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Judge dismisses suit against Apple over iMac G5 display issues

post #1 of 47
Thread Starter 
As Apple released a firmware update to fix graphical glitches on its new 27-inch iMac, a federal judge dismissed a class action lawsuit over display issues on 2006 hardware.

Plaintiff Aram Hovsepian filed the class-action suit demanding $5 million for himself and others similarly situated. The original complaint was issued on Dec. 31, 2008. Hovsepian attempted to include all people who purchased an iMac computer in the U.S.

Last week, Judge Jeremy Fogel of a federal court in San Jose, Calif., dismissed the complaint. He said the "class" cited by Hovsepian cannot be determined because it includes users who have not experienced any problems with their iMac, and have no right to sue.

"These type of class actions are not suitable for actions where recovery of money damages is the primary relief sought by the plaintiff," Fogel wrote. "The purpose of this lawsuit is money damages. These pleading deficiencies are present despite the fact that Hovsepian has been given two opportunities to amend his complaint. Accordingly, the class actions will be struck without prejudice."

The suit states that Hovsepian, a Florida resident, purchased his iMac G5 from Apple in October 2006. The plaintiff alleged that vertical lines began to appear on his display screen in March 2008, which eventually progressed to the point that the screen was unusable.

"He claims Apple knew of or recklessly ignored the existence of the defect that caused premature failure of the display screens, and that Apple failed to take remedial action or remove the defective computers from the marketplace," court documents state.

The decision comes as Apple has had screen flickering and distortion issues with its new, big-screen 27-inch iMac. On Monday, Apple issued a firmware update to address the issue. Some reports this week incorrectly suggested Hovsepian's lawsuit was related to the recent iMac display issues.

Weeks ago, many orders for the new iMac were delayed past Christmas. Apple acknowledged the delays, citing great demand for the new hardware, but did not comment on the reported display issues.
post #2 of 47
Common sense ... yeah! If only this judge would relocate to West Texas ... but then he is smart so I guess he wouldn't want to!
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Long on AAPL so biased
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post #3 of 47
The complainant didn't bother responding to two court requests to amend his complaint. Dumb. On the other side, I can't figure out how one is unable to determine how many iMac G5 users were affected by this; certainly the complainant could request Apple repair records under discovery and also set up a website where affected users could register if they've had such a repair. It's relatively standard procedure; no new ground need be broken. It sounds like Hovsepian just bailed out.
post #4 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Common sense ... yeah! If only this judge would relocate to West Texas ... but then he is smart so I guess he wouldn't want to!

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post #5 of 47
Apple made an imac G5? Didn't know that.

Let me guess, one person had a problem and all of a sudden I want $5 million dollars. GFY.
post #6 of 47
This is a shame. I remember reading all the reports of problems people had and Apple ignoring it.
post #7 of 47
Can someone send this lawsuit guy a "dumbass" card in the mail? He should have bought AppleCare for his refurbed iMac G5 bought 10 months after the intel iMacs debuted.
post #8 of 47
My iMac G5 is just now beginning to experience these display issues. What recourse do I have? None, except fork out a ridiculous amount of money to fix it.

It's a shame, because without the display issues, it's still a perfectly usable computer.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #9 of 47




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Sorry, couldn't help myself.......
post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

My iMac G5 is just now beginning to experience these display issues. What recourse do I have? None, except fork out a ridiculous amount of money to fix it.

It's a shame, because without the display issues, it's still a perfectly usable computer.

people pay money to fix old computers? cheaper to buy a new one

4-5 years of use is normal. having electronics fail after several years of use is not out of the norm and grounds for a lawsuit. no manufacturing process is perfect and the best Apple can do is have standards for post-manufacturing testing and buy parts that meet their standards. there are monitor resellers that specify selling LCD's with dead pixels at a discount because there is a market for it and no one wants to throw them away
post #11 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

This is a shame. I remember reading all the reports of problems people had and Apple ignoring it.

It is interesting that Apple has not ignored the new iMac's problem and released a fix for it. Maybe they thought someone might sue them again.
post #12 of 47
post #13 of 47
Apple provides a 1 year warranty on their products with the option of a 3 year extended warranty. When things fail out of the prescribed warranty period, there are costs associated with the repair, simple as that.

