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Apple adds 3.33GHz quad-core Mac Pro, 2TB hard drive upgrades - Page 2

post #41 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff66 View Post

After doing some research, I have found out that the quad-core Xeon 3500 processor in the Mac Pro is a Bloomsfield series i7. The 2.66ghz version sells for $290 on NewEgg. The 2.8ghz Lynnfield i7 in the iMac also sells for $290 on NewEgg.

What does this mean? Apple is completely gouging people who buy a quad-core Mac Pro. That machine should sell for at least $500 less than what its going for.

I'm going to do some serious soul-searching in the next couple of months. Do I really want a 27" iMac or do I build a Hackintosh? Option 3 would be to build the Hackintosh and if it doesn't work, I'll throw Windows 7 on it and use that for my video and photo stuff. At least Photoshop is 64-bit on Windows.

Good idea. Just make sure you buy the right hardware and it will work - trust me. It works for me and many thousands of hackintosh users out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff66 View Post

I hope you are right. I want an i7-powered headless Mac.

It's called a HackPro and you can build one for your own. Look at my guide at this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

As much as I have no desire to get a MacPro ever, and am actually considering a 27" iMac, I'm starting to get on the side of the mid-tower or i7 folks. I think having a headless option at $1500-1800 would do a lot to help the range at this point. But, for those that will do anything to save $300, you will always be stuck fighting off Hackintoshes.

Same as above...

Quote:
Originally Posted by B747 View Post

That's interesting. Care to enlighten me, please?

Wrote a Hacknitosh guide just for you! (a post in this thread).
post #42 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: With the next Macs waiting may be advised to see if Apple has reversed their wonky SATA connection that is making many a 3rd-party drives not work. Who knows what they are doing but a HDD is the one piece of HW in a computer that should be truly universal.

I haven't heard of any systematic problems, but I don't go out to other sites that often and see what's going on.

I do have an original Mac Pro where bay 1 doesn't work with many drives. It works with original SATA drives and 3.0Gb SATA drives with a jumper that will force 1.5 speed. The other bays work just fine.
post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Went to Frys and got 2x2GB Patriot RAM.

Next time try to buy wellknown brand RAM, not lower-end one.
Try G.SKILL, Corsair, OSZ
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post #44 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Good idea. Just make sure you buy the right hardware and it will work - trust me. It works for me and many thousands of hackintosh users out there.

I can attest to the ease of installation, stability, driver support and performance has increased considerably since the project started. Ive been with it since nearly the beginning and have built many a machine. They really do make easy now. There are some tradeoffs but for tinkerers its not anything too encumbering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I haven't heard of any systematic problems, but I don't go out to other sites that often and see what's going on.

The last batch of MBPs came with a 1.5Gbps SATA connector. This is fine for HDDs in a notebook but for SSDs it can become the bottleneck. Apple released an firmware update for it but issued a silly disclaimer.
Quote:
About MacBook Pro EFI Firmware Update 1.7
MacBook Pro EFI Firmware Update 1.7 addresses an issue reported by a small number of customers using drives based on the SATA 3Gbps specification with the June 2009 MacBook Pro. While this update allows drives to use transfer rates greater than 1.5Gbps, Apple has not qualified or offered these drives for Mac notebooks and their use is unsupported

More on the issue here
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3672&p=5
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post #45 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post

Next time try to buy wellknown brand RAM, not lower-end one.
Try G.SKILL, Corsair, OSZ

They are well known to me and make a good products. Ive actually had problems with all of those companies over the years. They all had warranties and I got replacements, but the RAM was the problem. After trying 4 sticks of Patriot RAM even alongside my 2 sticks of 1GB Apple RAM in every combination possible not one of the sticks worked. This tells me its likely not the RAM, especially since Ive used Patriot many times over the years.
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post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The last batch of MBPs came with a 1.5Gbps SATA connector. This is fine for HDDs in a notebook but for SSDs it can become the bottleneck. Apple released an firmware update for it but issued a silly disclaimer.

More on the issue here
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3672&p=5

That wasn't a connector issue, that was a driver or configuration issue.
post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That wasn't a connector issue, that was a driver or configuration issue.

