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Time Magazine ranks Motorola Droid above Apple iPhone for 2009 - Page 6

post #201 of 257
12/9/09 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

for the largest cell phone markets in the world...China and India? with a qwerty keyboard? honestly...BB only sells well because of the buy 1, get 1 free CDMA business model...

while the gimmick is good, but it wont sell in most non-english speaking countries with a UMTS cell network..

Without a doubt. RIM has been supported in those countries since 2006. It's now officially launching its full-fledged services in China, India, Russia, and a whole host of other countries. The Middle East where Arabic script (probably spelled that wrong) is predominate, has had RIM service for a while now.

RIM has UTMS-based, CDMA-based, and dual radio-based phones for each and every market there is on the face of the planet. And it sells well because it's the most secure way of communications businesses can buy. Not even the iPhone can touch a BlackBerry, yet, for this reason. It's catching up, but it's still got a lot of security holes to patch.

I think you're underestimating the education of the people in those countries. English is taught as a secondary language because it's used the world over. It's kind of become the "standard language", if you will. If you can afford the monthly service expense of a smartphone with a QWERTY keyboard, you'll have the education to recognize the English alphabet.
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post #202 of 257
12/9/09 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonlivy View Post

I think one of the major upgrades we will see with the iPhone is the battery. Because of the major updates with the Macbook and Macbook Pro series concerning the battery, it makes sense the iPhone will eventually see the same treatment. As Apple is constructing their own battery, I can't help but think this will be improved drastically soon...

i havent really heard anything about battery technology improving to be honest so if it does, it will need to have an efficient screen (i hear OLED is better at this) as well as more efficient chip for the new iphone.
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post #203 of 257
12/9/09 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

you seriously make me want to shoot you so you never have the chance to procreate and spread your stupidity, if your going to argue at least be logical.

The Android UI software is consistent across all devices, the MANUFACTURERS change them for their devices how they see fit, they could choose to add anything and take away anything they want. Fail 1

All apps run the same, the UI does not influence how the App runs whatsoever. Fail 2

Very few people would buy a Droid if they were looking for a WORLD PHONE, most people dont travel outside the US and something like 7% of US citizens own a passport. Fail 3

The Droid has a virtual Keyboard. Fail 4

Apps are developed to Android OS specs, meaning whatever the OS is the App will be supported by the phone running that OS. This is no different than not being able to run iLife on a computer that has Tiger on it. Fail 5

to which is no surprise....wow, you really dont read the news do you...

1. the android UI is not consistent across all devices and carriers....they customize each to each phone..

2. all apps do not run same because of native technical and carrier limitations...ask any developer

3. you missed the point again, and your ad hominem attacks only are there to mask your own shortcomings, if you have to build SEPARATE DEVICES FOR DIFFERENT COUNTIES MEANS INDUSTRIAL/PRODUCTION FAIL! Apple shows you can build a phone for the majority of consumers WORLDWIDE, and not just a little piece of land stuck between two bodies of water...

4. yeah your point is? so why need a physical keyboard if the virtual keyboard is so great and had to be added?

5. you do not develop anything as shown by your lack knowledge of UI/GUI. While a webpage can be viewed on multiple Operating systems on multiple browsers the UI and a consistent aesthetics have to programmed for EACH one...most developers only use the most popular ones, WHICH IS THE SAME PROBLEM THAT ANDROID APP DEVELOPERS ARE EXPERIENCING CURRENTLY.....

do you get it now, or do you really need to be spoon fed this MUCH?
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post #204 of 257
12/9/09 at 3:36pm
Did someone just say "you fail at life"??

LOL. I haven't really heard that one before. It's rather all-encompassing, that's for sure.
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post #205 of 257
12/9/09 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

I bought a 3GS and realised that other than a bit more speed i had just been sold the same phone. For 3 years in a row. Game changer? .

why didn't you research the phone more before you bought it? or like, use a display phone.

also if it helps, there's a new button on the home screen that lets you take moving pictures.
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post #206 of 257
12/9/09 at 3:40pm
I stopped my subscription to Time more than 15 years ago. So this is what they been up to?
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post #207 of 257
12/9/09 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Some here would disagree, but with the rise of Android, we're seeing the PC vs. Mac battle again. Except in the smartphone format. Yes, Google somehow replaced Microsoft here, but it is what it is...

