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Psystar agrees to pay Apple $2.7M in settlement - Page 2

post #41 of 88
What was the point of this in the first place . . .
post #42 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robodude View Post

In regards to your assertion, what big company actually stands to benefit from this? The main draw of OS X is that it's tied to Apple hardware. Put it on other hardware and it quickly becomes vulnerable to the same problems as Windows.

I think that's the point. Had Psystar actually made a go of it, Apple's brand actually would have been harmed. Apple's competitors benefit.

At the end of the day, the whole thing just seems really weird. It's hard to believe that they would be so clueless as to risk a great deal of other people's money on such a shaky premise, but it seems almost bizarre to imagine that they had deep pocketed backers that were looking to blindside Apple.
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post #43 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think that's the point. Had Psystar actually made a go of it, Apple's brand actually would have been harmed. Apple's competitors benefit.

At the end of the day, the whole thing just seems really weird. It's hard to believe that they would be so clueless as to risk a great deal of other people's money on such a shaky premise, but it seems almost bizarre to imagine that they had deep pocketed backers that were looking to blindside Apple.

It is bizarre, but we still don't have any concrete reasons to believe that they were supported in their Quixotic mission by anyone.
Please don't be insane.
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post #44 of 88
Hmmm I'd say we do: they have no way to pay the legal fees, yet somehow they have a legal team. That show money is coming from somewhere.
post #45 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

It is bizarre, but we still don't have any concrete reasons to believe that they were supported in their Quixotic mission by anyone.

Ive never believed that they have backers and this doesnt look that way either. If they did, Id think that Apple would have gone after them for more money and to teach them a lesson. At least, i would, but Im a ruthless SOB.
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post #46 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

Hmmm I'd say we do: they have no way to pay the legal fees, yet somehow they have a legal team. That show money is coming from somewhere.

They could have done it with the intention of winning, hence the first team leaving. Or using borrowed money from a source like a bank, not one with a vested interest in seeing Apples business model change.
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post #47 of 88
I'm selling OSX 10.6.2-compatible systems with the following specs:

* 2.26GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
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* 8x double-layer SuperDrive
* NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics
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-Switchy
post #48 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

2.7 Million? If the reports of them only selling under 200,000 units are true, this may be like 80% of their profits.

Reports had them selling about 768 of them.
post #49 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They could have done it with the intention of winning, hence the first team leaving. Or using borrowed money from a source like a bank, not one with a vested interest in seeing Apples business model change.

That's the thing, though-- from everything I've seen, there was simply no chance, none, that they were going to prevail, and any reasonably competent legal advisor would have told them that immediately.

The whole thing would have made sense if it were the scheme of a couple of ambitious 18 year olds working out of a basement, which possibly it was, but it sure did seem to involve a lot of money for being so half-assed.
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post #50 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Ive never believed that they have backers and this doesnt look that way either. If they did, Id think that Apple would have gone after them for more money and to teach them a lesson. At least, i would, but Im a ruthless SOB.

I have an idea that the Apple legal team isn't a bunch of shrinking violets either. The theory that some nefarious plot was at work here always seemed to me to be overblown and without basis. One rule of life always seems to hold -- never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity.
Please don't be insane.
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post #51 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That's the thing, though-- from everything I've seen, there was simply no chance, none, that they were going to prevail, and any reasonably competent legal advisor would have told them that immediately.

The whole thing would have made sense if it were the scheme of a couple of ambitious 18 year olds working out of a basement, which possibly it was, but it sure did seem to involve a lot of money for being so half-assed.

But then I have to ask what wealthy company would have backed such a losing battle. I can’t think of any, not even Michael Dell would do it.

What I think is that they were paid some retainer and were hoping for a settlement at some point to make it go away. To try to make Apple cave by looking like a big bad giant crushing the "entrepreneuring" little guy.

If dumb cases we never get legal representation then we’d never have seen these…

BoA sued in Manhattan for $1,784 billion trillion dollars for poor customer service

Man sues Apple and Sarah Jessica Parker for stealing his iPod idea in 1989

…and pretty much anything from Marshall, TX.
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post #52 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfabulous View Post

That´s the big question? If Psystar´s financial backers makes it possible for them to pay up, all of these trademarks will in some degree be fair game for those who wants to exploit ??? Dell, Microsoft and others could benefit. Or am I wrong?

Was this part of the scheme from day one?

