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Apple corporate laptop sales set to increase despite Windows 7 debut

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
Apple laptop sales hit a new high in planned corporate sales in November, despite the release of Microsoft's Windows 7 operating system, a new survey has found.

ChangeWave's latest corporate IT spending survey shows that 10 percent of companies plan to buy a Mac-branded laptop in the first quarter of 2010. That's a new high for Apple, up from the 9 percent total hit in August.

"To date, Windows 7 does not appear to be hurting Apples corporate Mac sales," the study said. "Rather, planned Mac buying has hit a new high in the latest survey."

In addition, 7 percent of respondents said they intend to buy a Mac desktop in the first quarter of 2010. That share has been static for most of 2009.

Interestingly, Mac desktop sales did not budge in the corporate world despite the introduction of the new iMac and business-oriented Mac mini server in October. In overall sales, the iMac was the top-selling desktop in October, and it, along with the new Mac minis, helped Apple's overall desktop sales to increase 74 percent year over year.

The corporate study came from the ChangeWave Alliance Research Network, a group of 25,000 business, technology and medical professionals who are said to work in leading companies of select industries. It surveyed a total of 1,753 corporate buyers.



Overall, the survey found a projected uptick in IT sales for the first quarter of 2010. 73 percent of respondents said they plan to buy a laptop to start the year, while 69 percent will invest in new desktops. Those levels are the highest they have been since February 2008.

Nearly one in five upgraders (19 percent) are doing so because of the release of Windows 7. Microsoft's latest operating system debuted in October, and was met with positive reviews. Apple beat Microsoft to market with the launch of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard in August, which earned its own accolades as well.

The survey also found high user satisfaction with Windows 7. More than a third -- 37 percent -- said their company is very satisfied with the product, while 56 percent said they are somewhat satisfied. Only 4 percent were somewhat unsatisfied, and 3 percent very unsatisfied with Windows 7.
post #2 of 66
Only actual sales numbers will give an insight of how Apple is doing against the PC market. Surveys can't be trusted or relied upon.
post #3 of 66
Our own company matches this foray into everything Mac to a tee. We've opened up our infrastructure to iPhones, and we're looking at expanding support for Mac's in general.

Looks to be another good year for Apple.
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post #4 of 66
I have to use 7 as well as Mac and my impression of 7 is it isn't as bad as XP and far better than Vista ... not exactly anything to get excited about for sure. On the other hand listening to recent switchers rave about their new Macs is. There will be an exponential growth of Macs I am sure simply due to word of mouth by switchers. They are by far Apple's greatest sales asset.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #5 of 66
Quote:
Interestingly, Mac desktop sales did not budge in the corporate world despite the introduction of the new iMac and business-oriented Mac mini server in October. In overall sales, the iMac was the top-selling desktop in October, and it, along with the new Mac minis, helped Apple's overall desktop sales to increase 74 percent year over year.


First off, the iMac is not a business oriented computer. It's a 'all in one' / 'all can fail at once' type device that has no place in the general business market when cheaper and part replaceable towers are easily available from PC vendors. One can't even swap out the hard drive in iMac's! Stupid!!!


Second the Mac Mini server is a hobbyist device, it's a MacBook in a desktop form factor. It's not a server in the sense of a rack mounted server. ANY Mac can be a server for that matter.

I suspect since the Intel switch that Apple's X-Server sales have fallen off a cliff and headed for extinction, so they are trying to do something, explore the hobbyist market I guess, the X-RAID is already GONE!

Enterprise buy servers based upon the processors and other hardware features for the price, not for the OS they are going to slap on it later. Since Intel based servers can be had from nearly anyone, they don't need Apple's, and they certainly don't need Apple's OS X controlling the hardware blinking lights and other candy features if they intend to run Linux, Unix or something else.

When Apple had the powerful PPC X-Servers and Pro Towers, they did sell like hotcakes and even made the third largest supercomputer in the world at VirginaTech. Now Apple has been bitch slapped into the consumer market for good, the processor wars are over.


The increase in MacMini and iMac's went to consumers by far. This article is part propaganda, certainly misinformation.

The truth comes out in the last lines:

Quote:
The survey also found high user satisfaction with Windows 7. More than a third -- 37 percent -- said their company is very satisfied with the product, while 56 percent said they are somewhat satisfied. Only 4 percent were somewhat unsatisfied, and 3 percent very unsatisfied with Windows 7.

So that's a combined 37+56= 93% for Windows 7 and a 7% for something other than Windows 7.

I said long ago that all Microsoft has to do is make their OS better and more secure and OS X will hit the toilet.

Sure Windows 7 still needs anti-virus, but unless a flood of malware errupts and people begin to curse Microsoft again, it's going to crown out OS X in market share eventually.

I think Apple is banking on a new OS X UI for all future devices, a iPhone OS UI for iTablets and iTablet/hybid desktops.

Apple can do better in the business market for desktops if they give them what they already know, a expandable below $1000 priced tower.
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post #6 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I have to use 7 as well as Mac and my impression of 7 is it isn't as bad as XP and far better than Vista ... not exactly anything to get excited about for sure. On the other hand listening to recent switchers rave about their new Macs is. There will be an exponential growth of Macs I am sure simply due to word of mouth by switchers. They are by far Apple's greatest sales asset.

An exponential growth? Seriously?
post #7 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

First off, the iMac is not a business oriented computer. It's a 'all in one' / 'all can fail at once' type device that has no place in the general business market when cheaper and part replaceable towers are easily available from PC vendors. One can't even swap out the hard drive in iMac's! Stupid!!!

I do not know a single IT department in any big company (and I am a consultant for several) that is doing repairs. They call their service provider and could not care less if they have to open a tower or an all-in-one. Actually I know two huge corporations that buy all-in-ones almost exclusively (not Apple though) except for positions where workstations are required. We were using G5 iMacs almost exclusively throughout the company in 2005-2006. Unfortunately we had to replace most of them with Minis as glossy screens violate labour regulations here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

The truth comes out in the last lines:

So that's a combined 37+56= 93% for Windows 7 and a 7% for something other than Windows 7.

