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'Complicated' Verizon iPhone deal said to be unlikely in 2010 - Page 2

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

if t-mobile or sprint got the iphone it would absolutely crush not only Verizon (which ive had for years before switching to AT&T) but AT&T as well. Cheaper prices with very good coverage you cant beat, but T-Mo is lacking in its 3G areas thus far, although something like this would really help expand their user base.

I dont see it crushing AT&T or Verizon. Most people are happy with their AT&T iPhone in their area and T-Mo has its fair share of network coverage issues and is still GSM-based, which is part of the reason for many of the complaints over Verizon. Id est, the voice quality and soft v. hard handoffs. These issues jut carry over to T-Mo.

Still, having two carriers will help many that simply wont or cant move to AT&T from Verizon, but I think that Sprint will be the most hurt by the iPhone moving to T-Mo. The only caveat is that T-Mo may not offer the same rates for the iPhone as they do their other plans.
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post #42 of 83
That would be the rub. The iPhone would be far more expensive for Sprint/T-Mo than their other phones. Neither carrier would be able to afford selling the iPhone service as low as it can with its other phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

if t-mobile or sprint got the iphone it would absolutely crush not only Verizon (which ive had for years before switching to AT&T) but AT&T as well. Cheaper prices with very good coverage you cant beat, but T-Mo is lacking in its 3G areas thus far, although something like this would really help expand their user base. I do fear though that if it does rollout to T-Mo without a robust 3G network like the others it will bring T-Mo's reputation down like it has done to AT&T.
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Me too. Being a T-Mo user for six years.

Another point you can add to your list of what T-Mo offers... I see you were passionate enough regarding T-Mobile, that you registered in order to make your first post here on AI, as opposed to being a casual guest. I hope to read more.

Same here. T-mo could really use the boost from iPhone.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #44 of 83
I love my iPhone on T-Mobile. Others have addressed the reasons why T-Mobile is a good fit, but here's another point analysts seem to keep missing.

T-Mobile has, kind of suddenly, gotten REALLY aggressive about ramping up their 3G coverage and speeds. All of a sudden, a few months back, they began upgrading 3G where it exists to leapfrog past everyone else's speeds, up to 21 Mbps, and rolling 3G out in more areas where it didn't have it before. The switch on the 21 hasn't been turned on yet, but they're aggressively rolling out the infrastructure now.

The question is . . . why? Who could possibly have the kind of weight and influence to make them suddenly start doing this, let alone leapfrogging past everyone else's 3G speeds? Who would give them an incentive to take upon such an expensive initiative?

Hmmm. Here's my wild guess: An incredibly annoyed Apple, sick and tired of AT&T's lame-ass 3G network making them look bad. And Apple's got the influence and weight to tell somebody like a T-Mobile that if they want the iPhone, given that they're the fourth-place carrier in the nation, they'll have to make some big moves to show they want it, and to make them feel safe that it won't be a repeat of the AT&T 3G fiasco.

Seems plain as day to me, frankly.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardk32 View Post

Though Apple and Verizon may both focus on "customer control", their execution couldn't be further apart. Verizon's "control" ignores the customer for it's own gain, while Apple's makes the customer experience tantamount.
Example - Verizon's version of the Motorola RAZR. Verizon insisted on shoehorning their interface into the phone, removing or crippling existing features because they might reduce demand for Verizon-controlled services that they could bill extra for.

Standardized UI has its advantages --- especially for a multicultural population with a lot of people not really proficient in English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

I still find it hard to believe that Apple would go with Verizon with their current anti-global technology. I really would be surprised if they did, because it would mean that Apple has become a different company in my eyes.

This is Apple we are talking about --- for 20 years they used a CPU that nobody used when everyone else used the Intel CPU. This is a company that said think different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Apple has no interest in expanding it's costs to satisfy the CMDA market--a legacy market.

It's not a lot of money, Apple already enjoys 50% profit margin on the iphone. Creating a different iphone would drop that to what --- 45% profit margin (which is 4x as much as Nokia has).

Quote:
Originally Posted by burlesona View Post

3. International service

Because T-Mobile is a branch of Germany's Deutsche Telekom, T-Mobile exists all over Europe. I lived in Italy for a while several years ago, and this connection was very helpful for me. If you travel to Europe a lot it's nice to be able to find your cell phone provider overseas.

