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Apple releases fix for iMac graphics flickering issue - Page 2

post #41 of 65
12/22/09 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thanx_al View Post

I would much rather "put up" with Apple fixing these things than go back to the host of PC makers that don't honor their own warranties well within the warranty period. Ask anyone who has had a problem with an HP, esp. if they bought it at a Best Buy. That'll make you gouge your eyes out. Or anyone who has bought a Dell recently.

Problem also exists with Electronic companies in general as well. IE. Pioneer not honoring their warranties on defective Kuro displays...
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post #42 of 65
12/22/09 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

ATI is punishing Apple for not choosing AMD (parent company of ATI) x86 processors for their Mac's.

Although I hear some other devices Apple uses AMD chips..






Also let this be a warning!

Never, never, buy a first generation Apple product unless your two steps away from a Apple Store, got cart blanche and a lot of time and money to spare. Certainly buy Apple Care, because after the first year, they drop you good.

Apple likes to innovate and unfortunately doesn't test any of it's products before release, rather relying upon the "surprise" and hype factor and cleaning up the mistakes later on if not at all.

Also the second and third generation has a more mature product offering, better processor, features, etc.


And yes I'm still on Leopard, because we called it Leoptard for the first 8 months out of the gate.

The Snow Leopard "guest deletion" problem is proof it's better to wait for things to get a bit solid before committing.




I've done enough beta testing for Apple over the years, my heart just isn't into it anymore, it's not making me money, so why bother?

Yes it is usually best to wait. Apple most definitely does test their products though. Unfortunately a limited sampling cannot over all the potential problems that may occur during mass production. On the other hand, I'd rather buy a first gen product from Apple than from HP (as an example) because I know they will suport it if something goes wrong. HP on the other hand will continue to knowingly put defective motherboards in laptops and not extend the warranties of all laptops affected by this practice.
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post #43 of 65
12/22/09 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky View Post

Just in case AngusYoung reads this , let me simplify it for him. There will never be the final, latest and greatest version of anything because new products are always being developed. If you try to wait for it, you will never have anything.

Yes, thank you

And I forgot to ask solipsism, does this mean that although perhaps a later version has some flaws that it still is not an improvement on the original?
The part of my argument I left out was that very rarely is a product update a total disaster to be avoided at all costs. Sometimes there are glitches, but overall it is far more likely that an update to an existing line is better than the preceding version.
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post #44 of 65
12/22/09 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Yes it is usually best to wait. Apple most definitely does test their products though. Unfortunately a limited sampling cannot over all the potential problems that may occur during mass production. On the other hand, I'd rather buy a first gen product from Apple than from HP (as an example) because I know they will suport it if something goes wrong. HP on the other hand will continue to knowingly put defective motherboards in laptops and not extend the warranties of all laptops affected by this practice.

Good point, Dell either. My wife had a 600M that needed over the course of its two (three maybe?) year warranty four motherboards. The DC charging board was soldered to the motherboard, and it came loose every so often and wouldn't charge. Dell never came up with a fix, they just sent a guy out to replace the motherboard.
Until the warranty was over, that is. Knowingly defective (or design flaw, whatever) they probably could have saved a bundle by offering us a newer version, or a refund. Hell, if they did that my wife would probably still insist on a Dell computer.

Edit: price incorrect so removed....I was thinking of our 8200 tower... :/
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post #45 of 65
12/22/09 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Apple's quality control has been abysmal the past few years - about the same time they started sourcing products from China.

I'll stick with my non-glare iMac that I've had zero issues with thank you very much.

No, it hasn’t, and you “non-glare iMac” is made in China and other asian countries. Crack it open and look at the stickers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

And I forgot to ask solipsism, does this mean that although perhaps a later version has some flaws that it still is not an improvement on the original?

You misunderstood my previous post. It wasn’t about potentially having flaws and waiting for the revision to have them ironed out, it was about potentially having changes that may make me hold onto my current Mac for an extra revision. For example, I know both the latest MBP without realizing that Apple removed the EC/34 on all but the 17” model. The system has the same name and the unibody is essentially the same but there are differences that may make the purchase less than ideal for a buyer. Same goes for the dropping of FW400 from all devices. If you really need FW then you’ll have to stick with what you have or go with a machine with FW800. If one isn’t going to research the products they are buying then i don’t want to hear them bitching about them.
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post #46 of 65
12/22/09 at 9:20am
To my displeasure, my i5 27" iMac has flickered a couple times this morning, since the firmware update. Not a lot and I did not see that dip to black and back that I used to occasionally get right after a flicker or two. So, maybe they're on the right track, anyway.