Yes, in this case, it's an expensive repair for the end user. Such is life. It happens with ANY piece of electronics.
post #14 of 47
Gee, another immigrant who thinks he is going to get rich by filing a lawsuit. This our image in the world, and it is believed. This seems doubly true with lawsuits filed against Apple!

I know, I know ... Plenty of ridiculous suits by American born idiots, too.
post #15 of 47
Modern-day America. The age of lawsuits and judges who think they ARE the law. There is no law today...just politicians picking sides and the special interest groups who fund them. Male prohibita statues by the thousands and the lawyers, judges, district attorneys and the state are the ones who get the money from it all. May we slaves remain blind to the usurpers who crack the whip upon our backs. May we continue as happy little Americans. Was this country not born out of compliance and laziness? Apathy and unending entertainment? Was not our freedom gained by our unfaltering trust in those who governed us?

Nope.

CarolinaLiberty.com
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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post #16 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

My iMac G5 is just now beginning to experience these display issues. What recourse do I have? None, except fork out a ridiculous amount of money to fix it.

It's a shame, because without the display issues, it's still a perfectly usable computer.

Take it to the Apple Store. The display on my mother's iMac G5 started showing vertical lines a few months ago. It was 3.5 years old, and we never got AppleCare for it, but Apple repaired it for free.
post #17 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Let me guess, one person had a problem and all of a sudden I want $5 million dollars. GFY.

No, they wanted $5 million to split between everyone with teh problem, not one individual. That's how class action lawsuits work.
post #18 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Apple made an imac G5? Didn't know that.

Let me guess, one person had a problem and all of a sudden I want $5 million dollars. GFY.

You guess wrong; they were infamously problem-ridden. And if you didn't know Apple made an iMac G5, then why are you posting at all?
post #19 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by earache View Post

Take it to the Apple Store. The display on my mother's iMac G5 started showing vertical lines a few months ago. It was 3.5 years old, and we never got AppleCare for it, but Apple repaired it for free.

Not anymore. Apple did extend the iMac G5 warranties about a year, but are now no longer honoring them. We continue to have iMac G5 failures (bad capacitors, power supplies; the same things that caused our >50% failure rate under AppleCare) but Apple won't even talk to us about them now. Not that I'm complaining; the units are indeed old. But don't tell people they can still get them serviced for free, 'cos they can't.
post #20 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

Apple provides a 1 year warranty on their products with the option of a 3 year extended warranty. When things fail out of the prescribed warranty period, there are costs associated with the repair, simple as that.

Except that it's not. The world is nowhere near as black and white as you want to believe it is.

Consider the case of the bad capacitors that Apple (and Dell and IBM) bought from Korea in 2004. Those capacitors have caused nearly 50% of iMac G5's to fail. Apple reached a settlement with the maker of those capacitors. Why should owners of G5's whose capacitors fail out of warranty not be compensated with a repaired G5 given that Apple did receive settlement from the company responsible for that G5 failing?!?

See? No black & white. Stop trying to see the world that way.
post #21 of 47
Hey, to all those reporting 801's satirical post as "spam", take a little closer look at the name of the guy who runs the exercise studio.
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post #22 of 47
It's 3 years after the purchase for any iMac G5, so a 2006 iMac purchased 12/31/06 having issues due to bad capacitors would still be covered until the end of this year. I've seen REP being done beyond the 3 years allowed if it's only a matter of days or weeks and youre not cursing at them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Not anymore. Apple did extend the iMac G5 warranties about a year, but are now no longer honoring them. We continue to have iMac G5 failures (bad capacitors, power supplies; the same things that caused our >50% failure rate under AppleCare) but Apple won't even talk to us about them now. Not that I'm complaining; the units are indeed old. But don't tell people they can still get them serviced for free, 'cos they can't.

[edit] Some correction to my post above, I did some research and it looks like the repair extension program ended Dec 15 2008. The last version of the iMac with a G5 chip was discontinued March 2006 though I suppose some purchased a refurb from apple store after that date and can try to have it repaired.