The biggest thing I'd like Apple to take from a hardware stance is an improved screen. With all these OLED screen coming out at higher resolutions, the iPhone's starting to look grainy.

But I digress from the thread topic...

I've been precisely thinking that as well. We are in 100% agreement here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And you ignoring the smartphone bubble that was created by the iPhone entering the market. A category regulated to hardcore business users on one end and lonely geeks on the other end. Now we have an entire market in the US for consumer focused smartphones. Even while being trumped in sales other vendors of smartphones have seen an increase in interest since the iPhones inaugural debut. Then we have mobile OSes and HW vendors that have changed up their entire business model to compete with the iPhones newly created consumer market. It would be a complete failure if it didnt outsell the original iPhone in the first quarter when you look at what has changed in that past 30 months.

It's almost like saying now we have this entire space where people don't want to type in command line and instead want to use a graphical user interface. Apple had a huge lead back then and blew it as well.

The iPhone is a fantastic device. Jobs claimed it gave them a five year headstart. Instead it is more like 3.5. The Droid matches the iPhone PERIOD. Like many other platform wars, you can pick and choose one point and argue it to death but the overall advantage is gone. Droid has some apps and abilities that many Apple users SHOULD be desiring and the specs are fantastic. That doesn't mean that Apple can't answer. It just means they had better because the market is no longer catching up.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #208 of 257
12/9/09 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post

You guys are missing the point. one of the things that time mentioned that apple iphone does not do is free voice announce turn by turn directions. Free as in dont pay for it.

i don't think that was the point of anything.

i mean. it's definitely a facet. but it's not the whole point of anything. unless you intended to quote something in particular.
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post #209 of 257
12/9/09 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

One of the few posts on this topic that makes sense. I agree and hope this spurs Apple into making iPhone version 4 an even better product.

Your logic is broke, I'll fix it for you.

Innovation spurs Apple into creating the iPhone. They created the iPhone to compete with pre-historic cell phones and the glorified pager known as the Blackberry. They did something very different and distinct. Competition is not just doing the same thing after the fact and worse. That's called sucking, regardless of the economic context. Lot's of sucking going on these days. Calling it "competition" is a pedestrian misclassification.

Google deserves no points for Android, they are merely trying to ride the iPhone bandwagon, copy Apple wholesale and maybe create a 'hard, tangible' product line for their company. They are a telemarketing firm, whose value is precariously perched on their ability to remain the top search engine. It's plain to see that Google is in a panic trying to create (steal) product. First a bad iPhone OS knockoff, next is the Chrome OS - if by OS you mean - a website with java-script. They are a huge, but corporately handicapped company.

Motorola can only hope for somebody like Google to solve their problem - they almost completely lack os and software design talent and experience. Thinking of 'stuff' and making it work, is not a problem Apple has, plus manufacturing is no longer tied to any one conglomerate.

Of course the rubes will hee & haw over over "Google" innovations. They aren't even original in their core business. There is little "competition" Google can offer Apple.
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post #210 of 257
12/9/09 at 6:30pm
I've been reserving my judgement until I could actually use the Droid. Now that I have, I can honestly share my perceptions.

The Droid is ok. If it had come out before the iPhone, we would probably all be praising it as "the best thing since sliced bread." However, the iPhone came before, and is still the Gold standard.

The Droid has all the shortcomings of the other Android phones. The interface is interesting and has some neat features, but it's not really clean - I found it quite convoluted and a pain to use. It's just not intuitive. Menu driven commands and choices are just a plain bad idea on devices this size.

Droid also has the same problems as others of similar physical design - teeny tiny physical keyboards just plain stink, sorry, it's true. And sliders are bulky and bind up over time. It is also not aesthetically pleasing, which is more than just looks, but practical as well - iPhone's rounded corners and smooth surfaces bode well for usage, countless kinds of cases, and peripheral connectivity, docks & adapters. Not so for Droid.

The Droid has two things going for it. 1. Marketing. It's getting all the buzz. I teach, and the teens are all talking Droid. 2. The screen. The resolution on a screen that size is incredible!! Text is so sharp it looks like print. The quality is so good, it is usable as an eBook reader - the text looked better than what I've seen on a kindle (1st gen). Images are also spectacular.

