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Apple's Steve Jobs named world's best-performing CEO - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

I don't, someone else thought it mattered -- I was explaining why it doesn't matter. Dividends is what I'd like.

Not sure about that. Will signal that is has become a 'value' stock, with diminished growth opportunities.
post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

In all fairness, this is a better perspective on 'A Question of Taste' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBISzVRmYIM&NR=1

and this as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSt5j...eature=related

and then there is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhjVi...eature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FytWjEd2gcg&NR=1

Youve out-hyperlinked Quadra. I think that may be seen as a challenge to him.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwhite1000 View Post

I can never forgive Steve Jobs for his continued insistence on having ATT as the carrier for iPhone. The iPhone is a great piece of technology made into a joke by ATTs shoddy network. It is the equivalent of going to a fine restaurant and being served up a real nice steak on a trashcan lid.

The only other solution would have been T-Mobile, their network and corporate backing would not have been able to support the traffic either. And, don't suggest Verizon, you might as well suggest that Apple run Windows and drop OS X. Apple picked the technology with the greatest Market Share World Wide and then made only ONE phone model (with different capacities) thereby maximizing return on investment as opposed to fragmenting their offerings and increasing costs by supporting differing technologies and providing different models for different markets. China is a great example of what would have happened had they done that. They made a custom model to support the Chinese Government restrictions and have sold just north of 100K units compared to the Millions of unrestricted grey market phones in the country.
KennDDS
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KennDDS
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post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

You claim to be a shareholder, so I'm curious why you would want the stock to split. You do realize how stock splits work, right? Double the shares, but half the value per share. You're right back where you started, except now the stock is cheaper and there's more volatility. Ask Google or Berkshire Hathaway about stock splitting. Sorry to hear whatever mental block you have which makes you think two $100 shares is somehow better than one $200 share.

It's not my mental block, but conventional wisdom says that the market likes to see more "affordable" stock and that there's a sweet spot for the equity in question. Anyhow, please look at other replies to your comment.

I purchased my shares just before Apple split the stock the last time and they seem to have done quite nicely. Apple has not backed away from splitting shares, but it looks like they have chosen to move to a higher price window.

It is curious that you mentioned Google and Berkshire Hathaway, as I own shares in both of those companies as well.

I don't actually know what Google's stance on stock splits is; no one outside of Google does because they won't comment on it. I bought around 300 and they are trading near 600. In any case, my ROI on Google is nothing like my ROI on Apple.

I will also mention that if you are a Berkshire Hathaway shareholder of Class B stock, you should have recently received a proxy ballot: the board is proposing a 50-to-1 split of the Class B shares.

There are several reasons why Berkshire Hathaway wants to split the Class B shares. One reason stated by Warren himself was to give small fry investors of Burlington Northern (pending acquisition target and S&P 500 component) a piece of Berkshire Hathaway. Naturally, this affordability would affect any retail investor. This drives up trading volume and makes Berkshire Hathaway a more convincing candidate to be on the S&P 500 itself. That would force index funds to add shares which would also increase trading traffic.
post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwhite1000 View Post

I can never forgive Steve Jobs for his continued insistence on having ATT as the carrier for iPhone. The iPhone is a great piece of technology made into a joke by ATTs shoddy network. It is the equivalent of going to a fine restaurant and being served up a real nice steak on a trashcan lid.

It's probably because he had no choice in the beginning.

It was a new market for Apple, it was a risk for AT&T.

It could have flopped.

The carriers are in competition with each other, they don't like someone who is working both camps.

Now the iPhone is very popular, AT&T is overloaded, they can't expect Apple to remain solely on their network.

The iPhone has outgrown one carrier, it's time for it to be universal.

Apple could only get this way through strength, to be able to make deals across the board.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog View Post

thanks, now just go away.

