of the market. Apple does indeed care about market share, but only in the most profitable segment.

The generic box makers, much to their misfortune, have absolutely no way of differentiating themselves - Sony is HP is Lenovo is Acer. And MS has no problem with whoring out their back-asswards copy of OS X to even the lousiest box-maker. Abusive codependent relationship indeed.
post #4 of 102
I have always thought the halo effect of the iPhone was a two edged sword unlike the iPod for precisely the reason the analyst states "the iPod is such a simple device and iPhone is a minicomputer". You need a iMac or Macbook to do much more with an iPod. The iPhone can almost stand alone. I had already switched to a mac before buying an iPhone and recently purchased a nice Macbook Pro, but unless the trip absolutely requires it, I find myself leaving the laptop at home and at times wondering if I really should have purchased it. It will certainly slow my need for a new notebook as long as I keep getting a new iPhone every 2 years or so.
post #5 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

This result can't completely be attributed to the "halo effect". I think the quality of Apple's computers and word of mouth also had something to do with it. People aren't simply buying Macs because they think their iPhones are cool. People are gradually figuring out that Macs don't "suck" as some Winboys liked to froth, and that they are, in fact, really really nice computers. Some people were also likely to have been hugely attracted by the new unibody design of the MacBooks and especially the aluminum MacBook Pros.

I agree and my 2 cents .... There isn't a day goes by I don't meet someone saying they are getting a Mac next or have just got one. Many say a friend or a relative has recently go one and love it so they are going to get one now. This is based on the Mac experience and subsequent enthusiastic recommendations not the iPhone Halo effect although I agree that is probably what started the ball rolling in the first place. The constant refrain I hear is "Oh why did I wait so long?" from recent switchers.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #6 of 102
Quote:
Most of the success of the Mac of late has been thanks to the home market. Apple's home sales grew 28.8 percent worldwide in September, versus only 18.1 percent for the rest of the market. Education sales, too, were strong, growing 15.6 percent, while overall PC sales sagged 2.5 percent in schools. Apple, though, lost 12.4 percent in the business market, and 76.8 percent in government sales.


Apple's stratagem of only targeting the rich niche consumer is seriously flawed.

Sure they are making a profit, I can make a profit selling lemonade in front of my house, but it's not going to "change the world" for the better and vulnerable to changes in the larger market.

For instance any crap change on the PC side is reflected on the Mac side, because Apple can't compete unless it uses commodity PC parts.

The economy is going to deal Apple a serious blow in the consumer market for the next several years and with virtually no footprint in other markets to compensate, we are looking a implosion here if Steve passes away.

Apple is going to wish it hedged itself and paid more attention to business and government sales, which can sign off on hundreds of thousands of computers with a single pen stroke.

Do you really think these businesses and governments want the headaches and billions of dollars of data loss using Windows?
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #7 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Call it whatever you like - "halo effect" is nice, why not, one thing is for certain: Apple knows the market far better than any other player. They know how to create desire and excitement and make money at the same time. A rare feat in these times. Even more interesting, is that they now dominate the most profitable and most coveted segment of the market. Apple does indeed care about market share, but only in the most profitable segment.

The generic box makers, much to their misfortune, have absolutely no way of differentiating themselves - Sony is HP is Lenovo is Acer. And MS has no problem with whoring out their back-asswards copy of OS X to even the lousiest box-maker. Abusive codependent relationship indeed.

'Halo effect' is a nice way of saying 'blood-bath.' This is how some of Apple's competitors view it!
post #8 of 102
2% growth vs. 16% growth is what Steve Ballmer would call a "rounding error". LOL.
post #9 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

I have always thought the halo effect of the iPhone was a two edged sword unlike the iPod for precisely the reason the analyst states "the iPod is such a simple device and iPhone is a minicomputer". You need a iMac or Macbook to do much more with an iPod. The iPhone can almost stand alone. I had already switched to a mac before buying an iPhone and recently purchased a nice Macbook Pro, but unless the trip absolutely requires it, I find myself leaving the laptop at home and at times wondering if I really should have purchased it. It will certainly slow my need for a new notebook as long as I keep getting a new iPhone every 2 years or so.

I'm in the same boat, Mark. I gave my MB to my daughter to go to school with the idea that I would be replacing it with an MBA.