There is one more thing I noticed about the Droid - streamed video across the internet is higher quality on the Droid.

Apple will need to step it up a bit for the next iPhone, but in relation to the Droid, the only thing Apple would absolutely need to do is match the screen res/quality, and step up the marketing to show more than just games - teens care about the social scene - texting, mms, social networks; and businesses care about what a device can do to make them more productive.
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post #211 of 257
12/9/09 at 6:36pm
all of this bickering is just comparing very different ideologies.

The whoe argument seems to come down to if you prefer software elegance or hardware specs. When I was younger I crooned over new hardware. Years of experience has taught me to appreciate when decent hardware is run effectively.

Android is a better than decent OS just as the iPhone 3gs is better than decent hardware. The iPhones software is sex, and 5 years ago I woulda thought the same of droids specs.

Same with the network. Verizon gives you service more places, but it's slower. It'll drop more calls (except in NY and San Fran), but make more connections. AT&T will drop fewer calls and run generally much faster, but less populated areas will just be dead zones.
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post #212 of 257
12/9/09 at 8:15pm
Ha! 233 comments just on a board that is not even related to Time Inc..

Time has achieved exactly what they wanted with that article.
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post #213 of 257
12/9/09 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

I like the idea that the Droid appeals to REAL MEN and solves their needs.

MT, i can't tell whether you forgot to put the (sarcasm) memo in brackets, or really didn't mean to.

If you're serious, I don't want to browbeat you. Rather, I'd like to ask you simply to elaborate on what you perceive to be the needs of REAL MEN that are met by the Droid and not the iPhone. I'm sincere with the question.
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post #214 of 257
12/9/09 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoc View Post

... Time clearly leans left...

say what? you can't say that without ignoring or discounting liberal publications and liberal thought. all too often people position mainstream media as being "left" of center without acknowledging the true span of ideologies from far left to far right.
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post #215 of 257
12/9/09 at 8:30pm
No wonder the Times profits keep on slipping, slipping, slipping.
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post #216 of 257
12/9/09 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

... something like 7% of US citizens own a passport. Fail 3...

i wondered, so googled a little. I found this:

"The Economist has a subscriber-only article that states 34% of Americans over the age of 18 own passports, but cites no source for this"

and this:

"... Assuming that everyone who’s been issued a passport over the last ten years still has it, that’s 60,884,784 people with US passports. Given the US population is around 280 million, that gives us 21.7 per cent owning passports. Taking into account some of these will be five year passports, we have a figure that’s probably a little under 20 per cent..."

and this, from a 2005 Canada Tourism Commission research report ‘The Potential Impact of a Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative Passport Requirement on Canada’s Tourism Industry’ based on “household surveys” in Canada and the US:

Survey Results, general population (18 years and over), United States 34%, Canada 41%
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post #217 of 257
12/9/09 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

This Time ranking is inexplicable. The 3GS is head and shoulders above the Droid in everything, you can't even compare the OS of the two devices, Droid is so far behind. And then there's the App Store, etc.

In many respects, the Android was better than the iPhone a year ago. But G1's hardware let it down (although it was good enough for me to switch from the iPhone). With the Droid, Android has decent hardware to make a winning combination. The iPhone is slicker over all, is a better media device and has better games. On every thing else, at the moment, Droid has left the iPhone far behind - in just one year. With even better hardware coming up next year, it's going to be difficult for Apple to maintain the current gap in both perception and sales.
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post #218 of 257
12/9/09 at 9:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Which is why I brought up the Milestone, the GSM counterpart. Though I also would like to know why it wasn't GSM/CMDA phone too...

Probably because it would be too expensive, incompatible with the form factor, too power hungry, and/or Andruid isn't up to it yet.
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post #219 of 257
12/9/09 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Yeah grabbing a quote from 1943 in regard to technology. That sounds about right for you.

I see an iMac in every consumers home in the next few years. Steve Jobs. 1984
the mostly ended up in asstitants desktops for graphics and studios. Even today it's less than 10%. Just saying.

Peace.
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post #220 of 257
12/9/09 at 9:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Which is why I brought up the Milestone, the GSM counterpart. Though I also would like to know why it wasn't GSM/CMDA phone too...

