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Apple refuses to return repaired iPhone to owner - Page 3

post #81 of 189
From the original story...
Quote:
"And really, what would a police report do for an iPhone that was stolen on a NYC subway a week before Christmas?"(

What good would it do?
It would allow you to get your iPhone back.
It would allow you to file on our insurance.
The police could contact you if they recovered it.
The police could contact you if they arrested someone wtih your iPhone and you could go in for a line-up.
post #82 of 189
Nevertheless, the thief should have been identified in the process. They should have been able to say We can't legally NOT do the replacement, officer, but we'll be happy to tell you when the guy is coming in to pick it up.
post #83 of 189
This is from the consumerist after all. They aren't exactly known for following up on stories or checking sources.

Of course this is not Apple's fault. That lady is stupid for not reporting it stolen as several other people have mentioned here. Even now, she should go to the police and file a report at at least try to subpoena Apple to give her the address of where it is being shipped.

But either way, this is typical Consumerist fanning the flames of hate for a company that is only peripherally involved in the situation being reported on.

The day the Consumerist actually performs investigative journalism, interviews both parties and does research is the day we should take them seriously. Until then, they're just noise makers.
post #84 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

I am not a lawyer, but one has to assume that if she called the police, and they dedicated manpower to do a search, there is a report for that somewhere, maybe not a serial number, but certinly at least a list, something like "items stolen, 1 handbag, content of bag: wallet containing x credit/debit cards, y ID cards, and $z in cash, wireless phone, makeup, etc" or perhaps just "item reported stolen stolen: wireless phone" Or perhaps there is a 911 tape that would suffice, if she mentioned the stolen items in the call it should appear in a police report as the reason for dispatch.

Apple has evidence in the form of original sales docs that it belongs to the victim...this should be an open and shut case...

Apple is not a court of law and is in no position to determine ownership. No company would be so foolish as to believe it had the resources or the authority to determine ownership. There are tens of millions of iPhones out there, tens of thousands must be lost or stolen, and a highly litigious society waiting to take Apple to court for attempting to determine proper ownership.

Seriously - do a lot of people believe private companies have the authority to rule on ownership cases? Why would any company put themselves in that position?
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post #85 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by caljomac View Post

Thats just rediculous. Apple should give it back to the owner, after providing recipts or something

Yes - But WHO is the real owner? Maybe they should keep it until the 2 parties iron it out?

If they were to give it back, would any EBay or Criagslist sale be safe?
post #86 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I see this as a failure of the NYC police department. If they were called to the scene of a crime they should be their job to file report.

NO! The victim of the crimes has to file a report. Especially if police do not physically go to a scene. Do YOU want to pay for the police to fill out paperwork every time some one calls in? Don't you think that the victim needs to at least sign it?

Most people know - if you want any hope of retrieving your stolen goods - then you need to file a report. Period.
post #87 of 189
I'm the Alisa of this story. I would like to make it clear that I DO HAVE A POLICE REPORT. -- Shortly after I sent Consumerist my email, i realized that I was wrong in assuming that it would be obvious that i filed a police report once the police told me they couldn't do anything since i didn't have one. For what ever reason consumerist didn't edit that post to state this information. So even with a police report Apple still refuses to do anything. I am now working with a lawyer to see what my options are legally.

Thanks
post #88 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

he lives in the United States?

Maybe I am wrong, but since I went through passport control when leaving the US and entering Canada, I just assumed Canada wasn't part of the US.
post #89 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileMe View Post

Your denial of the FACT would be classified as Sigmund Freuds "Denial of Awareness" if in any other forum.


.......


Good Job Q610

You got denial from that question? it was a simple question, if he doesn't live in the US, why provide links for the US. They aren't providing his service
post #90 of 189
After reading this story, I think it's pretty clear why Apple did what they did. In fact, I'm not surprised at all.

Apple is in my eyes a perfect example of why having the right corporate structure in place is everything. They are the most organized company I see around these days, and openly admit that their #1 priority is sales & new customers. With that said, why would they waste resources or reputation with a situation like this? The fact is that they're not responsible for your phone's whereabouts and for all they know, she could have been trying to hijack the phone from someone else. Okay, so she had the police call, yada yada, but I actually see it from their shoes & understand why they prefer not to get involved with such a situation. I actually think that from a corporate standpoint, they did the smartest thing that they could have done.

Apple even lets MobileMe users track their phone's location, remotely wipe it & lock it. Who's fault is it that she chose not to subscribe to that service?

