Apple TV 3.0 update not helping sales as AirPort routers lose share - Page 2

ease of use is nice, what about security? and not just encryption. can you disable SSID broadcasts, enable MAC filtering, lessen broadcasting power to lessen your range and other features that aren't intuitive?

No surprise that aTV isn't selling, there's no compelling reason to get it and there are competing boxes that offer much more.

I'd probably buy an aTV if it could stream Hulu, abc.com, netflix, and any other web video. I don't even really think dvd ripping (never gonna happen) or even other codec support is that important, on a new i7 machine handbrake can convert an hour show in about six minutes.

At this point, I'd consider something like a PS3 way before an aTV, it can do bluray (which doesn't interest me at all, but I'll probably get into it at some point just because I don't want to buy any more movies in DVD format), stream netflix, and play other video formats. Not to mention I hear it's not a bad game console, all for not much more than the aTV.

aTV isn't a bad hardware box, it just needs to be able to play back a ton more things. Or a price drop to like $99. Or both.

None of the airports have ever appealed to me, don't really get it.

The typical consumer is going to ask "Why bother?"

Ripping CDs to use on an mp3 player makes sense. It is a portable device. Using mp3s saves you from carrying around a bulky collection of CDs. In addition, there are other advantages such as custom playlists that cannot be done with CDs.

This does not apply to movies. People are much less likely to carry movies around with them (especially on a daily basis) so increased portability is not really a factor and it is unlikely they want to use playlists or to randomize viewing order. Therefore, what is the benefit for the average consumer to make it worth their time, effort and money (cost of HDDs and the AppleTV)?

I have an AppleTV and do like the ability to easily navigate through a list of movies and simply pressing play. However, selecting a DVD off the shelf and inserting it into my DVD player is not really anymore effort.

SDTV 's will last for a long long time. They aren't sold, but the number of households that have them in the U.S. is enormous. I have 1 hdtv and 2 sdtvs. I would buy an additional AppleTV if I could connect it to SDTV. I would also buy one for my parents if it supported sdtv.

Apple does nothing to push these.
They are fine for what they do but the limitations of what they do, they are pretty much only a simple way to connect your iTunes content to a televsion.
No DVR, DVD, easy way to get DVDs copied onto it.


What "streaming" does it do?

YES,
YES,
YES

If you want to know - look for Airport Network Design PDF under the Apple Support site.

the Apple TV still does not even let you stream from your iTunes purchased library... you still have to select what content you want on each Apple TV in the house from the computer. I would like to see "on-demand" technology from a home iTunes server... how hard can this really be???

Yes to all of the above
RTFM

I think you'd be surprised. I think a fair number of people are already doing it with iPods, and I think we'll see it skyrocket once the tablet ships.

Oh, and forgot to mention before, I'd totally buy a decent TV streaming box to use with my current SDTV. No plans to replace it before it dies, even if that's years from now.


Is that right?

Disabling SSID broadcasts is like dummy-locking your tool shed, it seems to be more secure but won't deter the guy who you are trying to keep out in the first place. Anyone with half a clue would be able to pick out your SSID from the airwaves using freely available software. Likewise, anyone can spoof a MAC address (most routers even have this built-in to fool early attempts by ISPs to needlessly sell additional IP addresses) . If the appearance of these type of "security features" keeps someone from encrypting their router traffic with WPA2, then it's actually counterproductive to securing their home or small business networks.

I think the best feature in the newer AEB is the guest network, which segregates a publicly available network (depending on configuration) from the secured, internal network. OBTW, configuration of this is ridiculously easy using the built-in Airport software. Your mother-in-law could configure it without your help.

No.

Routers are complex, you have to know what your doing beforehand or else have issues later on.

Airport or Apple can't simplify the process, so it's no use paying more if it doesn't deliver.

This has not been my experience
The software is easy to use and has not missed a beat and the Software updates have worked flawlessly. I suppose this just goes to the old " your mileage may vary " adage.

Apple just doesn't get it with this product. The reason is that they are used to telling consumers what they want but in the case of this product, that is not going to work.

Consumers are telling Apple they want a DVR and TV tuner and web access. Apple has not listened, therefore the product will be nothing but a niche.

