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Time Magazine ranks Motorola Droid above Apple iPhone for 2009 - Page 5

post #161 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

We can also look at sales. Take the best Android-based release and compare to the worse iPhone OS release, the iPhone still wins hands down. If it’s just silly hype then the Pre easily beats the Droid.

It’s funny that it seems that even the Apple haters on this forum’s best argument is that you can’t include the iPhone in such stats because it’s too good compared to the competition.

Between the Droid and Pre, I think it's more than just hype. While WebOS is a great OS, its success doesn't seem to match the hype. To me, it feels like the Pre has stopped dead in the water. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen much news in terms of its progress. The Pixi was released without that much hype.

The Droid has the backing of Android which is taking off at a tremendous rate. It's got a better future ahead of it, as more developers are boarding the Android ship than the WebOS ship. Not to mention it's on the larger and further reaching CDMA network.
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post #162 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwhite1000 View Post

Bottom Line is that ATT has the crappiest network in America. Far higher liklihood of dropped calls or no 3G service. Prior to getting an iPhone I had Verizon for 14 years. How many dropped calls did I get in 14 years. ONLY TWO!! One gets more than that in a day with iPhone and ATT.

Hey John, I have a question how can you have a service 4 years before the company that you had even existed. Verizon wireless was not a company until 1999 when air touch was acquired by Vodaphone and they got together with Bell to form Verizon wireless. And I very much doubt you only had two dropped calls in that time period.

So before you speak make sure you know what you are talking about, becuase there was no company called Verizon wireless 14 years ago.
post #163 of 257
Does anybody even take Time seriously anymore?
post #164 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

They are talking about the Droid hardware not the Verizon or ATT network. Most users could care less about simultaneous voice and data, its just become a pathetic talking point for ATT users. Verizons network blows away ATT.

As a guy who travels a lot for work and does a lot of communicating on the go, being able to talk on the phone and exchange email, directions, contact information, and look up any thing I need or want is a major selling point. I'm very rarely in a spot that doesn't have WIFI or 3G coverage, so having 3G coverage in every po-dunk city is irrelevant to me.

I commend Google, Verizon and Motorola for a decent (not great) smart phone. However, given that the iPhone has been out over three years, I would expect a much more polished and well-rounded device. All they had to do is copy everything the iPhone was successful at and add a few features AT&T/Apple don't provide, and they still didn't hit a homerun!

People love the iPhone for the ease of experience for all of their media....music, movies, social networking, OS, UI, etc....Apple has always done well with merging all of these things in one device (or computer) and making your average-joe to do things a tech geek would only be able to pull off on another device.

Don't get me wrong, AT&T could definitely do better with their 3G coverage, but with LTE being rolled out next year, why would they invest too much in old technology. Personally, I'm more focused on the fact AT&T is already in the process of establishing a great 4G network. 3G is sooo 2007! HA!
post #165 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

We can also look at sales. Take the best Android-based release and compare to the worse iPhone OS release, the iPhone still wins hands down. If its just silly hype then the Pre easily beats the Droid.

Its funny that it seems that even the Apple haters on this forums best argument is that you cant include the iPhone in such stats because its too good compared to the competition.

lets see, the droid is estimated to have sold somewhere from 700-800k units in just November alone, at this rate it would best the original iPhone 2G during the 4th quarter which sold 1,119k units.

How hands down is that?

Also the Pre has unfortunately been nothing much more than hype and not being able to do much else.
post #166 of 257
Time ranks a frickin' fan above the 3GS? Pulleeze.

Just because the Druid offers the best challenge yet to the iPhone doesn't mean it really "cuts the mustard". Practically speaking, the Druid "cuts the cheese." This has all the appearance of an attempt by Time to bait Apple, Motorola, AT&T and Verizon into an ever bigger advertising fest.
post #167 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

lets see, the droid is estimated to have sold somewhere from 700-800k units in just November alone, at this rate it would best the original iPhone 2G during the 4th quarter which sold 1,119k units.

The question is whether Droid can maintain momentum long-term.
post #168 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

lets see, the droid is estimated to have sold somewhere from 700-800k units in just November alone, at this rate it would best the original iPhone 2G during the 4th quarter which sold 1,119k units.

