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AT&T warns of coming clamp-down on iPhone data hogs - Page 5

post #161 of 214
12/9/09 at 7:31pm
I'm sure AT&T realizes that there will ALWAYS be a top 3% of users who abuse the system. They realize it very well, as they will always have users who use more data than everyone else. That's the beauty of percentages.

When a phone can easily attain 2000-3000 kb/s, a 5 GB limit is unrealistic to say the least. I also suspect a lot of this network traffic will disappear when Verizon gets their iPhone. Many people unhappy with AT&T will jump ship and reduce the load significantly.

This is just another money grab from a cell provider. The state of US broadband and cell providers is pathetic with little or no competition and overpriced internet access.

You can get 100 MB/s overseas (and faster) for far less than the typical cost of .5-10 MB's you get here in theUS. What's wrong with this picture?
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post #162 of 214
12/9/09 at 7:40pm
So does that mean I can pay less for using less than average data? I hate paying $30/month for a few MBs.
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post #163 of 214
12/9/09 at 8:48pm
They should probably define "Data Hog" a bit more clearly... would help put things into perspective for average users.
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post #164 of 214
12/9/09 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I expect them to honor the contract they signed. If they cannot, I expect rescission and damages.

Good luck with that.
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post #165 of 214
12/9/09 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretbenz View Post

....unlimited not mean unlimited? Don't offer an unlimited plan and then cry when people use as much as they can. Fix your network AT&T, don't blame your customers for your own problem. We pay you a premium for our phone service and data use, you should give us a premium service, PERIOD.

agreed!
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post #166 of 214
12/9/09 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I expect them to honor the contract they signed. If they cannot, I expect rescission and damages.

The contract you signed.
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post #167 of 214
12/10/09 at 4:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post

It's super easy to be a bandwidth hog. For example lets say you enjoy pandora while at work. Here's a simple scenario that involves nothing but pandora:

Streaming Pandora at: 128 kbps

16,000 bytes per second

960,000 bytes per minute

57,000,000 bytes per hour (~57meg)

Assuming that you listen when you are at work:

9,216,000,000 bytes per month (based on 160 hours of work per month)

So you have used almost 10 gig of your infinity of bandwidth your contract says you can have.
That's without a single e-mail, web page, youtube video etc.
5 gig a month is easy even without tethering. So don't blame the jailbroken.


Sheldon

I don't consider that to be "data" usage any more than watching TV for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. My guess is wireless broadband providers don't consider that as data, either.

The whole internet and connectivity world we're living in is going to eventually force some solid definitions of "what's what" to emerge. Without that there will be increasing confusion over what is acceptable and unacceptable use of services. The first salvo in the debate was over TiVO vs DVR but when we get to wireless (where ultimate bandwidth really is limited) it's just going to intensify.
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post #168 of 214
12/10/09 at 4:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by williado21 View Post

Tiered data pricing NOW! Tiered data pricing NOW! The $30 unlimited data plan is what is keeping me from getting an iPhone...Let ME be in control of how much bandwith I use and give me a fair price to reflect that...

That's what Softbank is doing here in Japan. Basically you pay for what you use.
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post #169 of 214
12/10/09 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

That's what Softbank is doing here in Japan. Basically you pay for what you use.

Yes, but US providers have a history of going overboard (10 cents a kilobyte anyone? how about 20 cents for each additional text over your limit?). I have no doubt if they did such a plan, it would end up gouging someone who went 'over' their plan. Do you really trust AT&T to be fair about overage charges? Really?

AT&T just needs to buck up and fix their network. They were given billions of taxpayer money to do so already. We shouldn't even be having this sort of discussion.
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post #170 of 214
12/10/09 at 6:14am
A massive increase in free AT&T wi-fi hot spots would help reduce 3G burdens in cities. Having said that the worst service I experience is not due to usage hogs rather lack of towers ... in rural northern New Hampshire and Vermont you are lucky to get a single bar of Edge! I know, I know it's those pesky mountains
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post #171 of 214
12/10/09 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by S8ER01Z View Post

Quad Cities (Davenport, IA Region).... If I was anywhere else in Iowa I wouldn't have 3G at all.

Can I give my 'unlimited' bandwidth to someone else? maybe they can use it?

S8ER01Z

Why you selfish hog.

Declining crime. Clear blue skies. Canadian accent. And every year, you get to have your swimming pools filled with fresh spring water whether you like it or not.

