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post #81 of 141
Discussion success!
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post #82 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The entire industry is.

that I am only using the term "fracturing" when developers have en masse talking about the problems of having multiple flavors across multiple hardware configurations...

its the old tired and fustrating "works, but not certified"...which was a nightmare for hardware manufacturers using windows...you can not possible predict which hardware configuration a consumer will use to build their computer, only design an optimum one.

what work you have to do before you before buying a peripheral to make sure it works with your motherboard, your video card, your sound card....etc,.
post #83 of 141
New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.

As for the computer building, it's as hard as you think it is. I, at first, thought the same way. That there's too much to burn through before finding what works. But it turns out that there are standards (governed by IEEE) for the motherboards that make it really easy to determine what will and will not work. Not to mention that the slots are keyed to only accept a specific connector. And the manufacturers of those items have their drivers at the ready for Windows. Plus, implying that you're building a desktop automatically implies that you have a bit of knowledge into how the pieces work together.

All the mainstream motherboards "evolve", if you will, to a new standard at pretty much the same time. And the hardware follows suit. There are the high-performance boards at the very edge that move on to new standards, but they're more of the exception.

For example, I have a PCI-E based board. I grab any manufacturer's video card that uses the PCI-E standard and swap out. Install drivers. Done. Same goes with sound cards, network adapters, etc.

Even in a fragmented world, there are standards that offer control.
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post #84 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by caf View Post

I don't think any Android device could compare to the iPhone before the Droid. The Droid has hardware that matches the iPhone (better in some ways, but worse in others, but overall a pretty good match, especially for those that prefer physical keyboards). And when you consider that the Droid is on a better network, it makes for a good option for some people.

I've been saying for some time though, that the pace of development in the Android world is way outpacing Apple. With new devices coming out every couple of weeks or so, there will soon be many Android devices that outperform the iPhone. The Nexus One, for instance, will have twice the resolution of an iPhone screen, and a significantly faster processor, the 1 GHz Snapdragon. It's thinner, offers better integration with the many free Google apps, and if I never have to use iTunes again, I'll be overjoyed (Never has such a crappy piece of software been suffered by so many, except maybe Windows Vista).

What makes me most interested in the Nexus, though, is the business model. Will Google finally succeed in breaking the locked-in carrier model? Although others have tried, none have the marketing muscle or connections with buyers that Google has. It irritates me that if I buy an iPhone, or most other phones on major carriers, that I essentially have to buy them on credit. I get a cheap subsidized price up front, then have to pay for hugely overpriced service through the carrier for the next two years to pay back my "loan". It would be a huge step forward for consumers if we could buy the phone we want, then deal for the best data plan available. Even if only TMobile is on board with the Nexus initially, if they get enough new customers they could force the hand of others. It will be interesting to watch.

Very succinctly put, especially for those questioning the validity of this article on AI
post #85 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

For example, I have a PCI-E based board. I grab any manufacturer's video card that uses the PCI-E standard and swap out. Install drivers. Done. Same goes with sound cards, network adapters, etc.

Even in a fragmented world, there are standards that offer control.

That is a horrible example which only works with certain HW components, not with varying HW platform types or OS models with different UIs.
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post #86 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is a horrible example which only works with certain HW components, not with varying HW platform types or OS models with different UIs.

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of how desktop building fits in to the discussion?

The way I interperated it was that there are many varying motherboard manufacturers and I can buy a board from any one of them. The same for video cards, sound cards, etc. As long as all of them build to the PCI or PCI-E standard, then I can fit any manufacturer's PCI-E video card into any manufacturer's motherboard's PCI-E slot.

The thing on a motherboard that truly is incompatible is the processor socket than anything else. And even then, all motherboards have a wide range of sockets that it will accept. You buy a board that has Intel on it, you get an Intel processor. Same for AMD. Then you can stick whatever manufacturer's product you want into the corresponding slot. Provided that you match the standard that slot goes with, of course.
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post #87 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I'm sure Verizon and Motorola are thrilled.

