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Apple developers told to prepare 'full screen' apps for Jan. demo - Page 3

post #81 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The benefit is that it syncs with your main computer and/or the cloud. A Macbook is only useful as a stand-alone computer.

This device could possibly use as a stand-alone computer, but (presumably) it's primary use is as a mobile extension of your main computer, or a mobile extension of, and means of accessing, your "cloud."

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobby View Post

...Now if you could wall mount the device and link it with other devices around your home then you can have a neat (and really expensive) comms system that runs tvs, music, does notes on the fridge, laundry list etc, even garage as oil wipes off pretty easy.

Dobby.

Absolutely agree here. You will want 2,3 or Steve's magic number, 5 of these devices. All synced from your main Mac, iTunes and/or MobilMe account. The reason for the big investment in Lala and in N.Carolina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

...A tablet can be used on the go. That is the allure. True mobility. A different use case, and one could argue one with more practical applications and use cases then a traditional notebook/laptop.

A tablet that docks to a base with a keyboard/mouse would makes far more sense then trying to force an iMac to be a lightweight semi-mobile computer.

Don't forget that Apple has a Patent on the idea of sliding a tablet-like device into a base station, or iMac-like dock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

They'd have to add a lot more features to the Touch for that to be true. SD card slots, USB ports, expandable RAM, replaceable hard drive, front facing webcam, physical keyboard, video out, swappable battery, a user accessible file system, etc....

I love my iPod(s), and I make my living on my Macs, but my HP mini netbook is by far the most versatile computing device I've ever owned.

I think Apple is pretty aware of this... and really doesn't want to compete at all in the netbook market. Versatility is not the key word in Apple's philosophy, ever. Tackling a core set of functions and uses, is: internet (web, mail, social), entertainment (music, video, & lately games), and personal creativity (iLife and possibly with this new device iWork). Core functions. Everything else they leave to the web and cloud-services, and/or developers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

...I think it's primary purpose will be as a media player. Much like the iPhone, it will set a new paradigm in how we entertain ourselves and to a great extent how we conduct/support our businesses on the move. For many, we will still need a 'full' computer. For most, 'full' is overkill.

IMO, virtually every app currently available can for the most part be prepared to run "fullscreen" rather easily, as evidenced by Apple's request to some developers to demo in 4 weeks; and knowing Apple, to provide an updated SDK to ensure that tens of thousands of apps will be ready for a 'March' launch.

...The GPS navigation apps definitely come to mind, a well as e'readers, web browsers, video games/players for example.

More important, a whole new 'pricing' paradigm will evolve, particularly i.e., to now charge which before were free. .

I'm also thinking, almost "free", as in subsidized... or around $500 without.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Imagine if you can call someone from your tablet. Speakerphone functionality. Screen Sharing with other (Apple) Tablets. Conferencing. For some reason I see this making it into the enterprise.

Absolutely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I think the fold-out dual screen idea is quite nice as long as there is an invisible seam down the middle and in another thread someone posted a link to a video of an old Apple mockup of the Knowledge Navigator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGYFEI6uLy0

If they had dual 10" (8" x 6" screens = 4:3 aspect), they would fold out to a 3:2 14" screen at 1280 x 853, which can do 720p. Plus you get two screens for running apps side by side.

If they can't do the invisible seam idea, I'd expect a 16:9 or 16:10 12" slate. Hopefully they'll offer a way to protect the screen though.

I will be disappointed to see the iphone OS running on it because the apps available for it just aren't anywhere near the level of functionality of desktop apps. It may encourage developers to make iphone apps more fully fledged but I doubt it.

If it's extremely cheap, it won't matter so much what it runs as long as it covers the basics - word processing etc can be done online using services like Google Docs and maybe Apple will make some cloud apps.

Along this thought of the Knowledge Nav., I've always liked this idea.
http://tommasogecchelin.wordpress.co...touch-beta-20/
Actually, foldable screen tech has been around for quite awhile. It does beg to question though, how long it could hold up to constant opening and closing.

If not 2-sided, I think it will have a closing front cover of some sort for protection, but also allowing it to stand alone on a table or desk. The inside of the cover will have mounting clips or holes for mounting brackets, sold separately, to be installed as you say, in the kitchen, bathroom, car, etc. I do trust that Jonathon Ives has come up with something elegant, cool, unobtrusive, and useful at the same time.

The trickiest part of this device is it's price-point. It really needs to be positioned similar to the iPod, in that many people have 2 or more of them. Any room in your home where you might be, where you go, "oops, where's my phone" or "I forgot my Mac in the den", you will purchase one of these to be always there.

