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Apple developers told to prepare 'full screen' apps for Jan. demo - Page 2

post #41 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post



Gee, really fragmented. There is no way I cold figure out the 3GS with v3.0 after using the original or 3G iPhone with v3.0.

ironically, you are showing no picture of the original iPhone, or the iPod Touch with no camera. Oh yes, you are also not showing the many iterations of the iPhone OS's with various differences in features. Oh yes, you are also not showing any of the many differences in hardware specifications between the different models.

Better luck next time, champ.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #42 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

iTablet won't be a phone.

It'll have Wifi but it won't be a phone. It may have VOIP but it won't be a phone.

would you say skype ??
2 camera;s front and back for video meetings ??

i think doctors lawyers and out in the field workers will take over this platform
full screen real time field datas or moving of data
in AN ease of use situation is golden
9 x 6 in screen would fit in lab coat pockets
9x6 is the perfect mobile gaming halo type machine also


go apple


yet bored housewives will rock with this tablet also

9
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post #43 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

ironically, you are showing no picture of the original iPhone, or the iPod Touch with no camera. Oh yes, you are also not showing the many iterations of the iPhone OS's with various differences in features. Oh yes, you are also not showing any of the many differences in hardware specifications between the different models.

Of course not, because Apple only sells two phones, the 3G and 3GS, yet each have v3.0 and had them on June 17, 2009, as well as the original iPhone. Youre arguing that Apple is somehow in error for giving rich updates to the original iPhone or even updating the HW and OS at all is absurd. These are yearly evolutionary updates following a very simple, linear update model.

On the flip side, how many current Android phones are there on the market right now? How many OS versions are being sold as the latest for each of these devices? How many very different HW models and completely different UI are there making cross-usage difficult for many? That is fragmentation, not a linear and coordinated upgrade cycle.
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post #44 of 102
That Apple intends to release what amounts to a Touch with a 7-inch screen, makes a ton of sense. That Apple was considering a 10-inch Touch, not so much.

I don't think current apps would look terrible running off a 7-inch device and it sounds like this new device will have the hardware able to handle full-resolution files.

This is exactly what I expected Apple to do, namely evolve the touch-screen form factor, allowing for a smooth transition from one generation to the next. The 7-inch Touch would be viable from the start since it could easily run existing software of which there is tons.

For those clamouring for a 10-inch Touch, all in good time. That time isn't now but such a device could make sense down the road after a library of apps taking advantage of the 7-inch form factor could play well enough on a 10-inch device. To jump straight to the 10-inch form factor simply does not make sense.

It's no small thing to leap up to 10 inches. I wouldn't be surprised if such a leap, instead of going with a 7-inch screen this time around, added as much as $200 to the new device's MSRP. That's a problem. A $500 Touch could challenge netbooks, depending on what one intends the device for. In comparison, a $700 Touch would be a much tougher sell.

Also, Apple set this up back when they released the most recent version of the Touch when the marketing put an emphasis on the Touch as a pocket computer. Now they can introduce said computer with a bigger screen, better suited to watching movies, browsing, playing games, i.e. all the stuff people are now doing on the Touch.
post #45 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

minor overlapping.[/INDENT]

major over lapping
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post #46 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Like getting websites to use internet standards when IE6 from 2001(?) is still the most dominate browser. Arent most devices on Android v1.6 still despite v2.0 having come out months ago?

Android will end up becoming just like Linux is on the desktop - Fragmented, inconsistent, and way too many variations of the same theme making it impossible to use for the masses. But of course, the Android-fanboys would rather live in denial since in their world, it's all about them. They know deep in the back of their minds that Android will not have the ability to truly get ahead as there are too many players involved. That's what is so nice about Apple. One phone, one software all designed to work specifically with each other. Nice and neat.
post #47 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple has sold three different phones, the original and 3G and 3GS, and each have different hardware specifications and OS versions depending on what the end-user has installed. Youre arguing that Apple is unable to make the original iPhone behave exactly as the new 3gs does, and you are 100% right about that. These are yearly evolutionary updates following a very simple, linear update model, but the hardware can not updated in the same manner, and hence this confirms the fragmentation you speak of and are 100% completely right about.

There, fixed that for you.

And I agree with the factually-corrected statements you made.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #48 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

There, fixed that for you.

And I agree with the factually-corrected statements you made.

