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Research in Motion sells record 10M BlackBerries in 3Q

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
Apple competitor Research in Motion had a blockbuster quarter, selling 10.1 million handsets and earning $3.92 billion in revenue in the three-month frame ending in November.

RIM's total revenue for its third quarter of fiscal 2010 was up 11 percent from the previous frame, and 41 percent year-over-year. Most of the company's revenue -- 82 percent -- came from devices, while 14 percent came from service, 2 percent software, and 2 percent other revenue. Net income for the quarter was $628.4 million, or $1.10 per diluted share, well up from the $396.3 million earned a year prior.

"We are pleased to report record shipments of more than 10 million BlackBerry smartphones during the third quarter with higher than expected revenue, earnings and subscriber growth," said Jim Balsillie, Co-CEO at Research In Motion.

"RIM is experiencing a great start to the holiday buying season and the strong Q3 results and Q4 outlook clearly reflect the strength of our diversified product portfolio as well as the success of our efforts to expand into broader customer segments and new geographies while maintaining our strong position in North America."

BlackBerry gained 4.4 million subscriber accounts during the three-month period. Currently, there are about 36 million total subscribers.

For comparison to RIM's record 10.1 million BlackBerry sales, Apple in its last financial quarter sold a record 7.4 million iPhones. Some analysts believe Apple could also crack the 10 million barrier in the December quarter.

However, RIM's quarters are offset a month from Apple, so there are never true direct comparisons for unit shipments. Next month Apple will reports its next quarterly results for the frame ending in December. But RIM's December totals will not be reported for another three months.

This week, a new survey from research firm comScore found that handsets from both RIM and Apple have grown exponentially in market share since February. As of October, RIM was said to have nearly 15 million devices in the U.S. market, while Apple has grown steadily to nearly 9 million.

Update: Analysts were positive in reaction to this week's earnings report. Shaw Wu with Kaufman Bros. reiterated his "buy" rating for RIMM stock.

"Our long-standing view is that Apple remains RIM's only true competitor, but we believe there is plenty of room for both to succeed," Wu said in a note to investors. "Combined, we estimate RIM and Apple have only 5%-6% share of the total global cell phone market."

Mike Abramsky of RBC Capital Markets noted that the company issued "knockout" guidance for its fourth quarter, with an outlook of $4.2 billion to $4.4 billion in revenue.

He noted that the possibility of an iPhone debut with Verizon in 2010 has helped to keep the value of shares down. But RBC Capital Markets has estimated that a Verizon iPhone would reduce BlackBerry sales on the carrier by just 4 percent of its 60 million estimated sales for calendar year 2011.

And analyst Robert Cihra with Caris & Company alluded to Apple at the start of his note: "Guess there's room for more than one good smartphone." He expects Android, BlackBerry and the iPhone to all grow. RIM's share is predicted to expand from 3 percent this year to 4 percent in 2011. The losers will be "legacy voice-centric incumbents," Cihra said.

"We think macro smartphone tailwinds offer more than enough market opportunity to sustain BlackBerry growth, which still accounts for just ~3% of all cell phones (similar to iPhone)," he wrote, "and ultimate remains one of just a handful of viable software platform contenders for share in a smartphone pie we see growing +30% to >220mm units in 2010."
post #2 of 41
RIMM ASP are lower than iPhone's and so are margins. Meanwhile, YOY growth of the iPhone has exceeded RIMM. I would expect the sequential growth to do well. More like 40% and closer to 11M based on the stats published on AI.
post #3 of 41
The iPhone is the best thing to have happened to RIM. Already dominant in the smartphone space, RIM had little room to grow. Apple comes along and makes the smartphone "for the rest of us," thus expanding the market overall. RIM begins to grow again as more non-business types start buying smartphones. Good for both.
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post #4 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

The iPhone is the best thing to have happened to RIM. Already dominant in the smartphone space, RIM had little room to grow. Apple comes along and makes the smartphone "for the rest of us," thus expanding the market overall. RIM begins to grow again as more non-business types start buying smartphones. Good for both.

better devices sell more... where's the news here?
post #5 of 41
The lower ASP is because RIM has pushed its sales with buy one get one free deals, which Apple does not do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

RIMM ASP are lower than iPhone's and so are margins. Meanwhile, YOY growth of the iPhone has exceeded RIMM. I would expect the sequential growth to do well. More like 40% and closer to 11M based on the stats published on AI.
post #6 of 41
10 million phones "sold" but only 4.4 million activated? where are the rest? ebay? garbage?
post #7 of 41
How many of these 10 million are attributable to the "Buy 1 Get 1 Free" offer?
post #8 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

10 million phones "sold" but only 4.4 million activated? where are the rest? ebay? garbage?