Your ignored now, try it, it's in your user CP

don't forget the name MacTripper, you'll need that.

see ya.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennMSr View Post

The only other solution would have been T-Mobile, their network and corporate backing would not have been able to support the traffic either. And, don't suggest Verizon, you might as well suggest that Apple run Windows and drop OS X. Apple picked the technology with the greatest Market Share World Wide and then made only ONE phone model (with different capacities) thereby maximizing return on investment as opposed to fragmenting their offerings and increasing costs by supporting differing technologies and providing different models for different markets. China is a great example of what would have happened had they done that. They made a custom model to support the Chinese Government restrictions and have sold just north of 100K units compared to the Millions of unrestricted grey market phones in the country.

It would have not been hard at all to build a model compatible with Verizon and would have cost peanuts to do so.
post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You’ve out-hyperlinked Quadra. I think that may be seen as a challenge to him.

I doubt it. Quadra, like myself appreciates backing up our statements. Unfortunately, it isn't reciprocated enough.

I learn a lot from digging deeper, particularly reading news sites. Sound bites are just too small to base your future on. And as we have seen, everybody has their own dictionary.

And much help to guys like Quadra for providing their resources. Actually, I will click most links. A lot can be determined how a person thinks by what they read and/or profess to base their sources.

I guess it comes from having to cite the literature in virtually everything I do.

P.S., Forgot Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scf6d...eature=related

and Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCvLTlQWT6A&NR=1

Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuhHIqJyjY0&NR=1

Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf9jv...eature=related

Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IzxF...eature=related

Part 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IzxF...eature=related

Part 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM8K1yexO6s&feature=fvw

Part 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGH-1...eature=related

Part 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQwhb...eature=related

Excuse the fact that some of these may be duplicated somewhat. It has been awhile since I reviewed them last. In any event, I would consider them well worth watching. And perhaps doing so, there just maybe enough for some to appreciate what some have done and not a nefarious as some portray.
post #49 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Doesn't he deserve some kind of award, too? I mean, he is kinda indirectly responsible for Apple's recent success, too.

By the way, how did those "Laptop Hunter" ads go for ya, Microsoft? All they did was tell everyone what they already knew: Macs are cooler and more expensive than cheap crap.

That has got to be the stupidest campaign ever, even stupider than the shoe store one with Seinfeld.

Of course I am a pc and 7 was my idea is pretty inane too. The whole idea of just copying your competitors award winning slogan is pretty stupid...but wait...copying?ms? never.

check out steve's commencement speech too.
post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

I doubt it. Quadra, like myself appreciates backing up our statements. Unfortunately, it isn't reciprocated enough.

I learn a lot from digging deeper, particularly reading news sites. Sound bites are just too small to base your future on. And as we have seen, everybody has their own dictionary.

And much help to guys like Quadra for providing their resources. Actually, I will click most links. A lot can be determined how a person thinks by what they read and/or profess to base their sources.

I guess it comes from having to cite the literature in virtually everything I do.

P.S., Forgot Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scf6d...eature=related

and Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCvLTlQWT6A&NR=1

nice links, and thank you.
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

It's probably because he had no choice in the beginning.

It was a new market for Apple, it was a risk for AT&T.

It could have flopped.

The carriers are in competition with each other, they don't like someone who is working both camps.

Now the iPhone is very popular, AT&T is overloaded, they can't expect Apple to remain solely on their network.

The iPhone has outgrown one carrier, it's time for it to be universal.

Apple could only get this way through strength, to be able to make deals across the board.

Trip, I have to do some digging on this but back after 1st gen iPhone was announced it was brought to light that Apple had in fact offered it to Verizon first. The primary speculation centered around a combination of hubris on both parts - Apple insisting on ownership of the hardware, OS and software (let Verizon be the "carrier" and provide visual voicemail), and Verizon considering a product not yet in production, a vague mock-up with a set of features, and an Apple hubris that ran exactly counter to their business model (lock-down phone OS features, pick-and-choose a limited set of hardware platforms, and limit data usage on their network). They were the number one carrier - they had no reason to risk anything on a newcomer to the game - especially one with a checkered past and no effective experience in the mobile market - and no interest in low-cost commodity phones.