Strange logic. People can only be satisfied with one product? They were asked if they are satisfied with Windows 7, not if they think it is better than operating system XYZ. Maybe the 56% percent only "somewhat satisfied" are completely satisfied with OS X or Solaris or Linux?


Apple's biggest problem in the corporate space is not products or OS. It is support and parts. In a lot of places there are no service providers that guarantee 24/7/365 coverage and/or acceptable response times. Quite a few who did stepped back from supporting Apple, because Apple let them down with spare part delivery and they were taking the blame by the client. Having waited 4 months for one spare Cinema Display power cord myself, I don't blame them. Improving that area would require serious investments, which might not be justified at this point.
post #8 of 66
Corporate America probably feels slighted by the migration from XP to Windows 7. It is a wipe and install move. With Office on the Mac and no CALs necessary plus Exchange integration corporations must see Apple as a good alternative. Plus the machines can be dual booted with bootcamp.
post #9 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

First off, the iMac is not a business oriented computer. It's a 'all in one' / 'all can fail at once' type device that has no place in the general business market when cheaper and part replaceable towers are easily available from PC vendors. One can't even swap out the hard drive in iMac's! Stupid!!!

Second the Mac Mini server is a hobbyist device, it's a MacBook in a desktop form factor. It's not a server in the sense of a rack mounted server. ANY Mac can be a server for that matter.

I suspect since the Intel switch that Apple's X-Server sales have fallen off a cliff and headed for extinction, so they are trying to do something, explore the hobbyist market I guess, the X-RAID is already GONE!

Enterprise buy servers based upon the processors and other hardware features for the price, not for the OS they are going to slap on it later. Since Intel based servers can be had from nearly anyone, they don't need Apple's, and they certainly don't need Apple's OS X controlling the hardware blinking lights and other candy features if they intend to run Linux, Unix or something else.

When Apple had the powerful PPC X-Servers and Pro Towers, they did sell like hotcakes and even made the third largest supercomputer in the world at VirginaTech. Now Apple has been bitch slapped into the consumer market for good, the processor wars are over.

The increase in MacMini and iMac's went to consumers by far. This article is part propaganda, certainly misinformation.

The truth comes out in the last lines:

So that's a combined 37+56= 93% for Windows 7 and a 7% for something other than Windows 7.

I said long ago that all Microsoft has to do is make their OS better and more secure and OS X will hit the toilet.

Sure Windows 7 still needs anti-virus, but unless a flood of malware errupts and people begin to curse Microsoft again, it's going to crown out OS X in market share eventually.

I think Apple is banking on a new OS X UI for all future devices, a iPhone OS UI for iTablets and iTablet/hybid desktops.

Apple can do better in the business market for desktops if they give them what they already know, a expandable below $1000 priced tower.

You are getting utterly boring with your continuing bull. Give us a rest.
post #10 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

First off, the iMac is not a business oriented computer. It's a 'all in one' / 'all can fail at once' type device that has no place in the general business market when cheaper and part replaceable towers are easily available from PC vendors. One can't even swap out the hard drive in iMac's! Stupid!!!

. . .

Second the Mac Mini server is a hobbyist device, it's a MacBook in a desktop form factor. It's not a server in the sense of a rack mounted server. ANY Mac can be a server for that matter.
I said long ago that all Microsoft has to do is make their OS better and more secure and OS X will hit the toilet.

Sure Windows 7 still needs anti-virus, but unless a flood of malware errupts and people begin to curse Microsoft again, it's going to crown out OS X in market share eventually.

I think Apple is banking on a new OS X UI for all future devices, a iPhone OS UI for iTablets and iTablet/hybid desktops.

MacTripper, really?

It's pretty obvious that you're not the biggest fan of Apple, but why would you hope for the future success of a company (Micro$oft) that has brought you nothing but a substandard, virus susceptible OS for years - and limited your choice of other products (and the growth of other options through non-competitive business practices)? Why be a fan of, or loyal to, a company that forces you into its monopoly structure, only to be met with substandard products?

Why is it that people are so afraid of trying a new OS? It's not like the learning curve is that steep. Fundamentally, both Apple and MS OSs are very similar. The difference comes in the degree to which one gets you what you want / need out of your computer or device.

I switched to Apple products a few years ago out of simple frustration with MS products. I wanted something that would work without continuous user tweaking, patching, virus protecting, etc. I found what I wanted with Apple products... rock solid computing, interoperability between devices, data potability, and NO viruses!

If you're too lazy or too scared to attempt to learn a different OS, then that's one thing. But why must people who are either too lazy or afraid to investigate something new, continuously defend their current substandard choice in computing OSs / devices?

It's seriously like a form of Stockholm Syndrome! Some companies (name intentionally left out) are like an evil family member who beat or molested you... yet here you are, later in life, making excuses for them. Some people (or companies) are just no good. Just because you have had a relationship with them, doesn't mean you can't wise up at some point and move on. Ok, so that's a little extreme, and no, I was never beat or molested, but you see what I'm getting at. Why take the abuse; in the form of continual sub-standard product releases?

The same cannot be said for Apple enthusiasts. A lot of us "made the switch" and are Apple's biggest critics when products or services don't meet expectations. Unlike Micro$oft zombie loyalists, Apple loyalists made a switch at least once and will do it again when or if something better than Apple and it's ecosystem of products comes along. We are not loyalist out of laziness or fear of making a change, we are loyalist because we've found a better option that actually works as needed!

Ok, done venting. Hope I wasn't too harsh or don't get banned for my "politically insensitive" comparisons.
Hating Apple, only to love Micro$oft sure seems a little like Stockholm Syndrome to me...
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post #11 of 66
If Apple manages to turn iWork into the next Office, it could put an end to the Windows-Office monopoly. Needs a Windows version first.

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post #12 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

You are getting utterly boring with your continuing bull. Give us a rest.

Congratulations, you will now be ignored.

I'm only making discussion, if you don't like what I have to discuss and can't debate intelligently the ignore feature is yours to exploit as well.

See ya!


Opps, your already on my ignore list...guess I will sign in first from now on.
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post #13 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanPartin View Post

MacTripper, really?

