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Hardware makers plan preemptive strike against Apple tablet at CES - Page 2

post #41 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie View Post

I love how people still take Microsoft's CGI doodles as proof of a potential product.

The Courier doesn't exist.

I know...
Can't count the times I've seen the tech 'press' refer to the "recently 'announced' MS Courier."
Classic MS FUD, and the press falls for it every time. all the way back to the Dr DOS assassination.
post #42 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by primedetailer View Post

There is going to be a lot of new, very nice looking tablets showing up on the market, but the biggest advantage that Apple has and everyone already knows about, is Itunes.

Not just iTunes. Apple has the whole end-to-end user experience vision thing. Lots of companies will come out with very nice tablets - many of them superior to whatever Apple releases, but they won't have the operating system, application development, application delivery, and user experience standards that Apple has and can enforce - plus content provider agreements. A few of them will have some nice software environments, but they won't have the brand strength that Apple has.

I don't think Microsoft will be able to get their act together to produce a "killer" tablet-tailored OS. They got burned good by Vista, but I don't see any evidence they have the laser focused vision that Steve Jobs provides to Apple's products. MS still sounds like it's a quagmire of competing VPs and divisions, etc. with everyone wanting to have an input and impact on the latest hot thing - tablets. That'll produce a muddy, bloated mess.

- Jasen.
post #43 of 166
Please don't tell Joe Wilcox that other companies are making tablets too. He might have a massive coronary.

Quote:
The world doesn't need an Apple tablet, or any other
http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/ar...her/1262456214
So I'll assert what should be obvious to anyone thinking rationally and not emotionally: Tablet is a nowhere category. For all the hype about an Apple tablet , it is at best a niche product. The world doesn't need an Apple tablet, no matter what the hype about rumored features or regardless of what actually releases (if anything).
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

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Never quote idiots, they just clog up...
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post #44 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

Utter crap, as per usual...

actually, his post is mostly correct.
post #45 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandau View Post

or just wait until you can install a hackin-touch OS on your non-apple tablet...

Actually I have been using Win 7 (Hissssss) for months now and really like it. It has touch capability. A reasonably priced tablet running Win 7 will be a win for me. For me, it all comes down to price. I bought my 27" iMac because I feel you could not get a better deal anywhere else for that type of computer and screen but refuse to pay for a Macbook or Mac Desktop because I feel they are over priced. Remember, this is how I feel, I am sure others feel differently.
post #46 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Aside from the jab at MS, in all seriousness, Apple will release a tablet, it'll be like nothing else out there, the tablet market will be reinvented, and MS will release a poor copy two years later when the rest of the market has already moved way beyond it.


Yep. Internet Explorer is a perfect example. MS comes in late, with an inferior product. We all know how that one turned out.
post #47 of 166
Oh goody! I cannot wait to see the slew of crappy horrible Microshft based tablets. These will all be described as Apple Tablet killers and will all be available shortly thereafter on overstock.com at a 95% discount.

At least once can say that Apple provides and creates hundreds of "jobs". Everyone spends tons of money being an apple killer and produces a boat load of crappy products.

Oh well!

JD
post #48 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by primedetailer View Post

There is going to be a lot of new, very nice looking tablets showing up on the market, but the biggest advantage that Apple has and everyone already knows about, is Itunes. Itunes is what has made the Ipod and Iphone so successful. I'm sure that Itunes is going to be redesigned to accommodate the new device. All of the apps that are available to the Iphone will probably be available to the new device plus there will probably be new sectors in Itunes to accommodate the new increased demands for the former print media. The way magazines, blogs, newspapers, and books have been available is going to change drastically.

Itunes is going to be a "one source" place for people to get all of their digital media.

I just do not see really needing iTunes for this device. I have my iPhone for that. I want something that is small, fun to use and can be productive in a pinch. Surf the net sitting on my couch (which I do with my iPhone now) and doing basic internet stuff. Im not sure I plan to watch movies on it or listen to music from it. Reading digital content is a great idea but all the major news agencies are not going to limit their products to only iTunes. There will be media readers for all platforms.
post #49 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by csimmons View Post

Point is there are several REAL reasons many companies continue to use MS products, but that's slowly but surely starting to change.