The article said they "gained 4.4 million," implying that the rest were probably older customers getting new Blackberries.
post #9 of 41
When are people going to stop using the term "barrier" to describe what should be called a "milestone" or a "mark" or even a "plateau" ?

At least in the case of the "sound-barrier" there were folks who thought that the physics relative to our best technical efforts would be insurmountable. On the other hand I think there are many cases where someone decided that their was a barrier (four minute mile perhaps) before any serious effort to test that "limit"

to me a barrier is something that actively (or passively) blocks or prevents attainment of that goal or position. Say for example the altitude at which there is insufficient oxygen to breathe - that is a barrier - because no matter what you do - you cannot breathe past that point unless you bring your own oxygen. Or the blood-brain barrier which keeps lots of stuff from passing from the blood stream into the brain (at least when it is working properly).

A 10 million unit per quarter "barrier" would only exist if there was some factor such as manufacturing capability of the component suppliers or the number of available subscribers that was limiting the available units or the potential customers.

In fact - by using the term "barrier" you can artificially limit people from even trying to overcome whatever the supposed limitation is. For example, for many years no looked for the bacteria that causes stomach ulcers because someone decided that bacteria cannot survive in the acid environment of the stomach - so no one bothered to look - and when someone finally did it took about 10 years for anyone to believe him.

So the only "barrier" that I can think of to 10 million iPhone unit sales is historical data that says it has not happened yet - but I would think that same historical data ought to lend itself to an extrapolation that would suggest when that 10 million unit mark would be achieved. Even if the iPhone never sells 10 million units in a given quarter before it is withdrawn entirely and is no longer sold would not mean that there was a "barrier"
post #10 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

RIMM ASP are lower than iPhone's and so are margins.

Don't forget that RIM gets a cut of carrier revenue too. A lower ASP is balanced by steady monthly income.
post #11 of 41
Only because the iPhone is limited to a single carrier... If iPhone would get Verizon, I think RIM's days would be numbered.
post #12 of 41
Quote:
Apple competitor Research in Motion had a blockbuster quarter, selling 10.1 million handsets and earning $3.92 billion in revenue in the three-month frame ending in November.


Uh, this should have been Apple's 10.1 million handsets sold, but then Apple doesn't cater to the business market, only consumers.

Apple just wants to make a limited line of consumer products, that's their problem and always has been.

Wonder why Mac's are ignored in business? Now you know.


Apple could take over Windows in business, MS Office would just be a priority on Mac's instead of PC's that's all.
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post #13 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk View Post

How many of these 10 million are attributable to the "Buy 1 Get 1 Free" offer?

Who knows? But if a marketing model works, it works. As much sh*t as we give RIM for their sales being driven by Verizon's BOGO deal, it's clearly a successful marketing technique. The numbers here show it.

I'm surprised that AT&T and Apple haven't tried something similar. Sure, they don't need to. But could you imagine the influx of new customers if they did that?
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post #14 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

When are people going to stop using the term "barrier" to describe what should be called a "milestone" or a "mark" or even a "plateau" ?

Not that I'm telling you anything you don't already know, but this sort of misapplication of terms is extremely common. It's similar to the automatic use of the term "Apple faithful" by many in the media to describe Apple's customers, apparently without giving a thought to what that actually implies. Anyway, few will care, but you get points from me for noticing.
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post #15 of 41
Wow.....expect apples market share to go down. Now all we need is a new iphone......
post #16 of 41
Wait for Apple to post its numbers for the quarter. THAT will be impressive.