It's pretty obvious that you're not the biggest fan of Apple, but why would you hope for the future success of a company (Micro$oft) that has brought you nothing but a substandard, virus susceptible OS for years - and limited your choice of other products (and the growth of other options through non-competitive business practices)? Why be a fan of, or loyal to, a company that forces you into its monopoly structure, only to be met with substandard products?


Isn't it obvious? The only people who are die-hard Windows and Microsoft fans are clearly not users, but IT professionals who've built careers on developing for and supporting the crappy Windows ecosystem. With numerous case studies showing that companies have drastically reduced the size of their IT/support departments by switching to Macs, is it surprising to learn that IT/support people love Microsoft and hate Apple?

Any time you see someone foaming at the mouth in defense of Microsoft, just do a little research into their professional background and business relationships and it won't take long to find a dependency on Microsoft for their livelihood.

Apple does not and should not target the corporate market because this is a market driven not by actual users but by pencil pushing administrators easily deluded by misleading spec sheets and white papers, which are Microsoft's forte. This is an arena where a low up front cost always trumps total cost of ownership. If Apple began catering to the corporate market it wouldn't be long before they were pressured to abandon everything they stand for and cave in to the lowest common denominator business model embraced by companies like Dell and HP, known for their substandard products.
post #14 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanPartin View Post

MacTripper, really?

It's pretty obvious that you're not the biggest fan of Apple, but why would you hope for the future success of a company (Micro$oft) that has brought you nothing but a substandard, virus susceptible OS for years - and limited your choice of other products (and the growth of other options through non-competitive business practices)? Why be a fan of, or loyal to, a company that forces you into its monopoly structure, only to be met with substandard products?

I'm Apple's biggest fan, from the first 512k days. I've met just about all the top Apple brass one time or another over the many years.

Apple knows, as well as I know, that OS X reigns as a supreme OS ONLY as long as Windows is crap. Windows 7 so far isn't crap and that is bad news for OS X and Mac's.

People tend to side with a OS that "everyone else uses" and it's hard for them to change.


Quote:
Why is it that people are so afraid of trying a new OS? It's not like the learning curve is that steep. Fundamentally, both Apple and MS OSs are very similar. The difference comes in the degree to which one gets you what you want / need out of your computer or device.

I use OS X, Vista, XP, Win 7, Chrome and Ubuntu all at the same time in Fusion. You can thank Apple for making me OS neutral, I used to only use OS X because it was the only thing that ran on Mac's.

Quote:
I switched to Apple products a few years ago out of simple frustration with MS products. I wanted something that would work without continuous user tweaking, patching, virus protecting, etc. I found what I wanted with Apple products... rock solid computing, interoperability between devices, data potability, and NO viruses!

Good for you. Ubuntu doesn't get viruses neither for that matter.

Microsoft can make that little change to make their OS so it's just as secure as Unix, Linux or OS X. It's called file permissions. Then it may be secure enough to nearly erase the reason for getting a Mac for security.

Microsoft moves, but it moves slowly and clumsy, eventually stumbling in the right direction. It eventually erodes all the reasons one would need a Mac over a Windows PC.

I actually hope Windows 7 becomes the virus laden POS it deserves to be, just to keep Mac sales and adoption strong.


Quote:
...and are Apple's biggest critics when products or services don't meet expectations. Unlike Micro$oft zombie loyalists, Apple loyalists made a switch at least once and will do it again when or if something better than Apple and it's ecosystem of products comes along. We are not loyalist out of laziness or fear of making a change, we are loyalist because we've found a better option that actually works as needed!

That's my reasoning. I use the best product available and that has been OS X or either System x for many years.

My thoughts are that the reasons for getting a Mac are now dwindling, provided if Windows 7 has fixed the glaring permissions issue and other security problems that plague it.

One used to get a Mac for the desktop publishing software, it's security, it's better looks and more reliable hardware. Those reasons are falling by the wayside more and more.

If Windows 7 is nearly virus free, then there really isn't much reason not to use it.
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post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Isn't it obvious? The only people who are die-hard Windows and Microsoft fans are clearly not users, but IT professionals who've built careers on developing for and supporting the crappy Windows ecosystem. With numerous case studies showing that companies have drastically reduced the size of their IT/support departments by switching to Macs, is it surprising to learn that IT/support people love Microsoft and hate Apple?

. . .

freediverx, couldn't agree more.

This is an argument I've made many times over myself. Just didn't include it in my post because I was taking the Stockholm Syndrome angle, which sadly enough, I believe accounts for most of the remaining MS loyalists.
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Hating Apple, only to love Micro$oft sure seems a little like Stockholm Syndrome to me...
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post #16 of 66
So we're seeing more interest in Macs in business settings but that does equate to better market share in the enterprise sector. For all we know the interest could be for only a handful of Macs for creating, distributing and maintaining enterprise iPhone apps in-house.

My gut feeling with the release of Win7 and so many companies that have held off installing Vista and having sufficient time to test Win7 and ready in-house apps is that Mac marketshare and installed base will drop for the first couple quarters ofthe Win7 release.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Congratulations, you will now be ignored.

I'm only making discussion, if you don't like what I have to discuss and can't debate intelligently the ignore feature is yours to exploit as well.

It's hard your judge your validity at times. You post long thought out posts using good grammar and structure but you miss or brush over other things that make it hard to take you serious.

Case in point, I'm very happy with Windows 7 but I'm more happy with 10.6. From a change from WinXP or Vista to Win7 I'm more happy about the improvement than I am from 10.5 to 10.6, but that is relative and does not mean that 10.6 was a bad release in any way.
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post #17 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

I do not know a single IT department in any big company (and I am a consultant for several) that is doing repairs. They call their service provider and could not care less if they have to open a tower or an all-in-one. Actually I know two huge corporations that buy all-in-ones almost exclusively (not Apple though) except for positions where workstations are required. We were using G5 iMacs almost exclusively throughout the company in 2005-2006. Unfortunately we had to replace most of them with Minis as glossy screens violate labour regulations here.