Don't dismiss in-house bonjour, chat, and screen-sharing either. All underutilized Apple-tech.

Re: screen-size and resolution debate: as far as I know, screen-res independence is built into SL, but just not turned on. I would assume Apple has been working on adding this core-functionality into the iPhone OS as well. Thus making the debate moot once it works.

This device will NOT be a netbook-killer, because it doesn't need to be to be successful. Because once again, Apple is thinking (completely!) different.
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post #82 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I think even more than hardware its a philosophical point for Apple. They want the internet to be ruled by web standards. Apple is going through all of this effort to support and grow webkit, h.264, HTML5, and now HTTP Live Streaming. Continuing to support Flash would render this effort for nothing.

Agreed.
Flash is problematic. I have no love for Flash.
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post #83 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

Does that mean that plenty of developers would get pissed now as they have to redo their application for the bigger screen ? Your point makes no sense. If they released info about new devices earlier (at least announced multiple screen sizes), developers would have more time to prepare.

The secretiveness of Apple shows as negative factor here. This is a royal treatment really : hint the developers by obscure "rumors" that they should prepare their apps for resolution independence by supporting very ambiguous "full-screen". One word : ridiculous.

Do you think we are, brainless?
post #84 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Along this thought of the Knowledge Nav., I've always liked this idea.
http://tommasogecchelin.wordpress.co...touch-beta-20/
Actually, foldable screen tech has been around for quite awhile. It does beg to question though, how long it could hold up to constant opening and closing.

There was a demo of that type of folded screen and the 'hinge' part was pretty bulky, much bigger than the mockup. It's like when you bend a hose pipe, you either have a huge curve or it creases. Apple's love of thin would go against having any bulk. This folding type of screen was demoed at CES:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtN_TkZUOt4

The crease can still be seen at various angles but it isn't that bad but the guy mentions 1-2 years for affordability.

Given Apple's ties with LG, perhaps they'll manage to get a good deal on OLED displays. They must have gotten a big saving on 27" LED backlit IPS screens to be able to sell them at the price they do with a Core i7.

If it's going to be very cheap though, it likely won't be OLED in which case it won't fold at all. It will just be a standard 10-12" capacitive touch slate. One rumor was that it would fit in a handbag, which a 12" screen won't do. A 10" slate with iphone OS would kinda suck IMO because it's basically a big ipod. It would be like taking the screen off a Dell Mini 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxopgaEV3DE

Quite cramped.
post #85 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The article was poorly worded, but what they mean is that all the apps that are properly coded in the store now are already resolution independent.

You are incorrect to assume that "... everything so (sic) bar (is) being designed around 320x480." In fact, hard coding to a specific screen size has been discouraged from the beginning and Apple specifically told developers they didn't want them to do that. That being said, a great deal of the games in the store apparently *are* hard-coded to the screen size, so those ones, will have to be "fixed."

At least I'm pretty sure that's what the article was trying to say.

That's just flat out wrong (referring to 'resolution independent' apps). Any app with custom designed graphics is made for one size only. If there is a larger device with the exact same screen resolution, then this would be a fair statement.

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post #86 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

What is the resolution of Full Screen?

1366x768.

DeviceID=
post #87 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

1366x768.

DeviceID=

Is 1366x768 universally defined as full screen in the PC field or at least in the Apple coding world? I read full screen resolution and I cant help but think that any image using any displays complete resolution is at full screen, regardless of size, ratio or resolution.
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post #88 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Is 1366x768 universally defined as full screen in the PC field or at least in the Apple coding world? I read full screen resolution and I cant help but think that any image using any displays complete resolution is at full screen, regardless of size, ratio or resolution.

Full screen is technically defined as consuming the entire screen area. Apparently I was making an ASSUMPTION of the tablet's screen resolution.
post #89 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

Full screen is technically defined as consuming the entire screen area. Apparently I was making an ASSUMPTION of the tablet's screen resolution.

That does seem the most obvious device this ambiguous term is referring to but there is the lingering truth that Apple has been using 480x320 3.5 display in their phones since first demoed back in 2007 with dot pitch and overall smartphone competition ramping up considerably since then. I have to wonder if it might just be mid-cycle, update for a 64GB iPhone with a higher ppi.
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post #90 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

You can't talk about something that doesn't actually exist.

on this forum we do it all the time
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post #91 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So why the additional 0.3?