Apple will still surpass RIM's share. It's going to happen.
post #17 of 41
Apple is doing well but they are sort of fighting RIM with one arm tied behind their back due to their own self-limiting behavior. RIM sells a touch screen model (Storm2) and also clamshell, straight keyboard, etc. They sell on AT&T, Verizon, T-mobile, Sprint and around the world as well.

Since all data goes through RIM servers, it can be compressed to help deal with the load on carrier bandwidth.

In short they manage to do well by doing everything Apple can't and won't.

That doesn't mean Apple needs to change, but they do need to realize that when they won't fill a space, someone else will. Imagine how much more difficult the MP3 market would be if Apple only sold the iPod Touch and no Mini, Nano or Classic.

One size doesn't fit all. That shouldn't be a surprise.

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post #18 of 41
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BH3AI20091218

BlackBerry-maker Research In Motion fails to dispel doubts

"BlackBerry maker Research In Motion may have zipped past expectations for its quarterly results and forecast, but it hasn't dispelled all doubts about its staying power to lead the race," Susan Taylor and Ritsuko Ando report for Reuters. "Even as RIM's stock jumped 10 percent on Friday, analysts were questioning the company's ability to maintain profit margins as it battles for market share with rival products, such as Apple's iPhone."

RIM shipped a record-breaking 10.1 million phones in the third quarter and expects to ship 10.6-11.2 million phones in the current quarter at an average selling price of $320. But strong international sales masked a string of structural weaknesses, said Sanford C. Bernstein analyst Pierre Ferragu."

"Charter Equity Research analyst Ed Snyder thinks Waterloo, Ontario-based RIM is still behind the curve. He said the BlackBerry maker will face 'a difficult period ahead as it reaches further down the value chain to fuel its growth,'" Taylor and Ando report. "RIM has cornered the corporate market, but it has not yet launched a touchscreen, media-centric phone that captures consumer imagination, he said."


Buy One, Get One Free, will only get you so far. It helps with # of units shipped, but Apple stil has yet to report the result of their holiday quarter. And RIM's Storm devices are hardly designed to serve the user. The writing is on the wall and RIM needs to start pulling rabbits out of hats. Nice numbers, but the story behind the story isn't too promising.
post #19 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Buy One, Get One Free, will only get you so far. It helps with # of units shipped, but Apple stil has yet to report the result of their holiday quarter. And RIM's Storm devices are hardly designed to serve the user. The writing is on the wall and RIM needs to start pulling rabbits out of hats. Nice numbers, but the story behind the story isn't too promising.

But yet the Reuters also released this article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN...pe=marketsNews

"MKM Partners LLC analyst Tero Kuittinen said the sales outlook is a strong signal that RIM is successfully cracking the consumer market.

"That's a major positive surprise because people have been very skeptical about the February quarter," he said. "People wrote off RIM too soon.""


""The fact that they beat by more than half a million units in shipments in Q3 would seem to imply that they either maintained market share or took market share, and that the consumer business was quite good. I mean, they beat by a lot.""

"Some analysts say competition concerns are overblown and reflected an underestimate of the ongoing growth of the smartphone market."

See, I can find an article to twist in RIM's favor just like you can find an article to twist against RIM.

While I don't disagree that RIM will continue to have a hard battle ahead as its competitors continue to gain (especially Apple and Google), I disagree in your "doom and gloom" assessment for RIM. And yes, those are nice numbers. A rise in profits and sales tends to mean that people are buying. They even posted profits as they fumbled through their first Storm launch. And continue to post these profits when the Storm2 was introduced with slightly less fanfare.

Hardly designed to serve the user? All depends on who you talk to. For a smartphone that you navigate with a trackball/trackpad and physical keyboard (besides the Storm line, which I'm assuming you are mainly referring to), it's one of the better, if not best, systems out there. There are a lot of people out there that will argue with you that having a physical keyboard is essential and BlackBerries have some of the best designs in the industry. I've seen plenty of high school and even junior high students walking around the mall with BlackBerries in-hand texting away. If they can figure the supposedly complex interface out, then well... And I know of plenty of coworkers and friends who wouldn't give up their BlackBerry. There's a reason why it's called a CrackBerry.
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post #20 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

But yet the Reuters also released this article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN...pe=marketsNews

"MKM Partners LLC analyst Tero Kuittinen said the sales outlook is a strong signal that RIM is successfully cracking the consumer market.

