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Toshiba announces 64GB NAND flash chip, likely iPhone bound - Page 2

post #41 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That doesn’t make any sense. Unless you are watching a silent film then any phone call is going to interrupt playback. Having both the audio from the video and the audio from the phone call being pumped at the same time or having the audio of the video cut out so you can watch the video without sound while on a call aren’t normal activities the average consumer would want.

Did you ever watch a video with someone else or are you a complete loner? When you get a call do you tell your friend to hold on while you pause the video, or do you tell the caller you will call them back later, without stopping the video so that your friend can continue their enjoyment?

To say that my statement makes no sense is short sighted. There are many reasons people would want to be available for calls while they are watching a film. At least they would want the option to know that a call is coming in. What if it's an emergency call and the other party gets your voicemail?
post #42 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

It should be the same price as the current 32 GB offering. And more importantly, we can expect the current 32 GB iPhone and 64 GB touch can drop in price to today's 16/32 GB prices. I could maybe squeeze my content onto a 64 GB touch, but not at $399. Drop that to $299 and it becomes a better option.

And I don't think it would be that hard to start feeling cramped in 32 GB of storage considering some of the apps you can get... download a navigation app and all if it's maps and a couple of the other professional reference apps (such as medical and pharmacy references that are available for people in those professions), then loading even a normal-sized library of iTunes content and you could start running short of space.

Granted, it's not for everyone, but I wouldn't even consider a touch that had less than 64 GB of storage.

And don't forget, that Apple tablet is probably going to need higher capacities.

I second that. I have been waiting to replace my 20GB 4th gen ipod. with either a touch or phone...but I have been waiting it out for larger storage capacities and maybe another carrier other than AT&T.. why doesnt Apple cut deals with all the major carriers (here in the US), so the iPhone could work with all of them?
post #43 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

I second that. I have been waiting to replace my 20GB 4th gen ipod. with either a touch or phone...but I have been waiting it out for larger storage capacities and maybe another carrier other than AT&T.. why doesnt Apple cut deals with all the major carriers (here in the US), so the iPhone could work with all of them?

Because Apple demands concessions (autonomy over things like voicemail, network access etc) that providers like Verizon were leery of doing. Now that the iPhone is a huge success Apple can pretty much move to other providers and they'll have to cede Apple's wishes for the most part because the iPhone on their network gives them enhanced visibility and marketability.
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post #44 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yes I know that. But read my post. If you pause the track, and go back into your app, you no longer have this option to resume playback. That's dumb, and it's simply something that works better with the Classic/Nano.


Can I get any headphones with remote that have a short cord (that's a deal killer for me if only a long cord is available)? And I have headphones i love already. Why should I buy yet another pair?

And I cannot buy the only adapter available (Scosche) here, and I can't currently buy anything on the internet.

I don't have a problem carrying two devices. If I lost my Classic or it broke, and my only other option were to use my Touch for playback, I'd be severely disappointed, regardless of the capacity.

But as I said before, a high capacity (128GB or more) Nano would be awesome.

Just pointing out the options. Yes Apples implementation of the iPod controls isn't perfect. If you really want something off the internet, there are tons of pre-paid credit cards in stores.
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post #45 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Because Apple demands concessions (autonomy over things like voicemail, network access etc) that providers like Verizon were leery of doing. Now that the iPhone is a huge success Apple can pretty much move to other providers and they'll have to cede Apple's wishes for the most part because the iPhone on their network gives them enhanced visibility and marketability.

So then do you think Apple will add Verizon and still keep a deal with AT&T then? That would be good for competition.
post #46 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Did you ever watch a video with someone else or are you a complete loner?

I never watch a video with multiple people on my iPhone. Its a personal device.

Quote:
When you get a call do you tell your friend to hold on while you pause the video, or do you tell the caller you will call them back later, without stopping the video so that your friend can continue their enjoyment?

Its a 3.5 device with a very select options for audio output. Im not going to hold a conversation while they are trying to watch a video and listen to audio. It interrupts them and I cant give my attention to the person on the other end. Either ignore the call or take the call.

Quote:
To say that my statement makes no sense is short sighted. There are many reasons people would want to be available for calls while they are watching a film. At least they would want the option to know that a call is coming in. What if it's an emergency call and the other party gets your voicemail?