He does have an update saying its an issue with the logic board, but that is still a wonky issue to have with SATA. Even after the driver update the issues were still present and sometimes worse than before.

Im looking forward to getting a new Mac early next year but I will wait to see what they release and read a few reviews before making my decision.
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post #48 of 78
Quote:
The Mac Pro needs a new set of graphics options much more than it needs new processors. It's embarrassing the way that it stands.

Amen.

This is a nonsense upgrade. .33 extra for $1200? Are they nuts?

Yeesh. Just build a Hackintosh.

Mac Pro's are rip offs.

Take away its fancy case and you've got something that is £1000 overpriced. Ez.

Take away the screen from the iMac (£800-£1000?) subtract it from the price of the top end iMac...and you have a...£700-900 mid-tower range.

It's not like Apple doesn't have options. They're just margin whores. And the Mac Pro is evidence of it.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

This is a nonsense upgrade. .33 extra for $1200? Are they nuts?

Not so easy. The default 2.66GHz costs itself about $500 and 3.33GHz costs about $1500. So the Apple's margin for the upgrade is about $200.
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post #50 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

Dude... that is not going to happen. Intel's 40core chips are not going to be in any consumer machines for soime time. It would be waaaaay to $$$ to even consider it. Only the very very high govt/ scientific community will be able to use these for number crunching etc.. yes the movie community and 3d studio render farms might get them as well, but those shops tend to have capital to purchase such tech. However I could be wrong. But I do not se Apple killing the MacPro at all.

Apple won't kill the MacPro, it's the customers who buy the MacPro for professional rendering that will kill it. Normal consumers don't need all that power, they certainly can't handle a 40, 80 or 100 core monster.

Renderfarms, the military and scientific community will suck those 40, 80 and 100 core behemoths fast, especially since they use less power than current processors! Also unless Apple gets on board, it will run Windows, because Microsoft will see to it that it does. So there goes Apple video software business too, unless they code for Windows.

If Apple doesn't offer a optional MacPro with these new monster processors, the market share for the MacPro is going to shrink like a sack of cold nuts.

If Apple gets exclusive use of the new mega-cores before anyone else, they will sell quite a lot of machines. X-servers and MacPro's alike.

A Mac might make take the top supercomputing title.
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post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post

Not so easy. The default 2.66GHz costs itself about $500 and 3.33GHz costs about $1500. So the Apple's margin for the upgrade is about $200.

Intels prices for 1000 units.

W3520 (8M L2 cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads,

2.66 GHz (130W) 4.80 GT/sec Intel® QPI 45nm) $284
W3540 (8M L2 cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.93 GHz (130W) 4.80 GT/sec Intel® QPI 45nm) $562
W3580 (8M L2 cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.33 GHz (130W) 6.40 GT/sec Intel® QPI 45nm) $999
For Lemon Bon Bon, the increase in clock speed has little to do with the cot of the chip. Its understandable if the price jump outweighs the speed bump but that doesnt mean that Intel or Apple is price gouging. Just look at the 90nm Itaniums

9150N (24M L3 cache, 2 Cores, 4 Threads, 1.60 GHz (104W) 533/400 MHz FSB 90nm)

$3,692
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post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexiChriS View Post

Wish the MacBook Pro was more upgraded like this.

Agree. more grunt for Macbook pro.
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post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

the 40 core CPU's are custom made for research purposes. with current technology there is no way Intel can make a 40 core CPU and sell it at a price people are willing to pay

Not the average joe, but renderfarms, supercomputers, the military and scientifics will suck them up as they use less power than today's processors.

Where does Apple lose here? Mostly the video rendering customers for the MacPro and X-Server who buy large amounts of these machines to service their Apple video software. Why buy 100 X-Servers at $1000 each when you can buy one 100 core Dell Server for half the price and use 1/100th of the power to boot? Will the Dell run OS X? Hell no, it's going to be Windows.

If Apple gets exclusive use of the new mega-cores like they did with the G5's, they will get a lot of attention from all the markets just for the processors alone.