But having just replaced my original iPhone with a new 3Gs, I've sort of put off buying the MBA and rely on my 3Gs when I'm out and about and my iMac's big screen when I'm home. What I really would like now is the new 27" iMac. Decisions, decisions. Apple by making it easy, sure makes it hard sometimes!
post #10 of 102
So true. Where I come from, we call the iPhone a "gateway drug".

A year ago I got my first apple product in the iPhone 3G, aside from some older iPods of course.

Today.
iPhone 3GS 32GB, Macbook Pro 15" late 2009 and an 21.5" iMac in shipment.

Never going back.
post #11 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


The economy is going to deal Apple a serious blow in the consumer market for the next several years and with virtually no footprint in other markets to compensate, we are looking a implosion here if Steve passes away.



Where have you been for the last year?
post #12 of 102
"Apple is going to wish it hedged itself and paid more attention to business and government sales, which can sign off on hundreds of thousands of computers with a single pen stroke."

What nonsense! Apple is likely to be larger than Microsoft within the next 18 months. It doesn't, and never needed to do anything so ridiculous as this. It seeks controlled, sustainable and profitable growth, something your proposed strategy would annihilate in every conceivable way.
post #13 of 102
Quote:
But having just replaced my original iPhone with a new 3Gs, I've sort of put off buying the MBA and rely on my 3Gs when I'm out and about and my iMac's big screen when I'm home. What I really would like now is the new 27" iMac. Decisions, decisions. Apple by making it easy, sure makes it hard sometimes!

Just imagine how many more people would opt not to buy a traditional notebook if they ever release a tablet computer. I think there would be major sales canabilization from the notebook line. They would still sell many notebooks, but I think it is why we have heard a lot of rumors about limited functionality on the tablets, not for any technical reason but to try and balance functionality vs notebook canabilization.

If a mac tablet could run powerpoint/keynote and hook up to external projectors....
post #14 of 102
All in all this analyst seems to 'get it!' Ie. Apples pricing strategy, Margin vs. Market share, etc.

I like the growth numbers. Admittedly, I'm an Apple supporter. To me personally, it means better Apple hardware and software in the near future because Apple has more money to develop their product line.

I was in a meeting yesterday, and this poor guy spent the entire hour trying to get a wifi connection on his HP laptop which had to be plugged into the wall because of low battery, using XP.

I sat there with my 3Gs on feeling, I have to say, a little smug!
post #15 of 102
Never owned a windows machine, never will. I usually buy a Mac and trickle down the older unit for my wife and in turn hers to children and grandkids. I do the same with each unveiling of the iPhone. But Sunday I went and ordered 2 27" iMacs one a core duo and the other the i7 "Naehlem". We have been using dual G4 & G5's with 20" and 23" Cinema displays. The core duo should be delivered Friday and the i7 by the 14th. In all these years and for all these machines, I have never had a H/W failure or had to reinstall the OS (except for some self induced when on OS/6).

Mac's just work and that is the halo generator.
jgb
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post #16 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Just imagine how many more people would opt not to buy a traditional notebook if they ever release a tablet computer. I think there would be major sales canabilization from the notebook line. They would still sell many notebooks, but I think it is why we have heard a lot of rumors about limited functionality on the tablets, not for any technical reason but to try and balance functionality vs notebook canabilization.

If a mac tablet could run powerpoint/keynote and hook up to external projectors....

Agreed, I don't think the tablet will be something like where you can sit and create a Pages document or spreadsheet like you can on a Laptop. I may be wrong about that, though.

But I do see it running keynote and connecting to projectors with may be some ability of say, rearranging slides but not really creating them.

There is overlap the only thing I miss really about my laptop is waking up in the morning and bashing out some quick emails, organizing my 'To Do' lists, checking the news all the while still in bed and drinking my coffee! I for one will wait for the tablet before buying my next laptop!
post #17 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Apple's stratagem of only targeting the rich niche consumer is seriously flawed.

Sure they are making a profit, I can make a profit selling lemonade in front of my house, but it's not going to "change the world" for the better and vulnerable to changes in the larger market.

For instance any crap change on the PC side is reflected on the Mac side, because Apple can't compete unless it uses commodity PC parts.