A lot of IT departments I know can at least switch out the hard drive, it's a faster way to get the machine back into service after a hosed Windows. It's not a repair mind you, just switching a component, like a keyboard or monitor. Apple allows it too in their open towers if a hard drive dies and they just send you a new one to self install.

And it's too bad about the glossy screens, there are anti-glare filters online you know. Don't know how well they work, I still cling to my 15" matte MBP.




Quote:
Strange logic. People can only be satisfied with one product? They were asked if they are satisfied with Windows 7, not if they think it is better than operating system XYZ. Maybe the 56% percent only "somewhat satisfied" are completely satisfied with OS X or Solaris or Linux?

"Somewhat satisfied" is satisfied, and certainly satisfied enough not to undergo a OS change.


Quote:
Apple's biggest problem in the corporate space is not products or OS. It is support and parts. In a lot of places there are no service providers that guarantee 24/7/365 coverage and/or acceptable response times. Quite a few who did stepped back from supporting Apple, because Apple let them down with spare part delivery and they were taking the blame by the client. Having waited 4 months for one spare Cinema Display power cord myself, I don't blame them. Improving that area would require serious investments, which might not be justified at this point.


I agree Apple could do a lot more in the business space as far as sales and service goes, but when the first Apple Stores started to appear, Apple killed off it's corporate sales or something.

So people who set up to sales and service of Apple products, making their own companies, got shafted by Apple and have been gone since.
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post #18 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

Apple's biggest problem in the corporate space is not products or OS. It is support and parts. In a lot of places there are no service providers that guarantee 24/7/365 coverage and/or acceptable response times. Quite a few who did stepped back from supporting Apple, because Apple let them down with spare part delivery and they were taking the blame by the client. Having waited 4 months for one spare Cinema Display power cord myself, I don't blame them. Improving that area would require serious investments, which might not be justified at this point.

In my opinion, and I work for a very large corporate enterprise (had been in IT, now in Information Security) Apple has several roadblocks in larger corporations. 1) Most obviously, price. Windows-based laptops and desktops can be purchased/leased in the neighborhood of $400-500, and these are well equipped. Higher end "engineering workstations" cost only about $100 more. 2) Embedded base of applications are Windows-only, these include OTC and numerous custom apps. The cost to a corporation to move to Apple-compatible apps, or to add those apps to the mix would be incredible. 3) As someone noted earlier, many (most?) large companies outsource their hardware/software/helpdesk support. Support for an additional desktop OS would add considerable cost, as would support of the unique hardware. To say nothing of the additional training costs to migrate. Also as someone noted, parts availability could be a major issue, we require sufficient stock on-hand, ranging from motherboards to harddrive. If that's a non-issue for Apple, good.

None of this is to say that Apple products can't be used in niche areas within my company. They already are, but compared to Windows-based workstations they are less than 1% and i don't see that changing appreciably.
post #19 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's hard your judge your validity at times. You post long thought out posts using good grammar and structure but you miss or brush over other things that make it hard to take you serious.


Why are you taking anything people post serious for?


Quote:
Case in point, I'm very happy with Windows 7 but I'm more happy with 10.6. From a change from WinXP or Vista to Win7 I'm more happy about the improvement than I am from 10.5 to 10.6, but that is relative and does not mean that 10.6 was a bad release in any way.


In other words your saying I ramble?

If it's too much for you, you know what to do.
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post #20 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Perhaps it's because your always looking for troll or something, which I'm not.

If I thought you were trolling I wouldn’t have written what I wrote. I don’t think you were looking at the stats objectively. If you want to “thinking outside the box” then see that to like one OS does not mean disliking another.

Also, interestingly to me, an increase in sales for one product can often mean an increase in sales for a competing product. We’ve seen it with the Blackberry gaining in the smartphone market segment, not just because of discounts, but seemingly because the iPhone has made that market segment popular to the average customer. It appears that Windows 7 spurring of PC sales may also be increasing Mac sales to a degree. If there is a name for this I do not know what it is: my imagination?

Quote:
In other words your saying I ramble?

Hardly. That was an example of how I think both are a success in several ways. I surely can’t call anyone a rambler on here. I so try to be as succinct as Addabox but I often fall short… very short.

Quote:
If we were all the same, we would be Nazi's or something.

:cough: Godwin’s Law :cough:
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post #21 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If I thought you were trolling I wouldnt have written what I wrote. I dont think you were looking at the stats objectively. If you want to thinking outside the box then see that to like one OS does not mean disliking another.

right.

Quote:
Also, interestingly to me, an increase in sales for one product can often mean an increase in sales for a competing product. Weve seen it with the Blackberry gaining in the smartphone market segment, not just because of discounts, but seemingly because the iPhone has made that market segment popular to the average customer. It appears that Windows 7 spurring of PC sales may also be increasing Mac sales to a degree. If there is a name for this I do not know what it is: my imagination?


Market awareness. The advertising brings attention to market, just not the brand.

I wonder how much PC companies sales have increased from Apple's "Get a Mac" campaign?


Could it be that Apple and their seemingly high prices (or lets say lack of cheap versions) actually caused the surge in netbooks sales?

People could have took one look at the $1000+ price tag for a MacBook and ran for the $400 netbooks instead.

I don't see much advertising for netbooks working for Apple.


Quote:
:cough: Godwins Law :cough:


Haha! Just Wiki-ed that one. Learn a new thing everyday.

There really is no stone left unturned is there?



Got to go, friends and family are here. Enjoy your weekend.

For those who got ignored, put on a happy face. Debate is good, speculation is good, but attacks, name calling and trolling is not appreciated by anyone.
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post #22 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

First off, the iMac is not a business oriented computer. It's a 'all in one' / 'all can fail at once' type device that has no place in the general business market.

Like laptops, and you don't see many of those in business...Oh, hang on!

Speaking of FAIL, so does your argument.
post #23 of 66
"Unlike Micro$oft zombie loyalists, Apple loyalists made a switch at least once and will do it again when or if something better than Apple and it's ecosystem of products comes along."