In promoting iPhone as something for saavy execs I could see T-Mobile doing even more to unify their coverage so that there was no longer a distinction between calls on T-Mobiles various national networks. I don't know about technical limitations to this, but T-Mobile already carries the iPhone around Europe, so it can't be that big of an obstacle.

They are going to sell you a simlocked iphone and when you go to Germany, they are going to charge you thousands of dollars in roaming charges.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonSense View Post

T-Mobile has, kind of suddenly, gotten REALLY aggressive about ramping up their 3G coverage and speeds. All of a sudden, a few months back, they began upgrading 3G where it exists to leapfrog past everyone else's speeds, up to 21 Mbps, and rolling 3G out in more areas where it didn't have it before. The switch on the 21 hasn't been turned on yet, but they're aggressively rolling out the infrastructure now.

The question is . . . why? Who could possibly have the kind of weight and influence to make them suddenly start doing this, let alone leapfrogging past everyone else's 3G speeds? Who would give them an incentive to take upon such an expensive initiative?

Don't get fooled by these theoretical max download speed claims. It's not an expensive initiative at all --- T-Mobile was late in their 3G deployment that everyone else. Which means that they bought cell gears that have HSPA+ already built-in --- that only requires a firmware upgrade to their software.

As long as the German parent is not allowing T-Mobile USA to spend the requisite money to have a real national network --- T-Mobile USA will remain to be a poor network coverage wise. And the German parent is trying to find American partners to help to pay the cost of the build-out.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thre...seek_us_p.html

Until they can find a partner in the US, or the German parent changes their mind to pay for the network build-out themselves --- T-Mobile will remain to be a poor network coverage wise.
post #46 of 83
I love the iPhone. I love VZW. Nary the twain shall meet. I think VZW just shot themselves in the foot.
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post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I was gonna say dont make direct personal attacks, but its too late.

Yeah, like wow.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

This is Apple we are talking about --- for 20 years they used a CPU that nobody used when everyone else used the Intel CPU. This is a company that said think different.

That's not quite true, at the start of the AIM alliance, one could easily get workstations from any one of half a dozen CPU architectures, now it's a lot harder and relatively a lot more expensive than it used to be. There were other companies that used PPC, BeOS for one, heck, Microsoft is using a PPC chip right now.
post #49 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Microsoft is using a PPC chip right now.

I believe its 3 PPC per Xbox 360.
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post #50 of 83
Analyst seems to have several poor ideas and misconceptions.

There's no way that Apple would create a CDMA version of the phone for Sprint. So that part of the article doesn't make sense. Sprint stinks as a carrier, is losing share and is the most expensive because they try to tie the latest smart phones to their most expensive everything plans to raise their ARPU. Company going down the tubes unless T-Mobile buys them out.

Saying that Verizon and Apple don't agree because Verizon wants control also doesn't match recent events. The Google market is available on android phones on Verizon. Verizon hasn't neutered the phones to their VCast either. So that rational doesn't make sense either.

Apple may have a tough time competing against Android phones unless they get on Verizon. And even then Android is quickly catching up to the iPhone and passing in some ways. Next years iPhone better have lots of software improvements.
post #51 of 83
Someone asked this exec if the iPhone was coming, and he said it was and that everyone should just be patient.
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex3917 View Post

Someone asked this exec if the iPhone was coming, and he said it was and that everyone should just be patient.

Can you link to any video, transcripts or articles stating this? I'd think this kind of news would get some major play in the media if it were true.
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post #53 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Do you link to any video, transcripts or articles stating this? I'd think this kind of news would get some major play in the media.

Exactly. Spill it or else is never happened.
post #54 of 83
apple has gotten a lot of flack over ATT's service and customer service. why would they submit to that with another company

those qualcomm rumors could be true, but talking about the wrong device. what if those dual chips are for something not an iphone that might be running the same OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

Exactly. Apple will have no choice but to make a CDMA compatible phone for Verizon since their LTE rollout isn't going to be 100% complete until 2013.

Apple is under no legal obligation to make a phone that works on Verizon's network. so they can always make that choice and never touch CDMA in the iphone. when and if Verizon can support whatever Apple does put in the phones, bully for them. until then, too bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Yes...but for any carrier that supports the iPhone, I would guess that customer satisfaction would go down. Too much data....too little bandwidth.

bandwidth is one of the key reasons why official unlocking is a good thing for the iphone. some areas have crap ATT coverage but fairly decent T-Mobile or even some of the 'no name' carriers. so why not let the phone go to who can cover it. spreading out the service could also help with bottlenecks
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardk32 View Post

Though Apple and Verizon may both focus on "customer control", their execution couldn't be further apart. Verizon's "control" ignores the customer for it's own gain, while Apple's makes the customer experience tantamount.