And The Great Android Fragmentation continues . . .

I don't understand the fragmentation argument. They all have the same OS.

Are you so blindly in love with Apple that you don't see the point of having more than one hardware choice for a certain OS? People need a choice of hardware features as well as software. Having more Android phones can't hurt Google and can't hurt consumers.

Don't forget that the iPhone has had 3 major versions now. New games and such take advantage of the 3GS and its faster processor and video capability.
post #88 of 141
It's all targeting our fickle consumers. Google, as does Apple, plans on selling attractive and profitable products made in Asia.

The Google 'nexus' offering may be intended to encourage a more 'open' wireless U.S. rate structure. Maybe even like the rest of the world.

If T-Mobile is the intended 'home' of the device this may be related to TM's new plan and installing of new high-speed services.
post #89 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by caf View Post

I don't think any Android device could compare to the iPhone before the Droid. The Droid has hardware that matches the iPhone (better in some ways, but worse in others, but overall a pretty good match, especially for those that prefer physical keyboards). And when you consider that the Droid is on a better network, it makes for a good option for some people.

I've been saying for some time though, that the pace of development in the Android world is way outpacing Apple. With new devices coming out every couple of weeks or so, there will soon be many Android devices that outperform the iPhone. The Nexus One, for instance, will have twice the resolution of an iPhone screen, and a significantly faster processor, the 1 GHz Snapdragon. It's thinner, offers better integration with the many free Google apps, and if I never have to use iTunes again, I'll be overjoyed (Never has such a crappy piece of software been suffered by so many, except maybe Windows Vista).

What makes me most interested in the Nexus, though, is the business model. Will Google finally succeed in breaking the locked-in carrier model? Although others have tried, none have the marketing muscle or connections with buyers that Google has. It irritates me that if I buy an iPhone, or most other phones on major carriers, that I essentially have to buy them on credit. I get a cheap subsidized price up front, then have to pay for hugely overpriced service through the carrier for the next two years to pay back my "loan". It would be a huge step forward for consumers if we could buy the phone we want, then deal for the best data plan available. Even if only TMobile is on board with the Nexus initially, if they get enough new customers they could force the hand of others. It will be interesting to watch.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I do have a feeling that carriers will fight hard for the carrier exclusive, subsidized phone model, but with a giant like Google in the mix, you never know what will happen.

At least you can do what you are saying with T-Mobile, but it'd be nice if other carriers gave you a discount for not subsidizing your hardware.
post #90 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhomerun View Post

I don't understand the fragmentation argument.

Half the thread explains the fragmentation argument in detail.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...0&postcount=20

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...7&postcount=25

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...3&postcount=30

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...0&postcount=65

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=80

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...4&postcount=16
post #91 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Actually, this is a meaningless statement.

"Fragmentation" always refers to platform fragmentation. A platform is fragmented when multiple versions of the OS exist or multiple versions of hardware exist that can only run one or the other versions or subsets of the OS. It's basically software determined even in the hardware case, because different hardware that can all run the same software is just platform "differentiation," not fragmentation. Case in point is all the different hardware that can run Linux.

Actually, yours is a meaningless comment

Fragmentation always refers to whatever the referer means by fragmentation. What you may think is a completely and utterly seperate concept.
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post #92 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Actually, yours is a meaningless comment

Fragmentation always refers to whatever the referer means by fragmentation. What you may think is a completely and utterly seperate concept.

Yes. Words only mean what the speaker intends, and what the listener apprehends is unrelated.

Although I don't know why I bother to post this, since it's a crapshoot if anyone will find it intelligible.
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post #93 of 141
How is the iPhone in these various versions fragmented when 1) the OS is the same, and 2) the hardware is substantially the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

And you ignoring the iPhone Gen 1, iPhone Gen 2, iPhone 3GS, and iPod Touch Fragmentation continues...

