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Chrome edges out Safari, iPhone OS continues growth in December - report

post #1 of 161
Thread Starter 
Apple ends the year with solid iPhone OS growth, a slowing - but stable Mac OS X market share, and its Safari web browser being edged out by Google's Chrome.

In its final report of 2009, web metrics firm Net Applications found that the iPhone OS has continued to gain in market share, with 0.43 percent of the total OS market, a 20 percent increase over November's numbers. This falls in line with expected growth in iPhone sales over last quarter's 7.4 million units. Apple is believed to have shipped up to 11.3 million units this quarter, a number that represents a more than 50 percent increase over the previous quarter. Other analysts place this number at a more conservative 8.8 million units sold.

Mac OS X has plateaued as of December with a 5.11 percent market share, a increase of around 8.5 percent from its January 2009 numbers, but nearly identical to November's amount. These numbers also fall in line with estimates, with Apple projected to sell 2.85 million Macs this quarter, compared to 3.05 million last quarter.

Google's new Chrome browser has passed Apple's Safari in December with a 4.63 percent market share compared to Safari's 4.46. This places Chrome in third-place behind number-two Firefox with around 25 percent and first-place Internet Explorer at more than 60 percent.

A beta version of Chrome for Mac was released early in December, more than a year after the debut of the Windows version. In speed tests, Safari was found to be slightly faster than Chrome, and twice as fast as Firefox.

Overall, Apple is expected to have a "blowout" quarter due to its strength in all major categories of its business, and is expected to beat Wall Street estimates by a fair margin.
post #2 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Google's new Chrome browser has passed Apple's Safari in December with a 4.63 percent market share compared to Safari's 4.46. This places Chrome in third-place behind number-two Firefox with around 25 percent and first-place Internet Explorer at more than 60 percent. ...

I think Chrome browser share will continue to grow, but it won't be at Safari's expense. It offers nothing to the average Safari user but promises to replace Firefox completely once the plug-in mania gets started.

I would bet money that as Chrome usage rises, Firefox and MSIE use goes down. MSIE will likely stay stronger too because the reasons behind it's use have less to do with user preference than they do business. Those that are looking for simple and minimal though will likely stay with Safari.
post #3 of 161
"Overall, Apple is expected to have a "blowout" quarter due to its strength in all major categories of its business, and is expected to beat Wall Street estimates by a fair margin."

This doesn't even make sense. Expected by who? How can apple be expected to beat expectations? That doesn't even make logical sense. If you mean to say that some commentators believe that some other analysts projections are low, that's one thing (which is like saying nothing at all, because its just saying that not everybody agrees on apple). But its stated in this article as if the general consensus on wall street is that apple is expected to beat expectations, which is logically impossible.
post #4 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I think Chrome browser share will continue to grow, but it won't be at Safari's expense. It offers nothing to the average Safari user but promises to replace Firefox completely once the plug-in mania gets started.

I would bet money that as Chrome usage rises, Firefox and MSIE use goes down. MSIE will likely stay stronger too because the reasons behind it's use have less to do with user preference than they do business. Those that are looking for simple and minimal though will likely stay with Safari.

I think you're correct, but for the wrong reasons. Safari and IE are "default browsers" and people who use them generally use them because it's "just what their computer does". Not to say that Safari isn't a vastly superior browser to IE, but very few people decide to use safari in a positive sense. They just use it because that is the macs default web browser.

I've used both chrome and safari for the PC and mac and I like chrome better for both. Chrome is as simple as it needs to be and can now use add ons to the extent that you need them (unlike IE which has way too much going on and is too difficult to slim down). I like Safari, but I think Chrome offers everything that safari does and a little more.

However, Chrome's real competition is the "choice browser" firefox. People who use firefox use it because they don't like IE or, to a lesser extent, Safari and they actually go out and seek a different browser. Google will undoubtedly leverage the google name and the fact that chrome is probably the better browser into continually cutting into firefox's market share.

To me, that's why chrome's market share will cut into firefox and not really IE or Safari. There will always be a large number of people who are perfectly happy with their default browser and will never even consider other options, so IE and Safari will always have a built in market share (as long as things are structured as they are now).

Finally google will eventually have chrome OS as the default browser on some netbooks, which will also cut into default browser market share, but that's too far down the road to really have any idea of what percentage market share chrome OS and thus chrome browser as the default browser will have.
post #5 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRabon View Post

"Overall, Apple is expected to have a "blowout" quarter due to its strength in all major categories of its business, and is expected to beat Wall Street estimates by a fair margin."