I was going to say the same thing. While they both want to do the app store, and control the UI, and the music they sell, VZN craps all over the phones it sells, nobody buys music or apps from VZN, while with Apple, it's the other way around, everything they do turns into a huge success.

That's of course because Apple tries and often succeeds to make money by offering the best product out there. I don't know what VZNs agenda is with its own control freakery - seems like leafy dreams of selling everything and the kitchen sink to its customers, milk them for all it's worth, basically. What's clear is that they don't put the customer first.

People go with VZN because it has the best coverage, and despite the crap that Verizon tries to sell them.

All in all I think a CDMA iPhone is unlikely. It would complicate Apple's operations so VZN would probably have to come begging for it - and that's not going to happen. They'd much rather go all out on the Blackberry and Android phones.
post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Apple isn't going to be on Verizon. Get used to it. They will more rapidly be on T-Mobile US than Verizon.

As LTE rollout commences, AT&T will see it's growth continue while Verizon will continue to see a net loss in subscribers.

If you believe that Verizon won't get the iPhone you fooling your self. In addition Verizon is ahead of AT&T when it comes to LTE deployment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

Verizon doesn't run the app store for Droid, why would this issue be a problem for carrying the iPhone.

Right on plus Verizon has no problem with Google Voice which I use for text messaging so I don't pay a cent for texting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adisor19 View Post

Keep dreaming. A CDMA iPhone will never come. T-Mo could potentially get it next year or the year after as the 1700Mhz addition is a piece of cake.

Adi

You can keep dreaming but you'll wake up once you see Verizon with the iPhone. WIth the Qualcomm chip that does all phone protocols including CDMA and LTE Apple can make one phone that covers all phone companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Agreed. Verizon Customer Service is POS 101.

Everyone has their opinion about their carrier. I've never has a problem with Verizon Customer Service in the last 16 years that was not taken care of quite quickly.
post #57 of 83
I believe Verizon would be kind of pointless in a way.
It has it's own VCast, Apple has iTunes.
Verizon is using their "AT&T lacks 3G" ads while using an iPhone like phone.(and some with real iPhones in it.)
And It will make the competition go baisically slow and no more fun?..

I would probably see Apple with Sprint or T-Mobile.
Sprint is already on 4G network. So there goes an equal shot if Apple wants to move in with 4G quickly. and T-mobile, is just.. idk? plain old T-mobile :/

AT&T- Has poor 3G coverage and expensive iPhone plan.
Verizon- Hating AT&T and the fact that they have the iPhone.
Sprint- On 4G and and not hating as much as Verizon.
T-Mobile- t-mobile is just out in it's own little world out there somewhere.

Apple is just better off making their own cellular carrier.
post #58 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Apple has no interest in expanding it's costs to satisfy the CMDA market--a legacy market.

It does mean costs but it also means a lot of upside.

1) Apple expands it's addressable market in the US from 29% to potentially 100%

2) It's a lot of revenue currently on the table. If Apples sells to just 1% of the 89M Verizon customers that is 890,000 units. Say Apple makes $400 per unit. That's $356M in rev, just for 1%. You think it costs more than $10M to take the current iPhone and roll a CDMA version? I don't. That is quite an upside.

3) Right now not being on other carriers sends PR, marketing and development dollars to the competition. There is no reason for that.

4) What does legacy mean anyway? At the end of the day ALL technologies are legacy - at least they are someday. USB 2.0, legacy. Firewire, legacy. Ethernet, legacy. It's all going to be legacy at some point.

When Apple shipped the original iPhone, EDGE was legacy and everyone knew it. A year later it was replaced. Was it better to ship a legacy protocol but enter the market? I would say yes. Same situation here.

Anyway, so what, that a CDMA phone would only be a hot item for a few years? What cell phone is interesting for more than that? They sell the CDMA for 2-3 years, then sell LTE. That is normal business.

Would a CDMA phone for Verizon and Sprint be a world beating phone? No.
Would it be the next gen solution for iPhone? No.
Would it be super innovative? No.

It would however meet a market need and demand that is real. That should be enough for any rational company. Will Apple do this? Probably not but that does not mean that Apple is acting in its own best interest in this case.