But hey, I suppose those blinders make it easier to see where you're headed to...
post #94 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Look again at what you've written-- I think it makes the case that there are legitimate concerns regarding Android platform fragmentation and what it means for a broadly adopted consumer device.

Your reasons why all is well sound exactly like the Linux apologists that have been assuring us the Linux is set to make real inroads on consumer desktops, any minute now. The problem being, of course, that what seems right and evident and good to tech heads and geeks isn't necessarily, and probably isn't, what seems right and evident and good to the average consumer.

Remember, the whole point of the iPhone was to make smartphone functionality readily usable by the average consumer. And not just the phone itself, but the whole process, from software updates to getting apps. And remember that upon launch, tech heads and geeks were full of contempt because they already had phones that could "do all that."

Now, Google has sort of explicitly positioned Android as the geek OS of choice, and I'm sure that a lot of early adopters are happy to dl "proof of concept" hacks that give their handsets various forms of functionality, and don't have trouble keeping track of various point releases and hardware capabilities. But that shit is never going to fly with the average consumer. Worse, the same community that relishes digging into the underpinnings of their phone are likely to have nothing but contempt for users that just want to buy a phone that works, with the apps they buy, out of the box. When such consumers come looking for help, are they going to get the IT guy treatment?

The worst thing that could happen to Android would be to get a reputation as the geek phone of choice, with the geek community bristling at newbies who don't even know how to compile binaries or find OS tweeks generated by that community. Fragmentation isn't going to be a problem for a certain subset of users, as your post indicates. The problem is is that subset isn't big enough to drive truly mass market adoption. Android needs to have clarity, as a brand and as an experience, to remain a growing concern.

** Best Post I've Read In Months! **

Nice job. Unfortunately, there will still be people who just don't get it. But that's okay, it just proves that there are very different mindsets when it comes to purchasing and using technology.
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post #95 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

As for the computer building, it's as hard as you think it is. I, at first, thought the same way. That there's too much to burn through before finding what works. But it turns out that there are standards (governed by IEEE) for the motherboards that make it really easy to determine what will and will not work. Not to mention that the slots are keyed to only accept a specific connector. And the manufacturers of those items have their drivers at the ready for Windows. Plus, implying that you're building a desktop automatically implies that you have a bit of knowledge into how the pieces work together.

All the mainstream motherboards "evolve", if you will, to a new standard at pretty much the same time. And the hardware follows suit. There are the high-performance boards at the very edge that move on to new standards, but they're more of the exception.

For example, I have a PCI-E based board. I grab any manufacturer's video card that uses the PCI-E standard and swap out. Install drivers. Done. Same goes with sound cards, network adapters, etc.

Even in a fragmented world, there are standards that offer control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

The way I interperated it was that there are many varying motherboard manufacturers and I can buy a board from any one of them. The same for video cards, sound cards, etc. As long as all of them build to the PCI or PCI-E standard, then I can fit any manufacturer's PCI-E video card into any manufacturer's motherboard's PCI-E slot.

The thing on a motherboard that truly is incompatible is the processor socket than anything else. And even then, all motherboards have a wide range of sockets that it will accept. You buy a board that has Intel on it, you get an Intel processor. Same for AMD. Then you can stick whatever manufacturer's product you want into the corresponding slot. Provided that you match the standard that slot goes with, of course.

Interestingly, the above is pretty irrefutable proof that you are FAR from a typical consumer. You're a smart guy, and you "get" technology. But it appears you don't understand consumers (referring to the iPhone/fragmentation conversation). It doesn't matter if stores sold a completely pre-canned kit that contained exact matches for boards, processor, case, etc. 99% of consumers will NEVER purchase something like that. Ever. This is why Linux has such a hard time gaining any market share with consumers, even though it's very successful in the server market. I have a handful of Linux servers myself, and have no problem setting one up, but I have no interest at all in using one for my desktop.