Again, its rude to hold a phone call when someone is watching the video with you especially when that means they are also sharing the videos audio and your phone calls audio. That it rude to both other parties.

I cannot fathom why you think this would be a normal behaviour pattern for people. Even when I am at home in front of a huge HDTV with its own sound system I am not so rude as take a call during with it on when other people are watching. If its important Ill leave the room or Ill pause the video to take the call. That is normal behaviour. If you feel your idea has merit then build an app that does just that and sell it.
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post #47 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoluxa View Post

So then do you think Apple will add Verizon and still keep a deal with AT&T then? That would be good for competition.

Yeah ...I think Verizon will have the iPhone by end of 2010. Verizon's arrogant though and they're going to have to give Apple the concessions they need.

The move to 4G LTE (with Verizon leaving CDMA) means Apple hits multiple markets with the same iPhone hardware.
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post #48 of 74
These are good news for sure. But there's a pessimism here too.

Because if at 32nm they can manage 64gb, then I wonder if you are soon going to see a ceiling in flash nand memory storage. Surely, and correct me if i am wrong, but no one yet has manufactured anything at 22nm? So, it's not going to be an easy transition there, and even if in a years time we do have the 128gb, how much more can they fit to the form factor without a process shrink which is unlikely they will manage to go lower than 22 nm....

That said, I second everyone who said that with our media libraries and file libraries we desperately need more mobile storage.

And how about apple upgraded these ludicrously low mobileme gb limits...others are offering these types of storage for almost free, I think it's high time they doubled mobile me storage per user if you ask me...
post #49 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

These are good news for sure. But there's a pessimism here too.

Because if at 32nm they can manage 64gb, then I wonder if you are soon going to see a ceiling in flash nand memory storage. Surely, and correct me if i am wrong, but no one yet has manufactured anything at 22nm? So, it's not going to be an easy transition there, and even if in a years time we do have the 128gb, how much more can they fit to the form factor without a process shrink which is unlikely they will manage to go lower than 22 nm....

That said, I second everyone who said that with our media libraries and file libraries we desperately need more mobile storage.

And how about apple upgraded these ludicrously low mobileme gb limits...others are offering these types of storage for almost free, I think it's high time they doubled mobile me storage per user if you ask me...

22nm is the end of the road for CMOS technology so if the roadbumps come it'll be at 16nm and down because of the nanoelectronic transition.
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post #50 of 74
I don't think it's a given that it'll end up in the iPhone. If Apple's future is cloud based services then there's no need for a large capacity iPhone.

Now it would be great on a tablet.
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post #51 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

I don't think it's a given that it'll end up in the iPhone. If Apple's future is cloud based services then there's no need for a large capacity iPhone.

I dont see them as exclusive of each other. Users capacity habits have always been very different. I have always had the largest iPhone capacity, never using it all at first but within a few months of having the device running out of space. I have plenty of different media that I may not want local access to but will want on a cloud. I currently use it with iDisk on the iPhone. Ill surely go for a 64GB iPhone next summer if its offered.
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post #52 of 74
[CENTER]"640k of RAM ought to be enough for anyone"
[/CENTER]
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post #53 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I dont see them as exclusive of each other. Users capacity habits have always been very different. I have always had the largest iPhone capacity, never using it all at first but within a few months of having the device running out of space. I have plenty of different media that I may not want local access to but will want on a cloud. I currently use it with iDisk on the iPhone. Ill surely go for a 64GB iPhone next summer if its offered.

Exactly. Cloud does not mean local storage is dead.
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post #54 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I never watch a video with multiple people on my iPhone. Its a personal device.

So your entire assertion, that it "doesn't make sense" is completely ignorant of the fact that some people output theit iPod to TV. Yeah, I guess in that context, it doesn't... except that even if you're atching by yourself, you want others to be able to contact you in an emergency, don't you?

Quote:
Its a 3.5 device with a very select options for audio output. Im not going to hold a conversation while they are trying to watch a video and listen to audio. It interrupts them and I cant give my attention to the person on the other end. Either ignore the call or take the call.

And who said I wouldn't walk out of the room to take the call (to tell them I'll call them back)?
Quote:
Again, its rude to hold a phone call when someone is watching the video with you especially when that means they are also sharing the videos audio and your phone calls audio. That it rude to both other parties.