The original iPhone sales suffered from a number of factors, including tremendous trepidation over Apple being a newcomer to the cellular market, its [superior] touch screen and lack of physical keyboard, lack of 3G, and lack of subsidization [high price]. The Druid has none of these factors weighing against it--it fails on its own accord.
post #169 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyler View Post

And I very much doubt you only had two dropped calls in that time period.

Maybe he's so used to being hung up on, the dropped calls didn't register.
post #170 of 257
So Time calls Droid the "Gadget of the Year." Note that no one picks Time as "Magazine of the Year." They can call the Toyota Tundra the "Truck of the Year" but that doesn't mean it won't rust apart.

Who buys a phone based on what Time says? Time is the People Magazine for those who think they already know everything, and seek confirmation of their "intelligence."
post #171 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

lets see, the droid is estimated to have sold somewhere from 700-800k units in just November alone, at this rate it would best the original iPhone 2G during the 4th quarter which sold 1,119k units.

And you ignoring the smartphone bubble that was created by the iPhone entering the market. A category regulated to hardcore business users on one end and lonely geeks on the other end. Now we have an entire market in the US for consumer focused smartphones. Even while being trumped in sales other vendors of smartphones have seen an increase in interest since the iPhone’s inaugural debut. Then we have mobile OSes and HW vendors that have changed up their entire business model to compete with the iPhone’s newly created consumer market. It would be a complete failure if it didn’t outsell the original iPhone in the first quarter when you look at what has changed in that past 30 months.
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post #172 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

The original iPhone sales suffered from a number of factors, including tremendous trepidation over Apple being a newcomer to the cellular market, its [superior] touch screen and lack of physical keyboard, lack of 3G, and lack of subsidization [high price]. The Druid has none of these factors weighing against it--it fails on its own accord.

Wat? The initial launch of the 2G iphone suffered from the exorbitant high prices (it was like 499) They dropped the prices really fast after that they shaved off 200 bucks back in Sept 07.

Everything you listed other than lack of 3G and price had anything to do with my argument of the Droid vs iPhone in Q4 sales.

Your argument fails on its own accord.

Quadra that is the question if Droid can keep up the pace, im assuming they hit 2 mil and then it drops off around January/February when the new iPhone is announced and more Android phones like the the 1ghz HTC Passion come to Verizon as well as the Palm Pre and a beefed up Blackberry Tour.
post #173 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

The biggest thing I'd like Apple to take from a hardware stance is an improved screen. With all these OLED screen coming out at higher resolutions, the iPhone's starting to look grainy.

I'm confident we'll see OLED on Apple if/when OLED's performance/availability improve. Jobs' aesthetics will demand it.
post #174 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyler View Post

Who cares what Time says, they are utterly useless pos of a magazine which is going down in flames. They probably were paid off by Motorola and Verizon like all these other so called Top tens and the consumer reports which was also paid off by Verizon, these studies and top lists have nothing to do with anything anymore except money. What a bunch of BS!! Cannot wait for the day Time Magazine folds which should be soon!!!!


The iPhone is hands above the droid, can the droid do pinch and pull zoom, oh wait no. Can the droid take better photos than the iPhone, oh wait not even that. Can the droid break because of moving parts, oh yes. The droid is 2 years behind the iphone and is a hunk of metal crap that feels horrible in your hands. Whatever Time and other people say all I have to say is 100,000 droids sold on the first weekend and 1 million iPhone 3gs sold in one weekend, I guess consumers have spoken and what they say is the iPhone is the number one gadget for 2009 no matter what some stupid paid off magazine says!!!

The iPhone sold just as many droids did in the first weekend in the US in South Korea, what does that say?

I have no comment about what you think of Time.

But as for your comparisons of the Droid... Actually, yes it can do pinch/pull-zoom. Just not in the native apps. It has been shown that the various third-party apps (photo editors/viewers, browsers, etc) are able to do pinch/pull-zoom. The GSM version of the Droid, the Milestone, can do pinch/pull-zoom natively.