Altering posts you disagree with to contort the readability of a thread is clearly a violation of this forum. You may want to cut that out. You dont have to agree with a poster but trying to alter the context of a thread when losing an arguing is trolling.
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post #49 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Altering posts you disagree with to contort the readability of a thread is clearly a violation of this forum. You may want to cut that out. You dont have to agree with a poster but trying to alter the context of a thread when losing an arguing is trolling.

You said that Apple has 2 phones: the 3g and 3gs... curious that you completely omitted the original iPhone in your listing. You're clearly and deliberately misconstruing the facts because you are losing an argument, and that is a clear violation of the forum rules.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #50 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

You said that Apple has 2 phones: the 3g and 3gs... curious that you completely omitted the original iPhone in your listing. You're clearly and deliberately misconstruing the facts because you are losing an argument, and that is a clear violation of the forum rules.

Sol was right on the mark. Read his post again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Of course not, because Apple only sells two phones, the 3G and 3GS, yet each have v3.0 and had them on June 17, 2009, as well as the original iPhone.
post #51 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Sol was right on the mark. Read his post again.

Yeah, you're right. Apple sold 0 (zero) iPhone originals. There are ZERO iPhone originals in existence. There are ZERO iPhone originals being used in the world. Those statistics on the original iPhone selling more than 0 (zero) units were completely false.

Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #52 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

You said that Apple has 2 phones: the 3g and 3gs... curious that you completely omitted the original iPhone in your listing. You're clearly and deliberately misconstruing the facts because you are losing an argument, and that is a clear violation of the forum rules.

SELLS present; SOLD past. Those images are from Apple present website. You cant buy the original iPhone from Apple or AT&T. You can only buy it from eBay, Craigs List and perhaps a few online dealers and pawn shops. It is not a current a model.

In my following paragraph I did not ask you about any past Android phones. I clearly queried, "On the flip side, how many current Android phones are there on the market right now?

The ONLY fragmentation is the Touch and iPhone split into two categories but it has been getting the EXACT CPU, RAM, GPU and other critical HW features of that years iPhone and the iPhone OS version when the Touch HW is updated. That pales in comparison what weve seen already with Android barely out of the gate.
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post #53 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Yeah, you're right. Apple sold 0 (zero) iPhone originals. There are ZERO iPhone originals in existence. There are ZERO iPhone originals being used in the world. Those statistics on the original iPhone selling more than 0 (zero) units were completely false.


I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep making crap up about what was said. This much going back to point out and explain the differences between past and present are ridiculous. So long...
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post #54 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

... but it won't be a phone.

how can you be so sure? What if there is a headset only version with a phone? It's not something I would be interested in, but I know at least two people that would move to something like that immediately.

I wouldn't count anything out.
post #55 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep making crap up about what was said. This much going back to point out and explain the differences between past and present are ridiculous. So long...

Your point is meaningless, since fragmentation is dependent on what phones are in existence, ie all phones that were sold, because all those phones need to be supported.

Do you honestly believe that the original iPhone does not exist simply because the 3g and 3gs were released?
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
Reply
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #56 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

SELLS present; SOLD past. Those images are from Apple present website. You cant buy the original iPhone from Apple or AT&T. You can only buy it from eBay, Craigs List and perhaps a few online dealers and pawn shops. It is not a current a model.

In my following paragraph I did not ask you about any past Android phones. I clearly queried, "On the flip side, how many current Android phones are there on the market right now?

The ONLY fragmentation is the Touch and iPhone split into two categories but it has been getting the EXACT CPU, RAM, GPU and other critical HW features of that years iPhone and the iPhone OS version when the Touch HW is updated. That pales in comparison what weve seen already with Android barely out of the gate.

See my post. Since the iPhone was sold in multiple iterations, it must be supported as multiple iterations.

You can't ignore the original iPhone's lack of certain features in this argument.


The Great iPhone/iPod Touch/iTablet Fragmentation continues . . . .
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

Ste...
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post #57 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Gee, really fragmented. There is no way I cold figure out the 3GS with v3.0 after using the original or 3G iPhone with v3.0.

Geez, can people NOT spot a troll in this forum? Using reason on a troll just encourages them.
post #58 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

You can't ignore the original iPhone's lack of certain features in this argument.