If you think that major manufacturers like Dell, or HP, or anyone else would sell computers with OS X pre-installed without an agreement with Apple you need to see a doctor. Even if, and that's a really big IF, some legal mumbo-jumbo makes it appear to possibly be legal they still wouldn't do it without Apple's willing assistance and agreement. As long as Apple doesn't want to license OS X the only companies doing something like this will be piss-ants like Psystar. And Apple can play the "keep one step ahead of the pirates" game forever. They can break the Rebel EFI with every update. Just ask Palm how their iTunes syncing is going these days.
post #53 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by estolinski View Post

"Even if Psystar could pay damages, the harm to Apple's brand, reputation and goodwill is unquantifiable," Apple said.

Apple who?

I think "Psystar who?" who would be more correct. Although I'm sure you could also find plenty of people who didn't know who/what Apple was even if they knew what an iPod was. And chances are they know what an iPod is in the same sense that they know what a Kleenex is, i.e., as a category of devices not as a particular brand like they actually are. I think you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of people who knew what Psystar is/was.

It's probably unquantifiable because the "harm" is so very close to none.
post #54 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But then I have to ask what wealthy company would have backed such a losing battle. I cant think of any, not even Michael Dell would do it.

What I think is that they were paid some retainer and were hoping for a settlement at some point to make it go away. To try to make Apple cave by looking like a big bad giant crushing the "entrepreneuring" little guy.

If dumb cases we never get legal representation then wed never have seen these
BoA sued in Manhattan for $1,784 billion trillion dollars for poor customer service

Man sues Apple and Sarah Jessica Parker for stealing his iPod idea in 1989

and pretty much anything from Marshall, TX.

Yeah, sure, plenty of frivolous lawsuits, and no dearth of attorneys ready to file them. Still, that kind of thing doesn't generally involve putting up a lot of money, of one's own or one's backers, in a scheme so hair-brained it doesn't pass the laugh test.

Or am I wrong about that? Was there ever a lot of money involved? I guess it doesn't take much capital to put up a website, buy the parts for a PC tower, and install some software. For all I know they were doing it on an order by order basis, given the low sales numbers we've now seen.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #55 of 88
I am kind of hoping that Canon will sue over the use of the name Rebel
Addicted to a Mac since the Mac Plus
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post #56 of 88
Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't this set a bad precedent about the enforceability of EULAs. So, if I buy a copy of OSX and violate some term in it (e.g. put it on a non-Apple branded PC), they can go after me. I don't know if I like the sound of that, not just with Apple but all software companies with these EULA you have to "agree to".

Not that I'm condoning Psystar or anything. Just worried this is a step in the wrong direction even if it is in favor of our beloved Apple this time.

I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

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I own...

1 Android Phone, 2 iPads, 1 Nook reader, 1 Mac Desktop, 1 Windows Laptop, 1 Linux Server, 1 FireTV

 

They all are used regularly and each have their place. Competition is good.

Reply
post #57 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMark View Post

Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't this set a bad precedent about the enforceability of EULAs. So, if I buy a copy of OSX and violate some term in it (e.g. put it on a non-Apple branded PC), they can go after me. I don't know if I like the sound of that, not just with Apple but all software companies with these EULA you have to "agree to".

Not that I'm condoning Psystar or anything. Just worried this is a step in the wrong direction even if it is in favor of our beloved Apple this time.

There's a fair amount of difference between you making a Hackintosh for your own use and trying to sell them as a business....

For one thing, how would it ever come to Apple's attention?
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post #58 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

That is, sadly, funny. ROTFLMAO.

It's also very Photoshopped.
post #59 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimUSCA View Post

It's also very Photoshopped.

Even if it is, Ive seen the show enough to know that some people do mis the easiest questions for whatever reason.
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post #60 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximara View Post

Actually the summery judgment did set a precedence: Apple restriction on hardware is protected under the DMCA. This majorly cripples future endeavors and other companies trying the same thing.

You are both wrong.

No one "set a precedence."

They may have set a precedent however.
post #61 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimUSCA View Post

It's also very Photoshopped.

Real picture of real contestant answering real question incorrectly AFAIK.
post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

2.7 Million? If the reports of them only selling under 200,000 units are true, this may be like 80% of their profits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyb0731 View Post

That's not 80% of their profits, that's more than the revenue they took in period

Hmmm let's see. $2,700,000 divided by 200,000 is $13.5 revenue per computer sold... on average. Hell, how did they ever expect to be profitable selling them so cheap?