From the pictures I've seen of the two side-by-side, I'd have to say the 3GS is just barely better. But they're both just cell phone cameras. No way it's going to replace my stand-alone any time soon.

I agree on the mechanical breaking part. As bad as people say the keyboard is, it's not that horrbile (my opinion). But I have to give Motorola credit for being able to create a slider that's only a hair thicker than the iPhone. Just imagine how thin it would have been without the keyboard...

As for your numbers, it's actually closer to 250,000 Droids sold. And the 1 million mark is 3GS sales in 8 countries combined, so yes, it'll should be higher. Why wasn't the Droid sold in more countries at its initial launch? No idea. But I'm sure that if the Milestone (GSM) and Droid (CDMA) both sold at the same time, there would be much more than 250,000 sales. I'd be interested in seeing exactly how many sales the 3GS had for AT&T alone, as a better comparison.

It shows that South Korea likes the iPhone and the US loves the Droid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The question is whether Droid can maintain momentum long-term.

With the way Android is gaining in popularity in the industry, I'm willing to bet cash that the Droid line will have no problems keepings the momentum.
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post #175 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And you ignoring the smartphone bubble that was created by the iPhone entering the market. A category regulated to hardcore business users on one end and lonely geeks on the other end. Now we have an entire market in the US for consumer focused smartphones. Even while being trumped in sales other vendors of smartphones have seen an increase in interest since the iPhones inaugural debut.

I really just cant win an argument with you can I?

The smartphone was already trending towards consumers BEFORE the iPhone drop. Most analysts had this figured out already a year before the iphone dropped with RIM and Nokia dropping more consumer orientated devices in 07. The iPhone didnt change the dynamics of the smartphone market when it was already headed that way.
post #176 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

I really just cant win an argument with you can I?

The smartphone was already trending towards consumers BEFORE the iPhone drop. Most analysts had this figured out already a year before the iphone dropped with RIM and Nokia dropping more consumer orientated devices in 07. The iPhone didnt change the dynamics of the smartphone market when it was already headed that way.

Though it definitely did help accelerate the shift.
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post #177 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Wat? The initial launch of the 2G iphone suffered from the exorbitant high prices (it was like 499) They dropped the prices really fast after that they shaved off 200 bucks back in Sept 07.

The 4GB iPhone was $499, the 8GB model was $599. Their prices were reduced $200 roughly 6 weeks after launch. None of these prices are thought to have been subsidized by the carrier (AT&T), unlike the iPhone 3G, 3GS and the Druid.

The price was dropped when demand was seen to be far greater than expected--because for instance the iPhone worked far better than anyone would have expected from a first-timer like Apple--and when production could be ramped up.
post #178 of 257
Many think that the iPhone has reached it's limit in terms of innovation. Are you kidding me? Do you not live in the same universe I do? That is crazy talk!!

We are talking about one of the most innovative companies to have ever existed. Jobs and the crew I'm sure have something brewing in the deep, dark recesses of the Apple factory. I have no doubt that we will see some significant upgrades in the near future. Faster? yes, thinner? maybe, better camera? of course, larger screen? probably, upgrade to OSX both in features and look? you can bet on it. Apple isn't going to sit back and rest on their laurels. We should all know this by now...

Apple's least concern is what Time thinks of their iPhone.
post #179 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Why wasn't the Droid sold in more countries at its initial launch? No idea.

How about the fact that the Druid isn't a "world" phone. It uses CDMA, which is widely available only in the U.S. and Japan.
post #180 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

How about the fact that the Druid isn't a "world" phone. It uses CDMA, which is widely available only in the U.S. and Japan.

Which is why I brought up the Milestone, the GSM counterpart. Though I also would like to know why it wasn't GSM/CMDA phone too...
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post #181 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Though it definitely did help accelerate the shift.

Yes both the iPhone and Blackberry were becoming household names in 07, they helped accelerate the shift towards consumers buying smartphones. Its the reason quarter after quarter RIM and Apple keep closing in on Nokia and gaining even more marketshare
post #182 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

The 3GS was official way early this year (whenever Apple has their yearly announcement for stuff) compared to the Droid which was kinda murky until October/November (also known as the Sholes too) so comparatively the 3GS had a bigger head start for getting more stories thus hits on Google.