Again... output to TV... You're missing the entire point.
Quote:
I cannot fathom why you think this would be a normal behaviour pattern for people. Even when I am at home in front of a huge HDTV with its own sound system I am not so rude as take a call during with it on when other people are watching. If its important Ill leave the room or Ill pause the video to take the call. That is normal behaviour. If you feel your idea has merit then build an app that does just that and sell it.

Again, who on Earth said I wouldn't walk out of the room? But if all you have is an iPhone for playback -- you can't. That's my whole point. That it's dumb to suggest that someone can use an iPhone for playback if they turn it on airplane mode. Especially someone who says they "bought the cables and all", which implies very strongly that they're outputting to TV. That's my whole point. The iPod Touch would be a better option, and suggestions to turn it to airplane mode were silly, as even if you're watching the video by yourself, you'll want to have the option to take a call.
post #55 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

So your entire assertion, that it "doesn't make sense" is completely ignorant of the fact that some people output theit iPod to TV. Yeah, I guess in that context, it doesn't... except that even if you're atching by yourself, you want others to be able to contact you in an emergency, don't you?

And who said I wouldn't walk out of the room to take the call (to tell them I'll call them back)?

Again... output to TV... You're missing the entire point.

Again, who on Earth said I wouldn't walk out of the room? But if all you have is an iPhone for playback -- you can't. That's my whole point. That it's dumb to suggest that someone can use an iPhone for playback if they turn it on airplane mode. Especially someone who says they "bought the cables and all", which implies very strongly that they're outputting to TV. That's my whole point. The iPod Touch would be a better option, and suggestions to turn it to airplane mode were silly, as even if you're watching the video by yourself, you'll want to have the option to take a call.

1) You never stated you were using video out accessories so the reader can only assume you were using the 3.5” display with to without headphones. If you wanted to qualify the situation with accessories that don’t come with the device you should have stated it.

edit: I see you mentioned using A/V cables in earlier posts.

2) How can you "walk out of the room" if your device is connected to the TV? Are you suggesting that it’s common for people to have super long A/V cables that easily reach into other rooms? That doesn’t even being into question people connecting their iPhones to TVs for extended viewing.

3) Why should Apple ad an option that seemingly fits only your needs? There are lot of things I wish Apple would do to better fit my needs, but most of them are atypical so I am not scratching my head as to why they’re not implemented. I’d like the camera to be removed as I’d rather use a real camera if needed, but I don’t cry for it as it’s not going to happen despite being sure more people who want this more than your idea and there being rational reasons not to have a camera on a phone.
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post #56 of 74
The original poster was talking about using TV out cables to enable playback from an iPhone to a TV.

A bluetooth headset would work to take a call.

The multimedia dock comes with an IR remote to pause resume playback etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I never watch a video with multiple people on my iPhone. It’s a personal device.


It’s a 3.5” device with a very select options for audio output. I’m not going to hold a conversation while they are trying to watch a video and listen to audio. It interrupts them and I can’t give my attention to the person on the other end. Either ignore the call or take the call.


Again, it’s rude to hold a phone call when someone is watching the video with you especially when that means they are also sharing the video’s audio and your phone call’s audio. That it rude to both other parties.

I cannot fathom why you think this would be a normal behaviour pattern for people. Even when I am at home in front of a huge HDTV with its own sound system I am not so rude as take a call during with it on when other people are watching. If it’s important I’ll leave the room or I’ll pause the video to take the call. That is normal behaviour. If you feel your idea has merit then build an app that does just that and sell it.
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post #57 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The original poster was talking about using TV out cables to enable playback from an iPhone to a large screen TV.

I got into Tontons post at #33 which made no mention of that, not even in his initial reply to me. I see that the initial argument was regarding output to TV, but that doesnt alter the fact that trying to hold a conversation on a phone whilst tethering by A/V video cables that are long enough to get the user to another room to take the call privately is a silly option to expect.
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post #58 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

I did not suggest to cripple the network. Please do not put words into my mouth. Thank you.

Than don't chime in on a back and forth about "HELP[ING TO] BRING AT&T'S NETWORK TO ITS KNEES.
post #59 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

22nm is the end of the road for CMOS technology so if the roadbumps come it'll be at 16nm and down because of the nanoelectronic transition.

hey thanks for the helpful reply.
post #60 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Exactly. Cloud does not mean local storage is dead.