Here's an example, way beyond the 3 years allowed, posted at macosxhints:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbenezra posted Tue, Mar 17 2009 at 7:30AM PDT

Not so much a hint, but a suggestion which hopefully will help someone else. My iMac G5 (1.8 GHz, 2005 model) started having frequent kernel panics which I quickly realized was hardware related, as it persisted when booted from an external drive. When I opened the machine, I saw the dreaded bulging capacitors.

This was a known issue with a defect in the manufacturing of these capacitors, and Apple had a program to replace the motherboards when the capacitors failed. As I learned when I called the Apple rep, the program just ended in January and there was "nothing to be done." As I explained to the rep, I was being penalized for my machine lasting a bit longer than others, which made no sense. In fact, since there was no recall issued, I couldn't get my machine repaired before it failed, so Apple really had no choice in my opinion but to replace the defective motherboards. The rep agreed, and set up an appointment for my free replacement.

Hope this helps someone else who machine fails in the near future.
post #23 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Except that it's not. The world is nowhere near as black and white as you want to believe it is.

Consider the case of the bad capacitors that Apple (and Dell and IBM) bought from Korea in 2004. Those capacitors have caused nearly 50% of iMac G5's to fail. Apple reached a settlement with the maker of those capacitors. Why should owners of G5's whose capacitors fail out of warranty not be compensated with a repaired G5 given that Apple did receive settlement from the company responsible for that G5 failing?!?

See? No black & white. Stop trying to see the world that way.

As a general rule Bjojade is correct. The warranty is there specifically to give you a security on your purchase. What is going on with the bad capacitors, the previous laptop battery and other issues are a unique situation above and beyond the warranty.

I have to figure that Apple has weighed the cost of repairing these out of date machines compared with the potential cost from lawsuits and loss of future sales and mindshare before decided whether to repair out of data machine or not. I also assume that Apple is also holding the Korean company who supplied the capacitors at fault so most if not all of the repair costs are being billed to them
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post #24 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Common sense ... yeah! If only this judge would relocate to West Texas ... but then he is smart so I guess he wouldn't want to!

East Texas, you mean.
post #25 of 47
nice.

this is bottom line for me and Apple. I can not recommend in future to anyone else to buy Apple computers. (and I did convert at least 50 person to Mac side in last year or two)

but things that Apple do are *shameless* !

take a look at: http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/top...d_crash_freeze

Apple make product with design flaw and then it wont admit that they made mistake!
* This is outrages! *
iMac are pure crap; since 2005 all models have some issues with displays... (personally I 4 (four) iMac with defective display !!! )

So you can easily end up with useless computer after your guarantee period is expire!
post #26 of 47
Pity this guy didn't go about it correctly. He should've tried going for a free fix by apple rather than money. I can attest that this problem is a serious problem a particular batch of imacs both g5 and intel have had. I have 2 2ghz imacs in the same studio and one is completely unusable whilst the other has one or 2 lines for now.

I believe that apple had for a limited period of time allowed people to return defective imacs for repair even outside warranty. However this did't cover those for whom the same problem occurred later nor did I find anything for non usa residents. Our solution for the unusable imac was to get an ext monitor.

However, this problem is a well documented manufacturing or design defect and not something that falls under wear and tear. It is also one of the reasons i hate all in ones. I'll take pics of the screens tomorrow.
post #27 of 47
Kovacm -

Hey, then don't go recommending a Dell either. The Optiplex GX270's were victims of those bad capacitors too, and they had an extended service period for issues with that model, same as Apple. However, also same as Apple, now that the extended period is long over, they're free to decline to service the machines, also same as Apple. This is how things work. Just because your machine lasted longer on the bad caps than expected, don't expect to be taken care of. Everything has an anticipated life span, and once that's past, good luck to you.
post #28 of 47

The article is referring to an iMac G5, which was released in Oct 2005 (he purchased one in Oct 2006...which I am surprised he found one new, but I am guessing he bought it refurbished or used). This has nothing to do with the first generation Intel iMacs, released in 2006. I guess you aren't smart enough to know the difference. Second, Apple doesn't make the graphics cards in any of the Macs.