I have never met anyone who is an MS zombie loyalist, and I work in IT, MS is the company everyone loves to hate even though they are paying for their products every year.
Apple on the other hand are seriously let down by their zealot zombie legions who swallow anything thats given to them to make them feel superior (Like this totally fact free article)

Increasing Macbook sales don't hurt MS, I support lots of company owned Macbooks they use OSX for home fun stuff but have XP/7 installed for work.
A large portion of Mac sales convert into Windows 7 sales for boot camp, strange this isn't mentioned at all in the article.
I'm a Macbook (and iMac) owner myself but with the new ranges of super thin metal PC laptops becoming available it makes it harder and harder to justify paying the extra for the mac.
post #24 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Like laptops, and you don't see many of those in business...Oh, hang on!

Speaking of FAIL, so does your argument.



You do have a very good counter argument there.

However many laptops allow the easy exchange of hard drives, memory and batteries. The items that fail the most and can be serviced in house, just like a open tower. This is something a experienced IT Dept. considers when buying new hardware, saving the company money. (and justifying their jobs in the process)

Apple is the one who lately has been locking down their hardware so nearly nothing is user serviceable. What's especially strange is for some machines they will allow hard drives to be removed from laptops and then others not. It's like they are confused and it doesn't bode well for those trying to commit to the platform with no consistency.

Only the MacPro, nearly everything else you lose the whole machine for some time while it's being repaired. This is unacceptable to businesses who large installations have one, two, three or more machines failing a week, mostly from Windows.

It only takes a IT guy a few minutes to slap a newly formatted and Ghosted hard drive in a hosed Windows box and it's ready to get back to work. No need to remove it from the cubicle.

A failed iMac? It's got to go to Apple, the whole darn computer. Live far away? It's go to be shipped.

The company data is on the iMac's hard drive too, for the geeks to sell to the competition. This is also unacceptable.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #25 of 66
Hey, you want a fast Windows 7 laptop with great battery life, good weight and all the bells and whistles? Get a Mac.

My clients realized this years ago when I started bringing a MacBook (sometimes a pro) to their office. I ran on battery power the entire meeting, had bluetooth going and my screens looked better and had a better color to them. Case, point, end of discussion.

The MacBook Air really cemented a few converts too. It's not doing well with the consumer but in Biz it is doing very well. It's the BMW to your Cadillac, slimer, faster, quicker, better looking.

On the Windows side... DUMP THE STUPID VGA PORTS! Seriosly, do I need VGA in 2010? And whats with the sliced underbelly? Why all the vents? Can't hire a thermal engineer worth a lick.

Happy Holidaze to everyone!
post #26 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

You do have a very good counter argument there.

However many laptops allow the easy exchange of hard drives, memory and batteries. The items that fail the most and can be serviced in house, just like a open tower. This is something a experienced IT Dept. considers when buying new hardware, saving the company money. (and justifying their jobs in the process)

Apple is the one who lately has been locking down their hardware so nearly nothing is user serviceable. What's especially strange is for some machines they will allow hard drives to be removed from laptops and then others not. It's like they are confused and it doesn't bode well for those trying to commit to the platform with no consistency.

Only the MacPro, nearly everything else you lose the whole machine for some time while it's being repaired. This is unacceptable to businesses who large installations have one, two, three or more machines failing a week, mostly from Windows.

It only takes a IT guy a few minutes to slap a newly formatted and Ghosted hard drive in a hosed Windows box and it's ready to get back to work. No need to remove it from the cubicle.

A failed iMac? It's got to go to Apple, the whole darn computer. Live far away? It's go to be shipped.

The company data is on the iMac's hard drive too, for the geeks to sell to the competition. This is also unacceptable.

It's "not user serviceable" to an idiot. I have no issues getting into one. All those holes, ports, vents, etc come at a cost and that cost is CREAKY PLASTIC, not very Exec Like. They are put together REALLY Well. Buy a computer from Dell, Acer, Gateway, and even HP to an extent and you'll get misaligned lines, poor port placement and edges sharp enough to cut you (AND YES I DID GET CUT!!! ARGH!). But with Apple you get the best components, top notch quality, and yes you will need someone with an IQ to service them but that's what they are paying IT for, right? On a side note it does HELP IT when the laptop is tough to get into because it means less tech-theft like when Bob takes his 8gb Laptop home over the weekend and it comes back with 2gb. That's a loss of $600 to the company.

PC's are like 80's American cars - crappy builds, misaligned parts, too much venting holes ugly as sin looks, Apple is like Lexus and BMW rolled into one - precision cut aluminum with extremely high technical quality and engineering all wrapped around the best components price points can buy.
post #27 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthletter View Post

"Unlike Micro$oft zombie loyalists, Apple loyalists made a switch at least once and will do it again when or if something better than Apple and it's ecosystem of products comes along."

I have never met anyone who is an MS zombie loyalist, and I work in IT, MS is the company everyone loves to hate even though they are paying for their products every year.
Apple on the other hand are seriously let down by their zealot zombie legions who swallow anything thats given to them to make them feel superior (Like this totally fact free article)

Increasing Macbook sales don't hurt MS, I support lots of company owned Macbooks they use OSX for home fun stuff but have XP/7 installed for work.
A large portion of Mac sales convert into Windows 7 sales for boot camp, strange this isn't mentioned at all in the article.
I'm a Macbook (and iMac) owner myself but with the new ranges of super thin metal PC laptops becoming available it makes it harder and harder to justify paying the extra for the mac.

It did take them 9 years to get their act together. I too am liking the new kit but those horrible screens and LOW resolutions put me off big time.
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by xwiredtva View Post

PC's are like 80's American cars - crappy builds, misaligned parts, too much venting holes ugly as sin looks, Apple is like Lexus and BMW rolled into one - precision cut aluminum with extremely high technical quality and engineering all wrapped around the best components price points can buy.

Yeah, like the Nvidia 9600?
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

You are getting utterly boring with your continuing bull. Give us a rest.

For sake of those of us who know how to use the ignore function, is it really necessary to quote the trolls entire post?
post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Apple does not and should not target the corporate market because this is a market driven not by actual users but by pencil pushing administrators easily deluded by misleading spec sheets and white papers, which are Microsoft's forte.