You are looking at this entirely too US-centric. Apple is cutting broad deals with multiple carriers around the globe. The rest of the globe is largely on GSM technology - only Verizon and Sprint are using the aging and minority CDMA technology. If Apple can get Asia in general to buy into the iPhone they will market to a majority of the globe - dwarfing the US market and making Verizon problematic.

On the other hand, if there is a way that Apple can use the latest universal chipsets to its advantage (lower power consumption than past chipsets - competitive or better than current GSM-only chipsets price points), AND get an agreement with Verizon on the table, then I could see them re-addressing their offer to Verizon.

The other question that remains is one that is largely evolutionary: will the iPhone technology set overtake RIM and/or Nokia/Symbian in smartphones, or will it simply establish a strong percentage and force up-and-comers like Palm and Android to fight a three-front battle to establish marketshare, with Microsoft trying to claw up their backsides to re-establish its own marketshare? How many "predators" can any given ecosystem support without wiping out the system through imbalances or "over-predation"?
post #52 of 68
My main hope is that Apple doesn't wipe out Microsoft as much as Microsoft did Apple, because I happen to like Windows (which is pretty much suicide on the AppleInsider forums, I know).
post #53 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieFromTex View Post

My main hope is that Apple doesn't wipe out Microsoft as much as Microsoft did Apple, because I happen to like Windows (which is pretty much suicide on the AppleInsider forums, I know).

1) Apple nearly wiped themselves out as proven by Apple’s resurgence from their $5B market cap in the last 90s.

2) Unless Apple changes their business model to allow the licensing of Mac OS X on other vendor’s PCs then MS has no threat of losing their windows dominance to Apple. Even if Apple was the largest PC retailer in the world with a 25% market share, which HP currently has, that would still only be 25% of the OS marketshare leaving near 75% for Windows.

3) You shouldn’t be lambasted for liking Windows. It’s the hyperbolic, generalizations that are rightly pilloried. The same goes for the other end of the spectrum, too.
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post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

3) You shouldnt lambasted for liking Windows. Its the hyperbolic, generalizations that are rightly pilloried. The same goes for the other end of the spectrum, too.

While most people do not have the bias that is as the generalization that I spoke of, there is a certain "mob" quality to the Internet, causing people to be hyperbolic in persecution of ideas that differ from the status quo in their section. In an ideal world in which people spoke how they truly felt instead of what they thought as accepted there wouldn't be this kind of thought, but unfortunately, it happens all too often.
post #55 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieFromTex View Post

While most people do not have the bias that is as the generalization that I spoke of, there is a certain "mob" quality to the Internet, causing people to be hyperbolic in persecution of ideas that differ from the status quo in their section. In an ideal world in which people spoke how they truly felt instead of what they thought as accepted there wouldn't be this kind of thought, but unfortunately, it happens all too often.

I know what you are talking about but overall I’d say this site is pretty balanced and objective by many of the longtime members. So far you’ve stated nothing in anger, exaggerated nor made claims of facts that you’ve failed to back up that would incite rationale readers to attack you.

People tend to hate on the Zune but I think it’s best PMP HW, UI and ecosystem outside of the iPod/iTunes. I don’t recall anyone agreeing with me on that but I also don’t recall being attacked for it either. So post away, opinions and all

I prefer Mac OS X over Windows any day but Windows has its place and can’t be displaced by Mac OS X with current business models. If anything is going to take a chunk of Windows’ market share I think it will be Chrome OS, though I don’t see it affecting their profits since Chrome OS will simply be filling up the profitless bottom tier and moving into new OS territory with internet-capable TVs and cable boxes, etc. We’ll know in a year or so if Chrome OS has a chance.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Not sure about that. Will signal that is has become a 'value' stock, with diminished growth opportunities.