The economy is going to deal Apple a serious blow in the consumer market for the next several years and with virtually no footprint in other markets to compensate, we are looking a implosion here if Steve passes away.

Apple is going to wish it hedged itself and paid more attention to business and government sales, which can sign off on hundreds of thousands of computers with a single pen stroke.

Do you really think these businesses and governments want the headaches and billions of dollars of data loss using Windows?

You're totally missing the point. And you're way too stuck on your fixed ideas about business and glossy screens.

Apple is doing "end runs" around all these silly entrenched ideas--Windoze huge installed base, the economy, business, IT, blah, blah, blah.

The iPhone/iPod are veritable Trojan Horses, and those coupled with its substantial investment in retail stores is providing the proverbial "open door" to masses of people to finally find out the truth for themselves about the whole Apple universe, a major part of which is still computers.

So many people HATE computers, which is the reason why Microsoft got big. Millions of lemming office drones got hoodwinked into using Windoze, because they didn't care, and because they didn't really have a choice. But that was OK, it wouldn't have made any difference. They somehow learned how to do the very minimum required on the computer so that they didn't get fired. It has been a really captive audience.

So in comes Apple with its iPod. Cool! And then they come out with iTunes for Windoze. Cool! And then they open retail stores--nice stores in nice places where rich people shop, and where not-so-rich people aspire to shop. Cool! And then they come out with the iPhone. Cool!

Well the iPod and iPhone prove to be very nifty products in their own rights. So the Apple stores are crowded with people drooling over their next iPone/iPhone and happen to notice the computers, all of which are on and connected and "touchable."

"Wow. Nice computers. They don't look junky. OS X looks cool. Windoze looks junky. Hmmmmm. You get a lot of stuff included for the price. Hmmmm. Not so bad. Hmmmmm"

Too much attention on consumers? Bah! Just who do you think goes to work in all those offices to make up "business"? Consumers. That's right. Get it now? Duohhhhhhhh.

Daniel Swanson

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Daniel Swanson

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post #18 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquia33 View Post

Never owned a windows machine, never will. I usually buy a Mac and trickle down the older unit for my wife and in turn hers to children and grandkids. I do the same with each unveiling of the iPhone. But Sunday I went and ordered 2 27" iMacs one a core duo and the other the i7 "Naehlem". We have been using dual G4 & G5's with 20" and 23" Cinema displays. The core duo should be delivered Friday and the i7 by the 14th. In all these years and for all these machines, I have never had a H/W failure or had to reinstall the OS (except for some self induced when on OS/6).

Mac's just work and that is the halo generator.

27" iMac Naehlem! I can't figure out if I'm jealous or envious or both! Have fun with them!
post #19 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

You're totally missing the point. And you're way too stuck on your fixed ideas about business and glossy screens.

Apple is doing "end runs" around all these silly entrenched ideas--Windoze huge installed base, the economy, business, IT, blah, blah, blah.

The iPhone/iPod are veritable Trojan Horses, and those coupled with its substantial investment in retail stores is providing the proverbial "open door" to masses of people to finally find out the truth for themselves about the whole Apple universe, a major part of which is still computers.

So many people HATE computers, which is the reason why Microsoft got big. Millions of lemming office drones got hoodwinked into using Windoze, because they didn't care, and because they didn't really have a choice. But that was OK, it wouldn't have made any difference. They somehow learned how to do the very minimum required on the computer so that they didn't get fired. It has been a really captive audience.

So in comes Apple with its iPod. Cool! And then they come out with iTunes for Windoze. Cool! And then they open retail stores--nice stores in nice places where rich people shop, and where not-so-rich people aspire to shop. Cool! And then they come out with the iPhone. Cool!

Well the iPod and iPhone prove to be very nifty products in their own rights. So the Apple stores are crowded with people drooling over their next iPone/iPhone and happen to notice the computers, all of which are on and connected and "touchable."

"Wow. Nice computers. They don't look junky. OS X looks cool. Windoze looks junky. Hmmmmm. You get a lot of stuff included for the price. Hmmmm. Not so bad. Hmmmmm"

Too much attention on consumers? Bah! Just who do you think goes to work in all those offices to make up "business"? Consumers. That's right. Get it now? Duohhhhhhhh.