As a developer, I have great interest in Google's handset OS, but as a consumer, I have very little. If over time it proves to be robust, virus-free, spyware-free, app-rich, and doesn't pass personal information (location, app usage, various types of "cookies", etc) back to Google, then I will consider it. But I'm more geeky than the typical consumer as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.

This is really interesting stuff, if it's true. I would love to see anything that pushes the carriers lose their grip on consumers in the cell phone industry.

But personally, I would not use any phone that passed any information to Google (or other companies) that I did not specifically enter or request. The iPhone already does too much of this, and it's fortunate that we can jailbreak the devices and lock them down. I know a lot of people just don't care, but fortunately this conversation is happening more as people become aware of the amount of personal information Google has now.

It will take some time before people wake up and realize how scary this is, but I like the fact that more and more people are bothered by the type, and sheer amount, of personal information that various companies, Google in particular, are in control of now. Our society is like a lobster. Put it in a nice warm pot of water, and slowly turn up the heat until it's boiled for dinner. The lobster doesn't even complain because it happens slowly.
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post #96 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Works on 3G networks abroad. Still technically a 3G phone.

Technically one thing, actually another - how open source is that!

McD
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post #97 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Interestingly, the above is pretty irrefutable proof that you are FAR from a typical consumer. You're a smart guy, and you "get" technology. But it appears you don't understand consumers (referring to the iPhone/fragmentation conversation). []

Great post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.

Unless they can at least break even with that price then it doesnt seem likely. Since Google already dominates mobile searches across nearly all mobile browsers and Android as a platform there is simply no need to offer a loss leader device that Google has to fork out money to support.
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post #98 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

And you ignoring the iPhone Gen 1, iPhone Gen 2, iPhone 3GS, and iPod Touch Fragmentation continues...

But hey, I suppose those blinders make it easier to see where you're headed to...

Three of those products are successors and the other is in a different category & did Apple release them in competition to it's licensees products?

But hey, I suppose not all come-backs have to be clever!

McD
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post #99 of 141
i can understand why google does this with their own phone. they are trying to control the features, UI etc, with all these other android phones how does google control the experience like apple does, because now their maybe 20+ "android" experiences and the brand becomes diluted or amorphous.

now google could clearly define the parameters to give a unique UI and experience, but phone manufacturers want some way to differentiate their phones. it also shows that apple did the right thing and the MS model is doomed.

the big question, is going from a moto android, to htc android, to samsung android et al just confuses the consumer--(can apps be transfered) and IT goes nuts.

google needs more than an app store it needs a more tight universe like apple to give a total seemless experience.

nokia, MS, Pre are doomed, there will be room for RIM, since some simply like that physical keyboard.

gee all those that said apple needs a cdma phone, well that's dead. also i applaud google for pushing this to the consumer to release us from the oppressive telecoms, iphone started this now another nail in the coffin is google. this is the way to finally get the monthly costs down and more penetration
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post #100 of 141
I'm more worried as to who will support the phone, because I doubt HTC will if it is Google branded. Not saying that Google sucks in this regard, but they haven't sold any hardware themselves directly yet.
post #101 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Just like Pre, the first Droid phones, and all the other iPhone killers out there?

Meanwhile, they're bragging because Pre will sell 600,000 phones this quarter (down 30% from the previous quarter) while Apple will sell 10,000,000 iPhones.

So far, none of these alleged 'iphone killers' have had anything to recommend them.



I don't know. Why are Android fans so obsessed with killing the iPhone?

It's sarcasm - like calling your pet Chihuahua 'killer'

McD
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post #102 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

"Fragmentation" always refers to platform fragmentation. A platform is fragmented when multiple versions of the OS exist or multiple versions of hardware exist that can only run one or the other versions or subsets of the OS. It's basically software determined even in the hardware case, because different hardware that can all run the same software is just platform "differentiation," not fragmentation. Case in point is all the different hardware that can run Linux.