It's also a bonus that OS X is Unix for the scientifics. Renderfarms will most likely use Linux as its light and custom. Even Pixar uses Linux for their renderfarm. The military will most likely use something so off brand that nobody knows what it is. But video rendering that uses OS X and Apple software will be left out in the cold, because Apple's limited vertical consumer product line won't carry a MacPro or x-Server with 40, 80 or 100 core processor.

Sure some hack can be done that Linux will run on the farm and send the results back to OS X, but that's not a tight integration of Apple video software and hardware, certainly no money for Apple or it's stockholders.
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post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Intel’s prices for 1000 units….

— W3520 (8M L2 cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads,

2.66 GHz (130W) 4.80 GT/sec Intel® QPI 45nm) $284
— W3540 (8M L2 cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 2.93 GHz (130W) 4.80 GT/sec Intel® QPI 45nm) $562
— W3580 (8M L2 cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.33 GHz (130W) 6.40 GT/sec Intel® QPI 45nm) $999

I just took retail prices. If look at the wholesale prices, when Apple's margin is about $500. Really not bad Half grand from air
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post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Why buy 100 X-Servers at $1000 each when you can buy one 100 core Dell Server for half the price and use 1/100th of the power to boot? Will the Dell run OS X? Hell no, it's going to be Windows.

May be they should buy Sony PS3 ? USAF did that.
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post #56 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post

May be they should buy Sony PS3 ? USAF did that.

Especially since the PS3 can run Linux. (it's a hot S.O.B. though)

But video rendering, that's Apple prime software sales, they need to get on the Intel mega core power wagon, especially exclusive first use.

Expect Apple stock to jump high the next quarter after release if it occurs.
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post #57 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by gin_tonic View Post

Not so easy. The default 2.66GHz costs itself about $500 and 3.33GHz costs about $1500. So the Apple's margin for the upgrade is about $200.

but there is no way the rest of the system can cost any where near $2000 with a carp video card like it has and only 3gb of ram.
post #58 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe The Dragon View Post

but there is no way the rest of the system can cost any where near $2000 with a carp video card like it has and only 3gb of ram.

If you spec it out with the cheap off the shelf products from online vendors, of course not, but this isnt designed for gaming or for hobbyists to put together and tweak. Its a professional workstation. Go to any major PC vendors site and youll see lower-end products and higher-end products with the same offering in the CPU, but they are not the same systems by any stretch and the price tag backs that up.

The Mac Pro is simply not designed for the average user. If you are even considering building your own tower then you should go for it.
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post #59 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

Seriously, a five day wait and perhaps ten seconds of reading headlines. Given a fair amount of updates, we're looking at two or three minutes of work for the life of the machine.

And reading up about how to actually do the workaround, then taking the time to do it.

The one other thing I've mentioned in this forum before is that, if a component in your Hackintosh fails, then you'll need to deal with the tech support for the manufacturer directly, file an RMA case, ship the component back on your own dime, then wait 4-8 weeks for a replacement. As compared to taking your Mac down to your local Apple Store and having the component replaced for you on the spot in most cases. Again, another issue where the bit of extra money you spend at the beginning saves you a fair amount of hassle in the long run.

And yes, my time is worth that much to me. In addition to working on/managing 2 or 3 software projects at the same time, I have a very young son who demands a lot of care and a household to maintain. So spare time is a luxury which I don't have much of these days. The days when I lived at home, had everything taken care of for me, and had nothing else to do but fiddle around with a computer are long gone...
 
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post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

You are welcome.
However, you can have a Mac Pro and a pretty good one.

Consider this: a Core i7 920, 12 GB of RAM, 1TB HD (or more), and a Geforce 9800GTX 512MB or a Radeon 4890 1GB (+ all the other stuff required: nice case, whisper quite power supply and fans, DVD-RW, etc). Install a RETAIL Mac OS X SL and run it NATIVELY so you can update directly from Apple (no hacks).

Cost? about $1,500US.

That is a far more powerful system than the entry Quad Mac Pro and costs $1,000US less.

You will be breaking Apple User License by installing Mac OS X on a non-apple PC, *BUT* you will not be stealing/pirating if you are buying a *retail* install DVD of SL.

I am running a Hackintosh and it works like a dream. I am using it because like you, I did not had enough money to replace my aging G5 PowerMac with a new Mac Pro.