That is something that rarely gets asked. If these hybrid chips are so great then why do vendors with the same device, usually only differing in their GSM or CDMA components, not using these Qualcomm chips?
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post #221 of 257
12/9/09 at 9:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

They are talking about the Droid hardware not the Verizon or ATT network. Most users could care less about simultaneous voice and data, its just become a pathetic talking point for ATT users. Verizons network blows away ATT.

I care emensley, being able to colaborate by phone while looking up directions or remoting into a server is a feature I've used many times.

As for the article, what crappy review points, what a weak argument! New hardware is always going to boast greater speeds & is a worthless review point unless the phone was new but failed to have faster hardware than the competition.

Having personally had my hands on the droid I can't believe it's gotten all the hype it has. The responsiveness was crap. The one feature I've heard everyone talk about is google navigation, but it is also in development for the iPhone so big whoop.
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post #222 of 257
12/9/09 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

The iPhone has reached its peak. There isn't anything major that can be added to the iPhone at this point. Sorry but there are no "game changers" as you like to put it.

Wow, your not friends with Ballmer are you?
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post #223 of 257
12/9/09 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asherian View Post

I don't think you get it. They're talking about what's new and exciting in the world, that's the entire point of their "Top 10 of Everything" series. I've got the iPhone 3GS and I love it, but they're very much correct in that it's more or less the same thing we've used for years. There's a lot that's new and exciting about Droid, even if you seem to think it's terrible (which I certainly do not). It made #1 because it made waves in the market, not because it's the "best phone".

The iPhone 3GS is the iPhone 3G with under under the hood tweaks. The Droid is all-new. It should not surprise anyone that it tops the iPhone in a "top X of 2009" list. Books from 2007/2008 may still be great, but they don't make the top of the Top 10 Books of 2009 list when a new edition is released.

It made #1 because they marketed the crap out of it. iPhone nothing new?! How about being unparalleled as a touchscreen phone? How about being able to purchase apps & music right over my phone & have them sync back to my laptop? There are so many things abou the iPhone that are not like other phones & features that others still have not been able to compete with. Sorry, but the arguments are weak.
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post #224 of 257
12/9/09 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

for the largest cell phone markets in the world...China and India? with a qwerty keyboard? honestly...BB only sells well because of the buy 1, get 1 free CDMA business model...

while the gimmick is good, but it wont sell in most non-english speaking countries with a UMTS cell network..

Oh, just to let you know. Those two countries you picked, ironically, are probably one of the best two examples of why you're wrong. Anyone who's taken World History, from junior high and above, know that India and China (specifically Hong Kong) have been influenced by the British Empire since at least the 16th century. There are probably as many, if not more, English speakers in those two countries than all of the US. The English alphabet is no new thing to them. It's even an official language in India. How do I know, you may ask? Easy. I was born in China and went through the early school system there. I started learning English at a very early age. Like I said, if you can afford to pay for a smartphone, QWERTY is no problem.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B83XH20091209

http://in.blackberry.com/devices/bla...wheretobuy.jsp

If you follow any of those links to carriers in India, you'll see that everything's in English and all the pictures of the BlackBerries have QWERTY keyboards.

As for your BOGO comment, that has absolutely no influence on whether the BlackBerry is CMDA or UMTS. It's an offer created by the carrier for the sole purpose of selling more subscriptions. Verizon does the BOGO and AT&T does a 50% deal, which is essentially the same thing. BlackBerries come in UMTS, CDMA and dual-radio models, so it doesn't matter what the native network of a country is based on. If China Mobile wanted to do a 50% off or BOGO offer, they absolutely can. If Aircel in India wanted to do a similar offer, there's nothing stopping them either. There goes your BOGO won't work on a UMTS network argument.

Game. Set. Match? I do believe so.
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post #225 of 257
12/9/09 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

Yesterday I had to prove to my roommate on BB on the Tmobile network that you can not do simultaneous data and voice, he thought and swore he had before. But first I called him while he surfed and it went to straight to voicemail....then he called me and tried to surf and DENIED!....