No but we can ignore you. Buh bye.
post #59 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The source said applications that can accommodate the larger screen size will run "just fine" on the new device.

IOW, Mr. Source, 100% of all compatible apps will run just fine?

Wow, what an insight.

</sarcasm>

Seriously, it's going to be interesting to see what porting apps will involve, what with everything so bar being designed around 320X480.

It'll also be interesting to see what Apple does in the UI department. A navigation bar and table view at, say, 768X1024 doesn't seem very Jobs-like.
post #60 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

You can't talk about something that doesn't actually exist.


Quote:
iPod touch users slow to upgrade mobile OS - study[CENTER]
[/CENTER]
While nearly 95 percent of iPhone users have upgraded to iPhone 3.0 or greater, only 55 percent of iPod touch users have done the same.

All Apple's fault because of some stupid "accounting rule" which sounds like bogus BS to me. I don't see MS having any trouble dishing out updates to first and second generation Zunes.

The update should be free and there wouldn't be this problem.
post #61 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

The droid screen is gorgeous, well for that 4 hours that you have enough power to run it =)

Actually a friend got one and loves it so much, she just can't figure out why her battery is dead by 5pm every day

Still, I'm pretty sure higher screen resolution doesn't mean a lot higher power draw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The 10.3" iTablet will be running the iPhone OS and be on the Verison network.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

iTablet won't be a phone.

It'll have Wifi but it won't be a phone. It may have VOIP but it won't be a phone.

Let's not jump to conclusions in this way. Being on a cellular network doesn't mean it will be a phone. Some computers are offered with cellular modems built-in, and they aren't phones. Still, there's nothing to say that it will be Verizon. If they do offer cellular data, I hope it's optional, some people can really use the data anywhere feature, others might be content with just WiFi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Sounds like a horrible idea. Tablet owners would have to put up with horribly upscaled, blurry looking apps for years to come.

I don't think so, unless the developer abandons an app, but if that app is no longer updated, then the app will probably be removed from the store. So existing users might be left out, but at least new buyers won't have to worry about buying apps that can only be used upscaled. When iPhone 3.0 came around, Apple required that all devs submit 3.0 compatible app updates or lose their place in the store.

I don't think it will necessarily mean that apps will be upscaled either. A lot of Apple-provided widgets automatically fill the space they're given, maybe you've seen it when you switch between portrait and landscape modes on some programs.
post #62 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

S... can anyone image having an iTablet? What benefit does it have over a Macbook?...

The benefit is that it syncs with your main computer and/or the cloud. A Macbook is only useful as a stand-alone computer.

This device could possibly use as a stand-alone computer, but (presumably) it's primary use is as a mobile extension of your main computer, or a mobile extension of, and means of accessing, your "cloud."
post #63 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

See my post. Since the iPhone was sold in multiple iterations, it must be supported as multiple iterations.

You can't ignore the original iPhone's lack of certain features in this argument.


The Great iPhone/iPod Touch/iTablet Fragmentation continues . . . .

I'm just wondering what exactly your point is here? Unless you can name a company that has come up with exactly one device with one never changing OS... then every company has to deal with this. So again, what's your point?

The differentiating factor between companies then becomes how you deal with it. I think most folks would argue that Apple has handled it quite well. That most apps work fine across all iPhone and iPod Touch iterations would seem to indicate that. Every other competitor has to deal with many, many more hardware variations than Apple, even with the addition of a tablet.

My reaction to the fragmentation debate is a yawn and a "Yeah, so?". Unless you are somehow advocating a company have one device and one OS... in which case, I say good luck ever being successful with this hypothetical company.
post #64 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

IOW, Mr. Source, 100% of all compatible apps will run just fine?

Wow, what an insight.

</sarcasm>

Seriously, it's going to be interesting to see what porting apps will involve, what with everything so bar being designed around 320X480....

The article was poorly worded, but what they mean is that all the apps that are properly coded in the store now are already resolution independent.

You are incorrect to assume that "... everything so (sic) bar (is) being designed around 320x480." In fact, hard coding to a specific screen size has been discouraged from the beginning and Apple specifically told developers they didn't want them to do that. That being said, a great deal of the games in the store apparently *are* hard-coded to the screen size, so those ones, will have to be "fixed."