If you are interested I can show you where to start and believe me, it is faaaaar easier than you might think.

I specd out the same machine as the base Mac Pro. Xeon processor, ram, everything to a T. Came out around 1200 total. It was sad to see the 1000 dollar price difference for it being a Mac, when all the parts were identical but the software. Running a Quad Core hackintosh that cost me 500 bucks at the moment, its really fast and stable!
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post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I specd out the same machine as the base Mac Pro. Xeon processor, ram, everything to a T. Came out around 1200 total. It was sad to see the 1000 dollar price difference for it being a Mac, when all the parts were identical but the software.

You found parts that have same basic performance and capacity specs, but "all the parts were [NOT] identical but the software. Far from it. Now, that doesnt mean that what you are giving up are things you even care about, but that is not the same as being "identical.
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post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You found parts that have same basic performance and capacity specs, but "all the parts were [NOT] identical but the software.” Far from it. Now, that doesn’t mean that what you are giving up are things you even care about, but that is not the same as being "identical”.

Okay, maybe I shouldn't have used "identical", but my point is, it has the same performance specs as the Mac Pro and acts just the same as one. Apple just costs more (a lot more!) in terms of the Pro line The only difference would be the motherboard makers and the case. Of course, one could find a dead Mac Pro (and drill a bit!) and put the hackintosh setup in there. But seriously, when it is the same computer, and costs so much more, I have to wonder why buy a mac pro when hackintoshing is so easy! (Mine runs perfectly, and updates don't break it. Even if they do, its a two click process to get everything working again and an extra re-boot)

https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/M...px?ID=12836006
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post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Apple just costs more (a lot more!) in terms of the Pro line The only difference would be the motherboard makers and the case. […] But seriously, when it is the same computer, and costs so much more, I have to wonder why buy a mac pro when hackintoshing is so easy! (Mine runs perfectly, and updates don't break it.

1) I’ve had plenty of success and been through many iterations of install methods with OSx86 so I’m not stating this from a “making a Hackintosh is evil, you should buy a Mac and i hope you go to jail” stance. Quite the opposite.

2) Apple’s spends money on making more environmentally freindly machines. While you may not care about this at all and it’s surely done to sell more machines, it’s something that requires R&D and production costs that other companies can save in. Also, this includes power usage. While your CPU has a specific TDP there are plenty of other components that use power and Apple is usually using the lowest in it’s class. Again, this may not concern you. I surely don’t pat myself on the back because I bought a green computer. The day I do that is the day I throw myself in front of a Prius.

http://www.apple.com/environment/
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/ 3) Then there is support costs for buying a prebuilt PC. Not so much for them putting it together but guaranteeing the work and agreeing to service the whole thing under one warranty. Sure, your components have warranties, likely many are considerably longer than the 1yr default of the Mac Pro, but if you have an issue and you’ve correctly troubleshoot the problem you still will need some luck to get it repaired or replaced by the manufacturer. assuming you still have the receipt and warranty and are willing to ship it to them on your dime.

Again, if these aren’t issues for then that is fine, but you shouldn’t be scratching your head as to why a pre-built product built to higher standards costs more than one you built yourself with off the shelf parts. It doesn’t make one or the other better as they both have pros and cons, but it does make them different enough that a cursory comparison just isn’t fair. This works both ways.
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post #64 of 78
The cost of a Mac Pro is essentially nothing if you use it for either video editing or visual effects - which is very frequently what they're used for. If you've got an edit bay or After Effects or Shake station, say, and your business is doing well, you're probably charging at least $1500/day for work done on that computer, staff not included. The decision is simple - why bother with a POS plastic workstation which will need some geek you don't have on staff to spec, buy, build and maintain it, and which will just be a total pain in the ass some day when that certain software update for FCP or that plugin you absolutely need to install to handle that new codec or effect can't be installed because the OS revision it requires won't install on your Hackintosh. Welcome to the real world of business, where a $5k workstation is the least expensive item on the agenda and is fully deducted and amortised over two years. This is why the Pro in the name means something very real. These other options are for amateur-land, and that's TOTALLY fine and very valid for that world, but don't judge one world's needs by those of another.
post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxplanar View Post