Just cutting off some of the oxygen to Android and BB would make the development cost worth it...
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post

Why would I leave Sprint? What's wrong with Sprint? NOTHING. That's what.

my first cell phone was a sprint cell phone, and it was the crappiest phone for service in NYC and the customer service was the WORST!!! not to mention that they would over bill every time and you couldn't get a credit even if u KILLED someone (well, that is if/when your were ever able to get someone that spoke english on the phone) and that was in the late 90's so then i switched to NEXTEL because of the push to talk feature and my friends who had NEXTel's but then , SPRINT swallowed up NEXTEL and I was back to where i hated being with SPRINT again with the billing/lousy customer service and such...

then I switched to ATT and got the first iPhone like 2 years ago-- and i would never give up my iphone- and SPRINT would drop you as a customer if you called and complained to them about your service or phone (lQQK it up on google, its there) those DUMBASSes would actually cancel your service or drop you because you called them to complain !!???? WTF is that??? I hope that APPLE NEVER GOES to SPRINT and I HOPE SPRINT JUST DIES AND GOES UNDER AND BANKRUPT they deserve everything they get ... those fools... anyway i just had to tell u that since u asked....
post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie View Post

It does mean costs but it also means a lot of upside.

1) Apple expands it's addressable market in the US from 29% to potentially 100%

2) It's a lot of revenue currently on the table. If Apples sells to just 1% of the 89M Verizon customers that is 890,000 units. Say Apple makes $400 per unit. That's $356M in rev, just for 1%. You think it costs more than $10M to take the current iPhone and roll a CDMA version? I don't. That is quite an upside.

There is no doubt that it would be profitable for Apple, but so would a lot of things Apple could do, consumers want them to do, but they simply wont do.

There are some logistical issues with going with a CDMA phone. Besides needing to stock a separate device for Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T/T-Mobile in their stores for each capacity, they also would likely have to have some sort of rep from those companies to help activate the phones. On top of that, we have customer confusion to deal with when it comes different iPhones having different capabilities despite being mostly the same. Does Apple make them look different to make it obvious there are differences or go with the same case design. If you go with a different case design you have an issue with 3rd-party cases.

Again, it would be profitable but that doesnt seem like something Apple would do. If its not a simple streamlined process then its not something Apple seems to want to do. So the other option is the hybrid world-mode chip from Qualcomm, but even if Apple gets the excessive 5.7% per-unit of all revenue dropped from Qualcomm we have to consider the chip size and power consumption.

The upside is that Apple can then sell the iPhone to the rest of the world that is on CDMA/CDMA2000 network. The downside is that most of them are pretty poor and have a low population. Still, theyd surely make money, but theyd make money from the mythical xMac or a netbook, too, but I dont expect either of those.

Perhaps most importantly and oft overlooked is that the iPhone is growing at a phenomenal rate already. Supply has been constrained leaving some countries hurting well after the launch. The only problem at this time is that the iPhone on AT&T is so successful and so useful for data that its taxing their network excessively. Adding the 1700MHz Band and going with their Deutsche Telekom partners US company, T-Mobile, would help with that saturation issue while also avoiding all the logistical issues previous mentioned. Its the only move that makes sense to me.
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post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is no doubt that it would be profitable for Apple, but so would a lot of things Apple could do, consumers want them to do, but they simply wont do.

There are some logistical issues with going with a CDMA phone. Besides needing to stock a separate device for Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T/T-Mobile in their stores for each capacity, they also would likely have to have some sort of rep from those companies to help activate the phones. On top of that, we have customer confusion to deal with when it comes different iPhones having different capabilities despite being mostly the same. Does Apple make them look different to make it obvious there are differences or go with the same case design. If you go with a different case design you have an issue with 3rd-party cases.

Again, it would be profitable but that doesnt seem like something Apple would do. If its not a simple streamlined process then its not something Apple seems to want to do. So the other option is the hybrid world-mode chip from Qualcomm, but even if Apple gets the excessive 5.7% per-unit of all revenue dropped from Qualcomm we have to consider the chip size and power consumption.

The upside is that Apple can then sell the iPhone to the rest of the world that is on CDMA/CDMA2000 network. The downside is that most of them are pretty poor and have a low population. Still, theyd surely make money, but theyd make money from the mythical xMac or a netbook, too, but I dont expect either of those.