At least I'm pretty sure that's what the article was trying to say.
post #65 of 102
If the iphone/ipod touch apps are being designed to run at larger resoulution then it bodes well for a larger gaming device (still smacks of 7"-10" ipod touch). this would be great for video as the ipod is just a fraction too small to appreciate movies (albeit my kids are find using a nano but they watch Ben 10 and Glee so there is no accounting for taste).

Now if you could wall mount the device and link it with other devices around your home then you can have a neat (and really expensive) comms system that runs tvs, music, does notes on the fridge, laundry list etc, even garage as oil wipes off pretty easy.

Dobby.
post #66 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

So we're all excited about this but can anyone image having an iTablet? What benefit does it have over a Macbook?

Form factor. A macbook is unwieldy if you are standing up roaming around. Laptops and "portable computers" are essentially portable from one seated position to another.

A tablet can be used on the go. That is the allure. True mobility. A different use case, and one could argue one with more practical applications and use cases then a traditional notebook/laptop.

Quote:
I'd rather have an iMac with a touch screen that can be removed from the base. The base would be used as a WiFi access point. This has been done before but it would be neat if Apple would do it.

It would cut off circulation to your legs from weight and screen would kill the battery. You'd get 20 minutes of use.

A tablet that docks to a base with a keyboard/mouse would makes far more sense then trying to force an iMac to be a lightweight semi-mobile computer.
post #67 of 102
I suspect it'll run iPhone OS 4 which will embody a few new UI paradigms to suit the larger screen - however I think all existing apps will run just fine. Some will look a little odd to be sure but savvy developers knew this day was coming and should have contingencies in place. Everybody will have a couple of months to catch the wave. I think something was lost in the translation of this 'rumour' and that 'fullscreen' actually means resolution independent.

Multi-tasking will be turned on I am sure since a larger battery will be possible and I can absolutely guarantee that there will be a headline feature that nobody here saw coming.
post #68 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

A $500 Touch could challenge netbooks, depending on what one intends the device for.

They'd have to add a lot more features to the Touch for that to be true. SD card slots, USB ports, expandable RAM, replaceable hard drive, front facing webcam, physical keyboard, video out, swappable battery, a user accessible file system, etc....

I love my iPod(s), and I make my living on my Macs, but my HP mini netbook is by far the most versatile computing device I've ever owned.
post #69 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

They'd have to add a lot more features to the Touch for that to be true. SD card slots, USB ports, expandable RAM, replaceable hard drive, front facing webcam, physical keyboard, video out, swappable battery, a user accessible file system, etc....

I love my iPod(s), and I make my living on my Macs, but my HP mini netbook is by far the most versatile computing device I've ever owned.

Yup. My wife absolutely LOVES her Acer Aspire One and it only cost me about $250 if I recall correctly. She does school lesson plans, report cards, Excel spreadsheets, Word documents, email, browsing, and her favorite -- looking at all of her friend's pictures on Facebook

I wish Apple had something in that price range (a small computer that can run a fully-fledged operating system) to appease her, but they don't.
post #70 of 102
The beginning of the tablet age.

No more notebooks by 2015. All tablet. You read it here first.
post #71 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by BleXXon View Post

They mean with bigger screen not the size of a tablet but television size, so that they can compete with consoles. Furthermore, they will provide a multitouch interface to interact with the new designed apple tv, including subscription plans,...

Quite frankly, THIS seems more likely than an Apple tablet. But I just assume everyone will ignore this post and go straight to the tablet fights.

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post #72 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Full screen means flexible based on the arbitrary window size, whether it be 640x480 to HD 1080p and beyond.

OS X application developers deal with this all the time as they don't know what the output resolution is going to be on the end user's device.

This is a nice bit of speculation, but if you've ever dipped your toes into iPhone/touch development, you will quickly realize what you are saying is absurd.

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post #73 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not to be pedantic, but my iPhone with a 3.5 320x480 display runs all apps full screen. Without quantifying it with a size, resolution or type (even saying using SVG) this article really is puzzling to me.

Images created for use on the iPhone are not even SVG... you cannot arbitrarily re-scale graphics created for Apps. They must be created for the scale they are meant to appear.

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post #74 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

iTablet won't be a phone.

It'll have Wifi but it won't be a phone. It may have VOIP but it won't be a phone.

I tend to agree. That is, unlike the original iPhone which required wireless connectivity to suffice, the onslaught of iPhone apps has lessened that need significantly.