"That's a major positive surprise because people have been very skeptical about the February quarter," he said. "People wrote off RIM too soon.""


""The fact that they beat by more than half a million units in shipments in Q3 would seem to imply that they either maintained market share or took market share, and that the consumer business was quite good. I mean, they beat by a lot.""

"Some analysts say competition concerns are overblown and reflected an underestimate of the ongoing growth of the smartphone market."

See, I can find an article to twist in RIM's favor just like you can find an article to twist against RIM.
.

Nice find.
post #21 of 41
They are probably POS Storms swapped under RiMS replacement warranty.

The Storm is easily the most problematic handset we sell, usually after 3 or 4 replacements we offer customers iPhones (as the pricing here is exactly the same) and then we don't see them again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk View Post

The article said they "gained 4.4 million," implying that the rest were probably older customers getting new Blackberries.
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post #22 of 41
the thing that worries me about rim is that ms might buy them
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

RIMM ASP are lower than iPhone's and so are margins. Meanwhile, YOY growth of the iPhone has exceeded RIMM. I would expect the sequential growth to do well. More like 40% and closer to 11M based on the stats published on AI.

If RIM sells that many [a lot of the lower priced models included] this is only good news for Apple who will even surpass that number and thus extremely bad news for Nokia--the biggest fish in the sea seeing itself become a throw away vendor.
post #24 of 41
RIM's days are numbered - at least in my organization. The majority of our executives already have personal iPhones. As soon as Apple gets FIPS 140-2 compliance, the gloves are off. Both Exchange and Lotus Domino support Active Sync. I'd wager a good dinner that the next iteration of the iPhone OS will be released with or near a new version of ActiveSync that supports over the air provisioning. And that will be the final nail. All the security, management without any requirement for a separate server, CAL, shipping all my data to Canada...
post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

the thing that worries me about rim is that ms might buy them

Only if you are a RIM shareholder
post #26 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Only if you are a RIM shareholder

As you said above, their days are numbered. Theyre riding the smartphone influx right now but with less profit per unit and with an ever increasing risk of BES sales and per unit yearly subscriptions plummeting. Even when they change their business model I think theyre going to suffer great financial lose while still being a major player.

Being bought by MS might be the best thing for their stockholders as the value will skyrocket when that rumour hits.

I sold my RiM stock in 2008 before the market crash. Even with their nice bump today I am glad i sold my stock. I do with i had bought more Amazon and bought into Palm when the Pre rumours hit, oh well, there will be more opportunities in the future for bull trading in a bear market.
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post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

They are probably POS Storms swapped under RiMS replacement warranty.

The Storm is easily the most problematic handset we sell, usually after 3 or 4 replacements we offer customers iPhones (as the pricing here is exactly the same) and then we don't see them again.

Sad when the only ammo you have is the storm, the 9550 is much more reliable than the 9530 (I know I had one believe me) and no horrible software out the box like .65 that was on the original.

Believe you and me I was happy as hell to switch from my Storm to my Bold.






Btw, how many of you are eating your words right now cause you thought RIM was dying? Lulz

EDIT: as you can see many users are loyal to RIM as they continuously buy updated products, there is a reason its called CRACKberry and why said website has almost 2 million registered users.
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Sad when the only ammo you have is the storm, the 9550 is much more reliable than the 9530 (I know I had one believe me) and no horrible software out the box like .65 that was on the original.

Believe you and me I was happy as hell to switch from my Storm to my Bold.






Btw, how many of you are eating your words right now cause you thought RIM was dying? Lulz

EDIT: as you can see many users are loyal to RIM as they continuously buy updated products, there is a reason its called CRACKberry and why said website has almost 2 million registered users.

Times are changing. The great advantages that Blackberries have are gradually being eclipsed. Buy One Get One Free only works for so long. It's all about Apps, content, media, games, etc. Apple will eclipse RIM soon enough.
post #29 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Wait for Apple to post its numbers for the quarter. THAT will be impressive.