Perhaps most importantly and oft overlooked is that the iPhone is growing at a phenomenal rate already. Supply has been constrained leaving some countries hurting well after the launch. The only problem at this time is that the iPhone on AT&T is so successful and so useful for data that its taxing their network excessively. Adding the 1700MHz Band and going with their Deutsche Telekom partners US company, T-Mobile, would help with that saturation issue while also avoiding all the logistical issues previous mentioned. Its the only move that makes sense to me.

This is the same company that sells rainbow color ipods. Having a bunch of color ipods, all with a different SKU and inventory --- ain't going to be much of a problem.

The vast majority of the apps are games --- yet the biggest difference between the current 2 models (3G and 3GS) is the hardware accel 3D graphics. That is a lot of consumer confusion already as well.

The biggest CDMA carriers are still in US, Canada, Japan and S Korea --- and these are not poor countries.

The past phenomenal growth rate creates expectations that the growth will continue --- and that creates pressures on the Apple stock price. Just rumors about t-mobile USA getting the next iphone instead of Verizon --- caused a $5 drop in Apple share price.
post #62 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

This is the same company that sells rainbow color ipods. Having a bunch of color ipods, all with a different SKU and inventory --- ain't going to be much of a problem.

I addressed this already. Besides the differences being easily discernable by those with vision, even many who are colour blind, this is marketing technique for a relatively inexpensive product for a saturated market. The iPhone is not saturated, it's not relatively inexpensive and having different internal HW with pros and cons is not the same as having a colour to choose from. Please don't suggest that Apple offer a different colour for each carrier.

Quote:
The vast majority of the apps are games --- yet the biggest difference between the current 2 models (3G and 3GS) is the hardware accel 3D graphics. That is a lot of consumer confusion already as well.

You say that even an expected year-over-year increase in basic HW like the CPU, RAM, and GPU has created consumer confusion yet your grande plan is to offer a parallel device that has considerably more confusing technological aspects to it than the obvious "each year the HW gets better and faster." That doesn't strike you as illogical?

Quote:
The biggest CDMA carriers are still in US, Canada, Japan and S Korea --- and these are not poor countries.

Let' see we have ~30M on au/KDDI in Japan while all the other major players accounting for ~80M are on 3GSM. On tip of that au/KDDI is planning LTE right along with NTT DoCoMo. This will be complete long before Verizon. I know this because Tyler knows this.

Then there is Kore. With CDMA as 2G across the board but only LG is supporting CDMA2000 for 3G while the others have 3GSM. LG only has ~8M subs. Not exactly a lot market.

Finally, we have Canada. Oh, Canada! The iPhone is already on the largest network and the next two largest accounting for a mere 13M subs has HSPA and LTE in the works. that leaves ~1M subs left on a couple very small carriers. Again, not a problem. The only really market for a CDMA iPhone is the US and ee both know that seems unlikely, yet we both wish it would happen (though for very different reasons).

Quote:
The past phenomenal growth rate creates expectations that the growth will continue --- and that creates pressures on the Apple stock price. Just rumors about t-mobile USA getting the next iphone instead of Verizon --- caused a $5 drop in Apple share price.

No, it didn't. If there has ever been an accuate use of the adage "not seeimg the forest for te trees" it would be people associating a drop in a stock price from a single piece of news thr few care about without looking at the entire market as a whole.
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post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I addressed this already. Besides the differences being easily discernable by those with vision, even many who are colour blind, this is marketing technique for a relatively inexpensive product for a saturated market. The iPhone is not saturated, it's not relatively inexpensive and having different internal HW with pros and cons is not the same as having a colour to choose from. Please don't suggest that Apple offer a different colour for each carrier.

You say that even an expected year-over-year increase in basic HW like the CPU, RAM, and GPU has created consumer confusion yet your grande plan is to offer a parallel device that has considerably more confusing technological aspects to it than the obvious "each year the HW gets better and faster." That doesn't strike you as illogical?

Let' see we have ~30M on au/KDDI in Japan while all the other major players accounting for ~80M are on 3GSM. On tip of that au/KDDI is planning LTE right along with NTT DoCoMo. This will be complete long before Verizon. I know this because Tyler knows this.

Then there is Kore. With CDMA as 2G across the board but only LG is supporting CDMA2000 for 3G while the others have 3GSM. LG only has ~8M subs. Not exactly a lot market.

Finally, we have Canada. Oh, Canada! The iPhone is already on the largest network and the next two largest accounting for a mere 13M subs has HSPA and LTE in the works. that leaves ~1M subs left on a couple very small carriers. Again, not a problem. The only really market for a CDMA iPhone is the US and ee both know that seems unlikely, yet we both wish it would happen (though for very different reasons).