This doesn't even make sense. Expected by who? How can apple be expected to beat expectations? That doesn't even make logical sense. If you mean to say that some commentators believe that some other analysts projections are low, that's one thing (which is like saying nothing at all, because its just saying that not everybody agrees on apple). But its stated in this article as if the general consensus on wall street is that apple is expected to beat expectations, which is logically impossible.

You don't read the WSJ much, huh? "Expectations" were "set" in the past. Analysts now feel that Apple will exceed those expectations. I don't see how that's "logically impossible."

For example, in Jan. 2009, my parents and I expected me to graduate college. As summer arrived, not only did I graduate, I got a full-time job. My parents and I agree that I exceeded our expectations.
post #6 of 161
I can't go onto YouTube without getting bet around the place by Chrome adverts. I like Google and all that but this is the first instance where I feel they are going a bit too far. Sort of abusing their power.

I wouldn't mind but I think Chrome is a great browser.
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post #7 of 161
I dont believe this for a second. I can't believe how naive people are if they believe all these surveys. The internet must have 100's of survey results everyday. Show me how you got these numbers, how big was your pool, did the same address use both Sarfari and Chome? Show me the proof.
post #8 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRabon View Post

I think you're correct, but for the wrong reasons. Safari and IE are "default browsers" and people who use them generally use them because it's "just what their computer does". Not to say that Safari isn't a vastly superior browser to IE, but very few people decide to use safari in a positive sense. They just use it because that is the macs default web browser....

I tend to disagree with this and I don't think there is any evidence to support the idea that most Safari users are just using it "by default."

Safari has a particular appeal to people who like the Apple's penchant for things to be as minimal and as tasteful as possible. This group is definitely a minority, but still quite large in terms of absolute numbers. It seems to me that there is an easily describe-able niche of people who use Safari on purpose, simply because it's the only one that offers this minimal approach.

Personally, I find most web browsers so hideously overdone, so ugly, and so jazzily laid out, that they are difficult to use. Firefox may be one of the best browsers in the world technically, but one look at it's ugly face and you just know that no real artist had a hand in it's creation and it's hard for a lot of us to get past that.
post #9 of 161
As long as WebKits share (Safari + Chrome + iPhone + Android + others) keeps rising Im happy
post #10 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliphord View Post

You don't read the WSJ much, huh? "Expectations" were "set" in the past. Analysts now feel that Apple will exceed those expectations. I don't see how that's "logically impossible."

For example, in Jan. 2009, my parents and I expected me to graduate college. As summer arrived, not only did I graduate, I got a full-time job. My parents and I agree that I exceeded our expectations.

Actually, I have a subscription to the WSJ, and FT for that matter, I have a masters in econ and I work for an investment company. The term expectations and estimations aren't tied to any fixed point. If they're saying that wall street has revised their expectations for Apple's 2010, that's totally different from whatever "apple is expected to beat estimations by a fair margin" is supposed to mean. If what you're saying is what the article implied, then they should state from what period the supposed "estimations" were made. Also, they should state who made the estimations.

Saying "apple is expected to beat wall street's estimations" by itself is meaningless at best and illogical at worst.

AI always tries to walk the line between legitimate industry source and a blog. Statements like the above are reasons why its not really a serious news source, just an aggregator of rumors.
post #11 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I tend to disagree with this and I don't think there is any evidence to support the idea that most Safari users are just using it "by default."

Safari has a particular appeal to people who like the Apple's penchant for things to be as minimal and as tasteful as possible. This group is definitely a minority, but still quite large in terms of absolute numbers. It seems to me that there is an easily describe-able niche of people who use Safari on purpose, simply because it's the only one that offers this minimal approach.

Personally, I find most web browsers so hideously overdone, so ugly, and so jazzily laid out, that they are difficult to use. Firefox may be one of the best browsers in the world technically, but one look at it's ugly face and you just know that no real artist had a hand in it's creation and it's hard for a lot of us to get past that.

Chrome, before you add on any extensions is just as minimalist as safari, if not more so.
post #12 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRabon View Post

Chrome, before you add on any extensions is just as minimalist as safari, if not more so.

Minimalist from a designers point of view perhaps, but it won't stay that way. It's open source, customisable, and people are going to want all their plug-ins. Before it's out for too long, people will be using Chrome as a browser with a plug-in to make it look more like FireFox.
post #13 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

As long as WebKits share (Safari + Chrome + iPhone + Android + others) keeps rising Im happy

Hopefully web site developers will see this and get a clue that there is more to the world than Internet Explorer. Personally I use Safari at work, but that is due more to the corporate environment locking onto IE 6 of all things. The rest of the world though is modern software.