But seriously, I empathize with your struggle with your iPhone.

It seems that there are a lot of cell towers to call from, but they are not AT&T's (or Verizon's at that matter) and 3G is just a promise in the wind.

Looking closely, but with limited information, it appears that population and more important, it in combination to which carrier got there first, has guided 'how important' Davenport is in the upgrade schedule.

Hopefully, you will get the service as you have been promised soon.

Note I have the luxury of being a Canadian (Toronto), having an iPhone via Rogers, high speed connections, virtually no dropped calls (which if any, a soft reset corrected) and a limited 6G data plan that more than covers my average 200-350 MBs usage a month. And because my plan is limited, it allows me to draw from my data plan to tether. And it cost $73 CDN a month.

May I suggest to everybody that comments on their service, to post their locale/provider. That way, it would help to identify and put the services, good or bad, in their proper perspective. Otherwise, it is like pissing in the wind.

iPhone 3G; Toronto; Rogers
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post #172 of 214
12/10/09 at 7:13am
They pump all these services out and then they get upset when you use them. The tech industry is like no other in history. We basically pay to beta test their crappy half finished products and then they see how much they can bleed us on top of that.
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post #173 of 214
12/10/09 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post

They pump all these services out and then they get upset when you use them. The tech industry is like no other in history. We basically pay to beta test their crappy half finished products and then they see how much they can bleed us on top of that.

But isn't that only partially true? In some respects, this whole unlimited wireless issue is like saying we won't have a speed limit on go karts at the track. Next year someone shows up with a go kart that does 100 mph and the track says "well, we do need speed limits after all". It's not exactly bait-and-switch as some have suggested AT&T is threatening.
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post #174 of 214
12/10/09 at 7:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

But isn't that only partially true? In some respects, this whole unlimited wireless issue is like saying we won't have a speed limit on go karts at the track. Next year someone shows up with a go kart that does 100 mph and the track says "well, we do need speed limits after all". It's not exactly bait-and-switch as some have suggested AT&T is threatening.

This doesn't really have anything to do with speed. It's about total usage (data consumed). AT&T's problem is that they sold an 'unlimited plan' and are now trying to place limits on it.
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post #175 of 214
12/10/09 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

This doesn't really have anything to do with speed. It's about total usage (data consumed). AT&T's problem is that they sold an 'unlimited plan' and are now trying to place limits on it.

Kind of like a restaurant with 'all you can eat ribs night' telling you half way through your meal they under estimated the demand so your were now going to get a bill for all the ribs you have had over the normal menu's four ribs.
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post #176 of 214
12/10/09 at 8:03am
Just to let people know.

My 'Pay As You Go' phone uses AT&T networks and I've seen now that they are charging me for INCOMING CALLS as well as outgoing.

So now my cheap $15 a month phone (I fish so I need a disposable phone) has skyrocketed, so it's got to be AT&T bleeding everyone, including other phone services.


Expect price increases early next year and as contracts expire.

It's most likely people are cutting off their expensive cells en-massé, just like they did with their health care and other expenses, so that means less customers and AT&T needing higher margins per customer. Which in turn will force more people off.

AT&T should have built a fat pipe, then grow into it. Not piddly upgrades.
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post #177 of 214
12/10/09 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Kind of like a restaurant with 'all you can eat ribs night' telling you half way through your meal they under estimated the demand so your were now going to get a bill for all the ribs you have had over the normal menu's four ribs.

Beautiful analogy
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post #178 of 214
12/10/09 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Kind of like a restaurant with 'all you can eat ribs night' telling you half way through your meal they under estimated the demand so your were now going to get a bill for all the ribs you have had over the normal menu's four ribs.

And you have evidence that this has happened?

How about, 'Kind of like a family that buys a house next door to the airport then demands they curtail the flights to reduce noise.

Or the guest that comes to dinner at your home and criticizes the offerings.

Or the guy that joins a club/forum and continually post innuendoes on everything or anybody ever said.

I would suggest you read your contract. Both you and the service have rights. It is when it comes to renewal that the offering can be change. And most find that even so, much of it is still negotiable.
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post #179 of 214
12/10/09 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

And you have evidence that this has happened?