I put it to sleep and brought it back out and no flickers since, so far.

Seems to me that if it were a problem that could not be fixed by firmware, it would not respond so well to being put to sleep and immediately wakened. For example, if heat were causing a hardware problem, you would not think that a second or two of sleep would cool it off much.

Other than those rare flickers, this computer is fantastic.

I think the guy who suggests waiting to buy new Apple hardware -- or any new hardware -- until its been out a few months is absolutely right, though. But I seem to forget that when Apple comes out with something new and the lust in me begins to build. Maybe I can remember it when the tablet arrives next year? Probably not.
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post #47 of 65
12/22/09 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No, it hasnt, and you non-glare iMac is made in China and other asian countries. Crack it open and look at the stickers.



You misunderstood my previous post. It wasnt about potentially having flaws and waiting for the revision to have them ironed out, it was about potentially having changes that may make me hold onto my current Mac for an extra revision. For example, I know both the latest MBP without realizing that Apple removed the EC/34 on all but the 17 model. The system has the same name and the unibody is essentially the same but there are differences that may make the purchase less than ideal for a buyer. Same goes for the dropping of FW400 from all devices. If you really need FW then youll have to stick with what you have or go with a machine with FW800. If you arent going to research the products you buy then i dont want to hear you bitching about them.

Indeed.
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post #48 of 65
12/22/09 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

This is exactly the type of problems that people like to use when talking about "overpriced hardware" and it can be avoided!

The cheaper computers have far more problems than the Apple products we read everything about. It is insane some of the problems which I've seen HP and Dell hit the market with; sometimes critical hardware or DoA issues which do not lead to any sort of reaction from the company beyond 'return it to the store and get another one'. Even worse are some of the overheating problems which have come and gone from models. Those ruin computers in time ranges that easily fall outside warranty.

Nobody cares enough to start an HPInsider website, though, so there's no real publicity. Anything abnormal about Apple is widely publicized because it generates traffic. It is important to consider events like this from a realistic perspective.
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post #49 of 65
12/22/09 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Agreed. My i7 hasn't had a single glitch. A recall would have been more embarrassing which is no doubt why folks are screaming they should have done it. If the update fixes the problem, then the argument is irrelevant. A few hundred bad iMac's according to the complaint posts in the forums. Considering the thousands that have been purchased, I'm not overly concerned.

Encoding 500+ frames per second h.264 video in Handbrake for the iPhone

Priceless...


I call BS. Sorry. My i7 clean new system managed to encode a 26 min. MKV video file into the H.264 format in about 12 min., which is roughly 65 frames/second. The 500+ frame rate you mention is absurd. I can imagine a lossless uncompressed source video file encoding much faster, but not 10X faster than having to decode a compressed file and then encode it again.
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post #50 of 65
12/22/09 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So youre still holding that its a HW problem, not a driver problem and that every 27 iMac should be recalled despite the many that are working just fine. Great argument!

Time will show. In my 20-ish years of working in IT (and most of it I was actually working in service & support) I can't recall seeing flickering caused by software issue. I did, however, see number of faulty screens, graphics cards and, actually, a handful of compatibility issues.

What makes me wonder is, if it is caused by software - how come not all computers with same hardware and software exhibit same issues..? Having only part of total number with problems usually points to a bad batch of specific component.

So it remains to be seen:

1 - is fix really and completely fixing problems.

2 - what was the cause for the problem and how is software update fixing it - hopefully they are not pulling Dell here, "fixing" a problem by sacrificing performance (or something silly like that).
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post #51 of 65
12/22/09 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishSolidarity View Post

I call BS. Sorry. My i7 clean new system managed to encode a 26 min. MKV video file into the H.264 format in about 12 min., which is roughly 65 frames/second. The 500+ frame rate you mention is absurd. I can imagine a lossless uncompressed source video file encoding much faster, but not 10X faster than having to decode a compressed file and then encode it again.

He said for the iPhone, I've seen some pretty big numbers (300+ fps) on my i7 PC when encoding to a relatively low resolution. 500 might be high, but not out of the question. I haven't touched handbrake in a while, so I can't really determine how valid his claim is, but I wouldn't write it off as absurd.
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post #52 of 65
12/22/09 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

He said for the iPhone, I've seen some pretty big numbers (300+ fps) on my i7 PC when encoding to a relatively low resolution. 500 might be high, but not out of the question. I haven't touched handbrake in a while, so I can't really determine how valid his claim is, but I wouldn't write it off as absurd.