Dave
post #14 of 161
I gotta say, I switched to Chrome and really like it. Safari over time for me has slowed down tremendously - booting takes longer, and even for simple pages I was getting the beach ball far more often than I'd like. After googling it seems like this is a common problem for a lot of safari users, though maybe not all.
post #15 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Minimalist from a designers point of view perhaps, but it won't stay that way. It's open source, customisable, and people are going to want all their plug-ins. Before it's out for too long, people will be using Chrome as a browser with a plug-in to make it look more like FireFox.

What's your point here? That choice is bad? What does "but it won't stay that way" even mean? Do you mean that somehow the browser has gained self-consciousness and will grow more complicated by itself? If not, then what's the problem? People who value the minimalism will use Chrome that way, without getting all the plugins, and that will work for them. People who get the plugins for Chrome that make it look like Firefox, as you say, do so because that's what they want. Everybody gets what they want, including the people who liked the minimalism. I don't get what your criticism of Chrome is.
post #16 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Minimalist from a designers point of view perhaps, but it won't stay that way. It's open source, customisable, and people are going to want all their plug-ins. Before it's out for too long, people will be using Chrome as a browser with a plug-in to make it look more like FireFox.

You are once again missing the point of why Firefox is so successful. You have a base browser that you "have the choice" of making it look and give it any feature that you want.

Chrome as a base browser gives you the same minimalist start. Customize it as you please.

It's the Choice you are not pleased with or used to given your postings. Apple tells you it's this way or make another choice. You seem to be incapable of choosing for yourself.

On a side note. FJRabon, very good postings. It's nice to come back from a great vacation and read someone with intelligence in this forum rather than the usual suspects.
post #17 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Personally, I find most web browsers so hideously overdone, so ugly, and so jazzily laid out, that they are difficult to use. Firefox may be one of the best browsers in the world technically, but one look at it's ugly face and you just know that no real artist had a hand in it's creation and it's hard for a lot of us to get past that.

Agreed 100%. All you really need is a back button, an address bar, a bookmarks menu and a site window to surf the web.

But nooooooo ... everything has to be jazzed up and over toolbar'd and over optioned and over featured to the point where the default install of IE8 looks like an IE6 install with a bunch of spyware toolbars tacked on.
post #18 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by sticknick View Post

Agreed 100%. All you really need is a back button, an address bar, a bookmarks menu and a site window to surf the web.

But nooooooo ... everything has to be jazzed up and over toolbar'd and over optioned and over featured to the point where the default install of IE8 looks like an IE6 install with a bunch of spyware toolbars tacked on.

Chrome is even more minimalist though. It's interface is pretty much exactly like safari, except the search bar and the address bar are the same unibar (which I absolutely love).

I guess safari is more "artsy" looking in the sense that you can tell Jonny Ive had some say so in what it looks like.
post #19 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRabon View Post

Actually, I have a subscription to the WSJ, and FT for that matter, I have a masters in econ and I work for an investment company. The term expectations and estimations aren't tied to any fixed point. If they're saying that wall street has revised their expectations for Apple's 2010, that's totally different from whatever "apple is expected to beat estimations by a fair margin" is supposed to mean. If what you're saying is what the article implied, then they should state from what period the supposed "estimations" were made. Also, they should state who made the estimations.

Saying "apple is expected to beat wall street's estimations" by itself is meaningless at best and illogical at worst.

AI always tries to walk the line between legitimate industry source and a blog. Statements like the above are reasons why its not really a serious news source, just an aggregator of rumors.

I took it to mean the Street thinks Apple will beat Apple's guidance. It never occurred to me to even care what these articles say about Apple and Wall Street and their collective intelligence, as the articles are never written to be an investment source. This is site is exactly what you surmised, an aggregator of rumors. Nothing more, nothing less.
post #20 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I think Chrome browser share will continue to grow, but it won't be at Safari's expense. It offers nothing to the average Safari user but promises to replace Firefox completely once the plug-in mania gets started.

I would bet money that as Chrome usage rises, Firefox and MSIE use goes down. MSIE will likely stay stronger too because the reasons behind it's use have less to do with user preference than they do business. Those that are looking for simple and minimal though will likely stay with Safari.

its not that safari usage will be affected but that os x will. unless apple comes out with some netbook competition then i believe that mid-late 2010 will be the year of falling os x market share. why pay 800 dollars for a tablet running iphone os?

unless apple makes some big changes they should prepare to lose to google....
post #21 of 161
Chrome deserves their market share because they have been putting more effort in improving their browser. Safari just fizzled after their previous major release.
post #22 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple ends the year with solid iPhone OS growth

I think that's Apples main focus, grow the iPhone, and it will in return create the Halo effect. The iPhone OS is still in its infancy but compared to others it's way more advanced, from developer to User.