Apple will still surpass RIM's share. It's going to happen.

I've been traveling in Europe this week, and the number of iPhones I've seen are simply stunning. Vastly different compared to less than a year ago. (I am also seeing a visibly higher number of Macs in airline lounges, again compared to a year ago; for instance, in a bay that I am seated in, there are 6 people -- 4 Macs, on HP, one with no computer but she's talking on an iPhone).

I think Apple's non-US numbers will come in particularly impressively in the last quarter of the calendar year.
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Times are changing. The great advantages that Blackberries have are gradually being eclipsed. Buy One Get One Free only works for so long. It's all about Apps, content, media, games, etc. Apple will eclipse RIM soon enough.

Yah because RIM totally sells those phones BOGO and not Verizon right?

Yeah, and its not like my berry has Apps content media games etc at all right. The only thing the times are showing are that Blackberry and iPhone are the two main upcoming titans in the smartphone arena, and with RIM expanding into new regions expect numbers to continue to grow.

RIM has been slowly (i mean slowly) implementing new features because of competition, and Apple has done the same (and just as slow as well...) i for one welcome this with open arms, cause that means sales will force creativity and innovation and make each respective platforms better (id like to hear more on the next gen iphone than "Verizon"...)
post #31 of 41
What everyone's forgetting is that RIMM sells phones in more countries and has more carriers than the iPhone, RIMM is very successful is sucking up customers that Nokia could have had if they were building a smartphone that more people wanted/could afford.

The numbers released on sales etc are international numbers.
post #32 of 41
What is drawing my special attention to BlackBerries is they are useable in what we call "Unik" mode. Which means this is 3G phone outside of WiFi coverage being capable of becoming IP phone on the WiFi network of same carrier's box with carrier-assured connection quality and conditions. iPhone is light-years behind this business case. The problem is I can't take cheapo-crapo hardware keyboards anymore...

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post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

The iPhone is the best thing to have happened to RIM. Already dominant in the smartphone space, RIM had little room to grow. Apple comes along and makes the smartphone "for the rest of us," thus expanding the market overall. RIM begins to grow again as more non-business types start buying smartphones. Good for both.

Except this isn't even remotely true. The iPhone created smartphone users out of NON smartphone users. Something RIM's entire product line could not, with a massive headstart.

After 3 years of iPhone, RIM products look dated and antiquated, and they are. There certainly WAS room for RIM to grow during the last 3 years. They did not, because they did not introduce a relevant product. (their idea on how to combat the iPhone problem was the Storm, and Storm2. They failed, utterly.)

In the next 3 years, RIM is going to do very poorly.
post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

the thing that worries me about rim is that ms might buy them

oh that would be the death shrill of the BBs...
post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

Except this isn't even remotely true. The iPhone created smartphone users out of NON smartphone users. Something RIM's entire product line could not, with a massive headstart.

After 3 years of iPhone, RIM products look dated and antiquated, and they are. There certainly WAS room for RIM to grow during the last 3 years. They did not, because they did not introduce a relevant product. (their idea on how to combat the iPhone problem was the Storm, and Storm2. They failed, utterly.)

In the next 3 years, RIM is going to do very poorly.

How is his comment not true at all? Look back to the history of RIM's earnings and sales since the iPhone's introduction in 2007. It's been a steady rise upwards pretty much all the time. Enterprise only accounts for a portion of those sales and now more and more sales are being generated by non-enterprise users (something close to 70 or 80%, if I'm not mistaken). Just walking around, I've seen more BlackBerries in use by all ages than I've ever seen before the iPhone was introduced.

And how did RIM itself not grow? It was labeled the fastest growing company by Forbes. They've launched many new models, including the controversial touchscreen Storm line, started App World, brought in many new developers, and added OpenGL ES to BlackBerries. And aquired companies that specialize where they lack (read: browser). While they are late to add these things, they're still going forward and implementing them.

RIM has done plenty to open new doors for themselves. In the next 3 years, RIM will continue to do well for themselves. While they might not do as well as Apple, they won't keel over and die (like you're implying) either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

oh that would be the death shrill of the BBs...