It was actually encoding using the stock iPhone profile (with two pass enabled and ABR). Resolution is 480 x 208.

Second pass reported all 4 CPU's pegged at 100% and 500+ FPS. I get 60-90 fps on stock DVD resolutions like 720x368 -> H.264 depending on any filtering.
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post #53 of 65
12/22/09 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

No, it hasn’t, and you “non-glare iMac” is made in China and other asian countries. Crack it open and look at the stickers.



You misunderstood my previous post. It wasn’t about potentially having flaws and waiting for the revision to have them ironed out, it was about potentially having changes that may make me hold onto my current Mac for an extra revision. For example, I know both the latest MBP without realizing that Apple removed the EC/34 on all but the 17” model. The system has the same name and the unibody is essentially the same but there are differences that may make the purchase less than ideal for a buyer. Same goes for the dropping of FW400 from all devices. If you really need FW then you’ll have to stick with what you have or go with a machine with FW800. If one isn’t going to research the products they are buying then i don’t want to hear them bitching about them.

It is wise to "look before you leap". To do otherwise would be foolish.
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post #54 of 65
12/22/09 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Time will show. In my 20-ish years of working in IT (and most of it I was actually working in service & support) I can't recall seeing flickering caused by software issue. I did, however, see number of faulty screens, graphics cards and, actually, a handful of compatibility issues.

What makes me wonder is, if it is caused by software - how come not all computers with same hardware and software exhibit same issues..? Having only part of total number with problems usually points to a bad batch of specific component.

So it remains to be seen:

1 - is fix really and completely fixing problems.

2 - what was the cause for the problem and how is software update fixing it - hopefully they are not pulling Dell here, "fixing" a problem by sacrificing performance (or something silly like that).

Somebody mentioned before that ATI/AMD may be surreptitiously punishing Apple for not using AMD cpu's in the new Mac lineup. I'm not so sure, but do you think that may be a possibility? That could explain the reason for a sofware update fixing the problem.
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post #55 of 65
12/22/09 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishSolidarity View Post

I call BS. Sorry. My i7 clean new system managed to encode a 26 min. MKV video file into the H.264 format in about 12 min., which is roughly 65 frames/second. The 500+ frame rate you mention is absurd. I can imagine a lossless uncompressed source video file encoding much faster, but not 10X faster than having to decode a compressed file and then encode it again.

Have you tried HandBrake v0.9.4 on Snow Leopard with an i7 iMac with varying frame sizes and codecs? I dont your claims but I also dont doubt DJRumpys either. Both statements seem very likely to me depending on the output settings.
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post #56 of 65
12/22/09 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cranky View Post

Somebody mentioned before that ATI/AMD may be surreptitiously punishing Apple for not using AMD cpu's in the new Mac lineup. I'm not so sure, but do you think that may be a possibility? That could explain the reason for a sofware update fixing the problem.

No, I don't think so. Using AMD graphics is still better than using AMD-nothing. It is not that Apple hasn't got other options - nVidia has more than capable hardware in the range of 4670 and 4850. If AMD did use such tactics, they would more likely loose Apple for good than force Apple to do everything-AMD... and AMD is not in position to loose strong customers \

For AMD, that would pretty much be digging their own grave.

Also, same question apply - if software was the cause, why did it not exhibit on every iMac from specific line? Identical computers with identical software bug should have identical issues...
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post #57 of 65
12/23/09 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coords View Post

My new 27" iMac has two problems... The video problem om my iMac is a little different that what I have seen here. It flickers, but also has an issue where the video has split, and ± ¼ of the bottom of the screen moved to the top of the screen. A restart of the system fixes the issue. My second problem is that of an electrostatic charge running through the aluminum of the system. Apple support was very good with this, and are sending me a new system. Hopefully the new one will be OK this time...

Besides those issues, I am very happy with my machine. Production errors occur on new lines of products, these things happen. At least Apple was very helpful in trying to resolve them as soon as possible.