Quote:
A slowing - but stable Mac OS X market share

Snow Leopard did it's job, though many people feel Apple rushed it, it's set us up for what's to come. I think Apple's market share from where they were just 2 years ago is great.

The Desktop Operating System as Whole will be dramatically changed in few years time anyway 3 years + or - .


Quote:
Its Safari web browser being edged out by Google's Chrome.

It's edge out by Googles Chrome in beta form!? Pretty impressive, from the perspective that by time Google says it's finished with Chrome being in beta (Which is scheduled for Dec of this year) Apple will have improved Safari dramatically that the two competing browsers will always end up out edging one another.

I've always felt the ultimate goal of the "browser wars" was to have a sufficient and capable browser for Windows users since IE<insert failed numerical # here> hasn't been good for anybody on that platform. Apple was kind enough to share safari (not to mention it makes business sense). Google has obviously wedge itself as a viable solution next to Mozilla (which should be more worried).... Apple will never allow a competitor to best them on it's own OS.
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post #23 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

I took it to mean the Street thinks Apple will beat Apple's guidance. It never occurred to me to even care what these articles say about Apple and Wall Street and their collective intelligence, as the articles are never written to be an investment source. This is site is exactly what you surmised, an aggregator of rumors. Nothing more, nothing less.

well that's nothing new, wall street said that apple would beat apple's projections when they made them. Apple always under-predicts their profits. That has less to do with apple having a "blowout year" in 2010 than apple always being extremely conservative with their projections for the next year.

To me, it was just kind of thrown on there at the end, was not necessary for the article's subject matter and I'm still not sure what the author meant by it. There are several different ways it could be interpreted that would make varying degrees of sense.
post #24 of 161
I downloaded the Beta the day after it was available. Tried it for 2 days & trashed it. It might be fine for PC but Safari & FireFox are just fine for y Macs thank you.
post #25 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenguy View Post

I downloaded the Beta the day after it was available. Tried it for 2 days & trashed it. It might be fine for PC but Safari & FireFox are just fine for y Macs thank you.

Considering your previous posting you seem to have changed your tune... Is thte Kool-Aid that good?

Quote:
"Update problem?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just completed the OS 10.5.7 & Safari 4 update. My Safari seems to have slowed considerably. Anyone else having problems?"


http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=98217
post #26 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I think Chrome browser share will continue to grow, but it won't be at Safari's expense. It offers nothing to the average Safari user but promises to replace Firefox completely once the plug-in mania gets started.

I would bet money that as Chrome usage rises, Firefox and MSIE use goes down. MSIE will likely stay stronger too because the reasons behind it's use have less to do with user preference than they do business. Those that are looking for simple and minimal though will likely stay with Safari.

If it's faster, which it is, then it offers everything. Only Apple diehards will stay with Safari once they try Chrome. It's a new dawn and a new day. It surely didn't take Chrome long - how old is it compared to Safari?
post #27 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenguy View Post

I downloaded the Beta the day after it was available. Tried it for 2 days & trashed it. It might be fine for PC but Safari & FireFox are just fine for y Macs thank you.

So your basis of comparison is a 2 day old product from several months ago?

The weird thing about this whole debate is I still haven't seen anybody tell me what safari has that chrome doesn't.

To me the only possible positive for safari over chrome is that the "inudstrial apple style" aesthetic might be more pleasing to some than chrome's slightly more cartoonish/windows-y aesthetic.

But as far as the interface goes, they're the same exact thing, except chrome has the unibar v. safari has a search bar and an address bar. And chrome is very slightly faster under most conditions.

However, for me the difference in speed was pretty negligible and the main difference was that I liked chrome's page managment better and I liked the unibar better than having two separate bars.
post #28 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I tend to disagree with this and I don't think there is any evidence to support the idea that most Safari users are just using it "by default."

Safari has a particular appeal to people who like the Apple's penchant for things to be as minimal and as tasteful as possible. This group is definitely a minority, but still quite large in terms of absolute numbers. It seems to me that there is an easily describe-able niche of people who use Safari on purpose, simply because it's the only one that offers this minimal approach.