It will signal nothing of the kind. What will signal diminished growth opportunities is diminished growth.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #57 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

It's not my mental block, but conventional wisdom says that the market likes to see more "affordable" stock and that there's a sweet spot for the equity in question.

This is neither wise, nor conventional.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

All very well-deserved accolades for Mr. Jobs. Love or hate Apple, love or hate Jobs, the results speak for themselves.

Steve is thevman.just want tinknow where all the bad news is. Stories like this are normallybafter some leak of terrible news. Like when there are reports if new holiday stuff followed the next day by an apple statement saying thus is it (sure sure they don't read rumor sites),,in factv there was a huge artickle not to long ago how apple saves millions by using rumors and proven when schiller shows up right after new holiday rumors LOL.

Be safe all.

Wife and really praying for a new job for me. (So i can get the mac pro LOL), but seriosly, somewhat ill and can't lose my insurance. So appreciate any kind words, prayers, vibes sent this way. We are ai due for good fortune. It's been much to long. Appreciate it.
post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by axual View Post

It's amazing what you can do when you build a solid simple product line, with products that have great design and actually work, sell them at reasonable prices and provide good support.

ATT ... can you hear me now? Nope. Still don't have 3G.

everything but the reasonable prices part.
post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If anything is going to take a chunk of Windows market share I think it will be Chrome OS, though I dont see it affecting their profits since Chrome OS will simply be filling up the profitless bottom tier and moving into new OS territory with internet-capable TVs and cable boxes, etc. Well know in a year or so if Chrome OS has a chance.

I'll believe it when I see it.
And more than a year. Chrome OS isn't slated to be on machines until about this time next year.
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/.../developer-faq
Quote:
Google Chrome OS is not a conventional operating system that you can download or buy on a disc and install. As a consumer, the way you will get Google Chrome OS is by buying a netbook that has Google Chrome OS installed by the OEM. Google Chrome OS is being developed to run on new machines that are specially optimized for increased security and performance. We are working with manufacturers to develop reference hardware for Google Chrome OS. These netbooks will be available in the fourth quarter of 2010.

Emphasis mine.

Oh and congrats to Steve Jobs who's done a masterful job at heading Apple since his 1997 return.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. - a bumper sticker

Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

It will signal nothing of the kind. What will signal diminished growth opportunities is diminished growth.

There you go again, making sweeping, unequivocal assertions.

I would recommend your looking at (a very considerable) financial economics literature on dividends. On average, dividend paying firms tend to have fewer growth opportunities, lower P/E ratios, and lower M/B ratios than non-dividend payers.

It is not an accident that 'value' portfolios tend to be heavily populated by dividend-paying companies, but 'growth' portfolios non-dividend paying.

If the argument is for Apple returning money to shareholders -- which would be a fine goal -- there are better ways to do it. Share repurchase, or a special (large) one-time dividend. Initiation of 'regular' dividends is normally viewed as an irriversible commitment by markets.

Oh, you can look up any basic finance textbook for these insights.
post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The metrics are built into the typeface itself be it OpenType or Postscript, neither of which Apple had anything do do with in terms of creating a cross platform standard. If you create a Postscript file from either Windows or Mac using Quark or inDesign the output will be identical with respect to the type rendering.

Apple had nothing to do with the creation of OpenType? Really? Are you sure?
post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

There you go again, making sweeping, unequivocal assertions.

I would recommend your looking at (a very considerable) financial economics literature on dividends. On average, dividend paying firms tend to have fewer growth opportunities, lower P/E ratios, and lower M/B ratios than non-dividend payers.

It is not an accident that 'value' portfolios tend to be heavily populated by dividend-paying companies, but 'growth' portfolios non-dividend paying.

If the argument is for Apple returning money to shareholders -- which would be a fine goal -- there are better ways to do it. Share repurchase, or a special (large) one-time dividend. Initiation of 'regular' dividends is normally viewed as an irriversible commitment by markets.

Oh, you can look up any basic finance textbook for these insights.