No, it didn't. If there has ever been an accuate use of the adage "not seeimg the forest for te trees" it would be people associating a drop in a stock price from a single piece of news thr few care about without looking at the entire market as a whole.

I never claim that each carrier gets to sell a different colour iphone. I am saying that for Apple to enjoy a 50% gross profit margin on the iphone --- selling a different model would only drop that profit margin very slightly.

I am saying that if I accept your theory ---- then consumers are already facing massive confusion about the different capabilities of the 2 iphone models that are being sold. Then Apple should have stop the selling of 3G iphone immediately and sell only the 3GS model.

As I stated repeatedly in other threads, the majority of SK Telecom and KTF subscribers are still using ev-do phones. So if you look at Korea as a whole, more than 2/3 of their population is still on the ev-do network.

This is how the market works --- you can a professional sports team with god awful financials, guess what? A bigger idiot will buy it from you at an even insane price in 5 years.
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is no doubt that it would be profitable for Apple.

Uh, ok. So let's just admit then that all that follows is not really a business justification....

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There are some logistical issues with going with a CDMA phone. Besides needing to stock a separate device for Sprint, Verizon, and AT&T/T-Mobile in their stores for each capacity, they also would likely have to have some sort of rep from those companies to help activate the phones.

Yawn. Really? A few more SKU's. Walk into a BestBuy sometime and look at the phones they stock. I kinda think Apple is up to the complexity of a few more devices. They can just have the logo of the carrier on the box. They can just carry the most popular version for the other carriers - 16 gb black? So 3 more SKU to triple the US addressable market.

And not sure why they'd need any extra reps in the stores. You just tell them your carrier and they pull the right unit and its just a slightly different workflow, if that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

On top of that, we have customer confusion to deal with when it comes different iPhones having different capabilities despite being mostly the same. Does Apple make them look different to make it obvious there are differences or go with the same case design. If you go with a different case design you have an issue with 3rd-party cases.

Seriously, what are you talking about? Confusion over what? The only difference is that the CDMA phone would not be able to make calls and access data at the same time. This is not an issue for 99% of people and anyone who cares knows the issue. CDMA can't work overseas as well but everyone on Verizon knows their phones don't work abroad. Big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Again, it would be profitable but that doesnt seem like something Apple would do. If its not a simple streamlined process then its not something Apple seems to want to do. So the other option is the hybrid world-mode chip from Qualcomm, but even if Apple gets the excessive 5.7% per-unit of all revenue dropped from Qualcomm we have to consider the chip size and power consumption.

Honestly, I think Apple just needs to grow up. So its not so simple and neat - it makes the product available to a ton more people. That matters. So don't have Jobs announce it. Just do it and get it in Verizon stores and the other carriers too, and we can move on from this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Perhaps most importantly and oft overlooked is that the iPhone is growing at a phenomenal rate already. Supply has been constrained leaving some countries hurting well after the launch. The only problem at this time is that the iPhone on AT&T is so successful and so useful for data that its taxing their network excessively. Adding the 1700MHz Band and going with their Deutsche Telekom partners US company, T-Mobile, would help with that saturation issue while also avoiding all the logistical issues previous mentioned. Its the only move that makes sense to me.

T-Mobile seems like a pretty dinky network too. I don't think they could handle the iPhone that well either. Even Verizon will have trouble but at least then we'd have a fair playing field.
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I never claim that each carrier gets to sell a different colour iphone. I am saying that for Apple to enjoy a 50% gross profit margin on the iphone --- selling a different model would only drop that profit margin very slightly.

I am saying that if I accept your theory ---- then consumers are already facing massive confusion about the different capabilities of the 2 iphone models that are being sold. Then Apple should have stop the selling of 3G iphone immediately and sell only the 3GS model.

As I stated repeatedly in other threads, the majority of SK Telecom and KTF subscribers are still using ev-do phones. So if you look at Korea as a whole, more than 2/3 of their population is still on the ev-do network.

This is how the market works --- you can a professional sports team with god awful financials, guess what? A bigger idiot will buy it from you at an even insane price in 5 years.

Verizon will never agree to the pricing model of AT&T so get that idea out of your head.
post #66 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Verizon will never agree to the pricing model of AT&T so get that idea out of your head.