Actually I've heard news reports of restaurants asking people to leave when they 'abused' these 'all you can eat'.

http://www.mightybargainhunter.com/2...eat-yah-right/

I've heard of instances like this over the years. It's not unheard of.
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post #180 of 214
12/10/09 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Actually I've heard news reports of restaurants asking people to leave when they 'abused' these 'all you can eat'.

http://www.mightybargainhunter.com/2...eat-yah-right/

I've heard of instances like this over the years. It's not unheard of.

I have heard the same thing as well. But never have I heard one being presented with a higher bill.

I personally know of a couple that were so huge, i.e., over 400 lbs, that they were refused service on their return visit. They took it to court and the judge threw their case out due to sense of reason. That and the signage on the restaurant's menu that they had the right of refusal.
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post #181 of 214
12/10/09 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokessd View Post

It's super easy to be a bandwidth hog. For example lets say you enjoy pandora while at work. Here's a simple scenario that involves nothing but pandora:

Streaming Pandora at: 128 kbps

16,000 bytes per second

960,000 bytes per minute

57,000,000 bytes per hour (~57meg)

Assuming that you listen when you are at work:

9,216,000,000 bytes per month (based on 160 hours of work per month)

So you have used almost 10 gig of your infinity of bandwidth your contract says you can have.
That's without a single e-mail, web page, youtube video etc.
5 gig a month is easy even without tethering. So don't blame the jailbroken.


Sheldon

Thats quite a job to be sitting pretty just listenting to your iphone all day lol. In all honesty i think 1-2 hours is what most spend listening to Pandora a day if even that. I use mine when i dont feel like listening to music on my Bold and want something different in the car. Assuming you listen 1 hour everyday for 30 days, you only use 1.7GB of data.

So 1.7GB from streaming Pandora, lets allocate 1GB for emails/MMS and you would have 2.3GB of web surfing/youtube goodness/moderate app downloads. Its very easy to fall within 5GB or less a month even with moderate usage.

When you start going on streaming binges for hours upon end or tethering is when it becomes a grossly apparent problem. It was silly of AT&T to offer unlimited because of course there are those that will abuse the system, if a 5GB cap was in place already we most likely wouldnt be even having this discussion.
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post #182 of 214
12/10/09 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

This doesn't really have anything to do with speed. It's about total usage (data consumed). AT&T's problem is that they sold an 'unlimited plan' and are now trying to place limits on it.

Yes, I know and the go kart thing wasn't meant to mean "speed" in a literal sense but rather that technology advances, consequently the world changes and so do promises have to change along with that.

Moving to the parallel comments about restaurants: The "all you can eat" deals typically don't allow people to show up at 11AM and stay until 11PM, stuffing their faces all day long. "All" generally implies all one could eat for a meal with the knowledge that every person is going to want a different amount. So, yes, there are practical limits on things that are often advertised as unlimited with the understanding that it still provides everything 99+% of us could want (to eat in this case).
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post #183 of 214
12/10/09 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Yes, I know and the go kart thing wasn't meant to mean "speed" in a literal sense but rather that technology advances, consequently the world changes and so do promises have to change along with that.

Moving to the parallel comments about restaurants: The "all you can eat" deals typically don't allow people to show up at 11AM and stay until 11PM, stuffing their faces all day long. "All" generally implies all one could eat for a meal with the knowledge that every person is going to want a different amount. So, yes, there are practical limits on things that are often advertised as unlimited with the understanding that it still provides everything 99+% of us could want (to eat in this case).

I've never seen an all you can eat that says you can only eat for X number of hours. About the only limit I have ever seen posted is that you cannot share your food with others. That's about it.
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post #184 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I've never seen an all you can eat that says you can only eat for X number of hours. About the only limit I have ever seen posted is that you cannot share your food with others. That's about it.

Yes, there really are places that advertise "all you can eat" but don't let you feed yourself for 12 hours. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it?
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post #185 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Yes, there really are places that advertise "all you can eat" but don't let you feed yourself for 12 hours. Kinda makes sense, doesn't it?