The cost of a Mac Pro is essentially nothing if you use it for either video editing or visual effects - which is very frequently what they're used for. If you've got an edit bay or After Effects or Shake station, say, and your business is doing well, you're probably charging at least $1500/day for work done on that computer, staff not included. The decision is simple - why bother with a POS plastic workstation which will need some geek you don't have on staff to spec, buy, build and maintain it, and which will just be a total pain in the ass some day when that certain software update for FCP or that plugin you absolutely need to install to handle that new codec or effect can't be installed because the OS revision it requires won't install on your Hackintosh. Welcome to the real world of business, where a $5k workstation is the least expensive item on the agenda and is fully deducted and amortised over two years. This is why the Pro in the name means something very real. These other options are for amateur-land, and that's TOTALLY fine and very valid for that world, but don't judge one world's needs by those of another.

I think you are the one confusing worlds here. Any real business that uses a hackintosh as his main platform is not a serious business. It is a joke.

However, people at home want a solid tower Mac that doesn't cost them a fortune. This is why people are building hackintoshes.
post #66 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

I think you are the one confusing worlds here. Any real business that uses a hackintosh as his main platform is not a serious business. It is a joke.

However, people at home want a solid tower Mac that doesn't cost them a fortune. This is why people are building hackintoshes.

$1,400 for the single is stoopid expensive when you can get server class dual quads and 8 ram slots for cheaper. The 2.26GHz clocks itself up to 2.8GHz or so on less threaded apps (Pretty much everything) anyway. Look at the part price online. The procs in the 8-cores retailed at like 1100.00 each. The part in the single quad is like 400.00 "Home" quality.
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post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The MacPro line is going to die.

What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.


Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?

Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)

That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.


Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!

Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?

Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.


These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.

Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.

This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.


The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!

The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!

Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.

Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.

Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.

It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.

You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.

Care to price one of 40, 80, or 100 core systems?? Might need some Government assistance for that one. Also, I think someone's tinfoil hat is wrapped just a little too tight.
post #68 of 78
Quote:
However, people at home want a solid tower Mac that doesn't cost them a fortune. This is why people are building hackintoshes.


I can see why Hacks are built. Apple's machines are just too expensive for great swathes of people. There's one thing Apple doing a netbook with a profit margin of £10 and a Mac Pro where the margin must be off the charts because quad core cpus are dirt cheap and quad towers in pc world blow away the Mac Pro for value and performance.

They jacked the prices of the Mac Pro up way too high starting with the G5 and it has got worse since then. You'd be nuts to buy one. Especially in light of the new iMac i7. The Mac Pro looks poor value for money. May it sit and rot until yet another overpriced update. The machine for pros? With it's crappy light weight gpu? What a joke. Apple are 100% overpriced compared to their PC world equivalents on the desktop and laptops in many cases.

One can only hope that as their sales increase they'll drop prices a little ie scale of economy? Slap. What was I thinking that won't happen.


Quote:
The MacPro line is going to die.

What the heck is this speed bump? It's about nothing.


Remember when the PowerMac's sold like hotcakes because of the awesome Dual G5 processors in them?

Yea it was basically two computers in one box, Virginia Tech even made a supercomputer out of them that got third place in the world. Video rendering made work farms, geek consumers went nuts with all that power, 3D game developers took out ads in all the Mac related magazines. (then the processor switch bomb dropped of course)

That Dual G5 was so fast for it's time, with a fast bus on each processor that one can run two 3D video games at once. I know I had one, my wallet is still sore from that choice.


Ok, now given that you know that people buy based upon the price for performance, what the heck is a measly 8 core MacPro with common Intel processors going to do when Intel releases the 40 core, 80 core and 100 core processors? as early as NEXT YEAR!

Are these going into Apple's vertical one size fits all consumer Mac's lineup?

Hell NO!! Too expensive and specialized for all that power.


These awesome processors are going into specialty PC boxes for the video industry and that means Windows and the 3rd party software will follow. Even Apple most likely already has their video software running on Windows just as a precaution.

Goodbye MacPro. Goodbye any left of the pro's using Apple's gear and perhaps their software, they will have to follow the processor power. Because time = money and more processor power the better.