I applied the fix and sadly it didn't help. My new 27" iMac is fortuantly on it's way. I just hope that it won't have the same problems!
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post #58 of 65
12/23/09 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

No, I don't think so. Using AMD graphics is still better than using AMD-nothing. It is not that Apple hasn't got other options - nVidia has more than capable hardware in the range of 4670 and 4850. If AMD did use such tactics, they would more likely loose Apple for good than force Apple to do everything-AMD... and AMD is not in position to loose strong customers \

For AMD, that would pretty much be digging their own grave.

Also, same question apply - if software was the cause, why did it not exhibit on every iMac from specific line? Identical computers with identical software bug should have identical issues...

Point made and received - thanks.
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post #59 of 65
12/23/09 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

No, I don't think so. Using AMD graphics is still better than using AMD-nothing. It is not that Apple hasn't got other options - nVidia has more than capable hardware in the range of 4670 and 4850. If AMD did use such tactics, they would more likely loose Apple for good than force Apple to do everything-AMD... and AMD is not in position to loose strong customers \

For AMD, that would pretty much be digging their own grave.

Also, same question apply - if software was the cause, why did it not exhibit on every iMac from specific line? Identical computers with identical software bug should have identical issues...

I think someone posted that Apple indicated if the update doesn't resolve the problem, then a hardware warranty replacement would be necessary. However, I wonder if some of these issues could be due to some of the ATI chips coming to apple with an old/wrong firmware revision and this would explain a firmware update resolving the issue.

I helped my brother-in-law buy his first Mac, and it was a dual core 27" iMac. He does have one major complaint, and that is simply that AutoCad is not yet available for Mac OS. Unfortunately, this means that he is having to run in Windows most of the time since he is a draftsman. Personally, I'm surprised that his new iMac survived my drooling all over it.
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post #60 of 65
12/23/09 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post

Interesting that there hasn't been one comment in bthis thread so dar from an affected user.


So? Perhaps a lot of people decided not to be smug having a whopping 27" computer sitting on their desk in these rough times.

I went as for far as covering my Apple logo on my MacBook Pro with a Ubuntu one.
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post #61 of 65
12/23/09 at 10:48am
Sad to report that the firmware did NOT take care of the problem on my display. It was clean for a while, but now the flickering is even WORSE than before.

Dang.
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post #62 of 65
12/23/09 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

I think someone posted that Apple indicated if the update doesn't resolve the problem, then a hardware warranty replacement would be necessary. However, I wonder if some of these issues could be due to some of the ATI chips coming to apple with an old/wrong firmware revision and this would explain a firmware update resolving the issue.
.

True, they might have more than one issue there... though last time I had to update graphics firmware was in the time of GF2 cards - my GF2 MX worked fine with Win 98 but was black-screening on early XP.

It is not common, but it is possible.
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post #63 of 65
12/23/09 at 2:35pm
My new I mac i7 is fine, and I haven't got any flash or screen issue.
That's say, I know too many people having problems. It's not marginal.
I wonder if we could make a poll to see the percentage of defective 27 inch I mac.
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post #64 of 65
12/27/09 at 3:06pm
Received my 27",Quad Core i7, iMac a couple of weeks ago and the CPU fan was spinning out of control at max (sounded like a jet engine). The screen was also yellow across the bottom half and the thing wouldn't stay awake after being woken up.

I took it to the Apple Store and they were going to replace the power supply, logic board, CPU fan and several cables. I opted to have it replaced (middle of January).

Odd thing too, right now I'm running OS 10.4.11 on an 800MHz G4 and Adobe Illustrator CS1 was running faster than when I installed CS4-Illustrator and ran it on the brand new i7 iMac. I opened several large files on the i7-iMac that I was having troubles on my 800MHz-G4 and I had the same problems (rendering large 3D objects that I had created in Illustrator). I opened up Activity Monitor to what was going on and there was only 300MB of RAM being alloted to CS4-Illustrator (out of 8GB of RAM). Don't understand what was going on (and I'm not very techy). Will have to do further test when I get the replacement.
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post #65 of 65
12/29/09 at 6:33am
Got contacted from my Apple dealer today (as I didn't order the new 27" i7 through the Apple Store) and he confirmed me that the iMac (ordered on this past black friday) won't arrive until late January, because of hardware problems, that Apple is trying to fix. Anyway I see that they are shipping them with small delays on the online store, even though they are acknowledging the problems to users experiencing flickers (I see that many users got up to 2 replacement, and after the second replacement they got a full refund). I really hope they manage to fix this problem because otherwise those iMacs are the best Apple ever did and they could help Apple market share a lot!
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