It only makes sense if they state as much. That's the whole reason a business will post a 'we reserve the right' sign. If they don't post it, they put themselves in legal hot water. Just because something sounds right, doesn't mean it's legally sound.
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post #186 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:12am
To all those who are criticizing people here for "hogging" bandwidth, without bandwidth hogs, what incentive would there be for AT&T to improve its network? I'm sorry, but if you use less than 5GB/month, you don't actually use data, period. Quit griping and be thankful because you ultimately have a better network than if you didn't have people stressing the network. Companies improve their products or services for those who actually use said things, NOT for those who don't (the former actually get their money's worth from the network, the latter are poor saps who are being raped by AT&T because they are "sub-par" users). Sorry, but its true, and I know it hurts. And AT&T won't "throttle back" hogs, as that act has already been sternly condemned by the FCC when Comcast (most notably) did so to P2P clients not that long ago. It falls under net neutrality, and discrimination is bad- whatever form it may take. Also, the terms of the contract are UNLIMITED data usage for iPhone users. Not an iPhone user? Quit crying and get over it. AT&T has no right to be coming down on iPhone users for "hogging" bandwidth when they offer an unlimited service. This all sounds to me like AT&T is cracking under the heat from Verizon's flamethrower... AT&T, we know your network lacks infrastructure, but punishing users of the phone which has made your company prosper during the last few years is the wrong, wrong move. You can bet that if AT&T does implement such a data cap, Verizon will unmercifully have a field day with it. I'm also pretty sure Apple would be none too pleased with having its flagship product castrated.
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post #187 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

To all those who are criticizing people here for "hogging" bandwidth, without bandwidth hogs, what incentive would there be for AT&T to improve its network? I'm sorry, but if you use less than 5GB/month, you don't actually use data, period. Quit griping and be thankful because you ultimately have a better network than if you didn't have people stressing the network. Companies improve their products or services for those who actually use said things, NOT for those who don't (the former actually get their money's worth from the network, the latter are poor saps who are being raped by AT&T because they are "sub-par" users). Sorry, but its true, and I know it hurts. And AT&T won't "throttle back" hogs, as that act has already been sternly condemned by the FCC when Comcast (most notably) did so to P2P clients not that long ago. It falls under net neutrality, and discrimination is bad- whatever form it may take. Also, the terms of the contract are UNLIMITED data usage for iPhone users. Not an iPhone user? Quit crying and get over it. AT&T has no right to be coming down on iPhone users for "hogging" bandwidth when they offer an unlimited service. This all sounds to me like AT&T is cracking under the heat from Verizon's flamethrower... AT&T, we know your network lacks infrastructure, but punishing users of the phone which has made your company prosper during the last few years is the wrong, wrong move. You can bet that if AT&T does implement such a data cap, Verizon will unmercifully have a field day with it. I'm also pretty sure Apple would be none too pleased with having its flagship product castrated.

At least you kept on topic for the first part, ranting though it may have been. The last part of your post is just flamebait and trolling.
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post #188 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

At least you kept on topic for the first part, ranting though it may have been. The last part of your post is just flamebait and trolling.

Flamebait- perhaps (if others disagree)

Trolling- not in the least (I'm not a troll)

Accurate analogy- indisputable (no explanation needed)
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post #189 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

To all those who are criticizing people here for "hogging" bandwidth, without bandwidth hogs, what incentive would there be for AT&T to improve its network? I'm sorry, but if you use less than 5GB/month, you don't actually use data, period. Quit griping and be thankful because you ultimately have a better network than if you didn't have people stressing the network. Companies improve their products or services for those who actually use said things, NOT for those who don't (the former actually get their money's worth from the network, the latter are poor saps who are being raped by AT&T because they are "sub-par" users). Sorry, but its true, and I know it hurts. And AT&T won't "throttle back" hogs, as that act has already been sternly condemned by the FCC when Comcast (most notably) did so to P2P clients not that long ago. It falls under net neutrality, and discrimination is bad- whatever form it may take. Also, the terms of the contract are UNLIMITED data usage for iPhone users. Not an iPhone user? Quit crying and get over it. AT&T has no right to be coming down on iPhone users for "hogging" bandwidth when they offer an unlimited service. This all sounds to me like AT&T is cracking under the heat from Verizon's flamethrower... AT&T, we know your network lacks infrastructure, but punishing users of the phone which has made your company prosper during the last few years is the wrong, wrong move. You can bet that if AT&T does implement such a data cap, Verizon will unmercifully have a field day with it. I'm also pretty sure Apple would be none too pleased with having its flagship product castrated.

LOL! Verizon invented the "unlimited" "capped" wireless data plan. Get your facts straight!