This is Apple's problem, a limited product line. They should be much more flexible.


The X-server is not even worth buying now that they use common Intel processors like anyone else, the X-RAID IS GONE! POOF!

The MacPro is next to be gone. Bye Bye!

Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are no longer a "computer" company, but rather a consumer electronics product company.

Apple makes stuff that sometimes can be used in business and enterprise, like the G5's or the iPhone, but Apple doesn't specialize in that market, favoring the consumer market instead.

Now unless Apple changes up and makes OS X run on these huge core processors and offers special order MacPro's with them, kiss the MacPro use amongst most power needing professionals goodbye.

It would be a radical change from Apple's limited vertical product line, a much needed change.

You have to go with the flow and Apple likes to force it's way.

I just think they're pricing the Mac Pro into oblivion/irrelevance. Fine. Up to them. It's their tower. And a tower is all it is. And you can get cheaper ones in PC land. And millions of people do. Until Apple gets serious about a mid-tower then they're missing out on sales. How many? Well. Who knows. Doesn't look like we'll get to find out.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #69 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

You are welcome.
However, you can have a Mac Pro and a pretty good one.

Consider this: a Core i7 920, 12 GB of RAM, 1TB HD (or more), and a Geforce 9800GTX 512MB or a Radeon 4890 1GB (+ all the other stuff required: nice case, whisper quite power supply and fans, DVD-RW, etc). Install a RETAIL Mac OS X SL and run it NATIVELY so you can update directly from Apple (no hacks).

Cost? about $1,500US.

That is a far more powerful system than the entry Quad Mac Pro and costs $1,000US less.

You will be breaking Apple User License by installing Mac OS X on a non-apple PC, *BUT* you will not be stealing/pirating if you are buying a *retail* install DVD of SL.

I am running a Hackintosh and it works like a dream. I am using it because like you, I did not had enough money to replace my aging G5 PowerMac with a new Mac Pro.

If you are interested I can show you where to start and believe me, it is faaaaar easier than you might think.

You can have a Mac Pro?
Bud, it's NOT a Mac Pro OK? Put your Mac Pro in the paper and I'll sell my Mac Pro WAY faster than you'll sell yours he he! Plus, let's do a HD swap out! You keep saying Mac Pro... why?
If everyone did this there would be no Apple... how could they stay in business? With your analogies, it's cool to step on toes. You wouldn't happen to be one of those who own a Volkswagen with a Rolls Royce front end on it would you he he?
Get a refurb Mac Pro and they don't get hot and burn up like your PC will... what your not telling people is the serious heat problems you guy's deal with with these i7's! Yeah, start crunching some video or running that thing for a while... they get hot, and not only do you have to watch out about frying your processor but Apple won the case against Psystar so your violating the EULA! You like OS X and Mac's but you won't give them your money... just use Windows if you can't buy it! I can't own a Farrari but I'm not going to go weld a Ferrari body to my Chevy!
Yeah, and you probably have 3 years of Apple care to boot! Whatever... go buy a real Mac for crying out loud and quit hacking and cracking.
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Not the average joe, but renderfarms, supercomputers, the military and scientifics will suck them up as they use less power than today's processors.

Where does Apple lose here? Mostly the video rendering customers for the MacPro and X-Server who buy large amounts of these machines to service their Apple video software. Why buy 100 X-Servers at $1000 each when you can buy one 100 core Dell Server for half the price and use 1/100th of the power to boot? Will the Dell run OS X? Hell no, it's going to be Windows.

If Apple gets exclusive use of the new mega-cores like they did with the G5's, they will get a lot of attention from all the markets just for the processors alone.

It's also a bonus that OS X is Unix for the scientifics. Renderfarms will most likely use Linux as its light and custom. Even Pixar uses Linux for their renderfarm. The military will most likely use something so off brand that nobody knows what it is. But video rendering that uses OS X and Apple software will be left out in the cold, because Apple's limited vertical consumer product line won't carry a MacPro or x-Server with 40, 80 or 100 core processor.