With 11.3 million iPhones shipped within the last QUARTER, how can you expect them to help 1 person get an iPhone back from a thief? Fact is, it's the local authorities responsibility. Now whether NYPD would give a %$^@ or not is a totally different story. If they got it back, I think some detective's kid would get an iPhone as a belated Christmas present over her getting it back.

In summary, Apple played by the book on this one & you can't blame a company for doing that, . . . ever.
post #91 of 189
-Removed
post #92 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You got denial from that question? it was a simple question, if he doesn't live in the US, why provide links for the US. They aren't providing his service

awesome trolling. Why not provide them from the US, they are probably easier to come by. Do you have an actual point to make from all this?
post #93 of 189
Get an Android phone and move on. Do not know why people are messing with Iphones anymore anyways. Android phones have come a long way and you do not have to mess with AT&T just to get a good deal on the phone.

Thanks..
post #94 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

awesome trolling. Why not provide them from the US, they are probably easier to come by. Do you have an actual point to make from all this?

Because 50% of Apples customers are not in the US. That is a good enough reason, plus the original poster doesn't live in the US, so US based surveys are useless as they don't reflect the service levels of Apple in their country, or mine for that matter. There are two points, do you want some more as well?
post #95 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Because 50% of Apples customers are not in the US. That is a good enough reason, plus the original poster doesn't live in the US, so US based surveys are useless as they don't reflect the service levels of Apple in their country, or mine for that matter. There are two points, do you want some more as well?

Here is what get's me thinking, you have not asked a question. You accuse him of being a fanboy, and then find some mystery fault with his response, as if it was his responsibility to provide you with global customer service stats. He answered your question in a reasonable way, and if you need any further evidence, google is there for you.
post #96 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcphoto View Post

Can I prove ownership with a receipt for the phone? Perhaps a series of bills stating my name, address, phone listed on plan from my AT&T online account or the last bill from the month that it was stolen? Can the Police write a report from a that happened days, weeks or months ago? I would camp out at the store that the phone was left at and produce the documents and wait for the criminal to arrive. Apple and AT&T should grow some stones and do the right thing. If you can produce those documents I would challenge the criminals claim of ownership.

Apple doesn't honor a bill of sale when it comes to a warranty. They honor the serial number, which indicates the phone manufacture date. Owner is irrelevant for warranty claims. It is not Apple's place to retrieve stolen property, nor are they authorized to do so. The police should be the ones 'camped out' to retrieve it, and somehow I don't think it will be worth their time to do so for a stolen phone.
  • This girl didn't file a report.
  • The 'cop' on the phone has no way to prove they are such.
  • Apple has no way to verify the owner of the phone.
  • AT&T's contract is based on the SIM, not the phone.

How exactly would you want Apple to decide who was the rightful owner? What if the 'thief' was this woman's ex-boyfriend and she was out for a little revenge? Apple is not part of the judicial branch, they are a company honoring a warranty as required by law. They have no business deciding legal ownership due to lack of action on this woman's part. That is for the legal system to handle.
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post #97 of 189
I suspect Apple will reconsider their policy on this.
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post #98 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Because 50% of Apples customers are not in the US. That is a good enough reason, plus the original poster doesn't live in the US, so US based surveys are useless as they don't reflect the service levels of Apple in their country, or mine for that matter. There are two points, do you want some more as well?

You are a piece of work, aren't you?
These comments are relative to the article. If you say that Apple has bad customer service referring to this particular theft which happened in the US, it is normal that you get a response with US numbers (given that the theft happened in New York).
post #99 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

I imagine the phone was stolen then sold on eBay. If they were to give the phone back to her they would be taking it away from the new owner (who is not the thief). It is a tricky situation. I'm not sure what the legal precedent is on this. If they properly escalated the issue with Apple, my guess is that the law does not work in the victims favor.

The legal precedent on receiving stolen goods? Yeah... they should really come up with some laws to cover that one....
post #100 of 189
This is really a small mess, but I don't see where is Apple's fault. They are not going to replace the police. Even if she does have a proof of ownership, she must show it to the police and it is only the police who can ask of Apple to take actions.

But anyway the story seems a bit unbelievable. Police dispatched to search for an iphone, calling Apple? Come on.
post #101 of 189
It's not Apple's job to recover stolen property. At best, they can refuse service under certain circumstances, but they won't play cops & robbers. Apple really has nothing to do with this. She's asking Apple to perform a legal function, which it simply cannot do.