Basic arithmetic tells me Sheffs comment is more likely the accurate assessment... closer to reality. DOH!
post #63 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker275 View Post

Hmmm let's see. $2,700,000 divided by 200,000 is $13.5 revenue per computer sold... on average. Hell, how did they ever expect to be profitable selling them so cheap?

Basic arithmetic tells me Sheffs comment is more likely the truth. DOH!

Read the other replies about how many they have actually sold and then do the math.
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post #64 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker275 View Post

Hmmm let's see. $2,700,000 divided by 200,000 is $13.5 revenue per computer sold... on average. Hell, how did they ever expect to be profitable selling them so cheap?

Basic arithmetic tells me Sheffs comment is more likely the accurate assessment... closer to reality. DOH!


Well now I'm reading a post that says they sold 768 units. WTF?!?! I guess that will teach me for believing something I read on the internet....
post #65 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker275 View Post

Well now I'm reading a post that says they sold 768 units. WTF?!?! I guess that will teach me for believing something I read on the internet....

Even at 200k units if we figure out net profit per actual unit sold, minus legal fees and operation costs, for a start up trying to make a name and trying to convince potential investors that they can move a lot of product, there really is no way they have this kind of money from sales.
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post #66 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

For one thing, how would it ever come to Apple's attention?

Steve is having his RDF retuned for just this purpose.
Please don't be insane.
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post #67 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post

17 months, millions of dollars in damages and attorney fees - all just to figure out what any grade schooler with common sense could tell you? Putting someone else's lunch in your own lunchbox doesn't change the fact that you stole someone's lunch.

haha this is a great comment.

Its so true to.. what could they have possibly expected to happen? Their business is literally based around pirating and hacking.
post #68 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMark View Post

Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't this set a bad precedent about the enforceability of EULAs. So, if I buy a copy of OSX and violate some term in it (e.g. put it on a non-Apple branded PC), they can go after me. I don't know if I like the sound of that, not just with Apple but all software companies with these EULA you have to "agree to".

Not that I'm condoning Psystar or anything. Just worried this is a step in the wrong direction even if it is in favor of our beloved Apple this time.

I dunno.. If I had a company, I wouldn't mind people agreeing to something saying they couldn't steal my work..
post #69 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post

haha this is a great comment.

Its so true to.. what could they have possibly expected to happen? Their business is literally based around pirating and hacking.

I hadnt seen c4rlobs comment. That is great. I may have to use that.
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post #70 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Steve is having his RDF retuned for just this purpose.

Interesting. Sort of like echolocation?

Holy shit, Steve's a dolphin.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #71 of 88
Here's a thought: What if the mystery backer is actually Apple? Then all the weird gyrations Psystar did in the courts makes a bit more sense. Now Apple has legal backing for its EULA.

...and maybe I need to put my tin-foil hat back on.
post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by zener42 View Post

Here's a thought: What if the mystery backer is actually Apple? Then all the weird gyrations Psystar did in the courts makes a bit more sense. Now Apple has legal backing for its EULA.

...and maybe I need to put my tin-foil hat back on.

Its more likely than it being Microsoft, as some of have theorized since Apple licensing OS X would be the worst thing for MS Windows profits.
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post #73 of 88
Dear Mr. Gates . I am the CEO of Psystar and have been in need of some assistance. I am currently going to be unemployed . Since you dislike Apple (Steve ) so much I was wondering if you could hire a couple hundred attorneys to help me with the current legal issues with Apple (steve). I know that as a team we can beat apple and I can continue my pathetic attemp at thinking I can sell a product that I stole from some one else that was giving it away. In addition I also promise to start selling your windows at an outrageous price and make my machines cheaper to sell more of my product. I would also ask if you would be willing to fund my cause as I venture over to China to set up my Company there so I can sell my Rebel EFI to stupid people. We can make a killing. Thank you for your time and hope to talk to you soon. Have a great day. Really I mean it. OK?

Ruling in favor of Apple. Psystar "thank you sir may I have another" Pay up Psystar. "Thank you sir I cannot give another. I noticed that my companies name is a mispel. Missppell, mississippi spel. Potatoe, Potatto, Pottatoe, Potato.
An Apple man since 1977
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post #74 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Interesting. Sort of like echolocation?