If I'm making "sweeping, unequivocal assertions" it is only in response to your "sweeping, unequivocal assertions" -- as in the ones you just made above.

There is no rule, and I can certainly object to you having invented one. There is no "normal view" of dividends, they don't "signal" anything, except a desire by the board to return excess capital to the stockholders. Apple is sitting on an absolutely immense amount of excess capital. Returning some small part of that excess to stockholders does not in any way, shape, or form imply anything about their growth potential going forward. In fact the excess capital, and the continuous accumulation of more capital (about a $1b a month, at the present rate) is a result of growth. Apple becomes a "value" company when their growth rate declines, not at some arbitrary point defined by a dividend.

This point has been made by many in finance. You could look it up.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

I'll believe it when I see it.
And more than a year. Chrome OS isn't slated to be on machines until about this time next year.
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/.../developer-faq

Emphasis mine.

Oh and congrats to Steve Jobs who's done a masterful job at heading Apple since his 1997 return.

Which is why I clearly stated well know in a year if Chrome OS has a chance. That is Q4-2010. The signs will be apparent in one year if Chrome OS has a chance of taking any of Windows marketshare.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Perfect video of Steve. Clearly shows what kind of a man he is.

I don't know whether you mean that in a positive way or a derogatory way, but I think that Steve was absolutely correct in that video. His description of embedding culture and new ideas into products is definitely one of the major differences between Apple and Microsoft. He may have stated it in a somewhat pretentious way, but he was right back then and that is still pretty much correct today.

However, even if Jobs was totally wrong when he made that statement, judging from his appearance, that was many years ago and I think that it's unfair to criticize someone forever for statements made when they were young, regardless of their executive position at the time.
post #66 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

A rising credit bubble lifts all ships, including Apple's.


Many don't know that, Bush as the outgoing president was smeared by a vengeful Dem Congress not only for political gain, but because Bush took the two GSE's out of their "socialist experiment" and fired both CEO's for bringing both companies to ruin.


Being the root of the sub-prime mess?, no that goes back to Clinton and his revisions to the Community Reinvestment Act forcing banks into giving risky loans under the threat of redlining. The first mortgage backed security was created later that year by Bear Sterns as a way for banks to dump the toxic loans.

Then in 2005 the Dem Congress got Freddie and Fannie into the sub-prime act right during the height of the bubble...

So basically it was government sponsored corruption of capitalism that was the cause of the problem. The Dems brought the government into the sub-prime mortgage game like bringing a drunk whale (rich person) to a casino. Now we will all pay, with sub-standard socialized health care tax during a severe recession. Wonderful!

Dems are by nature anti-capitalists and certainly anti-business. They are the ones who ripped off the sub-prime poor with loans they couldn't afford, and like blaming Bush, they blame the banks for laws and regulations they created in the first place. They blame everyone but themselves for their failure to understand how things work.

You see, I lived through two real estate bubbles, they normally are a game of speculation for those who can afford to take the risk. It's not for the sub-prime and middle class.



Apple is really desperate, this is why it's doing what it's doing. Good thing it's successful or it would be another Palm.

Apple needs to cement a market, preferably a infrastructure really bad, that's why it's in the portable music and phone business.

The computer market it has failed in, due to circumstances and earlier mistakes. 10% market share is a failure, 90% or more is successful.

you are so full of talking points, I have to put my waders on to get thru this...

you really need to stop listening to Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh.... let me guess you have the Palin "book"....

nice newsletter list you spouted, you can wipe your fecal-covered mouth now...
post #67 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetoric.assassin View Post

you are so full of talking points, I have to put my waders on to get thru this...

you really need to stop listening to Beck, Hannity and Limbaugh.... let me guess you have the Palin "book"....

nice newsletter list you spouted, you can wipe your fecal-covered mouth now...

Nope. No talking points here.



There's a political forum here in AI for these types of conversations, BTW.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #68 of 68
Ballmer's presentation style and enthusiasm got him an "honorable mention".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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