The judge proved the guy's case is full of shit because he couldn't even prove the problems were widespread. The iMac was two years old. He chose not to buy an extended warranty (if he bought it new). He has no right to sue a company when something goes wrong out of warranty. My family has three iMac G5's (ranging from the first gen iMac G5 to the last gen iMac G5) and none of them have any problems.
post #29 of 47
Well, that is the problem. The guy tried to certify the class to include all purchasers of iMacs. For a lawsuit to get certified as a class action, the class have to be similar enough to have suffered the same. However, probably only a very small amount of iMac users were effected. The guy can still sue Apple for actual damages, it just will not be for the big bucks which mostly goes to the attorneys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

The complainant didn't bother responding to two court requests to amend his complaint. Dumb. On the other side, I can't figure out how one is unable to determine how many iMac G5 users were affected by this; certainly the complainant could request Apple repair records under discovery and also set up a website where affected users could register if they've had such a repair. It's relatively standard procedure; no new ground need be broken. It sounds like Hovsepian just bailed out.
post #30 of 47
I work as an Apple tech. I have seen ONE G5/Core Duo iMac with this issue. ONE out of a ton of these things. That's it. I've seen far more dead logic boards (17" iSight iMac G5s had a tendency to blow the video card long before the screen), blown power supplies, failed hard drives, and failed optical drives than I have the screens. Should Apple have to cover all of those too? For how long?

This suit is pure crap, if only because failure rates on other components far exceed the failure rate of the LCD panels from every indicator that I've seen. Like I said above, I've seen more 17" iMac G5 (iSight) have video card failures than LCD panels. Apple should've put a REP on that long before the LCD panels. What about the Seagate 7.01 firmware drives in early Macbooks and Pros? Should've been a REP there.

And those saying that the 2006 iMacs are junk can go screw. I owned one and it was by far and wide the most solid computer I've had. I've seen far less of them than aluminum iMacs (2007 models have a surprising number of bad optical drive cables. I'm not kidding) or iMac G5s. No joke. Most of them have failed hard drives when they do come in, which, across all of Apple's lineup, is probably the most common failure. Moving parts and all.

Note that I'm not counting the non-iSight G5 iMacs. Apple had the REP out on those and the problems with bad capacitors and blown PSUs are well known.
post #31 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

You guess wrong; they were infamously problem-ridden. And if you didn't know Apple made an iMac G5, then why are you posting at all?

Knew of the G5 workstation, never an imac G5.
post #32 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovacm View Post

nice.

this is bottom line for me and Apple. I can not recommend in future to anyone else to buy Apple computers. (and I did convert at least 50 person to Mac side in last year or two)

but things that Apple do are *shameless* !

take a look at: http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/top...d_crash_freeze

Apple make product with design flaw and then it wont admit that they made mistake!
* This is outrages! *
iMac are pure crap; since 2005 all models have some issues with displays... (personally I 4 (four) iMac with defective display !!! )

So you can easily end up with useless computer after your guarantee period is expire!

That's why you don't buy all in one computers, PERIOD.

Of course, that's also why I hate laptops.

Hey, wonder if this was the solder bump issue, because desktop cards had the problem too.
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

That's why you don't buy all in one computers, PERIOD.

Of course, that's also why I hate laptops.

Hey, wonder if this was the solder bump issue, because desktop cards had the problem too.

If all-in-ones weren't appealing to a decent number of people, they wouldn't exist.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #34 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Common sense ... yeah! If only this judge would relocate to West Texas ... but then he is smart so I guess he wouldn't want to!

FYI - Just to let you know, Marshall is in East Texas. But I get, and agree with your sentiment.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey4147 View Post

Kovacm -

Hey, then don't go recommending a Dell either. The Optiplex GX270's were victims of those bad capacitors too, and they had an extended service period for issues with that model, same as Apple. However, also same as Apple, now that the extended period is long over, they're free to decline to service the machines, also same as Apple. This is how things work. Just because your machine lasted longer on the bad caps than expected, don't expect to be taken care of. Everything has an anticipated life span, and once that's past, good luck to you.

here is more: http://timecapsuledead.org/

about Dell: at least Dell is cheaper than Macs

it is really pity that company which earns BILLIONS $ won't afford to spend some money to fix THEIR mistake.