I think you are reading a little too much into things. Apple hasn't targeted the corporate market because before 10.6, the foundations of Mac OSX were constantly shifting. Wholesale API changes, new frameworks - kind of like Google tagging everything "Beta", buy focusing just on consumers, Apple had the flexibility to make radical changes without having to be apologetic to corporate customers - since that wasn't their focus.

Now with 10.6, it looks like Mac OSX is maturing to a point where Apple can start to go out for the enterprise. I think you are seeing that with the tighter and native integration with Active Directory and Exchange. With the iPhone paving the way for awareness, the timing has never been better.
post #31 of 66
Mactripper has really valid points. In enterprise the reason to buy Apple is well...zero unless your main thing is publishing or digital media. One iMac is 2-3 PCs easily, in a corporate environment there are literally zero reasons to buy a fleet of macs, while the mac mini would seem like a viable option, 599 for just a computer which you most likely need to still get W7 for it, so why bother?

We personally have a fleet of dells and if something goes wrong we have service the very next day, and with all our stuff ghosted we can easily put the said offender back into action (not to say Apple doesn't have ghosting options). Most of the people on here trying to hound him are so blind by fanboyism that you can't even logically think of any good reasons to make a real push towards mac in enterprise without sounding like Justin Long
post #32 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Mactripper has really valid points. In enterprise the reason to buy Apple is well...zero unless your main thing is publishing or digital media. One iMac is 2-3 PCs easily, in a corporate environment there are literally zero reasons to buy a fleet of macs, while the mac mini would seem like a viable option, 599 for just a computer which you most likely need to still get W7 for it, so why bother?

We personally have a fleet of dells and if something goes wrong we have service the very next day, and with all our stuff ghosted we can easily put the said offender back into action (not to say Apple doesn't have ghosting options). Most of the people on here trying to hound him are so blind by fanboyism that you can't even logically think of any good reasons to make a real push towards mac in enterprise without sounding like Justin Long

No, he doesnt nad neither do you. The problem with Apple succeeding in the enterprise is not because that they arent selling a small configurable tower. Apple inability to succeed in the enterprise is due to their Mac business model which focuses on the consumer.

Even if Apple made the mythical xMac with a million configurable methods there are still huge problems that prevent Macs from making a dent in the enterprise. For starters, Apples lack of OS licensing creates a huge problem for enterprise use. By only selling Mac OS X with the HW then they will forced to buy from Apple if they wish to continue to use Macs which makes Macs much more costly over PC vendors clamoring for a companies business when the result is still the same OS with the same UI and I/O despite using many PC vendors.

Buying a Mac and paying for Mac OS X just to force Windows use is not cost effective. Executives can get away with this and Apples current product offerings already suit many of their elitist needs.

Finally, Apple is quick to drop legacy code, force developers to update their software and to drop support for legacy HW. There are a few exceptions, but not many. Mac OS X is clearly geared as a consumer OS. MS on the other hand has no choice but to support a great deal of HW and legacy code in their OS. This creates a lot of problems for MS OS, but it also puts Windows in the unique position that has yet to have any challengers and having an xMac will not change anything.

Those are few on the main issues as to why Mac OS X is simply not designed to compete in the enterprise. Unless Apple licenses their OS to other vendors and offers a clear roadmap to allow for corporate planning they cant compete. There is nothing wrong with both business models succeeding in their own niche.
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post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

Mactripper has really valid points. In enterprise the reason to buy Apple is well...zero unless your main thing is publishing or digital media.

Or anything related to mathmatics, science, or where you would have traditionally used a Unix based workstation. He doesn't make valid points, just myopic yet sweeping generalizations.

For the average office worker, you are correct - a Mac is probably overkill. However, because of the iPhone and the popularity of the Mac at home, users are now starting to request and demand Mac's in the office.

As for prices, Mac's tend to have double the useful life of a Windows PC - mainly because the OS doesn't rot in place like Windows tends to. Some of it is also the higher speced hardware that Apple provides simply lasts longer because it's more powerful with a longer service life than bargain basement disposable PC's. That starts to balance out the cost equation. When you factor in the new energy star and EPEAT standards that focus on the entire life cycle of a computer, not just it's energy efficiency, the longer useful life of a Mac is an even greater advantage. Blind focus on initial purchase price is going to be a road to public relations disaster with the popularity of environmentalism and very public focusing on "carbon footprints". Industry norms used to be for a three year life cycle for desktops and laptops - to reduce "eWaste" Energy Star and EPEAT both are pushing for five year life cycles. Don't underestimate the power of things like EPEAT to influence buying patterns.

Quote:
We personally have a fleet of dells and if something goes wrong we have service the very next day, and with all our stuff ghosted we can easily put the said offender back into action (not to say Apple doesn't have ghosting options).

In some way's Mac OSX is easier to deploy than Windows. And there is no practical reason why you couldn't do the same thing you outline here with a Mac.

And Apple isn't the only one that has had delivery issues from time to time - even the famed Dell is having delivery issues right now - we are experiencing significant and continual delays due to several supply shortages. That's life.

Quote:
Most of the people on here trying to hound him are so blind by fanboyism that you can't even logically think of any good reasons to make a real push towards mac in enterprise without sounding like Justin Long

I don't think there is a need to push - nor is it reasonable to expect the Mac to displace Windows. But they are here to stay. That's not blind fanboyism, there are legitimate reasons to use a Mac vs a Windows machine (and yes, user preference is a perfectly valid reason). After all, computers are just tools. Mac's are becoming an officially supported platform in my organization, and I never thought I would see that happen. We have several very active user communities and they have, on their own, created the same security standards and management standards for the Mac's as we have for our Windows desktops. It's made it that much easier to make the argument that they should be a supported platform, and that's exactly what is happening now - those community grown standards and policies are now being validated and rolled into our IT fabric. The next iteration of my work provided laptop will probably be a MacBook Pro - and there is a good chance I will procure it via a sanctioned enterprise hardware contract. Just a couple years ago I would have told you that would never happen.
post #34 of 66
there are millions of small companies like mine \\that love or COULD love the mac .

the fear that msft has instilled into many minds stops any progress at all . if these small biz owners only knew the joy of a mac . the ease of use,

a mac can run 24/7 for 5 yrs and still excell .. can the windell's say the same ??

small buisness makes up the bulk of p/c users not big clone buying companies .

merry christmas to all

peace 9
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post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

blah..blah..blah...