Which is why RIM will definitely reject any offer MS will make.
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post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

How is his comment not true at all? Look back to the history of RIM's earnings and sales since the iPhone's introduction in 2007. It's been a steady rise upwards pretty much all the time. Enterprise only accounts for a portion of those sales and now more and more sales are being generated by non-enterprise users (something close to 70 or 80%, if I'm not mistaken). Just walking around, I've seen more BlackBerries in use by all ages than I've ever seen before the iPhone was introduced.

And how did RIM itself not grow? It was labeled the fastest growing company by Forbes. They've launched many new models, including the controversial touchscreen Storm line, started App World, brought in many new developers, and added OpenGL ES to BlackBerries. And aquired companies that specialize where they lack (read: browser). While they are late to add these things, they're still going forward and implementing them.

RIM has done plenty to open new doors for themselves. In the next 3 years, RIM will continue to do well for themselves. While they might not do as well as Apple, they won't keel over and die (like you're implying) either.



Which is why RIM will definitely reject any offer MS will make.

Jesus I have been saying this all along now, apple worshipers seem to think RIM is going to just fall.

Also to my knowledge I believe Apple is in more countries than RIM is currently
post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

RIM has done plenty to open new doors for themselves. In the next 3 years, RIM will continue to do well for themselves. While they might not do as well as Apple, they won't keel over and die (like you're implying) either.

I don't think so. There is such a pent up demand for company approved iPhones in my organization it isn't even funny. Every time I pull my personal iPhone out, everyone asks "oh, do we have the iPhone now?!?" since they know I am involved in email. And they are always disappointed when I say "not yet" and point out it's my personal iPhone.

And without the costs of BES server fees, CALs and special data plans, I expect the number of mobile users to dramatically increase once the iPhone is approved for use in our organization. Those aren't just conversions, but new users entirely. Both Notes and Exchange now support ActivSync - that's 90% of corporate America.

Apple just needs two things - FIPS 140.2 certification (the security people are hung up on that) and wireless provisioning. I expect both of those to be offered by this June. Apple is keenly aware these are their last major stumbling blocks to the enterprise - I know because I talk with the Apple enterprise folks. For all those who assume Apple is clueless on the Enterprise they couldn't be more wrong. Just like Apple refuses to enter the bargain basement high volume low margin market, the aren't ready to push into the Enterprise just yet. They had way to many things to fix in the foundations of Mac OSX - but now with SL, I think you are going to see a shift in strategy over time. The foundations for Mac OSX are now pretty set - major API shifts should be the exception rather then the rule, they have much better integration with AD and Exchange, etc. so now it makes sense for them to firm up that part of their strategy.

Same with the iPhone. Apple is still having problems meeting current demand, and they know they still have a few holes (security, management) to plug. I expect these to be solved by June with the next iPhone and iPhone OS. I would imagine a 3GS or higher will be required because of the encryption built in to the hardware, and I find it interesting that there is a new manufacturer for the new iPhone rumored to be coming online. Sounds like they are gearing up to me (not that it's a hard prediction to make!).

RIM has a serious issue - Apple just has to plug the last couple of holes in their enterprise strategy to match them. To compete RIM not only needs some compelling hardware, but also a complete applications story. While nice and a quantum leap above previous BB hardware (not that it's hard), the Bold still isn't an iPhone - the screen is half the height and the OS still feels clunky compared to the iPhone. Simple operations in the BB mail app are still counter-intuative and frustrating. Apple's development tools are significantly better and more flexible, and there is great interest in corporate space. With wireless provisioning and management the last significant barrier to the iPhone in the enterprise goes out the window and the floodgates will open. Not only will people be using them for email, but in-house developed applications. Right now it is a fair criticism to say enterprise application management on the iPhone is clunky - I don't expect it to stay that way for long. Just like in the consumer space, applications are going to be the killer feature driving iPhone adoption.