So, to summarise, what fragmentation/differentiation really means is roughly 1% market share.

And what's all this about Google providing a tangible product anyway? I thought they just made money by pointing people in a chaotically plausible direction.

McD
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post #103 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Actually it's from Blade Runner. The number represents a generation/model.

Actually it isn't "from" Blade Runner, because nexus is a separate term in itself available to use by anyone, and in terms of cultural history Henry Miller used it before Blade Runner. If they intend it to be "from" Blade Runner that's their business, not mine, my associations are personal.
post #104 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

Three of those products are successors and the other is in a different category & did Apple release them in competition to it's licensees products?

But hey, I suppose not all come-backs have to be clever!

McD

Well, since Apple doesn't license the iPhone OS it would be impossible to compete with its licensees, so it's kind of a nonsense argument. Also, in most ways the various Android phones are successors to each other. The same as Gen 1 iPhone users can't enjoy 3G, so goes for the equivalent Gen 1 Android users. Or any of the various iterations of the iPod. Such is the nature of technology that it is always advancing.

One very nice feature of the Android platform is I could buy apps with little fear of vendor lock-in. If I buy Verizon's Droid and then another Android phone next year is more to my liking I have a much higher chance of being able to use those apps on the new phone. With the iPhone, I have zero chance of switching to another manufacturers phone; I'll always be stuck buying next year's iPhone to continue to use my apps (and having no choice on shopping around for the best phone feature set).

People aren't looking for 5 year or even 3 year commitments to cell phones. They're practically fashion accessories to be switched out as styles change. Not long ago, the Motorola Razr was the fashionable cell phone to have. Now it's the iPhone. What will the next "must have" cell phone fashion be? I don't know.

And before I get hit the fallback argument, I'm not Android lover. And I'm not an iPhone hater. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Would an iPhone be fun to have? Sure, but I wasn't willing to leave Verizon to get it.
post #105 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Well, since Apple doesn't license the iPhone OS it would be impossible to compete with its licensees, so it's kind of a nonsense argument. Also, in most ways the various Android phones are successors to each other. The same as Gen 1 iPhone users can't enjoy 3G, so goes for the equivalent Gen 1 Android users. Or any of the various iterations of the iPod. Such is the nature of technology that it is always advancing.

One very nice feature of the Android platform is I could buy apps with little fear of vendor lock-in. If I buy Verizon's Droid and then another Android phone next year is more to my liking I have a much higher chance of being able to use those apps on the new phone. With the iPhone, I have zero chance of switching to another manufacturers phone; I'll always be stuck buying next year's iPhone to continue to use my apps (and having no choice on shopping around for the best phone feature set).

People aren't looking for 5 year or even 3 year commitments to cell phones. They're practically fashion accessories to be switched out as styles change. Not long ago, the Motorola Razr was the fashionable cell phone to have. Now it's the iPhone. What will the next "must have" cell phone fashion be? I don't know.

And before I get hit the fallback argument, I'm not Android lover. And I'm not an iPhone hater. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Would an iPhone be fun to have? Sure, but I wasn't willing to leave Verizon to get it.

I've said this before, but I think it's a fundamental error to continue to think of "cell phones" in Razr terms. Phones like the Razr were entirely differentiated by case design. Of course they were disposable and used as fashion accessories.

Modern mobile computing devices have more in common with laptops or netbooks than dumbphones. People don't change out their laptop because they get bored with the looks of the thing-- they change it out when they need more computing power to run the apps they want to run.
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post #106 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


People aren't looking for 5 year or even 3 year commitments to cell phones. They're practically fashion accessories to be switched out as styles change. Not long ago, the Motorola Razr was the fashionable cell phone to have. Now it's the iPhone. What will the next "must have" cell phone fashion be? I don't know.