Personally, I find most web browsers so hideously overdone, so ugly, and so jazzily laid out, that they are difficult to use. Firefox may be one of the best browsers in the world technically, but one look at it's ugly face and you just know that no real artist had a hand in it's creation and it's hard for a lot of us to get past that.

That sums me up pretty well. I switched back to Safari (from Firefox) a few months ago because I prefer it. I haven't gotten around to trying Chrome yet. When I do, I'll use it as my default browser for a week or two, then decide which to use.
post #29 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRabon View Post

The weird thing about this whole debate is I still haven't seen anybody tell me what safari has that chrome doesn't.

There a lots of reasons and they're all over the threads and reviews of Chrome For Mac.

I'll leave Safari's better speed on JS tests out of it. One, because the speeds are so close that it's pointless to make a choice on that metric. Two, it's still 32-bit on OS X and I have feeling it will beat Safari once it gets full 64-bit since V8 has been shown to best Nitro on Windows.

Some of the benefits I found in Safari with my last Chrome test are: full OS integration which is too many things to list individually (which is why I prefer IE on Windows), slightly thinner windowing even though the tabs are on bottom give me more webpage space, Status Bar, Click To Flash as an option, AutoFill (not just usernames and passwords) and, probably most talked about, bookmark editing.
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post #30 of 161
My 2¢ is this:


1: Have you seen Safari on Windows?

Or I should rather say, fisher price colored Windows?

2: Windows users are looking for better security, privacy and customization than IE. Safari doesn't offer that. Crome doesn't offer that, it might, but I doubt it.

3: I don't think Google will allow Ad Block, Ghostery (trackers), NoScript (script firewall) and BetterPrivacy (flash cookies killer) on their Chrome browser. Especially since Google goes out of it's way to know everything on the internet.
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post #31 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There a lots of reasons and they're all over the threads and reviews of Chrome For Mac.

... and, probably most talked about, bookmark editing.

Bookmark editing? I just edited my bookmarks for Chromium yesterday. It was really easy:
emacs ~/Library/Application Support/Chromium/Default/Bookmarks.
post #32 of 161
I personally only use safari on my Mini because of the Magic Mouse. On my G5 I use Opera, I find the mouse gestures to be lovely and wish they'd implement it more in Safari. I would probably use Opera exclusively if it weren't for some sites not being compatible
post #33 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gucky View Post

Bookmark editing? I just edited my bookmarks for Chromium yesterday. It was really easy:
emacs ~/Library/Application Support/Chromium/Default/Bookmarks.

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post #34 of 161
(Never mind...)

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #35 of 161
The survey that supports this is really nothing more than an "opinion." It all depends on how extensive and representative the survey was. Other than the fact that Chrome and Safari lag IE by a large margin, there really is no certainty beyond that. To say that Chrome has surpassed Safari by a few measily percentage points is a joke. You'd have statisticians laughing. The difference is well within the margin of error even if you had hundreds or millions of samples. Things like this are not newsworthy at the moment.
post #36 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by FJRabon View Post

The weird thing about this whole debate is I still haven't seen anybody tell me what safari has that chrome doesn't.

I don't think there will continue to be much difference between Safari and Chrome. Competitors generally gravitate towards each other. The one area I don't like about Google is that it makes 99% of its revenue on advertising....that's a lot of tabs on you and me.
post #37 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

My 2¢ is this:


1: Have you seen Safari on Windows?

Or I should rather say, fisher price colored Windows?

I use Safari with Win7. What in the world are you referring to with "fisher price colored Windows?"
post #38 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

I use Safari with Win7. What in the world are you referring to with "fisher price colored Windows?"


This one.

XP looks like it belongs in a pre-school someplace.


Your not going to defend XP now are you?
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post #39 of 161
Chrome is OK but I like being able to sync my bookmarks via MobileMe
post #40 of 161
Safari 4.0 was much improved over the 3.x versions. Near the end of its beta phrase Apple decided to switch the placement of tabs. It looked pretty close how it went against normal Apple UI design and maybe the developers were tipping their hats to Google.

One annoyance in Safari 4.0 is having the plus sign "+" way to the right of the actually tabs instead of right next to the tabs. Most modern browsers make it easy to create a new tab without having to move your mouse across the entire screen. That's a UI design flaw of Safari.

Also, I still can't sort web sites in Safari like I can in other browsers.

What happened to the rumored feature of Safari implementing volume controls in the brower so web ads can be muffled? That would be a nice feature.

Chrome has gotten a lot of play especially since they are transforming it into an OS. It is a nice browser but I must say Safari and Firefox are my Mac browsers of choice. Chrome and Firefox on Windows 7.
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