Well said. I especially like the 'end-run' and 'Trojan horse' comments. Spot on...while so many CEO's have been laying off people that they spent a lot of money on hiring and training in the first place, Apple is going full steam ahead!

Henry Ford raised his workers hourly wage to $5 which was unheard of for its day. He didn't do it because he was a good guy. He did it so his employees could afford to buy his cars. Just a quick example of a fwd thinking CEO like Jobs is as compared to much of the rest that seem to have more foreskin than foresight!
post #20 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

This result can't completely be attributed to the "halo effect". I think the quality of Apple's computers and word of mouth also had something to do with it. People aren't simply buying Macs because they think their iPhones are cool. People are gradually figuring out that Macs don't "suck" as some Winboys liked to froth, and that they are, in fact, really really nice computers. Some people were also likely to have been hugely attracted by the new unibody design of the MacBooks and especially the aluminum MacBook Pros.

Also notice how they cleverly omitted that fact that during this past year Windows Vista was the only alternative and that it did "suck", therefore OSX was a viable alternative. It will be a whole new ballgame this year with the advent of the universally critically acclaimed Windows 7.
post #21 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

This result can't completely be attributed to the "halo effect". I think the quality of Apple's computers and word of mouth also had something to do with it. People aren't simply buying Macs because they think their iPhones are cool. People are gradually figuring out that Macs don't "suck" as some Winboys liked to froth, and that they are, in fact, really really nice computers. Some people were also likely to have been hugely attracted by the new unibody design of the MacBooks and especially the aluminum MacBook Pros.

Nowhere in the report does it say it is.

It is only one of the reasons, significant mind you, but along with those you listed and a number of others as well.
post #22 of 102
Apple needs to focus on other markets than the high end computers, and one size fits all iPhone. They need to grab as much market share as possible while their brand is hot, or the droid phones will evenually catch up, and become cheaper to use. Just like windows 7, Ok, it will take another 4-5 years, but the low end will be back and with a product that is good enough to create serious value. Plus, one phone design for everyone? get real, people want choice. It will take a lot more effort to develop their server OS, and integrate it with their iPhone, but they certainly need to develop a new attitude than we're making so much money, we must be right. It's 1984 all over again, and they better do some things differently this time around or they will be back to sucking air when the competition finally gets it right. And they will sooner or later.
post #23 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Also notice how they cleverly omitted that fact that during this past year Windows Vista was the only alternative and that it did "suck", therefore OSX was a viable alternative. It will be a whole new ballgame this year with the advent of the universally critically acclaimed Windows 7.

It will be interesting to see how 7 does. I have to believe Vista has left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths concerning upgrading to 7. But we shall see.

My brother-in-law is a Windows user and his basic rule is, 'never upgrade the OS. Always wait for the computer to die and then buy a new computer with the new OS already installed.'

Pretty smart but also a little sad.

His HP windows box died after 3 years (pretty good), so he bought an HP laptop. It died in a year. He just replaced it with another HP desktop and bought his daughter a cheap netbook. All from Costco. I said I would give him $300 towards a new MacBook for her. Nope she got a cheap net book! I will keep you posted on how long it lasts!
post #24 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

Apple needs to focus on other markets than the high end computers, and one size fits all iPhone. They need to grab as much market share as possible while their brand is hot, or the droid phones will evenually catch up, and become cheaper to use. Just like windows 7, Ok, it will take another 4-5 years, but the low end will be back and with a product that is good enough to create serious value. Plus, one phone design for everyone? get real, people want choice. It will take a lot more effort to develop their server OS, and integrate it with their iPhone, but they certainly need to develop a new attitude than we're making so much money, we must be right.

The reason for Apple's success over the past decade is because they're NOT doing that.
post #25 of 102
Quote:
It will be a whole new ballgame this year with the advent of the universally critically acclaimed Windows 7.

I was at Supercomputing 09 two weeks ago. About 40-50% of attendees (>10,000) who had notebooks had a mac (surpsingly high number of Airs imo). About 25% of the reamining numbers had netbooks (sorry Win 7). The rest were a mix of Dells and old IBM laptops. Saw MUCH more people in XP than Vista. Only saw one poor soul with 7 and when he tried to present, the cpu recognized the projector and tried to auto resize his presentation but had half of it offscreen... He had to go into edit mode and maximize it and get rid of the ribbon, all in front of 300 waiting eyes.