I really think if people took a step back and were objective they would easily find things they like and dislike about the phone if they used one. IF its enough to sway you to switch is only determined by you and your preferences ultimately. By far the best Android phone out thus far without a doubt.

You said "for 2009", so it is only natural to count all of it, but for fun I did a search including only results from the last week:

3gs - 50,800,000 hits
droid - 18,200,000 hits

Those numbers seem bigger than my last attempt, despite having a narrower field. Maybe I had missed a set of zeros or selected Canada only. Oh well.

I do agree that people should be objective about these things, but Apple Apple fanboys are not the only ones guilty of not being objective. The fact that you consider the 3gs to be merely a faster 3g makes me wonder.

I haven't had a chance to handle the Droid, but it does look like the best android phone thus far. I'm still happy with my 3gs.
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post #183 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

You said "for 2009", so it is only natural to count all of it, but for fun I did a search including only results from the last week:

3gs - 50,800,000 hits
droid - 18,200,000 hits

Those numbers seem bigger than my last attempt, despite having a narrower field. Maybe I had missed a set of zeros or selected Canada only. Oh well.

I do agree that people should be objective about these things, but Apple Apple fanboys are not the only ones guilty of not being objective. The fact that you consider the 3gs to be merely a faster 3g makes me wonder.

I haven't had a chance to handle the Droid, but it does look like the best android phone thus far. I'm still happy with my 3gs.

i only have 2 friends with a 3GS, ive used it sparingly and it is fast, but thats really all i see it offer, it still has the same terrible battery life. The camera is pretty good, never played with the video camera stuff. I havent used any 3GS specific apps other than the compass (waste of time) and the voice command which my old Curve from 07 had. The Speakerphone is a lot louder than the 3G. I know the things they added into it since i follow technology, but in seriousness if i were to describe the 3GS, its "faster with a better camera"

To play devils advocate, the Droid is only in the US the 3GS is worldwide and as such would include worldwide hits (not sure if Google filters that).
post #184 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

it still has the same terrible battery life.

Are you saying that the Droids battery is better than the 3GS in every area?
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post #185 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I have no comment about what you think of Time.

But as for your comparisons of the Droid... Actually, yes it can do pinch/pull-zoom. Just not in the native apps. It has been shown that the various third-party apps (photo editors/viewers, browsers, etc) are able to do pinch/pull-zoom. The GSM version of the Droid, the Milestone, can do pinch/pull-zoom natively.

From the pictures I've seen of the two side-by-side, I'd have to say the 3GS is just barely better. But they're both just cell phone cameras. No way it's going to replace my stand-alone any time soon.

I agree on the mechanical breaking part. As bad as people say the keyboard is, it's not that horrbile (my opinion). But I have to give Motorola credit for being able to create a slider that's only a hair thicker than the iPhone. Just imagine how thin it would have been without the keyboard...

As for your numbers, it's actually closer to 250,000 Droids sold. And the 1 million mark is 3GS sales in 8 countries combined, so yes, it'll should be higher. Why wasn't the Droid sold in more countries at its initial launch? No idea. But I'm sure that if the Milestone (GSM) and Droid (CDMA) both sold at the same time, there would be much more than 250,000 sales. I'd be interested in seeing exactly how many sales the 3GS had for AT&T alone, as a better comparison.

It shows that South Korea likes the iPhone and the US loves the Droid?



With the way Android is gaining in popularity in the industry, I'm willing to bet cash that the Droid line will have no problems keepings the momentum.

as it has been pointed out before, it is only sold in the US because motorola has no strategy other short-term coat-tailing on apple....meaning they can only run on the old technology of north america and the island of CDMA that only exists here. So they are permanently tied to Verizon sink or swim. They can not compete in the GLOBAL handset market, unlike the iphone/ATT which are based on larger global market strategy based on UMTS network. while motorola's strategy is more a stop-gap loss marketing strategy, but its only short-term and they are hoping the short-term hype with sell millions before someone actually uses an iphone.