I have no idea why the BB wouldn't do that. I can do it on the G1 on T-mobile. And the GSM version of the Droid would be able to do it as well. Having said that, I have never ever had to use this feature. It just takes too long to have to get on the net to get some info. About the only time that I have had to look up any info, it's been local (like contacts). There are far more useful features like background synching of calendar/contacts without having to pay $100 for mobile me.
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post #226 of 257
12/9/09 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

I have no idea why the BB wouldn't do that. I can do it on the G1 on T-mobile. And the GSM version of the Droid would be able to do it as well. Having said that, I have never ever had to use this feature. It just takes too long to have to get on the net to get some info. About the only time that I have had to look up any info, it's been local (like contacts). There are far more useful features like background synching of calendar/contacts without having to pay $100 for mobile me.

If its on T-Mo EDGE then it would go to VM. Plus, I think the phone itself has to be able to support it, not just the network.
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post #227 of 257
12/9/09 at 10:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Probably because it would be too expensive, incompatible with the form factor, too power hungry, and/or Andruid isn't up to it yet.

I'm going to guess that it might have been the first reason, at least in the case of Motorola. I don't think they've ever built a dual-radio phone before.

It shouldn't be a power issue because my Storm has the same capacity battery as the Droid and it does just fine having dual radios in it. I took it throughout Greece, with two lay-overs, in London and it breezed through each day on a UMTS network with no difference in battery performance. The radio that's not being used is switched off.

Form factor shouldn't be an issue, since if all the components can find on my BlackBerry, it should have no issues fitting on the larger Droid board. Their just tiny chips.

We know Android is currently running on both CDMA- and UMTS-based networks, so the code knows how to handle both.
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post #228 of 257
12/10/09 at 12:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Apple makes it very easy, I'm afraid. Yes, they're just that good. And we revel in it. It's best to just join in the fun.


I thought the purpose was to speculate on rumours surrounding Apple, which I am interested in and why I started coming here - not to blindly hype every product. Silly me, must be that UK "real news" thing.
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post #229 of 257
12/10/09 at 12:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Same magazine who sat around while Bush fooled his own country.

You said it, bro'! :\
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post #230 of 257
12/10/09 at 4:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

They are talking about the Droid hardware not the Verizon or ATT network. Most users could care less about simultaneous voice and data, its just become a pathetic talking point for ATT users. Verizons network blows away ATT.

Verizon's network may be considerably better for a small portion of people, but not the majority of AT&T users. Most would think VZ & AT&T are the same, or Verizon's is slightly better. If Verizon's network blows AT&T's away, then why does AT&T almost have the same number of customers? AT&T was larger than Verizon until this year, when VZ bought Alltel which had almost 15M subs. If Verizon were so much better, then people would be leaving AT&T and going to Verizon in droves. However, AT&T attracting more new customers than VZ. Granted, that's mostly due to the iPhone.

In some places, Verizon is much better, others AT&T is better. But for the near majority of places, both are about equal. In sum, Verizon has an edge since its rural coverage is more extensive and doesn't have a few isolated trouble spots AT&T has due to the iPhone.

For me, AT&T is much better than Verizon, because AT&T's 3G network is 3x faster, and where I live, it will be 6x faster by middle of next year (couple years Verizon will shoot past) Everywhere I travel to, my service on AT&T has been totally fine.

I agree that most users could care less about simultaneous Voice + Data, how many actually use both at same time? And of those people, how often do they access data when on a call? So, it really only appeals to a very small amount of people. But it is really nice to have. But, probably less than 20% of US population, does it matter that Verizon's 3G coverage is more ubiquitous.
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post #231 of 257
12/10/09 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

This is just utter, raving, lunatic nonsense.

It never ceases to amaze me how people in general can have reasonable intelligent arguments about technology, and then when politics comes up they start frothing at the mouth like moronic three year olds.

Unless you are Rush Limbaugh in real life, ... you have been brainwashed.


Read the facts and think for yourself, not just what MSNBC (or even Fox) tells you how to think.

And I didn't bring up the politics.


And I got a huge warning, the unemployment level is going to jump back up the first of the year.

Give yourself a cookie for figuring out why and welcome to my camp.
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #232 of 257
12/10/09 at 6:46am
It is called the "Top Ten Gadgets of 2009", not 2007. If you look at the other stuff on the list, obviously they're looking for what is new and innovative -- not necessarily what is most popular and/or practical.

I think they spelled it out very clearly in the comments -- the 2009 iPhone 3GS is essentially the 2008 iPhone 3G plus speed and some other minor tweaks. In the world of gadgets where everything is constantly getting faster, for 2009 that is a major <<Yawn>>...