Sure some hack can be done that Linux will run on the farm and send the results back to OS X, but that's not a tight integration of Apple video software and hardware, certainly no money for Apple or it's stockholders.

Nostradamus has spoken!
People use MP's for more than just rendering. Just because you don't want to spend the $$ doesn't mean other people won't! And I bet your PC hardware has Apple Care too huh?
Plus you get upgrades to the newest OS SL for $29... this is what you pay for if you purchased a Mac to start with so it's actually cheaper in the long run because it just works and when the new OS's come out you don't have to spend $300 for it like with Windows 7.
You act like render farms are the backbone of civilization! Companies have the money to buy macs and the ones who build custom farms usually don't use Macs for that... the Macs are used for the clients end because they just like Apples tight OS/Hardware integration (and they can't run hackintoshes legally in a real business) so your high with your predictions there Nostradamus!
What about the music sector? How about the people who are gifted talented musicians and that don't want to or can't mess with technical computer issues? They are the ones who use Macs because they are busy doing other things like composing, performing and doing the things that they do. You obviously aren't a creationist... most likely IT.
post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

I never understood why anyone would buy Apple RAM or HD's. $500/ drive is outrageous. LOL Why does Apple do this? Even companies would rather have their techs buy drives and RAM 3rd party.

Write-offs!
You don't understand business.
Get the most expensive stuff in your systems and write it off on your taxes and get it BACK!
Make sense now?
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by newrigel View Post

You can have a Mac Pro?
Bud, it's NOT a Mac Pro OK? Put your Mac Pro in the paper and I'll sell my Mac Pro WAY faster than you'll sell yours he he! Plus, let's do a HD swap out! You keep saying Mac Pro... why?
If everyone did this there would be no Apple... how could they stay in business?

Get a refurb Mac Pro and they don't get hot and burn up like your PC will... what your not telling people is the serious heat problems you guy's deal with with these i7's! Yeah, start crunching some video or running that thing for a while... they get hot, and not only do you have to watch out about frying your processor but Apple won the case against Psystar so your violating the EULA! You like OS X and Mac's but you won't give them your money... just use Windows if you can't buy it! Yeah, and you probably have 3 years of Apple care to boot! Whatever... go buy a real Mac for crying out loud and quit hacking and cracking.

It would be hard to beat the bad grammar and poorly thought out talking points. I axed the lame vehicular metaphors. I'm not justifying breaking the EULA, just don't like the poor arguments used here.

It's not that hard to set heat sinks properly.

My HP xw8200 have about as good of a hard drive swapping method as my Mac Pro's, and the xw's drive carriers actually have rubber grommet dampening and do not require using any screws, the clip just snap into the screw holes. I wish computers could hot swap internal drives though, I really don't like shutting them down.

I did buy a refurbished Mac Pro. It was missing the extra optical bay screws, hard drive slot #1 never really worked very well except for the small hard drive that came with it. The official Apple ATI XT1900 cards tend to burn themselves up.

Applecare is another $250 on top of the cost of the machine, for service which you have to carry or ship in the computer in order to get service. For the cost of doing without the computer for half a week or more, even if it's just a graphics card issue, it's hard to justify the $250.
post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Ive had plenty of success and been through many iterations of install methods with OSx86 so Im not stating this from a making a Hackintosh is evil, you should buy a Mac and i hope you go to jail stance. Quite the opposite.

2) Apples spends money on making more environmentally freindly machines. While you may not care about this at all and its surely done to sell more machines, its something that requires R&D and production costs that other companies can save in. Also, this includes power usage. While your CPU has a specific TDP there are plenty of other components that use power and Apple is usually using the lowest in its class. Again, this may not concern you. I surely dont pat myself on the back because I bought a green computer. The day I do that is the day I throw myself in front of a Prius.
http://www.apple.com/environment/
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/ 3) Then there is support costs for buying a prebuilt PC. Not so much for them putting it together but guaranteeing the work and agreeing to service the whole thing under one warranty. Sure, your components have warranties, likely many are considerably longer than the 1yr default of the Mac Pro, but if you have an issue and youve correctly troubleshoot the problem you still will need some luck to get it repaired or replaced by the manufacturer. assuming you still have the receipt and warranty and are willing to ship it to them on your dime.