Additionally the addition of hardware keyboard dooms its use to only english-speaking only countries, to of which there are few. The droid is not an iphone killer, its a motorola-saver
which will only last for a few months when the next iteration of the iphone will render it obsolete and another piece of old tech placed in a kitchen drawer next to the ROKR and RAZOR.
post #186 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I have no comment about what you think of Time.

But as for your comparisons of the Droid... Actually, yes it can do pinch/pull-zoom. Just not in the native apps. It has been shown that the various third-party apps (photo editors/viewers, browsers, etc) are able to do pinch/pull-zoom. The GSM version of the Droid, the Milestone, can do pinch/pull-zoom natively.

From the pictures I've seen of the two side-by-side, I'd have to say the 3GS is just barely better. But they're both just cell phone cameras. No way it's going to replace my stand-alone any time soon.

I agree on the mechanical breaking part. As bad as people say the keyboard is, it's not that horrbile (my opinion). But I have to give Motorola credit for being able to create a slider that's only a hair thicker than the iPhone. Just imagine how thin it would have been without the keyboard...

As for your numbers, it's actually closer to 250,000 Droids sold. And the 1 million mark is 3GS sales in 8 countries combined, so yes, it'll should be higher. Why wasn't the Droid sold in more countries at its initial launch? No idea. But I'm sure that if the Milestone (GSM) and Droid (CDMA) both sold at the same time, there would be much more than 250,000 sales. I'd be interested in seeing exactly how many sales the 3GS had for AT&T alone, as a better comparison.

It shows that South Korea likes the iPhone and the US loves the Droid?



With the way Android is gaining in popularity in the industry, I'm willing to bet cash that the Droid line will have no problems keepings the momentum.

as it has been pointed out before, it is only sold in the US because motorola has no strategy other short-term coat-tailing on apple....meaning they can only run on the old technology of north america and the island of CDMA that only exists here and the islands of japan. So they are permanently tied to Verizon sink or swim. They can not compete in the GLOBAL handset market, unlike the iphone/ATT which are based on larger global market strategy based on UMTS network. while motorola's strategy is more a stop-gap loss marketing strategy, but its only short-term and they are hoping the short-term hype with sell millions before someone actually uses an iphone.

Additionally the addition of hardware keyboard dooms its use to only english-speaking only countries, to of which there are few. The droid is not an iphone killer, its a motorola-saver
which will only last for a few months when the next iteration of the iphone will render it obsolete and another piece of old tech placed in a kitchen drawer next to the ROKR and RAZOR.
post #187 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

as it has been pointed out before, it is only sold in the US because motorola has no strategy other short-term coat-tailing on apple....meaning they can only run on the old technology of north america and the island of CDMA that only exists here. So they are permanently tied to Verizon sink or swim. They can not compete in the GLOBAL handset market, unlike the iphone/ATT which are based on larger global market strategy based on UMTS network. while motorola's strategy is more a stop-gap loss marketing strategy, but its only short-term and they are hoping the short-term hype with sell millions before someone actually uses an iphone.

Additionally the addition of hardware keyboard dooms its use to only english-speaking only countries, to of which there are few. The droid is not an iphone killer, its a motorola-saver
which will only last for a few months when the next iteration of the iphone will render it obsolete and another piece of old tech placed in a kitchen drawer next to the ROKR and RAZOR.

Ahh. Very interesting to know. In a way, this is also why I'm saving my upgrade on Verizon for the HTC models (Passion, if you still haven't gotten my hints ).

Though along with a lot of other people out there, I really am resisting the urge to bonk you with a foam bat for the use of "iPhone killer". As for your comment about rendering the Droid obsolete, the iPhone tech itself has been rendered "obsolete" many times over. It's the ecosystem that's keeping it alive. But Android, which is the real star here, will never be rendered obsolete.
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post #188 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Are you saying that the Droids battery is better than the 3GS in every area?

i havent used a droid for a more than a couple hours to compare that, but its decent when using the web.
post #189 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

as it has been pointed out before, it is only sold in the US because motorola has no strategy other short-term coat-tailing on apple....meaning they can only run on the old technology of north america and the island of CDMA that only exists here and the islands of japan. So they are permanently tied to Verizon sink or swim. They can not compete in the GLOBAL handset market, unlike the iphone/ATT which are based on larger global market strategy based on UMTS network. while motorola's strategy is more a stop-gap loss marketing strategy, but its only short-term and they are hoping the short-term hype with sell millions before someone actually uses an iphone.