This is a super tech savy and affluent crowd and they seemed to have no interest in 7.
post #26 of 102
Happily typing away at new iMac i7. Not the iPhone halo effect but the joyous Mac continual halo of fun super efficiency. This computer is so fast, clear, zippy, stunning, pure thrill. Magic mouse wonderful.

Do love the direct finger swishing contact of iPhone. But for serious Net cruising and productive work, this iMac i7 takes the cake.

The abundant software is awesome; the tutorials very helpful and easy; Apple support tremendous. The experience is all marvelous creative juices overflowing.

Worth every penny.
post #27 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

Apple needs to focus on other markets than the high end computers, and one size fits all iPhone. They need to grab as much market share as possible while their brand is hot, or the droid phones will evenually catch up, and become cheaper to use. Just like windows 7, Ok, it will take another 4-5 years, but the low end will be back and with a product that is good enough to create serious value. Plus, one phone design for everyone? get real, people want choice. It will take a lot more effort to develop their server OS, and integrate it with their iPhone, but they certainly need to develop a new attitude than we're making so much money, we must be right. It's 1984 all over again, and they better do some things differently this time around or they will be back to sucking air when the competition finally gets it right. And they will sooner or later.

Perhaps. But how long has iLife been out and I don't see anything comparable on the Windows side. Does the Zune have it right? I don't think so. Is the Droid a good phone, maybe. But it certainly has a long way to go to have anything close to the Apple's 'eco-system' with photos, music, video with the iPhone, desktop, iLife, AppleTV. The 'Halo-effect' this article is talking about is almost a 'life-style' choice way beyond just technology. As a previous poster stated, Apple's Halo effect is their products just work!

Anyway, you make good points, Apple should always be looking for new markets to exploit but not sacrifice Margins for Market share!
post #28 of 102
sooner or later (after Ballmer), the other competitors will start getting their act together. You can see the players lining up against apple with the Droid. all these different models, and then there's RIM. These people are not going to sit still while apple eats their lunch, (although MS just sits there and vibrates creating more heat than light.) But to say we're making tons of money so we must have the formula for success is short sighted. Yes, they developed the eco-system for the iPhone, and some great software for computers. But when my daughter, who has used a Mac for the last 10 years asks for a cheap PC with 7, because she can't afford a mac, you're leaving the masses behind. There's a huge market for a lower cost computer, and by ignoring it, apple leaves the door open for the competition. And if she has to buy another one in a year because this one fails, so what, she can buy two for the price of one apple. I'm an apple fanboy, but they need to address their market share. they are leaving a lot of room between their entry level computer and where PCs come in. if they would close that gap, maybe with the new tablet(w/ integrated iphone), it would create a longer term success.
post #29 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Nowhere in the report does it say it is.

It is only one of the reasons, significant mind you, but along with those you listed and a number of others as well.

Well, it's kind of implied in the article that it's the predominant reason for the recent success of the Mac, and it's the only reason acknowledged in the article.
post #30 of 102
Business and government have had less money to spend, hence the drop there. Apple will never be able to capture the cost-obsessed, as TCO arguments will favor cloud services over the traditional desktop/server where Apple had a chance.

Curious how Apple is fairing with mindshare in publishing (no money to spend) and media.

The new iMac is a fantastic computer and Apple should do very well with them this season. I just wish they had a keyboard offering like the MBP with large multi-touch trackpad. That is what keeps me on the sidelines.
post #31 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

Apple needs to focus on other markets than the high end computers, and one size fits all iPhone. They need to grab as much market share as possible while their brand is hot, or the droid phones will evenually catch up, and become cheaper to use. Just like windows 7, Ok, it will take another 4-5 years, but the low end will be back and with a product that is good enough to create serious value. Plus, one phone design for everyone? get real, people want choice. It will take a lot more effort to develop their server OS, and integrate it with their iPhone, but they certainly need to develop a new attitude than we're making so much money, we must be right. It's 1984 all over again, and they better do some things differently this time around or they will be back to sucking air when the competition finally gets it right. And they will sooner or later.