Again, if these arent issues for then that is fine, but you shouldnt be scratching your head as to why a pre-built product built to higher standards costs more than one you built yourself with off the shelf parts. It doesnt make one or the other better as they both have pros and cons, but it does make them different enough that a cursory comparison just isnt fair. This works both ways.

I'm very impressed by your response. Thank you! Many valid points here. For some, the all in one, one dealer, one place for warranty, greener machine, etc is worth the extra dollars, and power to them! For me, I like to tinker, to get inside the machine and change things out when I feel like. The cost savings are worth it to me in terms of time. As you said, neither is better or worse, just each has their own way. Thanks for the objective reply, that is much appreciated!
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
Reply
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
Reply
post #74 of 78
Does anyone know if you can buy the low end Mac Pro and simply upgrade the processor later? Are the procs in Mac Pros replaceable?

It seems like you could get a low end one, and then pick up the fastest proc at a later date.
post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano_tube View Post

Hi All.

I have been reading the posts here and I want to help clear some questions and assumptions.

1. OS X Updates: if a hackintosh is installed with a Retail version of OS X (mainly SL) and the hardware does not include an Atom processor (netbook), then there is no issues. It's just like updating a regular Mac. Here are two nice guides on how to do it: Lifehacker , teknojunkie
Also, just type "hackintosh" in YouTube... a lot of videos and visual guides can be found there.

2. How does a retail version of OS X works on a hackintosh?
If the hardware of the hackintosh is supported by OS X, then the only remaining issue left is how does OS X communicate with this hardware when it boots. As you know, PCs use a BIOS system while Macs use the more advanced EFI. So what is needed is some sort of software that "translates" to OS X what the BIOS says (in human terms, it's like translating from Chinese to English). This translation software is called "Boot Loader" and the best (by far) on the scene is called Chameleon. Additionally, like Boot Camp, this software also allows multiple OSs to be installed on the Hackintosh. I have it installed on mine and I am running OS X and Windows 7. It is also a graphical boot loader so it is dead easy to use. You install it like you install every other Mac program.

3. Updates in general: if you installed a retail Mac OS X, you update just like a normal mac - via the Apple Update Application or by downloading a combo update. However, as any Mac user out there, it is wise to wait a day or two before you do any update on a Mac or a Hackintosh. A good place to read news about everything-hackintosh is here: Insanely Mac.

Bottom line: most of the people reading about hackintoshes for the first time think "Meh... it's too complicated" and as Mac users are (including me), we want it to just work when we buy it. Well, it is not difficult to build a hackintosh if you just follow the guides. Last but not least, it is a lot of fun to build one.

My "HackPro" is running on:
Intel Quad 6600 2.4Ghz CPU
Intel DragonTail Motherboard with on-Board LAN and Sound (just like a Mac)
8 GB DDR2 800Mhz RAM
GeForce 9800GTX+ 512MB
Two 320GB SATA HDs
DVD-RW SATA
Nice Thermaltake black case with quite fans and power supply.
Mac OS Leopard 10.5.8 that identifies my HackPro as "Mac Pro 2,1"

A machine like this today will cost under $1,000 and trust me, it flies!
Boots under 15 seconds and works great with all the pro apps.

Awesome man! I'm looking forward to making my own eventually.
post #76 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

Does anyone know if you can buy the low end Mac Pro and simply upgrade the processor later? Are the procs in Mac Pros replaceable?

It seems like you could get a low end one, and then pick up the fastest proc at a later date.

In theory at least. The fans do tend to be keyed to a specific CPU speed though.
post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by freakboy View Post

Does anyone know if you can buy the low end Mac Pro and simply upgrade the processor later? Are the procs in Mac Pros replaceable?

It seems like you could get a low end one, and then pick up the fastest proc at a later date.

From what I remember reading on the forums, that would be a no. But I'm not 100% sure.
post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

In theory at least. The fans do tend to be keyed to a specific CPU speed though.

That doesn't make any sense. A good control loop shouldn't need to know the CPU speed. Besides, there are chip-to-chip variations, even for the same core design and same fab specs, it is possible for a slower chip to run hotter than a faster one.
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