I think it's primary purpose will be as a media player. Much like the iPhone, it will set a new paradigm in how we entertain ourselves and to a great extent how we conduct/support our businesses on the move. For many, we will still need a 'full' computer. For most, 'full' is overkill.

IMO, virtually every app currently available can for the most part be prepared to run "fullscreen" rather easily, as evidenced by Apple's request to some developers to demo in 4 weeks; and knowing Apple, to provide an updated SDK to ensure that tens of thousands of apps will be ready for a 'March' launch.

Obviously, a lot of apps will look absolutely astonishing if they are just updated to satisfy screen resolution. The GPS navigation apps definitely come to mind, a well as e'readers, web browsers, video games/players for example.

Others will appear downright ugly. But ducklings can be turned into swans with a little more insight, enhanced functionality and addressing some of their critiques' concerns.

More important, a whole new 'pricing' paradigm will evolve, particularly i.e., to now charge which before were free.

And, I do know many who have hungered for a broader canvas; and some I may add with confidence have already started.
post #75 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not to be pedantic, but my iPhone with a 3.5 320x480 display runs all apps full screen. Without quantifying it with a size, resolution or type (even saying using SVG) this article really is puzzling to me.

Yea I was sarcastic on the full screen stuff being clear, hence the quotes around it. but yea I have no idea what full screen is.
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post #76 of 102
Imagine if you can call someone from your tablet. Speakerphone functionality. Screen Sharing with other (Apple) Tablets. Conferencing. For some reason I see this making it into the enterprise.
post #77 of 102
What will be the aspect ratio?? 3:2 like the iPhone/touch, or 16:9 to tightly integrate the iTab with HDTV's, AppleTV, etc? everyone seems to be overlooking this.

of course with letter/pillar boxing you can always display one format within the other. but this choice by Apple will tell you what is the real strategic target for Apple now. either film/television in all its digital versions and monetization options, or just sucking everything into an iPhone format to maximize its installed base as the portable gold standard.
post #78 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Sounds like a horrible idea. Tablet owners would have to put up with horribly upscaled, blurry looking apps for years to come.

Really? You don't think some apps will be written to support two resolutions? Or that there won't be specific iPhone and ??????? (iTablet?) versions of some apps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

And Apple better add Flash support to the iPhone OS browser, or the tablet really will be (even more) pointless.

My one hope is that Apple doesn't add Flash support. Not until Adobe gets it to perform right on OSX and the iPhone OS. Better to get the studios to support a real standard for video which benefits everyone (or at least everyone who's not Adobe).

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post #79 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

What will be the aspect ratio?? 3:2 like the iPhone/touch, or 16:9 to tightly integrate the iTab with HDTV's, AppleTV, etc? everyone seems to be overlooking this.

I think the fold-out dual screen idea is quite nice as long as there is an invisible seam down the middle and in another thread someone posted a link to a video of an old Apple mockup of the Knowledge Navigator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGYFEI6uLy0

If they had dual 10" (8" x 6" screens = 4:3 aspect), they would fold out to a 3:2 14" screen at 1280 x 853, which can do 720p. Plus you get two screens for running apps side by side.

If they can't do the invisible seam idea, I'd expect a 16:9 or 16:10 12" slate. Hopefully they'll offer a way to protect the screen though.

I will be disappointed to see the iphone OS running on it because the apps available for it just aren't anywhere near the level of functionality of desktop apps. It may encourage developers to make iphone apps more fully fledged but I doubt it.

If it's extremely cheap, it won't matter so much what it runs as long as it covers the basics - word processing etc can be done online using services like Google Docs and maybe Apple will make some cloud apps.
post #80 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

3 years and 150,000 apps later, Apple has finally decided it's time to move on.
The iPod/iPhone platform is firmly entrenched.
One of the reasons apple waited this long is to avoid fragmentation.
Mission accomplished. Now it is time to extend the platform in new directons.

Does that mean that plenty of developers would get pissed now as they have to redo their application for the bigger screen ? Your point makes no sense. If they released info about new devices earlier (at least announced multiple screen sizes), developers would have more time to prepare.

The secretiveness of Apple shows as negative factor here. This is a royal treatment really : hint the developers by obscure "rumors" that they should prepare their apps for resolution independence by supporting very ambiguous "full-screen". One word : ridiculous.
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