"Yeah, but my iPhone will..." That's great. Best UI, app store, iTunes, sexy design, whatever... those made it a great gadget in 2007 and 2008. What's new for 2009? The automobile and DVD player are great gadgets, but who cares about seeing them on a 2009 top gadget list?

Everyone seemed to miss the Time "Best Travel Gadgets of 2009" which listed the Droid as 13, iPod Touch as 16, and snubbed the iPhone completely from the list. Cue the AI article full of outrage...

In the end, it's a subjective list of gadgets in a dying magazine. I could care less about a bladeless fan that sells for $300, a 3D camera, or a THX-certified TV. Aside from the Droid and iPhone, I wouldn't buy any of the junk on that list.

I've never looked at a gadget list and gone out and bought something just because I saw it on that list. Most people glance over it, think "hmmm, that's interesting", and move on.
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post #233 of 257
12/10/09 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

i wondered, so googled a little. I found this:

"The Economist has a subscriber-only article that states 34% of Americans over the age of 18 own passports, but cites no source for this"

and this:

"... Assuming that everyone whos been issued a passport over the last ten years still has it, thats 60,884,784 people with US passports. Given the US population is around 280 million, that gives us 21.7 per cent owning passports. Taking into account some of these will be five year passports, we have a figure thats probably a little under 20 per cent..."

and this, from a 2005 Canada Tourism Commission research report The Potential Impact of a Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative Passport Requirement on Canadas Tourism Industry based on household surveys in Canada and the US:

Survey Results, general population (18 years and over), United States 34%, Canada 41%

with your facts and research.. iFail is the appropriate name for someone who just spits outs rhetoric to prove their misinformed point of view, which is not based in reality
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post #234 of 257
12/10/09 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

with your facts and research.. iFail is the appropriate name for someone who just spits outs rhetoric to prove their misinformed point of view, which is not based in reality

Umm... Read my last two posts on your comments about RIM and China and India and the QWERTY keyboard. You're not completely innocent of what you say above yourself.
\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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\Apple has always had competition. It's just been in its blind spot.
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post #235 of 257
12/10/09 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoc View Post

Glad to see some reasoned thought on the whole debate.

A couple of additions:
-it wasn't the CRA per se that lead to the crisis. It was the free reign and expansion of 'coverage' that was granted to FM in the late 90's by Clinton that created the incentive to invest in the subprime market. Subprime lending dates back to the 70's, with the advent (political) of 'red-lining'- this was and is the big housing entitlement push by the dems. Interestingly enough, it was Bush who read the writing on the wall as early as 2001, and had been trying to reign in FM/FM since then- 17 times alone in 2007. But of course the Dems in congress stone-walled him each time.

-as you've alluded to, the majority of the banking/investing companies had enough smarts to not invest in subprime lending/loans. Of those that did, the shadow banks (eg Lehman) carried most of the risk, but were also the most under-regulated or non-regulated (where was the SEC?). This is where the majority of the strife that hit Wall Street came from, and frankly, I'm glad that Lehman was let go. This is also why most investment firms continue to do well (read: Goldman).

The Obama lemmings will continue to blindly follow his pied-piperness, but I give him a lot of credit for continuing to blame the Bush admin for the state of the economy today- takes guts, but it's sad that he won't step up to the plate and admit his mistakes. He needs to stop the blame and do his job.

Interestingly enough, around October 2008, Time published an article listing those responsible for this economic mess. Bush was listed, but the reason was basically that he was there. No other reasons- this is especially telling since Time clearly leans left, and would be happy to find any reason at all to put Bush in the sewer.

Bottom line: everyone can't always get what they want, not now and not in the foreseeable future; and if people don't pay for something, they will abuse it. Until we start realizing these basic principles, we'll continue to provide handouts at the expense of those who work hard for what they have.



I hear you there! Welcome to the boards by the way.


The original intentions of the CRA written before Bill Clinton were honest in my opinion if it was intended to right a wrong and only a few banks existed and could cherry pick their customers. But today banks and lending institutions are plentiful, so the law is really not needed now, but then it was used as a leverage to force banks into irresponsible lending practices with the government taking the risk. Socialism.