You guys do not get it, it not about world domination, apple has never been about that, they are about providing a better product and creating value not about creating the cheapest product and putting in everyone's hands. The investment world may not like this because they can not understand how you make more more money without selling more product to more people. Apple is targeting the right people, those who understand value and have disposable income, this is what they did not suffer during this down turn, their target custom is not worried about how to pay the bills this month. This is what the PC guys are hurting, their market is too worried about if they have enough money in the checking account.
post #32 of 102
Once the Mac reaches 25% worldwide market share, Windows will be history in three years. The horrible Windows user experience is only maintained by inertia and ignorance.
post #33 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquia33 View Post

Mac's just work and that is the halo generator.

unfortunately, thats not true. kernel panics are fun i hear. if they just worked, there wouldnt be places like macfixit.

please dont post crap like that.
post #34 of 102
post #35 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Apple's stratagem of only targeting the rich niche consumer is seriously flawed.

Sure they are making a profit, I can make a profit selling lemonade in front of my house, but it's not going to "change the world" for the better and vulnerable to changes in the larger market.

For instance any crap change on the PC side is reflected on the Mac side, because Apple can't compete unless it uses commodity PC parts.

The economy is going to deal Apple a serious blow in the consumer market for the next several years and with virtually no footprint in other markets to compensate, we are looking a implosion here if Steve passes away.

Apple is going to wish it hedged itself and paid more attention to business and government sales, which can sign off on hundreds of thousands of computers with a single pen stroke.

Do you really think these businesses and governments want the headaches and billions of dollars of data loss using Windows?

I'm glad I didn't go to you for investment advice 6 years ago when I bought Apple stock. You take the prize for being the most wrong person on this or any other board.

But maybe you're right this time - Apple is doomed!
post #36 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

Apple needs to focus on other markets than the high end computers, and one size fits all iPhone. They need to grab as much market share as possible while their brand is hot, or the droid phones will evenually catch up, and become cheaper to use. Just like windows 7, Ok, it will take another 4-5 years, but the low end will be back and with a product that is good enough to create serious value. Plus, one phone design for everyone? get real, people want choice. It will take a lot more effort to develop their server OS, and integrate it with their iPhone, but they certainly need to develop a new attitude than we're making so much money, we must be right. It's 1984 all over again, and they better do some things differently this time around or they will be back to sucking air when the competition finally gets it right. And they will sooner or later.

Wow, I sure am glad that YOU'RE not running Apple. You have no idea about Apple's historical mistakes, and you have no idea why Apple is not making those same mistakes this time around. You have no idea why the Droid will never catch up to the iPhone. And what laptop is your daughter going to buy in a year if all those cheap PC-box assembler companies are out of business because of their razor-thin margins? A good place for you to START getting educated would be reading roughlydrafted.com on a regular basis. And maybe you should teach your daughter the value of "you get what you pay for" and supporting companies that actually make valuable worthwhile products that benefit the consumer (and benefit the environment, too).
post #37 of 102
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Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Whatever it is, it's working.
[so many links that dont matter]

1) alot of those websites deal with the iphone/smartphone section
2) alot of those websites are fan sites, so they will always be pro-apple as opposed to neutral (or as close as you can get)

i never said people arent satisfied with their macs, i said they just dont always work like everyone is brainwashed to think. its a piece of tech. there are going to be bugs, there will be system crashes, there will be driver issues, there will be PEBCAK errors.
post #38 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymantle View Post

sooner or later (after Ballmer), the other competitors will start getting their act together. You can see the players lining up against apple with the Droid. all these different models, and then there's RIM. These people are not going to sit still while apple eats their lunch, (although MS just sits there and vibrates creating more heat than light.) But to say we're making tons of money so we must have the formula for success is short sighted. Yes, they developed the eco-system for the iPhone, and some great software for computers. But when my daughter, who has used a Mac for the last 10 years asks for a cheap PC with 7, because she can't afford a mac, you're leaving the masses behind. There's a huge market for a lower cost computer, and by ignoring it, apple leaves the door open for the competition. And if she has to buy another one in a year because this one fails, so what, she can buy two for the price of one apple. I'm an apple fanboy, but they need to address their market share. they are leaving a lot of room between their entry level computer and where PCs come in. if they would close that gap, maybe with the new tablet(w/ integrated iphone), it would create a longer term success.

apple doesn't care about the low end because that market is being taken by Acer, Asus and other Chinese companies who don't mind the low margins. the losers are dell and HP because they used to rule the middle tier of the market which is being destroyed as lower end machines become more powerful and computers last longer and longer.