Why do you think that it will be running iPhone OS? I cant imagine that having 16 huge icons or having the same sized icons but with dozens on the screen makes much sense from a UI standpoint. Id wager that its going to be a hybrid behind the iPhone OS and Mac OS frameworks and foundations with an entirely new UI setup specially for a 10 display whose main interaction is finger-baed multi-touch. Other tablets and many smartphones have failed or been unfulfilling by trying to shoe-horn an OS designed for one platform into another platform. Just look at the iPhone to see that its success comes from not following everyone else down that consumer unfriendly road.

YES. This is the first post here that made sense. Running iPhone OS on a Tablet is like running Linux on a gaming rig: a freaking waste of hardware.

Since iPhone OS is just Mac OS X "dumbed down" with just the necessary for the iPhone, I would predict Apple will get Snowy's enhanced kernel and GCD, OpenCL, and simply build a custom, multi-touch interface for it. There is nearly zero need to cut off anything here, since the size and hardware specs of the device mean it will work exactly like a computer. Should the MacTablet get even a third of the developers' dedication for the iPhone, it will help drive the adoption of Snowy's techs on the Mac as well!

And while running iPhone apps may **somewhat** help its adoption, I expect the product itself and its hype to do it themselves, so this would only slow development of "proper" apps for it (because developers ARE lazy).

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post #92 of 102
I can't wait to see this. I hope I'll be able to take notes on it, and that it has handwriting recognition software on it.
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post #93 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That does seem the most obvious device this ambiguous term is referring to but there is the lingering truth that Apple has been using 480x320 3.5” display in their phones since first demoed back in 2007 with dot pitch and overall smartphone competition ramping up considerably since then. I have to wonder if it might just be mid-cycle, update for a 64GB iPhone with a higher ppi.

Anything larger than a sheet of paper (or even half a sheet of paper) will be very tiring to use. Even with the iPod touch, it can be irritating to have to interact with the screen constantly to achieve the desired operation. One-handed gestures, perhaps some kind of flipping motion or some other kind of natural motion may be needed to decrease the need for continuous 2 handed navigation and operation. Think of the old dictation recorders, or even the old Sony Walkman... these things were operable with one hand. If I'm riding a bike, I certainly don't want to be bothered with my iPod touch to adjust the screen.

No doubt whatever comes next, there will be some solid testing and improvements to the current form factor.

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post #94 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

Does that mean that plenty of developers would get pissed now as they have to redo their application for the bigger screen ? Your point makes no sense. If they released info about new devices earlier (at least announced multiple screen sizes), developers would have more time to prepare.

If you were a software developer, you'd know that technology changes that require you do "redo your application" are de rigueur. Hardware improves and advances, operating systems improve and get new features, and don't for a second lose sight of the fact that the competition is constantly improving their applications.

Apple isn't known for giving advanced notice for new stuff, the other side of that spectrum are the vaporware crowd that announce stuff that never seems to ship. But everything we know about this seems to imply that the January announcement *is* the early announcement for developers who want to write apps for it. Remember that the iPhone isn't going away, this will apparently be a new device and this rumor seems to hint that there may be a way to write iPhone applications that support both the iPhone and whatever the new device is named.

At the end of the day, I think people are a bit up in arms over something that hasn't been confirmed yet; maybe we can dial back the histrionics meter until we know something more concrete?

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post #95 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

The apps won't be blurry cause they will run "Full Screen". I would like flash as well.

If this is a tablet, then I am relatively exited. This could replace what people call netbooks (crapbooks) for good. Especially if the price is right. But it could also impact macbook air sales, cause if a tablet can run OSx and intel atom, a mobile computer user might not want a full featured laptop. Anywho, happy exiting apple year everyone!

Native iTabletwhatever apps will not be blurry, since they are made for the higher resolution. iPhone/iPod Touch apps will work, but they will open in a small window. If they are enlarged to full-screen they would look very good (like enlarging a small JPEG to full screen, or SD on a HDTV).


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Not to be pedantic, but my iPhone with a 3.5 320x480 display runs all apps full screen. Without quantifying it with a size, resolution or type (even saying using SVG) this article really is puzzling to me.

320x480 apps won't look right on a 1024x768 screen. I have no idea what the actual resolution is, but you get the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

What will be the aspect ratio?? 3:2 like the iPhone/touch, or 16:9 to tightly integrate the iTab with HDTV's, AppleTV, etc? everyone seems to be overlooking this.

of course with letter/pillar boxing you can always display one format within the other. but this choice by Apple will tell you what is the real strategic target for Apple now. either film/television in all its digital versions and monetization options, or just sucking everything into an iPhone format to maximize its installed base as the portable gold standard.