- instead, they decide to put all charges on *loyal* customers tap.

this is simple sad. Apple is so arrogant. Hope this will come back and hit them like a boomerang!

it is so sad that all other company fail to compete (inc. Commodore and Atari). Microsoft (Wintel) simple crush them all I still have Atari ST from 1986. and Amiga 500 from 1989. in full working condition (I also have Mac Classic from 1985 fully operational...)!

***
it's a sad day for all loyal Apple customers today.
***

@Thefinaleofseem "I've seen more 17" iMac G5 (iSight) have video card failures than LCD panels" like those: http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/top...d_crash_freeze ?

@sprockkets - you have point, but as jazzguru said: they are pretty "appealing"
Apple should, at least, invest more in "testing"; or invest more money in some kind of "repairing program" if they made bad computers...
post #36 of 47
[QUOTE=kovacm;1538292]nice.

this is bottom line for me and Apple. I can not recommend in future to anyone else to buy Apple computers. (and I did convert at least 50 person to Mac side in last year or two)

I don't believe you!
post #37 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovacm View Post

here is more: http://timecapsuledead.org/

about Dell: at least Dell is cheaper than Macs

it is really pity that company which earns BILLIONS $ won't afford to spend some money to fix THEIR mistake.

- instead, they decide to put all charges on *loyal* customers tap.

this is simple sad. Apple is so arrogant. Hope this will come back and hit them like a boomerang!

it is so sad that all other company fail to compete (inc. Commodore and Atari). Microsoft (Wintel) simple crush them all I still have Atari ST from 1986. and Amiga 500 from 1989. in full working condition (I also have Mac Classic from 1985 fully operational...)!

***
it's a sad day for all loyal Apple customers today.
***

@Thefinaleofseem "I've seen more 17" iMac G5 (iSight) have video card failures than LCD panels" like those: http://getsatisfaction.com/apple/top...d_crash_freeze ?

@sprockkets - you have point, but as jazzguru said: they are pretty "appealing"
Apple should, at least, invest more in "testing"; or invest more money in some kind of "repairing program" if they made bad computers...

Looks like you had some that lasted. How many more Ataris, Commodores, etc have died? A whole bunch.

The iMacs cited are a wide range covering G5s through Core 2 models. I'm talking about a specific issue to the late model iMac G5 line. I've seen failed video cards in Intels as well, but more intermittently and with a wider variety of symptoms. The iMac G5 had a specific video failure that resulted in artifact patterns across the screen. I saw that one a bunch.

And if you dig around with ANY computer company these days, then I think you'll find that they all have had hardware failures in the past. Apple's hardware failure rate is actually middle-of-the-road when measured against other manufacturers. Stop trying to hold them to this lofty standard of never breaking. It's a load of horsecrap. Macs can break down just like any other computer on the market. Deal with it.
post #38 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefinaleofseem View Post

Looks like you had some that lasted. How many more Ataris, Commodores, etc have died? A whole bunch.

The iMacs cited are a wide range covering G5s through Core 2 models. I'm talking about a specific issue to the late model iMac G5 line. I've seen failed video cards in Intels as well, but more intermittently and with a wider variety of symptoms. The iMac G5 had a specific video failure that resulted in artifact patterns across the screen. I saw that one a bunch.

And if you dig around with ANY computer company these days, then I think you'll find that they all have had hardware failures in the past. Apple's hardware failure rate is actually middle-of-the-road when measured against other manufacturers. Stop trying to hold them to this lofty standard of never breaking. It's a load of horsecrap. Macs can break down just like any other computer on the market. Deal with it.

I wish there was an applause icon. Well said!!!!!
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0SX View Post

the 2006 imacs are pure junk. apple should be ashamed.

????

I'm posting this on an early 2006 iMac Core Duo, one of the best purchases I've ever made.

Maybe I "got a good one", who knows. My only regret is for not buying two at the time.
post #40 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefinaleofseem View Post

Macs can break down just like any other computer on the market. Deal with it.

The big drawback with Apple hardware (besides maybe the MacPro) is when it does break you need a neurosurgeon to fix it.

As for the lawsuit, I'm glad it got tossed. When problems develop well off-warranty, why should anyone get a sweetheart settlement?
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