Holy shit, Steve's a dolphin.

Even better. A neutrino blast projected directly from Steve's mind to your desktop will cause your Hackintosh to implode.

That's the real reason why he spent all that time in the hospital. Now it can be told!
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post #75 of 88
Steve responds to demands for a midrange desktop, multitasking on the iPhone, and matte screens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA
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post #76 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

It shows that there isn't that much of a market for PCs running MacOS without Apple's consent.

I think the problem is that people aren't willing to buy a whole new computer from a relatively unknown and untrusted distributor solely for the purpose of running OS X unreliably. Psystar seems to have discovered this and it's why they are now pushing their Rebel EFI, which doesn't require people to buy whole new computers.

Consumers just want the best value for money and typically that means the newest, fastest, most features for the least amount of money. The latest hardware is Core i7 and you can buy a PC with it for around $1100 whereas a Core i7 iMac is $2200.

Now the iMac has a 27" LED backlit IPS screen, which is worth the money but then it comes down to choice. The consumer may not need/want a glossy 27" IPS but is happy with a 22" IPS from Dell for $300. Still an $800 saving over an iMac. But, their film course at university may require Final Cut Studio. Rebel EFI will give them the best value if it's $50-100 or so.

The fine Psystar has rightly been landed with could wipe them out entirely but it might be pocket change to their backers and at the same time, it's given them a lot of publicity. EFI-X already lets you boot OS X but few people know about it or where to get it. If Psystar had only ever had the EFI chip, they'd be the same. I don't see how Apple can prevent the sale of Rebel EFI so Psystar might live on and with a huge amount of people using netbooks, they might turn a decent profit.
post #77 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarquisMark View Post

Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't this set a bad precedent about the enforceability of EULAs. So, if I buy a copy of OSX and violate some term in it (e.g. put it on a non-Apple branded PC), they can go after me. I don't know if I like the sound of that, not just with Apple but all software companies with these EULA you have to "agree to".

Not that I'm condoning Psystar or anything. Just worried this is a step in the wrong direction even if it is in favor of our beloved Apple this time.

Newflash: the precedent regarding the enforceability of EULAs backed by DMCA code was set by Blizzard vs MDY Industries well over a year ago.

Furthermore this is not what either case dictated. Both cases involved people trying to profit from their violations of the EULA and violating the DMCA to do it.

Neither case said that a company had the right to "go after you" if you violate the EULA under First sale doctrine but they have the right to cut off or refuse to provide any service they would provide to someone who didn't violated the EULA.
post #78 of 88
Hurry up - go bankrupt, stiff apple & attorneys on the money, then release your bootloader open source so the hackers can continue with even more hackintoshes for free
post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I think the problem is that people aren't willing to buy a whole new computer from a relatively unknown and untrusted distributor solely for the purpose of running OS X unreliably. Psystar seems to have discovered this and it's why they are now pushing their Rebel EFI, which doesn't require people to buy whole new computers.

Consumers just want the best value for money and typically that means the newest, fastest, most features for the least amount of money. The latest hardware is Core i7 and you can buy a PC with it for around $1100 whereas a Core i7 iMac is $2200.

Now the iMac has a 27" LED backlit IPS screen, which is worth the money but then it comes down to choice. The consumer may not need/want a glossy 27" IPS but is happy with a 22" IPS from Dell for $300.

So they get a Macmini at $600 sheesh. I would hardly trust anything important to something that might as well been put together by the computer equivalent of Dr. Victor Frankenstein. (Hackintosh boots up) "It's Alive." (Rolling beach ball of death) "Ok, it needs work."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Still an $800 saving over an iMac. But, their film course at university may require Final Cut Studio. Rebel EFI will give them the best value if it's $50-100 or so.

Assuming they have a configuration that Rebel EFI supports. Also there are claims that Rebel EFI is an outright copy of software that is free. Wonderful. Why support these clowns in any manner?
post #80 of 88
So does this mean EULA's are actually valid then?

If so this is great news for developers (like me), and fairly awful for the public. What other industry is there where you can basically force people to tick a box to say they agree that if the product doesn't work, destroys there system etc you cant get your money back or claim compensation.

Back on topic, you could always tell it was going to end this way. Shame though as in the end its Apples customers that loose out. No competition for Apple means they can continue to overcharge for RAM, build machines lacking in USB ports and generally just do whatever they want to save money.
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