Apple can do better in the business market for desktops if they give them what they already know, a expandable below $1000 priced tower.

The same tired old rhetoric.

Oh if I had a penny for all the times I 've heard about the expandable tower below $1000.

IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN, GET OVER IT.

Under $1000 and expandable is nonsense, because in a few years time when one wants to expand/upgrade/etc. you might as well throw the tower out of the window because no expansion will be better in terms of price/performance than an new all in one computer. It's been proven historically time and again...Take a 4 year old pc tower and try to expand it....right, no sata II, no chips that fit, slow memory...not that expandable.

If one really wants an super powerful and expandable tower there's the mac pro for that, end of story.

What really bothers me with that moronic rhetoric, is how impervious the proponents are to reality. If there proposed scheme is so great how come apple with their complete line up is outgrowing pc's in this segment, even considering how a lot of pc software doesn't have a good mac counterpart in some business applications...

Give it a rest, it's 2010 already.
post #36 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthletter View Post

I have never met anyone who is an MS zombie loyalist.

Go over at the moron's playground that is engadget to meet MS zombie loyalists, and also almost all mainstream tec sites. These people are the pits when it comes to intelligence, they are fanatical and endlessly grateful for a platform that has brought them grief, failed ideas, vapourware, inability to adapt and evolve, complete and utter lack of vision, and the constant copying in an inferior way of other peoples ideas.

For crying out loud, in 2019 ms copies the dock in 7 and it's hailed by the paid advertisers that are the mainstream tec media as some sort of revolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanPartin View Post

A lot of us "made the switch" and are Apple's biggest critics when products or services don't meet expectations. Unlike Micro$oft zombie loyalists, Apple loyalists made a switch at least once and will do it again when or if something better than Apple and it's ecosystem of products comes along. We are not loyalist out of laziness or fear of making a change, we are loyalist because we've found a better option that actually works as needed!

Post of the year for me, very, very well put. Bravo! Please allow me to use it as my next sig.
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Or anything related to mathmatics, science, or where you would have traditionally used a Unix based workstation. He doesn't make valid points, just myopic yet sweeping generalizations.

For the average office worker, you are correct - a Mac is probably overkill. However, because of the iPhone and the popularity of the Mac at home, users are now starting to request and demand Mac's in the office.

As for prices, Mac's tend to have double the useful life of a Windows PC - mainly because the OS doesn't rot in place like Windows tends to. Some of it is also the higher speced hardware that Apple provides simply lasts longer because it's more powerful with a longer service life than bargain basement disposable PC's. That starts to balance out the cost equation. When you factor in the new energy star and EPEAT standards that focus on the entire life cycle of a computer, not just it's energy efficiency, the longer useful life of a Mac is an even greater advantage. Blind focus on initial purchase price is going to be a road to public relations disaster with the popularity of environmentalism and very public focusing on "carbon footprints". Industry norms used to be for a three year life cycle for desktops and laptops - to reduce "eWaste" Energy Star and EPEAT both are pushing for five year life cycles. Don't underestimate the power of things like EPEAT to influence buying patterns.



In some way's Mac OSX is easier to deploy than Windows. And there is no practical reason why you couldn't do the same thing you outline here with a Mac.

And Apple isn't the only one that has had delivery issues from time to time - even the famed Dell is having delivery issues right now - we are experiencing significant and continual delays due to several supply shortages. That's life.



I don't think there is a need to push - nor is it reasonable to expect the Mac to displace Windows. But they are here to stay. That's not blind fanboyism, there are legitimate reasons to use a Mac vs a Windows machine (and yes, user preference is a perfectly valid reason). After all, computers are just tools. Mac's are becoming an officially supported platform in my organization, and I never thought I would see that happen. We have several very active user communities and they have, on their own, created the same security standards and management standards for the Mac's as we have for our Windows desktops. It's made it that much easier to make the argument that they should be a supported platform, and that's exactly what is happening now - those community grown standards and policies are now being validated and rolled into our IT fabric. The next iteration of my work provided laptop will probably be a MacBook Pro - and there is a good chance I will procure it via a sanctioned enterprise hardware contract. Just a couple years ago I would have told you that would never happen.

As someone who owned pcs and use a mac (powerpc mini hooked up to the bravia, a hackintosh and my roommates macbook) I've yet to experience Windows just bogging to death unless you have a million programs installed but let's not be naïve and think macs don't suffer from the same thing because they do, one look at my roommates macbook reaffirms that. But I never install a gang of software on anything I own because well I know I'll never use it.

Anyways now that Apple has switched to Intel I'd say they have the same failure rate and are equally spec'd against comparable pc's neglecting displays. I read far too often about Apple products failing and not being more than a few years old, To me its a fact of life and you expect things to die eventually so I will just go out and say that the hardware itself has the same life as its pc brethren which isn't surprising seeing as how they are near identical now.

Paying the Apple tax is nice for consumers because they want a better experience than Windows and expect they to get a better experience, paying the Apple tax in enterprise is about as silly as they come, we don't care about a flashy dock or expose, or the Apple experience, we care first and foremost about doing work and being easy to manage and watch (they keep a sharp eye on everyone who sits at a computer at work)

We upgrade our computers 5-6 years to more efficient and powerful units unless they are just minimally used in which case they are the last to be upgraded. Macs aren't compatible with our software we run at the resort, so it will never be an option for us unless we put Windows on it, in which point we could have just bought a PC. It would be nice to see a bit of experimentation at work, but I know it won't happen.