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post #190 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Flamebait- perhaps (if others disagree)

Trolling- not in the least (I'm not a troll)

Accurate analogy- indisputable (no explanation needed)

Of what possible interest are your political beliefs to me or anyone else on this board, in a thread about AT&T policy?
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post #191 of 214
12/10/09 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

It only makes sense if they state as much. That's the whole reason a business will post a 'we reserve the right' sign. If they don't post it, they put themselves in legal hot water. Just because something sounds right, doesn't mean it's legally sound.

How many lawsuits have filed over what "all you can eat" means at some two-bit buffet? That 99% of customers have no problem with an eating limit ought to tell us something.
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post #192 of 214
12/10/09 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

How many lawsuits have filed over what "all you can eat" means at some two-bit buffet? That 99% of customers have no problem with an eating limit ought to tell us something.

I would imagine because it would cost them more to get a lawyer and sue than to buy a meal.
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post #193 of 214
12/10/09 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

LOL! Verizon invented the "unlimited" "capped" wireless data plan. Get your facts straight!

Of what relevance is Verizon's inventing of "unlimited capped" usage to what I was saying? The issue is that AT&T may change the data usage rates after the fact because their network can't handle the bandwidth load. Get my facts straight? Why don't you go read and understand the article first and then come back.
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post #194 of 214
12/10/09 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Of what relevance is Verizon's inventing of "unlimited capped" usage to what I was saying? The issue is that AT&T may change the data usage rates after the fact because their network can't handle the bandwidth load. Get my facts straight? Why don't you go read and understand the article first and then come back.

Then why did you choose to comment on it in the first place if you supposedly weren't interested. I was simply making a passing comment, as a side note no less. I couldn't give a rats ass if you care or don't care about my political beliefs, but I none the less have a right to express them anyway I choose, however I want to, without being called a troll. Please.

Then I have the sane right to express my beliefs.

You a troll. Your post was off topic and irrelevant and we called it as such.
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post #195 of 214
12/10/09 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

You a troll. Your post was off topic and irrelevant and we called it as such.

Haha ok. Thanks for serving as the troll police. I'll be sure to look out for them too.
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post #196 of 214
12/10/09 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Then I have the sane right to express my beliefs.

You a troll. Your post was off topic and irrelevant and we called it as such.

There's a difference between expressing one's beliefs and making a personal attack.
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post #197 of 214
12/10/09 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Of what relevance is Verizon's inventing of "unlimited capped" usage to what I was saying? The issue is that AT&T may change the data usage rates after the fact because their network can't handle the bandwidth load. Get my facts straight? Why don't you go read and understand the article first and then come back.

Then why did you choose to comment on it in the first place if you supposedly weren't interested. I was simply making a passing comment, as a side note no less. I couldn't give a rats ass if you care or don't care about my political beliefs, but I none the less have a right to express them anyway I choose, however I want to, without being called a troll. Please.

It doesn't belong here.

It belongs in here (the PoliticalOutsider forum). You can argue your politics to your hearts content there, but you can't here. I quoted you for posterity sake, to document that you are posting in violation of the TOS.

In the future, keep your political opinions, fears, leanings, outbursts, etc. where they belong and not here in the iPhone forum.

Thankyouverymuch.

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post #198 of 214
12/10/09 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Haha ok. Thanks for serving as the troll police. I'll be sure to look out for them too.

My political leanings (which you have mischaracterized) aren't the issue.

There is a TOS for AI, you agreed to it when you signed up. You violated it with your above political rant of a post. You did it again when you personally attacked me.

One of the great things about AI is that we can have civil discussions about Apple without degenerating into all the political or religious crap. They even created a separate forum (PoliticalOutside) for you guys who live/eat/breathe that stuff. You can pontificate your politics to anyone there who cares to listen.

But we don't care to listen to it here.

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post #199 of 214
12/10/09 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

I would imagine because it would cost them more to get a lawyer and sue than to buy a meal.

That's true yet I also don't see people walking around saying they would sue a buffet over how long they could stay if only the cost of doing so was no more than the meal itself. When a "limitation" seems fine for 99% of the people then there probably isn't much wrong with it.

By the way, I've never seen anyone complain about how long they could stay at an all-you-can-eat buffet. Who has?
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post #200 of 214
12/10/09 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post

Flamebait- perhaps (if others disagree)

Trolling- not in the least (I'm not a troll)

Accurate analogy- indisputable (no explanation needed)

Irrelevant & off topic - not having anything to do with the topic at hand. For whatever reason you wanted to insert that, it doesn't matter, as noted by someone else, politics belong in Political Outsider or on some other site.
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