Yes, that's the major issue between the two companies.

All the othr issues --- like a CDMA variant, like an extra SKU,... --- very minor issues.
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

All the othr issues --- like a CDMA variant, like an extra SKU,... --- very minor issues.

You are still reading logistical issues between carrying phones for disparate networks with pros and cons as simply a minor SKU issue? This is Apple werent talking about, not Best Buy. Its not their MO to create a confusing situation for the customer. In fact, they go out of their way to may the choice as simple as possible, only adding more choices once market saturation dictates it for sustained growth. How many more examples do you need?
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post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You are still reading logistical issues between carrying phones for disparate networks with pros and cons as simply a minor SKU issue? This is Apple werent talking about, not Best Buy. Its not their MO to create a confusing situation for the customer. In fact, they go out of their way to may the choice as simple as possible, only adding more choices once market saturation dictates it for sustained growth. How many more examples do you need?

They are minor issues when compared with the really big issue of how Apple and Verizon would divide the iphone revenue.

It is not their MO --- means it's style over substance issue. If I take your view, then it is already a confusing situation where buying a 3G iphone would eliminate most of the cool iphone games with hardware 3D accel graphics requirements.
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

It is not their MO --- means it's style over substance issue.

A business model done purely for style? That is a new one on me.
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post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

A business model done purely for style? That is a new one on me.

Apple has been saying that Apple TV is a "hobby" for the last few years now. That's the ultimate style over substance business model, isn't it?
post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Apple has been saying that Apple TV is a "hobby" for the last few years now. That's the ultimate style over substance business model, isn't it?

Huh? The AppleTV nor the word hobby constitute business models. Besides that, the AppleTV is an unusual device for Apple. They previewed a prototype despite not having it ready for another 6 months and they clearly called it a hobby. For a company that is device to test the waters and likely presented not so much for the consumer but for big studios to see how consumer felt about it and to see that there was a secure method in which their content could be streamed.

PS: Try to keep the topic on track otherwise we wont be able to these fun debates anymore, and that would make a sad panda.
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post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: Try to keep the topic on track otherwise we wont be able to these fun debates anymore, and that would make a sad panda.

Yes, let's get this topic on track.

If you read the original analyst's report --- it said really nothing about the technical difficulty or the added SKU being really a problem with the Verizon iphone. If Apple sells a T-Mobile iphone, it's going to be an extra SKU because it needs a special 1700 MHz version. If Apple sells a Sprint iphone, it's going to be an extra SKU because it needs a CDMA version.
post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

If Apple sells a T-Mobile iphone, it's going to be an extra SKU because it needs a special 1700 MHz version. If Apple sells a Sprint iphone, it's going to be an extra SKU because it needs a CDMA version.

1) The reasons why Apple won’t sell a Sprint iPhone right away are mostly the same reasons why they won’t sell a Verizon iPhone, with Sprint having an extra measure of desperation to give Apple everything they want.

2) WTF are you smoking! It’s a simple operating band that needs to be added and connected to the transciever. A frakin radio for the wireless chipset to access! Adding Operating IV (1700MHz) is a relatively simple task that requires nothing more than getting with T-Mobile USA on board (to make it’s worth their time) and adding it to the R&D of the 2010 iPhone. Not the complete overhaul that adding a CDMA iPhone would require or the completely different chipsets that a hybrid world-mode chip would require.

The the next chips from Infineon allow for up to 5 bands. The iPhone currently uses only 3 bands: Operating Band I (2100 MHz); Operating Band II (1900MHz); Operating Band V (850MHz).

Triquent frequency band modules used in iPhone
Image of iPhone 3GS logic board
Diagram of iPhone 3GS logic board
Infineon X-GOLD chip Apple will likely se for next iPhone PS: This was the last time I’m going out of my way to supply the same data over again on this topic. On top of that, thinking that an iPhone to work on T-Mobile USA means a completely new device means you are either spreading FUD or simply don’t much about 3GSM networks. Either way, i’m done.
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post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

2) WTF are you smoking! Its a simple operating band that needs to be added and connected to the transciever. A frakin radio for the wireless chipset to access! Adding Operating IV (1700MHz) is a relatively simple task that requires nothing more than getting with T-Mobile USA on board (to make its worth their time) and adding it to the R&D of the 2010 iPhone. Not the complete overhaul that adding a CDMA iPhone would require or the completely different chipsets that a hybrid world-mode chip would require.

EVERYTHING is RELATIVE, isn't it?