Why is the individual relying on Apple to recover her phone when it's a matter for the police?

There is no policy to reconsider here. Apple is not the police.
post #102 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

The legal precedent on receiving stolen goods? Yeah... they should really come up with some laws to cover that one....

There are laws and they are quite clear. If you have the receipt you own it.
Example: you buy used stuff from someone who stole it from the original buyer. The original buyer shows proof of purchase so the police seizes the object and returns it to him. Only thing they can't do is sue you (unless they have proof that you knew you were buying a stolen good). Basically it is up to you to be sure about what you are buying and to ask for a proof of purchase.
This is how it stands. From there of course you can defend yourself in court etc.
post #103 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Nevertheless, the thief should have been identified in the process. They should have been able to say We can't legally NOT do the replacement, officer, but we'll be happy to tell you when the guy is coming in to pick it up.

Right. I can't see where THAT course of action could get Apple sued.
post #104 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

And with comments like that people wonder why Apple has trouble gaining a more international footing.

The user that posted was a non US person, for him to make such a comment it is fair to get a non US response.

I didn't understand your original post and don't understand this one. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Or at a minimum, you're not directly stating what's on your mind.
post #105 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

...What I really think this story is a model of is the crap journalism we have so much of in the modern world. There's no legwork. The writer talked to the girl. Maybe to the cop. Did he talk to Apple? AT&T? In the old days, this would be thrown back by a city editor until the reporter dug out enough details to be a story. But this story is simply furthering the agenda of the woman, and of the various Apple bashers that the tech press is becoming thick with. It's a "good" story, but it's not necessarily "true." That is, you don't need many details. You just ignite a slugfest between people who love Apple and defend it and those who hate Apple, for whom this story confirms what they think.

In small, that's what's happening to our larger journalism, too. It's so much easier to assess truth or falsity if it confirms your prejudices.

Well said. No offense to AI, because it happens on all the forums, but there's seldom evidence anyone tries to call a source for information on these stories. And that's fundamental.

--retired journalist
post #106 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Because 50% of Apples customers are not in the US. That is a good enough reason, plus the original poster doesn't live in the US, so US based surveys are useless as they don't reflect the service levels of Apple in their country, or mine for that matter. There are two points, do you want some more as well?

As they say in court, "Asked and answered." That is, you asked specifically and he answered specifically.

First point, our service is done in the US and Canada. We have immediate access to all service call centres in for example, Texas and Ontario. Our Genius Bars are unsurpassed by any standards.

Secondly, what evidence do you have that our service is any different than that of our American cousins?

Thirdly, What country do you mole in that you have un-refutable evidence of service levels to the contrary?

Fourthly, yes and no. I would like to hear anything that makes any sense of your meanderings. Guess which one it is.
post #107 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

The legal precedent on receiving stolen goods? Yeah... they should really come up with some laws to cover that one....

According to the original story, there are no "stolen goods" since a report was not filed.
File an actual report and let the police contact Apple.
post #108 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I suspect Apple will reconsider their policy on this.

I doubt very much they will change anything.
post #109 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atkins View Post

There are laws and they are quite clear. If you have the receipt you own it.

Okay.
With two people holding out that they own it, it would take a court to decide who owns it, not Apple/ATT.
But since it was not even important enough to file a report, why is this even a story?
post #110 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisax View Post

I'm the Alisa of this story. I would like to make it clear that I DO HAVE A POLICE REPORT. -- Shortly after I sent Consumerist my email, i realized that I was wrong in assuming that it would be obvious that i filed a police report once the police told me they couldn't do anything since i didn't have one. For what ever reason consumerist didn't edit that post to state this information. So even with a police report Apple still refuses to do anything. I am now working with a lawyer to see what my options are legally.

Thanks

That's hilarious, given that you could buy about 4 new iPhones for the price of 1 hr with the lawyer.
post #111 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Okay.
With two people holding out that they own it, it would take a court to decide who owns it, not Apple/ATT.
But since it was not even important enough to file a report, why is this even a story?

Agree with you completely.

It's a story that was assumed to get high hits because:

1) It's Apple

2) Apple has an excellent reputation when it comes to customer service, therefore stories to the contrary are believed to cause a greater sensation.

It seems the story got the hits, but it's a false alarm. I find very often these days that what would appear to be negative news about Apple, really isn't, or has some element(s) in it that really require the reader to stretch the limits of reason.


Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

That's hilarious, given that you could buy about 4 new iPhones for the price of 1 hr with the lawyer.

Dollars-to-donuts says it's not her. LOL, someone registered an account to help the losing side a little. Lame. Wouldn't be a first on AI, either.
post #112 of 189
Apple should decide on the best policy to follow in this case. And they did.

It is not our place to question their decisions. They always know a lot more than we do.
post #113 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's not Apple's job to recover stolen property. At best, they can refuse service under certain circumstances, but they won't play cops & robbers. Apple really has nothing to do with this. She's asking Apple to perform a legal function, which it simply cannot do.

Why is the individual relying on Apple to recover her phone when it's a matter for the police?

There is no policy to reconsider here. Apple is not the police.

Only rational, logical post on this board. And yet I just can't wait to read the next 100 blathering blabs about this thing that nobody should even give a flying fk about.
post #114 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Agree with you completely.

It's a story that was assumed to get high hits because:

1) It's Apple

2) Apple has an excellent reputation when it comes to customer service, therefore stories to the contrary are believed to cause a greater sensation.

It seems the story got the hits, but it's a false alarm. I find very often these days that what would appear to be negative news about Apple, really isn't, or has some element(s) in it that really require the reader to stretch the limits of reason.




Dollars-to-donuts says it's not her. LOL, someone registered an account to help the losing side a little. Lame. Wouldn't be a first on AI, either.

Yeah, I sort of figured as well. But wouldn't surprise me for someone to take that action. Hell, they went through the trouble of making it a "news" story; and look what's resulted.
Sheesh!
post #115 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisax View Post

I'm the Alisa of this story. I would like to make it clear that I DO HAVE A POLICE REPORT. -- Shortly after I sent Consumerist my email, i realized that I was wrong in assuming that it would be obvious that i filed a police report once the police told me they couldn't do anything since i didn't have one. For what ever reason consumerist didn't edit that post to state this information. So even with a police report Apple still refuses to do anything. I am now working with a lawyer to see what my options are legally.

Thanks

I was similarly frustrated when it was determined that someone in the San Francisco area with suspicious activity on their AT&T account was using my stolen iPhone. I just wanted them to deactivate his/her service without expectation of getting the iPhone back. Most things one might lose are not traceable and not retrievable. AT&T and Apple don't offer tracing of stolen or loss items and they adhere to laws regarding privacy. An AT&T retail employee told me that he couldn't contact the person he found on the store computer using his iPhone. I turned it into an opportunity to get a 3GS. I avoided some of that nasty $200 cancellation fee by adding a line, swapping my new number with the old and paying an extra $10 for a while.
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post #116 of 189
lol at the people's court comment.

Ya, it was probably a gift to her old boyfriend, when they broke up it is now stolen

She won't file a stolen article report because she knows filing a false report might lead to jail time.
post #117 of 189
Not sure why you are complaining to Apple? Its really simple. If you lose something or get it stolen, you contact the police and get a crime reference number for your police report. You use this number to claim on your insurance and they deliver you another phone.

Now stop being a retard and learn your lesson.
post #118 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

According to the original story, there are no "stolen goods" since a report was not filed.
File an actual report and let the police contact Apple.

It's a fascinating subject indeed. I confess I was always under the impression if the police came across stolen goods they tried to return it to the rightful owners reported or not. What if you didn't even know you'd been robbed? "Excuse me sir we recovered the contents of your safe but as you didn't report it we are not returning the diamonds!"
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post #119 of 189
Possession is nine tenths of the law therefore the thief is in possession therefore he/she owns it...


Now if it is in fact stolen and she can prove its stolen then a Detective or Police Officer has to go down to the Apple Store and slame his badge down and take ownership...

Just like pawn shops if they buy stolen property and cop comes in they will take the item and the pawn shop will be out the item and the money they paid..

But a Police officer calling in isn't going to work as you gotta look at it in Apple point of view the lady could have had her brother calling in pretending to be a police officer..... So Officer will actually need to go in.......
post #120 of 189
Customer calls Apple to ask for phone back? Apple says not without "police report" as evidence it was stolen.

Why didn't the original owner at this point just file a police report and give it to apple? Then apple would be legally obligated to oblige right? I think you have like 6 months to file a police report with a theft.. Especially if she just claimed she JUST found out it was stolen..

Kinda like if someone broke into you house while you were in Europe for a few months and stole all your stuff.. you file the police report 6 months later when you get back and that would be totally legal...
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