$5 says same aspect ratio as iPhone.

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post #96 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

YES. This is the first post here that made sense. Running iPhone OS on a Tablet is like running Linux on a gaming rig: a freaking waste of hardware.

That depends upon the game doesn't it? In any event when I see statements like the above it becomes pretty clear that the individual making the statement understands niether the iPhone nor Linux.
Quote:

Since iPhone OS is just Mac OS X "dumbed down" with just the necessary for the iPhone, I would predict Apple will get Snowy's enhanced kernel and GCD, OpenCL, and simply build a custom, multi-touch interface for it.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that iPhone OS is dumbed down. As far as GCD & OpenCL goes, there is no point in exposing such features until the hardware is available. That is coming though, which you would know if you followed ARM and Imagination.
Quote:
There is nearly zero need to cut off anything here, since the size and hardware specs of the device mean it will work exactly like a computer.

The fact is the iPhone is a computer too. The Tablet can be programmer any way that pleases Apple. They could even put Redhat on it if they wanted. They won't of course because they have an excellent model in iPhone.
Quote:
Should the MacTablet get even a third of the developers' dedication for the iPhone, it will help drive the adoption of Snowy's techs on the Mac as well!

Clearly you don't understand how close the two are already. I fully expect to see OpenCL on future portable devices. That won't happen though until the right hardware is implemented. You look at this as a special problem for iPhone OS I on the other hand see the two platforms running more or less the same kernels right now. It simply may be a case of adding another processor and libdispatch to iPhone and then boom you have much faster devices.
Quote:

And while running iPhone apps may **somewhat** help its adoption, I expect the product itself and its hype to do it themselves, so this would only slow development of "proper" apps for it (because developers ARE lazy).

And you would be wrong. IPhone really took of once native apps became a big thing. Apps sell computers, that has always been the case.

As to proper apps once it becomes obvious that the device is taking off there won't be any lack of developers. Honestly though if the device did support the Mac OS/X APIs there would never be proper apps. This is one of the key reasons to have the OS be an evolution of iPhone OS.

Dave
post #97 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I'm not sure where you get the idea that iPhone OS is dumbed down.

I think you are being too harsh. Its colloquial to refer to a slimming down of the codebase as dumbing down and its true that the iPhone is less capable than Mac OS X in many tasks. Stating that iPhone OS is a slimmed down version of Mac OS would have been more suitable, but I dont think its entirely incorrect.
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post #98 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

There was a demo of that type of folded screen and the 'hinge' part was pretty bulky, much bigger than the mockup. It's like when you bend a hose pipe, you either have a huge curve or it creases. Apple's love of thin would go against having any bulk. This folding type of screen was demoed at CES:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtN_TkZUOt4

The crease can still be seen at various angles but it isn't that bad but the guy mentions 1-2 years for affordability.

Given Apple's ties with LG, perhaps they'll manage to get a good deal on OLED displays. They must have gotten a big saving on 27" LED backlit IPS screens to be able to sell them at the price they do with a Core i7.

If it's going to be very cheap though, it likely won't be OLED in which case it won't fold at all. It will just be a standard 10-12" capacitive touch slate. One rumor was that it would fit in a handbag, which a 12" screen won't do. A 10" slate with iphone OS would kinda suck IMO because it's basically a big ipod. It would be like taking the screen off a Dell Mini 10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxopgaEV3DE

Quite cramped.

I'm holding on to a slim sliver of hope that somehow it will be foldable. It would revolutionize the entire personal computing industry. And Apple again would the first to market with it. But I'm guessing it's not going to happen...at least not in January.
post #99 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

I'm holding on to a slim sliver of hope that somehow it will be foldable. It would revolutionize the entire personal computing industry. And Apple again would the first to market with it. But I'm guessing it's not going to happen...at least in January.

I'm not particularly interested in whether or not Apple revolutionizes anything going forward, I just want them to continue to boldly go where no consumer electronics company has gone before.

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post #100 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'm not particularly interested in whether or not Apple revolutionizes anything going forward, I just want them to continue to boldly go where no consumer electronics company has gone before.

Well, Apple revolutionizing stuff and going where no one has gone before usually coincides.
post #101 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Well, Apple revolutionizing stuff and going where no one has gone before usually coincides.

Just a joke.

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post #102 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Just a joke.

Oh. \
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