Don't go putting words in my mouth. I never suggested local storage is dead. I said I can't see Apple sticking a 64 Gb drive on an iPhone.

We'll find out in the fullness of time of course.
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post #61 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

Don't go putting words in my mouth. I never suggested local storage is dead. I said I can't see Apple sticking a 64 Gb drive on an iPhone.

We'll find out in the fullness of time of course.

You are correct, we cant conclude that you think local storage is dead or dying. However, based on your statement, we can conclude that you dont expect more than 32GB to ever be put into an iPhone. I dont think that is a good stance to take.
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post #62 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Underhill View Post

Don't go putting words in my mouth. I never suggested local storage is dead. I said I can't see Apple sticking a 64 Gb drive on an iPhone.

We'll find out in the fullness of time of course.

My apologies. I guess dead was a poor choice of words, but with electronics if you aren't moving forward you are dying.

I have about 25 GB on my iPhone and the remaining space is slowly filling. Now imagine a new iPhone with 720p video out (at the very least, the current iPhone could do this if Apple wanted). 32 GB isn't very much if you want to start taking a few 720p videos with you (or larger, more powerful apps). In theory videos could also be streamed, but I would imagine that many people would want some stored locally.
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post #63 of 74
If Apple starts to use cloud storage for it's mobile devices maybe there won't be a need for a doubling of memory every year. If you can stream your music and videos you won't need to carry all that local memory. Even on a 64GB device I can keep an awful lot of music and videos. I'm sure 128GB is the most I'll need on a hand-held device for a long time unless music and video format sizes change drastically.
post #64 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

My apologies. I guess dead was a poor choice of words, but with electronics if you aren't moving forward you are dying.

I have about 25 GB on my iPhone and the remaining space is slowly filling. Now imagine a new iPhone with 720p video out (at the very least, the current iPhone could do this if Apple wanted). 32 GB isn't very much if you want to start taking a few 720p videos with you (or larger, more powerful apps). In theory videos could also be streamed, but I would imagine that many people would want some stored locally.

Yes I agree that iPhones are filling up, mine is too but moving forward isn't sticking more hard drive space on an iPhone. IPod Touch, Tablet perhaps. Currently Video isn't that good an experience on an iPhone. My eyes are just about shot due to the strain.

So I see Apple moving forward to a much thinner iPhone that utilises streaming content in a much better way. I've been using spotify for several weeks now and I haven't opened iTunes since.

Apple will be aware of the growing numbers of people adopting this technology and be looking to take it to the next level.
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post #65 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You are correct, we cant conclude that you think local storage is dead or dying. However, based on your statement, we can conclude that you dont expect more than 32GB to ever be put into an iPhone. I dont think that is a good stance to take.

I have to agree with your position here, no matter how taken in people are by the concept of cloud computing it is not suitable for many. In fact I can see it being a big flop if some of the data management failures of recent times continue to happen. The biggest problem with total reliance on the cloud is reliability followed closely with accessibility.

That doesn't mean I object to some cloud concepts either, for example backing up to the cloud makes a lot of sense to me. Some of the things that Google does well make sense to be in the could such as search, but critical databases need to reside locally. More so a local back up option is needed.

Dave
post #66 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCP21 View Post

I agree i have a itouch 32gb, i find it hard to fill it, and even if i do with music when can i ever listen to that much music, its going to start a game of whose got the biggest memory

I have no music at all on my iphone yet I constantly have to manage memory used on the device. It is all about how you leverage the technology, in your unfortunate case you bought a Touch to use as an MP3 player. Frankly that is a mistake as it is much more than that. Touch and iPhone are the first of a new breed of pocketable computers that really work well. See them as that and you will quickly realize a need for all sorts of memory.

In my case I have a 3G iPhone and am chomping at the bit for more performance and storage. Frankly that means resisting the urge to update to the 3GS, to instead wait for a hopefully vastly more capable model. The little computer is, when seen in that light, is amazingly useful. If you only look at it as an MP3 player you are missing the whole point of the device.