Now they want to take over health care with a estimated 20% payroll tax (it's really open ended) after they screwed up sub-prime and ripped off millions of the poor of their hard earned down payments, improvements etc. Not only that, all of us have to pay for the declining value of the dollar in the world, meaning inflation will hit hard this year and perhaps not be as easily controlled as it was earlier as the rest of the world is going to influence not just the Fed lending rate.

Prices and unemployment will rise early next year, it's clear as day.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #236 of 257
12/10/09 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

Hey now! Don't be dissing my white iPhone!


White! Yikes!

"Fling it sister!"

</>impersonation
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #237 of 257
12/10/09 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

And Bush deserved it, don't lump him with the other criminals.

Bush and the Treasury created a wonderful real estate bubble that put a lot of people to work. Only fools didn't know what it was.

It was the Congress that changed hands under Bush and California (yea that bankrupt I.O.U giving California) liberal socialist ideals that got some banks AND the government controlled Freddie and Fannie into the failure of the sub-prime market in 2005. Their failure to adhere to the tried and true three rules of lending: Credit, Collateral and Character; is the primary reason our economy is in the mess that's it's in.



ummmm....wrong forum???


Tell that to the original poster I was responding too.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #238 of 257
12/10/09 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by syvalley View Post

Hitler was TIME Magazine's Man Of The Year in 1938. Stalin was TIME Magazine's Man Of The Year for 1939 and 1942. George W. Bush was also picked twice, 2000 & 2004.

That doesn't mean they liked these guys - it means they were the people who had the most impact. And that was certainly accurate.
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post #239 of 257
12/10/09 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post

why didn't you research the phone more before you bought it? or like, use a display phone.

also if it helps, there's a new button on the home screen that lets you take moving pictures.

I had an iPhone from launch to until I bought the 3GS. I know what I was buying, and all it was was hype. The previous two phones were excellent, and the 3GS is a good phone, but not a step forward.

My God! moving pictures, like you mean video? That just proves my earlier post, it was being done years before, yet you all soak it up like it's a revolution.

I see a lot of people here dismissing the multi-tasking argument. It is a step forward, and no, the iphone does NOT multi task. I don't mean having 15 different applications open, if you need that go home and turn on your computer. Here is an example - I was browsing eBay on my Palm Pre, and I saw a listing that I wanted to set an alarm for so I would remember to dive in for a bid at the death. I checked the time on the screen and went out and set the alarm. I then flicked back and continued reading the listing, making sure it was worth a bid. Simple, and far more useful than what its given credit for. Can the 3rd gen iPhone do that simple task? No, it cant. If I come out i"m back at my bookmarks and starting the whole browsing process back over again. Little things, but on here you are all so bloody blind you will never admit it. "I can listen to music while I browse the web". Can you reply to a mail while you watch a film? Or even a text?
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post #240 of 257
12/10/09 at 11:22am
You mean like syncing your iPhone to Google for free, instead?

Done by ticking a box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by os2baba View Post

There are far more useful features like background synching of calendar/contacts without having to pay $100 for mobile me.

As far as "no difference" you obviously no nothing about hardware, CPU's, graphics chips etc.

Yes, after you set the time on your alarm you go back to exactly where you left off in Safari, if you are reading through a column you open at the same place.

The "multitasking myth" is one of the most hyped things of all time among iPhone detractors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

I had an iPhone from launch to until I bought the 3GS. I know what I was buying, and all it was was hype. The previous two phones were excellent, and the 3GS is a good phone, but not a step forward.

My God! moving pictures, like you mean video? That just proves my earlier post, it was being done years before, yet you all soak it up like it's a revolution.

I see a lot of people here dismissing the multi-tasking argument. It is a step forward, and no, the iphone does NOT multi task. I don't mean having 15 different applications open, if you need that go home and turn on your computer. Here is an example - I was browsing eBay on my Palm Pre, and I saw a listing that I wanted to set an alarm for so I would remember to dive in for a bid at the death. I checked the time on the screen and went out and set the alarm. I then flicked back and continued reading the listing, making sure it was worth a bid. Simple, and far more useful than what its given credit for. Can the 3rd gen iPhone do that simple task? No, it cant. If I come out i"m back at my bookmarks and starting the whole browsing process back over again. Little things, but on here you are all so bloody blind you will never admit it. "I can listen to music while I browse the web". Can you reply to a mail while you watch a film? Or even a text?

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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