Having said all that, I'm still waiting for a fold out keyboard I can plug my iPhone into via the dock connector like I had for my Palm Pilot: http://www.anu.edu.au/disabilities/a.../index.php?p=1

Don't want bluetooth - it's a hassle and battery drain. Plus the keyboard doubles as a stand. Getting tired of waiting
post #38 of 41
[QUOTE=DocNo42;1538480]I don't think so. There is such a pent up demand for company approved iPhones in my organization it isn't even funny. Every time I pull my personal iPhone out, everyone asks "oh, do we have the iPhone now?!?" since they know I am involved in email. And they are always disappointed when I say "not yet" and point out it's my personal iPhone.

And without the costs of BES server fees, CALs and special data plans, I expect the number of mobile users to dramatically increase once the iPhone is approved for use in our organization. Those aren't just conversions, but new users entirely. Both Notes and Exchange now support ActivSync - that's 90% of corporate America.

Apple just needs two things - FIPS 140.2 certification (the security people are hung up on that) and wireless provisioning. I expect both of those to be offered by this June. Apple is keenly aware these are their last major stumbling blocks to the enterprise - I know because I talk with the Apple enterprise folks. For all those who assume Apple is clueless on the Enterprise they couldn't be more wrong. Just like Apple refuses to enter the bargain basement high volume low margin market, the aren't ready to push into the Enterprise just yet. They had way to many things to fix in the foundations of Mac OSX - but now with SL, I think you are going to see a shift in strategy over time. The foundations for Mac OSX are now pretty set - major API shifts should be the exception rather then the rule, they have much better integration with AD and Exchange, etc. so now it makes sense for them to firm up that part of their strategy.

Same with the iPhone. Apple is still having problems meeting current demand, and they know they still have a few holes (security, management) to plug. I expect these to be solved by June with the next iPhone and iPhone OS. I would imagine a 3GS or higher will be required because of the encryption built in to the hardware, and I find it interesting that there is a new manufacturer for the new iPhone rumored to be coming online. Sounds like they are gearing up to me (not that it's a hard prediction to make!).

RIM has a serious issue - Apple just has to plug the last couple of holes in their enterprise strategy to match them. To compete RIM not only needs some compelling hardware, but also a complete applications story. While nice and a quantum leap above previous BB hardware (not that it's hard), the Bold still isn't an iPhone - the screen is half the height and the OS still feels clunky compared to the iPhone. Simple operations in the BB mail app are still counter-intuative and frustrating. Apple's development tools are significantly better and more flexible, and there is great interest in corporate space. With wireless provisioning and management the last significant barrier to the iPhone in the enterprise goes out the window and the floodgates will open. Not only will people be using them for email, but in-house developed applications. Right now it is a fair criticism to say enterprise application management on the iPhone is clunky - I don't expect it to stay that way for long. Just like in the consumer space, applications are going to be the killer feature driving iPhone adoption.
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You talk a good game but the likelyhood of Apple gets FIPS is a joke. They can't keep the iPhone from being jailbroke 1 week after each OS update. Trust me it's a huge issue and provides a means to disable ActiveSync policy.

Your other phantom solution is how Apple will improve security / management. How their own platform? You better bet it will have the same server and CAL costs as RIM's solution. Apple is tied to Microsoft's hip - they need Exchange ActiveSync or it won't function. The issue is EAS alone doesn't provide half the policy BES does. Even with Exchange 2010 it's not close. Last I looked there is no less then 10 EAS based management solutions that support iPhone - none of them match Blackberry's solution and their cost is 2x the cost of our current BES CAL. So what will we gain? iPhones with entertainment and users downloading crap?

The other issue is Apple controls all Application deployment. We want to control that which we can do through BES. No need for Apple, approval etc. We also control how / when we deploy said applications.

In the post Madoff world there is a growing need to supervise SMS (or disable it) Apple doesn't provide that - hopefully the next OS / model will.

Which brings my last point - Apple just wants you to upgrade which is fine for consumers but we're not about to upgrade our mobile deployment yearly. Presently we get 3 years per device. They also have little to no enterprise support in place. They actually suggested to go to the nearest Apple store. Cute.