As long as I get to view programs on Hulu.com, I'm not going to pay .99 per episode.

Airports would sell better if they included just a single LAN port. Not every computer has wireless. The Mac Pro, for example and a lot of other desktops, especially older ones.

The Apple Airport Extreme router is not suitable to the UK market at all.

The majority of all broadband UK residents have PPPoA ADSL. The UK market is completely dominated by Wireless Modem/Router boxes. Every manufacturer makes them (with the exception of Apple) and it is hard to buy a stand-alone modem - or stand alone router.

To make use of the Apple router - consumers need to find a modem - which can do PPPoA to PPPoE conversion. There is only one such product that I know of (The Draytek Vigor 120) and that costs as much as a standalone modem/router.

Whoever called this a fanboy product is right.

(of course, I have one)

C.

that's all true but the simplest part of security is to reduce the attack surface area and make it as hard as possible

most of the big security headaches of the last few years have been because people don't follow the simple rules and instead believe the high tech ones will keep them safe. i even go as far as limiting the number of DHCP addresses my router will assign to the number of devices in my home

it's not even about the hacker in the street, you can have a kiddie porn surfing neighbor or someone may decide to share their music/movie collection via your wifi and invite a RIAA lawsuit. keeping your wifi to yourself may prevent legal headaches

Apple TV is a bit long on needing a vibrant upgrade. in my belief it needs

1- Larger hard drive 500gb+ option, also ability to add extra storage externally via USB, Firewire or ESata.
2- upgrade 1080p programming to hdtv
3- Open up the Apple TV - allow third party programs and developers, allow Netflix, Amazon, Blockbuster, Vudu and others to stream/download content to the device.

4- Apple TV app store- have it be able to be used for alot more. let developers create games, apps and so much more for

5- Videoconferencing - add ability for people to add a cam, hell apple could make a cam. so people can do video calls not just on their computer. but allow it to be used not only with ichat/aol chats, ie Skype app to use it. and who knows. other corporate ways. let Cisco create a app to use on it.
6- Blu-Ray - it is long overdue for apple to support Blu-Ray properly. to be a proper computer company it can't block technology which "competes" with itunes. Mac OS X must be open, as should all of Apple's products. sad to see things end up being more closed and well restricted to what Apple approves only.

7- Bluetooth - have the ability to add alot of extra add on's via this great tech. from headsets, to keyboards and gaming controllers
8- USB port fully functional - if you can add a camera, and external mic and more... why stop there... allow companies to add all sorts of extra devices and be able to build out a properly functional media center / computer apple tv.
9- full internet capability - yes, all my thoughts about making Apple tv capable require full internet capabilities and the ability for it to do oh so much more.

I would be alot happier if i could use my apple tv as a place for all the blu-Ray digital copies i have or maybe even a place to store movies i buy from apple itunes movie store. but do NOT want to keep on my laptop because it would take up too much room in my laptop. or even desktop.

Anyway, it would be awesome to really make more of this device as a proper home media center and computing entertainment center.

Totally forgot there was a router share!

i agree on opening up the device for full internet abiliy.

but Hulu... won't be free for too much longer.

I definietly agree, those are all very good ideas. I'd add to that the ability to read email and use a web browser. The easiest & quickest way to do all that would be to just add screen sharing back to your mac.
But most of all it needs a DVR function or it is a dead end product!

That's true, but depending solely upon Time Machine you have more points of potential failure from getting back to a working machine right away.

Dead boot drive, dead Superdrive or dead OS X install disk or necessary drivers for video cards (MacPro) that are not on the OS X install disk, so the machine won't boot a screen without reinstalling the factory equipment.



Did people forget to "Save As" all of a sudden?


I agree it's better than nothing and for most, a waste of a perfectly good hard drive when one can't boot from it.

ATV is frustrating. More than anything it needs external storage and the ability to stream from websites and/or Netflix/Hulu.

I gave up a few months ago on mine and bought a Mac Mini. Much more expensive, but 100 times more versatile... now if only the Mini had HDMI Audio out... quite honestly it's almost as though Apple is deliberately trying to stop you from using their products as media centers.