Still Apple will be fine, they make their money on the consumer segment and MS dominates the enterprise and consumer market. Apple doesn't need to change the formula from what their doing to be successful
post #38 of 66
My corporation unfortunately buys PCs all the time. Yet they cause me nothing but consternation. The initial price might be less for PCs, but the total cost including down time caused by malicious bugs, etc., and other Windows-related problems cannot be less. I've spent minutes, hours and days in an unproductive mode because of PCs. My corporation needs to wake up and start buying Macs so all of its employees can be more productive and in long run save our customers money. It's inconceivable to me my bosses can't see the light.
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post #39 of 66
"The survey also found high user satisfaction with Windows 7. More than a third -- 37 percent"

I don't know why, but I find that sentence funny. Is it just me or do we now consider anything over 30% a success in terms of satisfaction with an OS. I consider that a failure. What was Vista's satisfaction percentage before word got out it was a dog?

I'm sure that there are a few surveys that showed 10.5 getting off to a bit of a slow start. That begs me to ask why in these two platforms, have they made such huge efforts in getting the visual part down, but have really dropped the ball on the everyday things. IMHO Leopard is broken, and Snow Leopard is also broken AND still has a lot of PPC code in it.

http://rixstep.com/1/2/20091110,00.shtml

Does it boil down to a mass exodus of coders that are retiring and the next generation doesn't have the skill of the previous ones? Or, is it an attempt to make you buy all new stuff every 3 years?

I want to hear from longtime Mac users and see what their opinion is. Is it one step forward and two back or am I being too hard on Apple?
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifail View Post

I've yet to experience Windows just bogging to death

I love how the miracle windows operators come out of the woodwork in these kinds of discussions

I'm happy for you. You are in the minority. If this was the non-issue you are trying to portray it to be, it wouldn't be discussed with such frequency on websites and tech blogs, and there wouldn't be a whole cottage industry of registry cleaners and programs to speed windows up.

On the other hand, when I purchased my MacBook Pro, I hooked it into my 5 year old PowerBook G4 and transferred all my programs and files over. I didn't even have to re-install any software. Sure it took about 5 hours to copy everything over, but it was almost 200GB's of data and applications. And if I do have an issue with my OS, I can do an archive and install or a re-install under 10.6 - and all my settings and programs are preserved.

Windows has no equivalent. The registry sucks. It's a bad design. What brilliant person thought it was a good idea to put all the critical system settings in an easily corruptible flat database with no fault tolerance? At least with preference files on the Mac, if I have a problem with one application it's just that one application, not my whole system. I'm not going to render my Mac unbootable by deleting a preference file, but you can kill a windows install in the registry editor if you aren't very careful.

Quote:
Anyways now that Apple has switched to Intel I'd say they have the same failure rate and are equally spec'd against comparable pc's neglecting displays.

There are different levels of quality in parts - not all suppliers are created equally. Also, the way they are put together matters too. But it's just not about parts that fail - as you point out, that affects everyone at one point or another...

Quote:
I read far too often about Apple products failing and not being more than a few years old, To me its a fact of life and you expect things to die eventually so I will just go out and say that the hardware itself has the same life as its pc brethren which isn't surprising seeing as how they are near identical now.

See, that's where you are wrong. I have plenty of older PC's that still work - the key difference is, because you can get lower end components, people often do. Focused on short term costs and not overall life cycle. The difference is those PC's are practically useless running todays software. I have a machine I built and it takes only 1 gig of RAM! Now true, I built it to do one specific task at the time, but if I had spent $50 more on a better motherboard, that machine would be useful for so much more. It can make a good firewall right now, but that's about it. I learned my lesson on that one. The upper middle - that's where you want to be. Best overall value for money expended. That's the space that Apple excels at (and why they have a market cap that exceeds google).

Take Dell for example, I just went over and started browsing through their desktop machines - not until you get up into the $600 machines do you hit computers that can take more than 4 gigs of RAM. How future proof is that? Memory is one of the best things you can do to improve performance, cost for cost. Even the Mac mini can take 8 gigs of RAM now. Yeah, you can buy a $300 machine today - but the next version of Office will render it basically unusable.

So yes, you can buy cheaper PC's - but at the expense of long term usage and flexibility.

Quote:
Paying the Apple tax

There is no Apple tax. You can buy a quality machine, or you can buy cheaper less capable hardware. If you want a stripped, bare bones experience, congratulations - there are plenty of Windows PC vendors who are happy to oblige you.

Quote:
paying the Apple tax in enterprise is about as silly as they come

Really? Feature for feature, the iMac is a great machine. It's all-in-one form factor is very clean and easy to deploy. It reduces clutter in an employee's work area. Mac's have fewer issues than PC's, starting with the lack of viruses or malware, easier software and OS maintenance and overall more pleasurable user experience. Their industrial design is top notch. We have less help desk tickets from our Mac users - that's something we can and do measure. Facts - the opposite of made up "feelings" in an Internet forum.

Quote:
we don't care about a flashy dock or expose, or the Apple experience, we care first and foremost about doing work and being easy to manage and watch (they keep a sharp eye on everyone who sits at a computer at work)

Then computers that simply work better from the start should be of great interest to you. Unless you have some innately irrational dislike for Mac's (or just a lack of experience - why are you on a Mac site again?)

Quote:
Macs aren't compatible with our software we run at the resort, so it will never be an option for us unless we put Windows on it, in which point we could have just bought a PC. It would be nice to see a bit of experimentation at work, but I know it won't happen.

Then that's the best reason to not use a Mac. They aren't for everyone, but where they can work they often make a great fit. Our users think so.

Quote:
Still Apple will be fine, they make their money on the consumer segment and MS dominates the enterprise and consumer market. Apple doesn't need to change the formula from what their doing to be successful

Your absolutely right - Apple is already successful - with a minority market share they take a majority profit.

But there still is room for them to improve. As I have said, between the iPhone and the maturing of Mac OSX, I expect Apple to start moving in and taking the high end of the enterprise computer business just like they have in the consumer space. The timing is good, and OSX 10.6 integrates into an Active Directory/Exchange environment very well. As they have shown in the consumer space, they don't have to take the majority of the market share to be successful. They just have to take the most profitable chunks. I have no doubt they will eventually do it - they already have a demonstrated track record in the consumer space for computers, for music players and now smartphones. It's not a fluke, they know their target markets and how to win them. When they finally do "get serious" about the enterprise, it will be very obvious. And yes, they are paying attention. Trust me, so is MS and vendors like Dell, HP, Acer, etc.
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