The iPod, for instance, wasn't just a fad. Apple made the iPod. Macs + OS X also rule their respective market. Apple makes the iPhone. It was (and is) the single most important mobile device of the last few years and even with competition, is holding its own and projected to increase by leaps and bounds. If you believe the "by 2012" predictions about Android + iPhone sharing top spots, then we're certainly not talking seasonal fashion or fleeting trends. There is nothing preventing the iPhone from not only having the staying power of the iPod, but from enjoying a similar kind of market domination over the course of time.

Apple "fashion" is characteristically long-lived.
post #107 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Actually it isn't "from" Blade Runner, because nexus is a separate term in itself available to use by anyone, and in terms of cultural history Henry Miller used it before Blade Runner. If they intend it to be "from" Blade Runner that's their business, not mine, my associations are personal.

Dumb comment. It doesn't matter who "coined" the term first or whatever you are trying to say. The fact is nobody cares who was first. Names are often derived from famous movies and just like Droid is from Starwars, Nexus is certainly influenced from Blade Runner. Somehow you also do not see the relation between the words Droid (similar to replicant) and Nexus.
post #108 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

New rumor brewing that this phone will cost $199 subsidized by Google itself. Interesting move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Unless they can at least break even with that price then it doesnt seem likely. Since Google already dominates mobile searches across nearly all mobile browsers and Android as a platform there is simply no need to offer a loss leader device that Google has to fork out money to support.


Google currently has a natural/legal monopoly in the online advertising space. To use this legal monopoly to subsidize / tie users into using another line of business (mobile handsets) in order to grow market share in a secondary market might raise red flags. I realize that the purchase of the Nexus One is entirely optional for the users and product tying in the AntiTrust sense is usually the other way around. But I think MicroSofts lawyers would love to have a crack at Google for AntiTrust violations, and Tying the use of Google Cloud products to a possibly subsidized Nexus One might be their chance.
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post #109 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwirob View Post

Google currently has a natural/legal monopoly in the online advertising space. To use this legal monopoly to subsidize / tie users into using another line of business (mobile handsets) in order to grow market share in a secondary market might raise red flags. I realize that the purchase of the Nexus One is entirely optional for the users and product tying in the AntiTrust sense is usually the other way around. But I think MicroSofts lawyers would love to have a crack at Google for AntiTrust violations, and Tying the use of Google Cloud products to a possibly subsidized Nexus One might be their chance.

Excellent point! I can see that being an anti-trust issue.
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post #110 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

While once again it is pointed out that even the 1st gen iphone and the 3rd gen touch can all run the 3.1 os and are all included when an OS upgrade is available.

And we will see the real numbers, more speculation about the 2.0 and 2.1 being the only two available, THE FACT remains all apple mobile devices are capable/use the latest apple mobile OS....until then with android, it is a lot of big talk...

And once again is pointed out that all iPhone versions have different hardware, so you can either go for (limited) lowest denominator or live in the fragmented world as a developer. The fact all has same OS version is not going to help you there.

On the other hand, while you see several versions of Android at the same time, as it is right now the devices are quite the same, so it is relatively easy to write application that use all the HW features of the device (all have camera, all have GPS, all have Compass, and to some extent have similar video card and processing speed). Unless you writing app that uses latest 2.0 features (such as BT or Wifi peer-to-peer connectivity), your application will run on all Android devices just fine. When you create your 2.0 API based application, all devices (including G1) will run 2.0 so it will be still one single platform.
post #111 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

How is the iPhone in these various versions fragmented when 1) the OS is the same, and 2) the hardware is substantially the same?

iPhone doesn't have GPS and Compass, iPhone 3G doesn't have Compass and has substantially different video card to 3GS and iPod Touch don't have Camera (and network access except wifi, but that's understandable) and has different memory model. Quite big fragmentation when you consider they are produced by company with such reputation.

Android, in contrast, while every device has a different fancy home screen is pretty much the same from the developer point of view, and multiple versions of the OS is not that big concern as you might read in various FUD posts on this site.
post #112 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

People buy the iphone the same reason apple computers, little to no maintenance, runs what it says it does out of the box, security, productivity, ease of use, and proper implementation of hardware/software.