I agree that Apple TV is definitely a niche product and the AirPort routers have made limited penetration into the router market. However, as someone in that niche, I must say that I am quite happy with my Apple TV and the performance of my AirPort Extreme router. I want more from the Apple TV, though; I don't think that it's anywhere close to reaching its potential. I really don't think that Apple is done with developing Apple TV. I can't imagine Apple not wanting a privileged position in living rooms and basements. I think that the potential revenue is considerable and Apple is well placed to exploit it, before other companies grab brand loyalty.

I really don't think that DVR functionality is likely, because of its likely impact on Apple's business model around iTunes. However, I can imagine new Apple TVs with 1 or 2 TB hard drives, more powerful processors, an improved UI, and the ability to function as a home media center for all types of media. Another future selling point would be even better integration with all of the other products in the Apple "ecosystem", including any future tablet device. Apple products are never cheap, so these changes will not make Apple TV a ubiquitous part of households, but it could mean that the niche will increase considerably.

I believe HDMI requires a license and adherence to certain requirements for HDCP as the machines hooked up with HDMI talk to and validate each other and their compliance.

The closed system is clearly designed to keep HDMI content OFF computers so the content can't easily be copied.

I wouldn't call the the movie rentals exactly useful. They are very expensive for a 24hr rental.

The lack of format support is normally why I don't go for these type of Apple products. The WD TV Live box is much better value IMO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzcvQqP0buk&feature=fvw

It supports a lot of formats and even streams movies over a network. The remote is compact and the UI is very nice. Simply pick up a 500GB 2.5" bus-powered drive and it's a cheap way to have instant access to all your media.

If the ATV did have a motion wand so you could use Safari and supported 3rd party codecs and bumped up the size to 500GB, it would be good value at the price its at. But it has none of those things.

As frustrating as it is, the only way (IMO) to get a netflix-like experience on the ATV would be for the iTunes store to compete directly and have a subscription service for the ATV only. Netflix and Amazon, Hulu and others, are direct competitors and Apple would probably not allow them to happen. It's probably why they didn't already put a web browser in the ATV OS already.

Why would you buy or rent movies from iTunes if the ATV has a full web browser so you could go to Netflix, amazon, or hulu and watch a movie or TV show for free? It is frustrating, but Apple kind of shot themselves in the foot here. you can't have a web-browser if you're trying to get people to buy into the iTunes store platform...so they really trapped themselves here.

I would love to see the iPHone OS on the ATV but it's probably not going to happen, unless they have a solution to prevent thier customer base from just using the OS to go to Hulu. Sucks right?

the title for the article was one of the more non-sequiter I've seen in a looooong time. Come on guys. You can do better.

Apple's main reason for flat Airport sales is lack of followthrough. I've converted 3 of my Customers to the new Dual Band Airport Extremes because of the dual band capablity, the ability to manage via my MobileMe account, and primarily the guest network feature. Well the guest network is the biggest disappointment. The big use for my customers was to have a guest network visitors could access while visiting without being able to see the personal net and it's associated hardware, while at the pool or patio or in the gym in the case of a local church. Guess what the guest net is not extendable only your primary personal network. Suggestions were made when this was first discovered just after introduction and the Airport Extreme has received two firmware updates but with no changes to guest networking. So if Apple wants to increase share it must do as with all it successful products keep making improvements and enhancements ie iPhone, iMac, and MacBooks. So the fault lies clearly with Apple.

The Mac Mini solution makes a lot of sense too, especially if they could make a reduced price version as a media center.
It still needs a DVR, but it seems like that could be done by just adding another application to iLife.

I'm not too worried about the HDMI issues. That is an annoying, dead-end technology that should never have been brought to market and will hopefully disappear soon. FW3200 would have been a fine solution (recall that the HDTV standard was originally supposed to use FW as the main connection technology until the Hollyweird creeps objected because it is too consumer friendly).
That window may have passed, but Light Peak looks very promising on the horizon. Infinitely superior to HDMI.

I agree, it's more complicated because of Airport Software and updates. Also it's not easy to simplify because everyone's network is different.

But one thing Apple should do is make a default hardened set up.


There isn't much ease of use with Airport, to properly set up a router you got to know what your doing anyway, so you can buy the less expensive ones.


Exactly, because most new Apple users are network illiterate or get the internet as a afterthought. If the PC guy installs it, they have a choice of vendors and prices. Products are available locally and Apple's prices are high.