Additionally the addition of hardware keyboard dooms its use to only english-speaking only countries, to of which there are few. The droid is not an iphone killer, its a motorola-saver
which will only last for a few months when the next iteration of the iphone will render it obsolete and another piece of old tech placed in a kitchen drawer next to the ROKR and RAZOR.

The Droid is called the Milestone outside the US, it uses all the UMTS goodness as well that the rest of the world does, the reasons its not included in the Droid is most likely due to wanting a cheaper chip for Moto.

BTW the keyboard plastic lettering piece is incredibly cheap to make your talking less than one dollar, they dont have to redesign the phone everytime they want to release to a different region but it does mean that phones made for that region (and thus specific keyboards) cant be sold in other areas.
post #190 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

The Droid is called the Milestone outside the US, it uses all the UMTS goodness as well that the rest of the world does, the reasons its not included in the Droid is most likely due to wanting a cheaper chip for Moto.

BTW the keyboard plastic lettering piece is incredibly cheap to make your talking less than one dollar, they dont have to redesign the phone everytime they want to release to a different region but it does mean that phones made for that region (and thus specific keyboards) cant be sold in other areas.

Not to mention that Motorola does have a UMTS version (Droid 2?) out there without a physical keyboard.

But then this issue can be solve by downloading a non-English virtual keyboard from the Marketplace. Yes, the Milestone's keyboard will then be dead weight, but no one said you absolutely had to use it...
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post #191 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Not to mention that Motorola does have a UMTS version (Droid 2?) out there without a physical keyboard.

But then this issue can be solve by downloading a non-English virtual keyboard from the Marketplace. Yes, the Milestone's keyboard will then be dead weight, but no one said you absolutely had to use it...

seems motorola really has no clue...
post #192 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

And Bush deserved it, don't lump him with the other criminals.

Bush and the Treasury created a wonderful real estate bubble that put a lot of people to work. Only fools didn't know what it was.

It was the Congress that changed hands under Bush and California (yea that bankrupt I.O.U giving California) liberal socialist ideals that got some banks AND the government controlled Freddie and Fannie into the failure of the sub-prime market in 2005. Their failure to adhere to the tried and true three rules of lending: Credit, Collateral and Character; is the primary reason our economy is in the mess that's it's in.

The Bush Treasury had to take control and fire the CEO's of both Freddie and Fannie, after repeatably warning the out of control new Congress about their "Socializing the risks and privatizing the profits" - Alan Greenspan to Congress, concerning the two GSE's. It's this stopping of their socialist "everyone has a right to own a house" ideals is the reason they blamed the Bush administration for the near worldwide economic collapse, when it really was their fault of irresponsible mandatory lending to the GSE's and banks under the Community Reinvestment Act revisions made by socialist Bill Clinton.


In a real estate bubble, it's speculative, a game of musical chairs, the last owning the property loses.

It's a game not for the working, struggling or the poor. But the Democratic controlled Congress made it so.

Conservative banks are doing fine today. The banks that managed to dump their toxic sub-prime mortgages before the bubble blew are also doing ok. Everyone who prepared for the downside are doing ok today.

Everyone who has taken even a entry level economics course in high school know what a post real estate bubble recession is. What made this one so much worse was the sub-prime.

Rich people usually only gamble with what they have extra, not their only house.

Where did the first and most banks fail than anywhere else? California.

Where the sub-prime lending mess started? California.

Where is the "home" of the liberal media empire? California.




Read Charles Gasperino's book: The Sellout. Explains who is responsible for making this mess worse than it is.

Glad to see some reasoned thought on the whole debate.