It already appears that google can not live up to their end, its been over and they can not even update their first venture into android devices..

People buy Android phone and get the same experience..it works out of the box and does what they expect it to do. Just strange sort of "tech-sexuals" like you, who needs to know your device runs the latest version of the system the second day it is announced to stay happy, cares if Android devices have 1.6 or 2.0. Average user doesn't know and he'll happy upgrade once the upgrade for his device is ready. It is much more likely G1 will be upgraded to 2.0 early next year as it won't.

But there is another important point : on iPhone, it is quite essential for you to have the latest version of the OS, otherwise you'd feel somewhat retarded as really important features (copy and paste, system search) won't be there. Android has the important features from the beginning.
What is the major feature of 2.0 ? It is CDMA-compliant (transparent to developer). It is not important at all to you as GSM phone owner. But it will help get Android market share that iPhone probably never get.
post #113 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Dumb comment. It doesn't matter who "coined" the term first or whatever you are trying to say. The fact is nobody cares who was first. Names are often derived from famous movies and just like Droid is from Starwars, Nexus is certainly influenced from Blade Runner. Somehow you also do not see the relation between the words Droid (similar to replicant) and Nexus.

Well a point can be dumb in as much as you don't get it, which you obviously don't. Nexus is a term that is very widely used, and wasn't "coined" so to speak by anyone. The fact that you associate it with Blade Runner doesn't mean it's "from" Blade Runner, or that anyone else will associate it with it. For instance I who have somehow missed Blade Runner (which I d actually love to watch asap for that matter) and it seems I am more literate, I associate it with Henry Miller's book.

In any case I think it's pompous and megalomaniac as per my original post. Great for a product that will fail to attract the imagination of the consumer public and that will fall short of expectations.
post #114 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

iPhone doesn't have GPS and Compass, iPhone 3G doesn't have Compass and has substantially different video card to 3GS and iPod Touch don't have Camera (and network access except wifi, but that's understandable) and has different memory model. Quite big fragmentation when you consider they are produced by company with such reputation.

Android, in contrast, while every device has a different fancy home screen is pretty much the same from the developer point of view, and multiple versions of the OS is not that big concern as you might read in various FUD posts on this site.


Logic stood on its head...

Somehow various OS versions with different interfaces on different hardware is deemed better than the natural progression of the iphone in terms of hardware. How it fragments the market that previous models have less features is beyond anyone...
post #115 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I wonder why Apple iPhone fans are so concerned about Android splintering. Apple fans aren't likely to buy them. It's almost as if people are trading talking points for when iPhone fans talk to others.

I think there is a fear that Apple will screw up again like they did with Microsoft and the good times will fade away. Google will control everything.
post #116 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Wind River announced today a commercial version of the Android platform that comes with pre-integrated apps and global support and is optimized for Texas Instruments OMAP 3. But the offering represents one more step toward a dangerously fragmented Android universe . . .

Yeah, Android is open source, so you can spin-off a completely non-compatible version and still call it Android Phone. But to get the Android Market and all the Google Applications on it, it needs to conform to pretty tight standards. Google is aware of the risk of fragmentation and IMO is doing pretty decent work there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

What does Android fragmentation look like?[/SIZE]

Android fragmentation is real and it is not going away. Ask any developer and they will tell you about the difficulties of supporting multiple versions of Android and their different screen sizes.

Don't agree. I am the Android developer (so I qualify for your "any developer" option) and I have no problems supporting my application on different models and screen sizes. Maybe it has something to do with the multiple years of experience with J2ME which was indeed fragmented.
It is probably possible to write application that will have problems, but if you are reasonably careful you won't run into any major problems. Such problems are with iPhone as well as there are multiple versions of it.

But you brought an interesting point about the screen size : yes Android has officially different screen sizes, and since 1.6 version of OS, there is published way how to deal with multiple resolutions, which is quite elegant, almost automatic.