This does not make much sense though, as the Apple TV does have component outputs (which are analog and provide full resolution). So, it is actually even easier to copy from the Apple TV than from any current Mac (as the Mini DisplayPort output does no longer support composite/S-Video signals).

Allowing HDMI video without audio is not explained by HDCP licensing issues - the signal is HDCP compliant (e.g.: you can use an external BD player and a BD playback software under Windows and it does work on every current Mac), so they could also add audio. Even DisplayPort is fully capable of supporting 8 simultaneous digital audio signals, but Apple does not use it and there is really no valid explanation for it.

I see quite a few people here saying that adding a DVR to AppleTV will cause sales to sky rocket. If that were true, EVERYONE would have TiVo and sadly, not a lot more people do. It is easily the best DVR out there. I don't work for TiVo but have two units at home and access friends and relatives that love Microsoft (I live in the Seattle area) and won't buy Apple stuff (though it isn't beneath them to have me fix their videos for them).

Too many cable boxes come with (low end) DVRs that are "good enough" for people. That with cable on-demand and NetFlix and people just don't see spending money for TiVo or what I would prefer, AppleTV/TiVo combined into one box. That isn't going to happen but that would be the start of heaven.

As for DVD players. For me these are like record players. As soon as people could load music from CDs onto computers and then onto iPods they did. Apple should be following this idea with AppleTV where you can easily import all of your DVDs into iTunes on your computer and have it play on the TV.

The closest I can get to this so far is my Mac Mini with Hardbrake and Front Row. And this is actually what I do. AppleTV is a HUGE step backwards from a Mac Mini except that you can't download a lot of HD movies from iTunes. Quite a few you Have to have an ATV to do this. And right now it is way too expensive to buy an external BlueRay drive and connect it to a Mac. Assuming one is available.

Optical audio - My sound system for my TV (3rd party separate sound system) only has one port for optical audio. So how does Apple and other companies expect me to get full 5.1 Surround Sound when I can only connect one device at a time? Right now no device does everything I want which means multiple devices are required and we are back to stupidly having to manually switch things around. I'm SOOOOO tired of this.

What would I like? A Mac Mini type device with TiVo (not some lame low end DVR) with connections for cable/satellite and slot loading DVD/BlueRay drive that sucks in movies just like songs are sucked into iTunes. I want to be able to pick movies from a menu just like I pick songs. Right now iTunes doesn't do this (suck in movies and no BlueRay) and FrontRow is stripped down AppleTV and AppleTV doesn't have slot load and and a PS3 (no M$ products in my house and they suck anyway) has no iTunes and won't suck in movies onto it's hard hard drive.

Note that TiVo does have Netflix and Amazon and so forth where you can buy stuff from them. I haven't yet though.

Just give me more than 3 usable ports in the back. One of the 4 is used to plug in the cable modem's signal, only leaving me three to mess with. At least they are covered by any apple protection plan you have that is tied to a computer.

Really depends on where you are... Over here they are identically priced to video-on-demand offers by the cable company (which you have to watch immediately in one go and can't even pause). Going to the local video shop costs me more money for gas and parking fees than an iTunes rental and I can't even be sure the movie I want is available. The whole process of going there, parking, renting, getting back is at least one hour. It is just more convenient to click "rent" on the Apple TV - I can watch any 720p movie within less than two minutes.

Actually, you won't be done with it, you will just be starting. Handbrake is very time consuming, takes up lots of space after a while and the picture quality is not that good. The picture on my upscaled DVD player is much better. AppleTV does pictures well so that is what I mostly use mine for.

You are out of date on HandBrake. I can see now loss of picture quality since the newest version of HandBrake.

As for disk space. Duh. But that disk space is going to be taken no matter which way you get the movie onto your hard drive (or the AppleTV hard drive). Movies take space. We accept that.

No. It's incorrect.

Different price points for different needs/features.

Why not allow it to stream directly from your Apple home server? I have over 500gb of iTunes purchased movies and tv shows on our Apple home server. I hate having to select the movies and tv shows I want on each Apple TV in the house. Worst part is I have to go to the Server to make these selections.

Seems like a basic feature that is missing.