A couple of additions:
-it wasn't the CRA per se that lead to the crisis. It was the free reign and expansion of 'coverage' that was granted to FM in the late 90's by Clinton that created the incentive to invest in the subprime market. Subprime lending dates back to the 70's, with the advent (political) of 'red-lining'- this was and is the big housing entitlement push by the dems. Interestingly enough, it was Bush who read the writing on the wall as early as 2001, and had been trying to reign in FM/FM since then- 17 times alone in 2007. But of course the Dems in congress stone-walled him each time.

-as you've alluded to, the majority of the banking/investing companies had enough smarts to not invest in subprime lending/loans. Of those that did, the shadow banks (eg Lehman) carried most of the risk, but were also the most under-regulated or non-regulated (where was the SEC?). This is where the majority of the strife that hit Wall Street came from, and frankly, I'm glad that Lehman was let go. This is also why most investment firms continue to do well (read: Goldman).

The Obama lemmings will continue to blindly follow his pied-piperness, but I give him a lot of credit for continuing to blame the Bush admin for the state of the economy today- takes guts, but it's sad that he won't step up to the plate and admit his mistakes. He needs to stop the blame and do his job.

Interestingly enough, around October 2008, Time published an article listing those responsible for this economic mess. Bush was listed, but the reason was basically that he was there. No other reasons- this is especially telling since Time clearly leans left, and would be happy to find any reason at all to put Bush in the sewer.

Bottom line: everyone can't always get what they want, not now and not in the foreseeable future; and if people don't pay for something, they will abuse it. Until we start realizing these basic principles, we'll continue to provide handouts at the expense of those who work hard for what they have.
post #193 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

The Droid is called the Milestone outside the US, it uses all the UMTS goodness as well that the rest of the world does, the reasons its not included in the Droid is most likely due to wanting a cheaper chip for Moto.

BTW the keyboard plastic lettering piece is incredibly cheap to make your talking less than one dollar, they dont have to redesign the phone everytime they want to release to a different region but it does mean that phones made for that region (and thus specific keyboards) cant be sold in other areas.

make multiple pieces junk that runs a fractured OS, and one due to be released when the Google phone comes out, so developers will have to build at least 20+ different UI experiences and aesthetics for their apps, a phone you can not take outside the US, a keyboard that becomes useless in other countries....vs..

a phone that has a consistent UI experience, GUI experience, apps are consistently built to the same phone specs, a phone that can be used in the majority of global networks, updates that APPLY TO ALL PHONES, a virtual keyboard for most languages...

wow, motorola really knows what they are doing...
post #194 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Not to mention that Motorola does have a UMTS version (Droid 2?) out there without a physical keyboard.

But then this issue can be solve by downloading a non-English virtual keyboard from the Marketplace. Yes, the Milestone's keyboard will then be dead weight, but no one said you absolutely had to use it...

over going with a smarter and practical virtual keyboard, but with a dead keyboard on a piece of tech, you defend the wasted piece of cheap plastic that was supposed to be great and a feature that was supposed to be superior to the apple virtual keyboard....but claim its no biggie? I gather from your previous posts, you would not have such kind words for apple if the situation was reversed instead of seeing the enlightened way apple approached it..
post #195 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

The Droid is called the Milestone outside the US, it uses all the UMTS goodness as well that the rest of the world does, the reasons its not included in the Droid is most likely due to wanting a cheaper chip for Moto.

BTW the keyboard plastic lettering piece is incredibly cheap to make your talking less than one dollar, they dont have to redesign the phone everytime they want to release to a different region but it does mean that phones made for that region (and thus specific keyboards) cant be sold in other areas.

so making multiple pieces of junk to do the same thing...well thought out, its amazing motorola has been around for as long as it has...i hope they would disappear, I have had and never liked their clunky pieces of garbage....maybe their next incarnation will be wiser..
post #196 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

over going with a smarter and practical virtual keyboard, but with a dead keyboard on a piece of tech, you defend the wasted piece of cheap plastic that was supposed to be great and a feature that was supposed to be superior to the apple virtual keyboard....but claim its no biggie? I gather from your previous posts, you would not have such kind words for apple if the situation was reversed instead of seeing the enlightened way apple approached it..