With all those rumors about iPhone Tablet and iPhone Nano, it is quite inevitable that iPhone will get different display resolutions soon. What information is available to iPhone developer how to prepare for multiple resolutions ? ZERO. There will be many applications among those 100,000 in the AppStore that use hard coded screen sizes and will run into major problems except some Apple "stroke of genius". This is not too comfortable position to be with for iPhone developer...being an open platform with predictable development is quite important.
post #117 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Logic stood on its head...

Somehow various OS versions with different interfaces on different hardware is deemed better than the natural progression of the iphone in terms of hardware. How it fragments the market that previous models have less features is beyond anyone...

Ok, try that slowly for you again. We talked about fragmentation from the developer point of view. Although the interface (mostly of the home screen) might be different between different Android models, the API is pretty much stable through different versions. They are adding new features, similar to your "natural progression of the iPhone", but at the same time, more and more devices gets the OS update, so before developer is done with application that uses new 2.0 features (API), the use base will probably have it. On the other hand, most of Android devices are pretty much the same from the hardware point of view, there are no devices left in the cold without GPS, Camera, Compass, so you can count on devices to have them. So you can create applications using those features that will address entire platform, while on iPhone you are out of such luck. Some of the features are optional on Android, so perhaps we'll see one day a device, that ships without GPS, so the platform gets more fragmented so it will be on par with iPhone, but right now it is simply less fragmented. I know the truth hurts, especially if you still repeat your mantra "OS and HW is from the same manufacturer so it gotta be better" but in fact it is not.

iPhone is still very powerful and nice device, but I wouldn't play that "fragmentation" card against Android, because if you look at the facts, it sounds silly.
post #118 of 141
Apple "stroke of genius" - Nice to see you are willing to note that it will happen:, this is Apple after-all

Does anyone else see 2010 as a VERY important year for Apple? They have opened the door to some exciting times, and now they ether stay ahead or fall behind. The competition is coming on strong, and Apple CAN NOT sit back and take a "Wait & see" attitude. At least not if they want to stay ahead of this race.

We all have to realize, there will come a day, when someone else will come up with something mind blowing, it will be a sad day in the Life & Times of Apple, but it will happen. Until then, here's looking forward to a very interesting 2010 for Apple and all of us Apple freaks.

Skip
post #119 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Remember, the whole point of the iPhone was to make smartphone functionality readily usable by the average consumer.

I disagree.

Instead, the whole point of the iPhone was to make smartphone functionality readily usable by the stupidest among us. That is why, for example, there is only one hardware button on the front. That is why multi-taking is available only for a select subset of apps. That is why software additions are available only from one source.

The iPhone could be MUCH better if it were made for people of average intelligence, and without deferring to dolts who weren't able to stop their VCR from flashing"12:00" for 5 years straight. While not all iPhone users are stupid, all the stupid folks who want a smartphone have only one choice.

I'm hoping Android will be for the rest of us.
post #120 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

Well a point can be dumb in as much as you don't get it, which you obviously don't. Nexus is a term that is very widely used, and wasn't "coined" so to speak by anyone. The fact that you associate it with Blade Runner doesn't mean it's "from" Blade Runner, or that anyone else will associate it with it. For instance I who have somehow missed Blade Runner (which I d actually love to watch asap for that matter) and it seems I am more literate, I associate it with Henry Miller's book.

In any case I think it's pompous and megalomaniac as per my original post. Great for a product that will fail to attract the imagination of the consumer public and that will fall short of expectations.

nexus |ˈneksəs|
noun ( pl. same or -uses )
a connection or series of connections linking two or more things : the nexus between industry and political power.
a connected group or series : a nexus of ideas.
the central and most important point or place : the nexus of all this activity was the disco.
ORIGIN mid 17th cent.: from Latin, a binding together, from nex- bound, from the verb nectere.


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- Michael Lille -
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