Dave
post #67 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I have to agree with your position here, no matter how taken in people are by the concept of cloud computing it is not suitable for many. In fact I can see it being a big flop if some of the data management failures of recent times continue to happen. The biggest problem with total reliance on the cloud is reliability followed closely with accessibility.

That doesn't mean I object to some cloud concepts either, for example backing up to the cloud makes a lot of sense to me. Some of the things that Google does well make sense to be in the could such as search, but critical databases need to reside locally. More so a local back up option is needed.

Dave

I have been using iDIsk regularly since .Mac. The iPhone and Touchs iDisk app makes accessing these files pretty easy, though the app could offer more options. Now they allow you to password protect your public folder and just yesterday there was an update that appears to make the transfers much faster. I can stream videos and read PDFs I have on my iDisk to my iPhone very quickly. It certainly seems faster than using Finder on a Mac to access iDisk.
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post #68 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCP21 View Post

I agree i have a itouch 32gb, i find it hard to fill it, and even if i do with music when can i ever listen to that much music, its going to start a game of whose got the biggest memory

I'm sorry, you're just not a music fan. I've got 120GB of music on my 160GB Classic, almost all ripped from my own CD collection, and I wouldn't want to be without it. The reason is that my mood changes during the day, and I can never predict what I might want to hear, so I'd prefer to have it all available. I also don't have to waste time deciding what to sync, or neglect a good portion of my collection. Most people who have filled their Classic do so for the very same reason, and for that reason could never settle for a smaller capacity device.
post #69 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

If Apple starts to use cloud storage for it's mobile devices maybe there won't be a need for a doubling of memory every year. If you can stream your music and videos you won't need to carry all that local memory. Even on a 64GB device I can keep an awful lot of music and videos. I'm sure 128GB is the most I'll need on a hand-held device for a long time unless music and video format sizes change drastically.

There is no way that there will be enough bandwidth to do this in the foreseable future. What you are basically asking for is a continously known channel for every IPod out there. In effect your own personal broadcast station for music. Not going to happen with todays technology nor tomorrows.

As a side note this has nothing to do with AT&T at all. You could combine the resources of every cell provider going and not have the band width required. You can only move so much data in a given spectrum with a given technology. Mind you that is spectrum shared with every other service the cell provider offers.

Personally the whole way that IPhone manages it's data is why I find it attractive. I always have a backup, plus even deep under ground I can get to what is important to me. Right now a 128GB would be looking sweet on an iPhone. It ought to be enough to keep me comfortable and minimize space management.

Dave
post #70 of 74
Any Thoughts On Why The 64GB iPhone Didn't Happen This Year? I was very surprised based on having read this article last December. And does this mean we won't see the 128GB iPod Touch and iPad this Fall? My 64GB iPod Touch is full and I sure could use another 64GB of space in the next model.

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post #71 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post

Any Thoughts On Why The 64GB iPhone Didn't Happen This Year? I was very surprised based on having read this article last December. And does this mean we won't see the 128GB iPod Touch and iPad this Fall? My 64GB iPod Touch is full and I sure could use another 64GB of space in the next model.

Toshiba are moving to higher density NAND as we speak and are due to go into mass production in July-September. We'll know for certain when the new MBA hits as it uses Toshiba NAND too. I expect 128GB Air on the entry level, 128GB iPod and 64GB iPhone 4S over the next 3 months.
post #72 of 74
Just out of curiosity, what does this have to do with Apple? I don't understand how an announcement of a new flash memory product correlates directly to Apple. It could have just as easily pertained to any other company that uses that type of memory but Engadget can't stand to have an article that doesn't involve Apple if it can be avoided \.
post #73 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Toshiba are moving to higher density NAND as we speak and are due to go into mass production in July-September. We'll know for certain when the new MBA hits as it uses Toshiba NAND too. I expect 128GB Air on the entry level, 128GB iPod and 64GB iPhone 4S over the next 3 months.

In this case write durability is taking a big hit. It is my understanding that it is taking Apple far longer than expected to validate and approve for use the new chips. Beyond the write durability issue the ultra high density flash chips apparently have a short retention period. Where the old tech could hold data for say ten years the new tech might start to loose info after a year.

How true any of this is is open for discussion. The durability issue isn't a secrete so there is likely some validity to the idea that it is taking a very long time to approve the tech for build in.
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