We don't support iPhone, don't allow personal liable devices and it's likely not going to change anytime soon.
post #39 of 41
How do you keep people from installing new ROM's on a winmo based phone, they are jailbroken before the OS updates come out (WinMo 7 beta ROMS should show up soon, just like 6.5, 6.1, 6.0 etc.)

Isn't that the same argument?

Does enterprise use WinMo, isn't it too "open" compared to Apple's "closed" system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileAdmin View Post

[You talk a good game but the likelyhood of Apple gets FIPS is a joke. They can't keep the iPhone from being jailbroke 1 week after each OS update. Trust me it's a huge issue and provides a means to disable ActiveSync policy.
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post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileAdmin View Post

You talk a good game but the likelyhood of Apple gets FIPS is a joke.

Actually, it's not.

Quote:
They can't keep the iPhone from being jailbroke 1 week after each OS update. Trust me it's a huge issue and provides a means to disable ActiveSync policy.

Jailbraking and FIPS certification are not related.

If you have physical access to a device, you can hack it - even a blackberry. They key is detecting and not communicating with hacked devices. Look for more cryptography built on what was started with the 3Gs.

It's not rocket science to see where they are going

One other thing about security - we have blackberries that are like pre-3Gs iPhones - they take hours to do a secure wipe. That never gets brought up yet every iPhone but the 3Gs is unacceptable for the enterprise? Talk about bias and unevenly applied standards.

Quote:
Your other phantom solution is how Apple will improve security / management. How their own platform? You better bet it will have the same server and CAL costs as RIM's solution. Apple is tied to Microsoft's hip - they need Exchange ActiveSync or it won't function.

ActiveSync is the enterprise solution for Apple - why do they need to develop their own? Even IBM has licensed it and is giving it away with Domino 8.51. Exchange and Domino cover over 80% of enterprise seats. Game over.

Quote:
The issue is EAS alone doesn't provide half the policy BES does.

Not right now. By June that will change.

Quote:
Even with Exchange 2010 it's not close.

I doubt the upcoming changes in ActiveSync will require Exchange 2010 - I haven't seen anything indicating that Exchange 2007 won't also get them.

Quote:
Last I looked there is no less then 10 EAS based management solutions that support iPhone - none of them match Blackberry's solution and their cost is 2x the cost of our current BES CAL. So what will we gain? iPhones with entertainment and users downloading crap?

Yes, there are third party solutions - heck, there are third party add-ons for blackberry's (I never did get that). The existence of tools doesn't automatically translate into deficiencies - just good marketing on the part of the tool makers convincing people they are required.

Quote:
The other issue is Apple controls all Application deployment.

No they don't. Not for the enterprise. You can self-publish. Granted, right now it's kludgy and requires iTunes, but I guarantee they will offer application provisioning over the air. Apple is keenly aware of the requirements for the enterprise. It took RIM over 10 years to get there, Apple is just now coming on year four...

Quote:
We want to control that which we can do through BES. No need for Apple, approval etc. We also control how / when we deploy said applications.

You might want to read the iPhone enterprise deployment guide. You are uninformed.

Quote:
In the post Madoff world there is a growing need to supervise SMS (or disable it) Apple doesn't provide that - hopefully the next OS / model will.

I expect management to be a VERY prominent part of of the next iPhone OS, along with a new version of ActiveSync from MS.

Quote:
Which brings my last point - Apple just wants you to upgrade which is fine for consumers but we're not about to upgrade our mobile deployment yearly. Presently we get 3 years per device. They also have little to no enterprise support in place. They actually suggested to go to the nearest Apple store. Cute.

What? There is no reason you couldn't get three years out of an iPhone - but I find it very hard to believe you can get three years out of a device with normal users. Two years seems to be our average. If you have an enterprise agreement with Apple you can get next day and four hour response. Do you know who your enterprise rep is?

Quote:
We don't support iPhone, don't allow personal liable devices and it's likely not going to change anytime soon.

You may not have much to say about it. The days of IT autocratically dictating to the user base are fast dying. If you aren't flexible enough, you may just get outsourced.

Like it or not, the iPhone is coming to the enterprise. You can keep up or put your head in the sand and get passed by. Your choice. Makes no difference to me
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