Actually, I wouldn't attack Apple as bad as you're attacking Motorola. I would have prefered no physical keyboard, as it would have made the device slimmer, a la the HTC Passion (keyboard-less Droid, in my eyes).

I'm just answering with a solution to what you see as a problem. The device is already only a hair thicker than the iPhone, so it wouldn't be any worse off if you never touched the keyboard. To me, it's more of an option than anything to have the keyboard. I've used it and while it's not the most amazing thing out there, it's not unusable (at least to me) either.

I would be saying the exact same thing if it were the iPhone that had a physical keyboard that couldn't be used around the world. I would see it as an option and you again, would probably still be attacking me for holding that opinion.

But the question I ask you is what about RIM and their BlackBerries? They are used the world over in counties where English isn't the primary language. Yet I don't see them having an issue with having English physical keyboards...

And what about companies like HTC, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, etc that reside in countries that don't even use alpha-numeric characters as their primary language script? All their keyboarded phones are QWERTY. They all seem to be doing fine.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
Reply
post #197 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

make multiple pieces junk that runs a fractured OS, and one due to be released when the Google phone comes out, so developers will have to build at least 20+ different UI experiences and aesthetics for their apps, a phone you can not take outside the US, a keyboard that becomes useless in other countries....vs..

a phone that has a consistent UI experience, GUI experience, apps are consistently built to the same phone specs, a phone that can be used in the majority of global networks, updates that APPLY TO ALL PHONES, a virtual keyboard for most languages...

wow, motorola really knows what they are doing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

so making multiple pieces of junk to do the same thing...well thought out, its amazing motorola has been around for as long as it has...i hope they would disappear, I have had and never liked their clunky pieces of garbage....maybe their next incarnation will be wiser..

you seriously make me want to shoot you so you never have the chance to procreate and spread your stupidity, if your going to argue at least be logical.

The Android UI software is consistent across all devices, the MANUFACTURERS change them for their devices how they see fit, they could choose to add anything and take away anything they want. Fail 1

All apps run the same, the UI does not influence how the App runs whatsoever. Fail 2

Very few people would buy a Droid if they were looking for a WORLD PHONE, most people dont travel outside the US and something like 7% of US citizens own a passport. Fail 3

The Droid has a virtual Keyboard. Fail 4

Apps are developed to Android OS specs, meaning whatever the OS is the App will be supported by the phone running that OS. This is no different than not being able to run iLife on a computer that has Tiger on it. Fail 5
post #198 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

it still has the same terrible battery life.

I think one of the major upgrades we will see with the iPhone is the battery. Because of the major updates with the Macbook and Macbook Pro series concerning the battery, it makes sense the iPhone will eventually see the same treatment. As Apple is constructing their own battery, I can't help but think this will be improved drastically soon...
post #199 of 257
You guys are missing the point. one of the things that time mentioned that apple iphone does not do is free voice announce turn by turn directions. Free as in dont pay for it.
post #200 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Actually, I wouldn't attack Apple as bad as you're attacking Motorola. I would have prefered no physical keyboard, as it would have made the device slimmer, a la the HTC Passion (keyboard-less Droid, in my eyes).

I'm just answering with a solution to what you see as a problem. The device is already only a hair thicker than the iPhone, so it wouldn't be any worse off if you never touched the keyboard. To me, it's more of an option than anything to have the keyboard. I've used it and while it's not the most amazing thing out there, it's not unusable (at least to me) either.

I would be saying the exact same thing if it were the iPhone that had a physical keyboard that couldn't be used around the world. I would see it as an option and you again, would probably still be attacking me for holding that opinion.

But the question I ask you is what about RIM and their BlackBerries? They are used the world over in counties where English isn't the primary language. Yet I don't see them having an issue with having English physical keyboards...

And what about companies like HTC, Sony Ericsson, Samsung, etc that reside in countries that don't even use alpha-numeric characters as their primary language script? All their keyboarded phones are QWERTY. They all seem to be doing fine.

for the largest cell phone markets in the world...China and India? with a qwerty keyboard? honestly...BB only sells well because of the buy 1, get 1 free CDMA business model...

while the gimmick is good, but it wont sell in most non-english speaking countries with a UMTS cell network..
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