HP and Dell bought some high end PC makers but it seems to have been a huge mistake in the execution of the merger. now alienware is just another dell.

as industries mature they become vertically integrated. Apple seems to be ahead of the curve on this. people don't care about tinkering anymore, they want a machine that will most likely work, no crapware, and support people that speak english.
post #39 of 102
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post

unfortunately, thats not true. kernel panics are fun i hear. if they just worked, there wouldnt be places like macfixit.

please dont post crap like that.

Yes, Kernel panics are great fun. Except that I've been using Macs nearly every day for the last 15 years and I think I haven't had a single kernel panic since I used a bad USB stick about 3 years ago.

They just work for 99.9% of users. The other 0.1% benefit from places like MacFixit.
post #40 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Apple's stratagem of only targeting the rich niche consumer is seriously flawed.

So flawed that they take the lions share of the retail market in revenue and profit.

Quote:
it's not going to "change the world" for the better and vulnerable to changes in the larger market.

Apple has changed the world of the PC more than Dell or HPs PC departments have.

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Apple can't compete unless it uses commodity PC parts.

This foolish hyperbole really needs to stop. Moving to Intel CPUs did not make every other aspect of the Mac a commodity, off-the-shelf component. The only reason that Windows didnt work on PPC is because MS didnt compile for them. But wait, they eventually did, with the Xbox and Xbox 360, but that is a closed system now, isnt it.

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The economy is going to deal Apple a serious blow in the consumer market for the next several years and with virtually no footprint in other markets to compensate, we are looking a implosion here if Steve passes away.

You mean like what didnt happen this past year when Steve stepped down for 6 months while the economy was in shambles yet Apple broke record sales again and again. People with money tend to have it for being intelligent with their investments not because they live they week-toweek year-after-year and think that less money up front for $400 PC that has to be replaced every year has a TCO lower than a Mac.

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Apple is going to wish it hedged itself and paid more attention to business and goverment sales, which can sign off on hundreds of thousands of computers with a single pen stroke.

How many times do we have to go over the different markets these companies are in. Apple can never do well in govt or enterprise when they are the only the supplier of Mac OS X. Macs are mainly for consumers. If Apple didnt license their OS 12 years ago when they were down to a 5B market cap why do you think they would now when they are poised to over take MS as the largest tech company in the US in a handful of quarters?

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Do you really think these businesses and governments want the headaches and billions of dollars of data loss using Windows?

Then they need to backup. Data loss can occur on any OS. Windows is well designed for the market they want to compete in. Unless Apple is willing to drop the Mac platform, license their OS and then support legacy code and aging HW for a very long time then Apple can never enter the Entrerprise. MS and Apple use two very different business models. One sells an OS, the other makes an OS to sell their PCs. Dont make them out to be one and the same!


Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

'Halo effect' is a nice way of saying 'blood-bath.' This is how some of Apple's competitors view it!



The iPhone gets the pat of the back these days and the iPod got it before, but the real Halo effect seems to be from the Apple Stores and maybe even the increased user base. People can finally play with and test a Mac for the first time with internet access at their local store. There is also something to be said for the switch to Intel which allows for a user to not have to give up Windows if they so desire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Once the Mac reaches 25% worldwide market share, Windows will be history in three years. The horrible Windows user experience is only maintained by inertia and ignorance.

I dont see how that could happen. That is over 5x their current size in a worldwide market share of ever growing PC sales. Even at 25% that is Apple matching HPs market share but taking about 70% of the total revenue for the worlds PC market. Its just going to happen.

On top that, you cant get rid of Windows by selling high-end products. That is not how markets work. For Windows to be hurt it will be an OS, like Chrome OS, that is free and will run on even cheaper HW than most Windows PCs. I think well see see Chrome OS at the low-end, Windows in the middle and still maintaining their enterprise business, and Mac OS X for the higher-end retail.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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