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Reasons why we are all wrong on September 11th - Page 2

post #41 of 54
[quote]Originally posted by mpw_amherst:
<strong>

Sorry, that isn't an answer to the facts that Fisk presents. I said, I think we've reached stalemate. I see little point in arguing with people who refuse to present facts to support their side of the argument.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Like you?
post #42 of 54
[quote]Originally posted by mpw_amherst:
<strong>as for the Cuban prisoners - it violates their human rights that they should be shackled, it is against the Geneva convention.</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK Mr. Facts, <a href="http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/y3gctpw.htm" target="_blank">here's the Geneva Convention regarding prisoners of war.</a> You show me where it says they can't be shackled.
post #43 of 54
What a silly thread. These people are getting more than they deserve.
post #44 of 54
way to go mpw_amherst. I thought about posting similar views and information but correctly predicted that the response would be negative/abusive.

From my reading of this board I would suggest that Scott H is an abusive troll and best ignored. As for the others on this board, the great majority seem to be open minded, reflective people - more than capable of holding reasoned discussions about most topics. That is why I am deeply saddened by the prevelance of the aggressive/defensive stance that many US citizens seems to be taking i.e. everybody hates us/is against us/is trying to kill us therefore we can do what we like/flout international law/generally behave appallingly towards the rest of the planet without providing justification/evidence to the rest of the community of nations. unfortunately for the future safety/stability of the world I can much easier see that scenario working in reverse.

I would advise anybody allowing anger/sorrow/racism or anything else to rule their thoughts on this matter to rent out the film "12 angry men" and be entertained and educated. It is one of the few hollywood films that promotes due process over the violent death of the 'bad guys'. Not very 'sexy' but a much better way to run a country.

once again, nice one mpw_amherst. If anyone has particular beefs with any of his points, speak up and i'll do my best to dig out some hard facts to support them because I know that they are by and large a fairer and truer picture of what's going on than any other I've read recently
post #45 of 54
[quote]Originally posted by bawjaws:
<strong>From my reading of this board I would suggest that Scott H is an abusive troll and best ignored.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Because I ask people to back stuff up? Wow what a troll I am.
post #46 of 54
amherst:
&gt;Sorry, that isn't an answer to the facts that Fisk presents. I said, I think we've reached stalemate. I see little point in arguing with people who refuse to present facts to support their side of the argument. If we were talking about G5s and I used a quote from Steve Jobs in 1981, or something, it wouldn't hold much water. &lt;

You haven't presented any facts at all. Just some ramblings from a left wing uninformed twit. Just because you're dense enough to believe his novel doesn't make it fact. There are reporters and news organizations all over the world-you really think they missed something? Get over yourself, you're wrong, period........................................
post #47 of 54
[quote]Originally posted by mpw_amherst:
<strong>
Sorry, that isn't an answer to the facts that Fisk presents. I said, I think we've reached stalemate. I see little point in arguing with people who refuse to present facts to support their side of the argument. If we were talking about G5s and I used a quote from Steve Jobs in 1981, or something, it wouldn't hold much water.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Stalemate? And I wasn't even trying! BTW, your example isn't even remotely analogous. If Steve Jobs talked about G5s in 1981, he would have needed a crystal ball. Prime Minister Begin was talking about events that had already transpired.
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post #48 of 54
[quote]Originally posted by mpw_amherst:
<strong>Ok, I've read some your points about the war on terrorism and it disturbs me that many American (and some European) readers have missed the point .

First, the prisoners in Cuba.
1. The outside world has yet to see any evidence that these people are guilty of anything.
2. George Bush cannot say that we ae fighting a war on terrorism, take prisoners and then say that they are not POW.
3. As one poster has already said, this is a war about western values. America, by ignoring the human rights of these prisoners is gifting Al Quaeda more fuel for their anti-America/West protests.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51468-2002Jan28.html" target="_blank">Europeans Tossing Terror Suspects Out the Door</a>

By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, January 29, 2002; Page A01

[quote]KARLSTAD, Sweden - On the afternoon of Dec. 18, Ahmed Hussein Agaiza, 39, an Egyptian dissident living in Sweden, set out on foot for a language class, unaware that an Egyptian government airplane had landed in the Swedish capital to take him home against his will. Near the school, Swedish police grabbed Agaiza, who had been sentenced in absentia in Egypt to 25 years of hard labor on charges of taking part in an armed attack on the Egyptian Embassy in Pakistan.

A few hours later in Stockholm, Muhammad Zari, another Egyptian asylum-seeker facing years in prison in his home country on charges of belonging to an Islamic terrorist group, was on the phone with his attorney, Kjell Jonsson. The attorney heard a strange voice on the other end say "hang up," and the line suddenly went dead.

At about the same time, Agaiza's wife, Hanan Khaleq, called a local office of Amnesty International to say that a Swedish police officer had come to their home to pick up medicine for her husband's peptic ulcer. What was going on? Khaleq was frantic: Could the government be planning to send him back to Egypt? That's not possible, came the reply.

This, after all, was Sweden, a country with a long tradition of sheltering political refugees, even those accused of terrorist acts in their home countries. But in fact, Agaiza and Zari had already been put aboard the waiting plane, and by early the next morning they were back in Egypt, the country they had fled 10 years earlier. Both men deny the terrorism charges.

Even as European governments criticize the United States for its treatment of Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, they are showing new willingness to expel terror suspects to countries that were previously shunned because of records of torture and execution...<hr></blockquote>

Huh. How about that?

[ 01-29-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
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post #49 of 54
Sounds to me Europe is getting wise to the threat these people really are. Good for them.
post #50 of 54
I read this at BotW today. I think it's a good idea.

<a href="http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=492439" target="_blank">US threat to send Britons home</a>

by Charles Reiss Political Editor

America is threatening to return up to 40 alleged al Qaeda fighters to Britain, presenting the Government with a security, legal and diplomatic nightmare.

The Britons, three held at Camp X-Ray in Cuba and the rest still in Afghanistan, were captured during and after the campaign to topple the Taliban.

Elements of the Bush administration want Britain to accept responsibility for the prisoners. Ministers and security sources are deeply unhappy, and are strongly urging Tony Blair to forestall any formal request from Washington.

...


Ha ha.
post #51 of 54
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Don't even get me started on that. And how much Christianity is a part of our country's politics and law. I'm guessing it's pretty similar in the UK.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, if the terrorists get their way, we will all be Islamic Fundementalists including our politicians. And Belle, not sure if your a female but if you are, then you should know that there are "perks" to being an Islamic female such as you won't have to worry about driving, or going outdoors alone.

- Mark
post #52 of 54
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Why is it that those quickest to blame US foreign policy for the worlds ills rarely have any genuine grasp of the dynamics of US foreign policy?

I'd suggest you take a few minutes away from your masturbatory blame spewing and study the specifics of US foreign policy before you engage in another debate like this.

Here, I'll even give you a little fact to get you started: the school of foreign policy that guided our involvement in Afghanistan following the 1979 Soviet invasion is the precise opposite of school of foreign policy that now guides our actions.

Can you guess which school of foreign policy you're (indirectly) advocating here?
post #53 of 54
[quote]Originally posted by mpw_amherst:
<strong>Ok, I've read some your points about the war on terrorism and it disturbs me that many American (and some European) readers have missed the point ......</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't even know where to begin here. I disagree with everything you say. EVERYTHING.
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post #54 of 54
Just wanted to say again how wrong you are.. Thanks! <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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