Making a CDMA variant iphone is not as hard as going to the moon. It is not as hard as negotiation between Apple and Verizon on how to split the money --- which is the really hard issue.

Hell, when Motorola changes the color of a cell phone --- they have to change the location of the cell phone antennas because different paint colors can affect RF receptions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/te...1&pagewanted=2

As I stated repeatedly, making a CDMA variant is a minor technical issue, a minor issue in cost increase, a minor issue in inventory management... --- the major issue is the revenue side. How are Verizon and Apple splitting the money?
post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) The reasons why Apple wont sell a Sprint iPhone right away are mostly the same reasons why they wont sell a Verizon iPhone, with Sprint having an extra measure of desperation to give Apple everything they want.

Not really. Verizon would be much more likely since there are multi-protocol chips that do GMS, CDMA and LTE, i.e., Qualcomm, but no one make a multi-protocol chip that does GMS, CDMA, LTE and WiMax.

The WiMax is what will leave Sprint out in the cold because no one is going to build that chip. Why the hell Sprint decided to use WiMax is beyond me except that they tend to make stupid decisions. I can't see Apple doing a phone just for Sprint's WiMax network.
post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timon View Post

Not really. Verizon would be much more likely since there are multi-protocol chips that do GMS, CDMA and LTE, i.e., Qualcomm, but no one make a multi-protocol chip that does GMS, CDMA, LTE and WiMax.

The WiMax is what will leave Sprint out in the cold because no one is going to build that chip. Why the hell Sprint decided to use WiMax is beyond me except that they tend to make stupid decisions. I can't see Apple doing a phone just for Sprint's WiMax network.

Neither WiMAX nor LTE are even worth considering for the next iPhone release.
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post #77 of 83
You have to understand when Verizon is involved the seas will part and all obstacles can be over come to get them whatever they want. Within this logic adding CDMA hybrid chip is as easy as adding another UTMS band. But only because its for Verizon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

WTF are you smoking! Its a simple operating band that needs to be added and connected to the transciever. A frakin radio for the wireless chipset to access! Adding Operating IV (1700MHz) is a relatively simple task that requires nothing more than getting with T-Mobile USA on board (to make its worth their time) and adding it to the R&D of the 2010 iPhone. Not the complete overhaul that adding a CDMA iPhone would require or the completely different chipsets that a hybrid world-mode chip would require.
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

EVERYTHING is RELATIVE, isn't it?
Hell, when Motorola changes the color of a cell phone --- they have to change the location of the cell phone antennas because different paint colors can affect RF receptions.

You declare that everything is relative and then ignore the finer details of the reality of this situation.

Motorola and Apple's approach to making phones is so different, its pretty much a useless exercise to make any comparison.

Quote:
As I stated repeatedly, making a CDMA variant is a minor technical issue, a minor issue in cost increase, a minor issue in inventory management... --- the major issue is the revenue side. How are Verizon and Apple splitting the money?

Its true it would be a minor technical issue for companies who make many different types of phones. But Apple is not that company. Their mobile business is built around using the same phone for everyone, it would be a major change for Apple to divide their manufacturing lines.
post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You declare that everything is relative and then ignore the finer details of the reality of this situation.

Motorola and Apple's approach to making phones is so different, its pretty much a useless exercise to make any comparison.

Its true it would be a minor technical issue for companies who make many different types of phones. But Apple is not that company. Their mobile business is built around using the same phone for everyone, it would be a major change for Apple to divide their manufacturing lines.

I don't ignore anything.

Everything you point out --- means that Apple doesn't like to do certain things. It doesn't mean that Apple can't do those things because of major technical and financial issues.
post #80 of 83
It would give them an immediate company-owned presence in the USA and they would be the largest operator in Germany. Their market cap is only $68 billion, so easily do-able. The could then move their iPhone and upcoming iTablet offerings to their own carrier. iPhone Nano for the less expensive offering. In other areas of the world they could become a Mobile Virtual Network Operator (MVNO) using the other carriers infrastructure.

If Apple was able to pull this off and in the US create a first class 3G/4G network, imagine the clout the company would have in IPTv, wireless internet access, cell phone access. It would probably also scare the "you know what" out of Comcast behind the NBC deal as they would go overnight from having created a strong bargaining position for TV shows via iTunes to a situation where Apple/T-Mobile could broadcast directly to millions of devices, bypassing cable modems entirely.

Just a thought.
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