#1 on that list is the fact that MS products constitute the basis of the "IT full employment act."
As an IT and Security professional, I thank MS every day for assuring me a paycheck due to Windows' complexity and poor security.
post #50 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

How do you compete against something that does not exist \

Bingo. You win a cookie.

The rest of industry is chasing Apple, even though they don't know yet where Apple is going.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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post #51 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

Utter crap, as per usual...


So is your rebuttal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zep View Post

actually, his post is mostly correct.


Thank you, what don't you agree with me upon?

Most likely the new closed UI replacing OS X UI, that I admit is speculation.

But one thing I do know, is machines and their UI get simpler to use over time and Apple is no exception.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #52 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

It doesn't matter that others might launch their tablets first. They've been launching them for years anyhow.

Apple was a latecomer to the MP3 player and smartphone markets and now look at where they are. Being first to market is not all that it's cracked up to be.

At least that's the opinion of one Apple shareholder.

Bingo.

Others may launch first, but that is immaterial. Given the current "coolness" factor of Apple products, to say nothing of superior functionality, only hardcore PC/Windows early adopters will buy before Apple releases their tablet. Others will wait.

Thunder will not be stolen.
post #53 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyhyde@me.com View Post



BTW, to whomever claimed that Apple's sales pale in comparison to the alternatives, this is true if you compare Apple against everyone else, but when you compare Apple against any other single company (which is the more fair comparison), they're not doing too bad.


According to Barrons, WRT 3Q 2009:

"Acer overtook Dell Computer (DELL) as the world's second-largest PC maker. Acer's total PC sales reached 10.7 million for the third quarter, behind HP's 15.9 million"

According to Ars Technica:

"Apple shipped 2.6 million computers during the last quarter [meaning 3Q 2009]"

Apple is nowhere near the market leaders in unit sales. And when comparing OSX to the market as a whole, Apple is a niche player.

This is nothing to be ashamed of, but the facts are not in accord with your understanding of the computer market.
post #54 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Lee Kai-fu said that the device combines the functions of a netbook, the Amazon Kindle, and an e-book reader.

isn't that redundant. cause the Kindle is an e-book reader.

Quote:
Last July, AppleInsider first reported that Apple's tablet would debut in the first quarter of 2010.

the thing is that Apple never reveals something without a release date. and sometimes that date is measured in days and weeks and not months. So Tell in January, release by July (perhaps to go with the unlocking of the iphone) if not sooner is likely. And there will be lots of hype in between.

are these other guys that close to release. cause no matter how pretty the prototypes are if they don't see the shelf way before the Apple device, they won't be much by way of competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Going out on a limb - It will not be called iSlate. In fact it won't be called "i" anything.

i will agree with the iXXXX. but I say it won't be anything touch cause that will cause confusion with the ipod touch. won't be Book cause that name has been used and they won't want an association with the now vastly underpowered laptop line. and it won't be Mac anything cause THE rumor is that it's an iphone os device. so something like ipod slate or ipod tablet does make sense, even if it lacks a sexy vibe to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I am waiting to see what Apple's price point will be. I think a tablet will be great, and knowing Apple their product will be awesome but I do not want to spend a fortune on it.

if you are expecting PC prices you'll be disappointed. the device is rumored to fit in between the iphone and the macbook so you can expect a price point of at least $699. if there's any kind of 3g service perhaps the carriers will offer some kind of subsidy or rebate for a data line but probably not more than $100-200.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

They are not dominating the phone space, however, but instead are in third place.

considering how many phones are out there, third ain't shabby

Quote:
And on the desktop, their sales are dwarfed by alternative choices.

if they wanted to make cheap machines and/or clones to kill off all the other companies they could and would. but they clearly don't want to. they are happy with a lower market share due to legal advantages. because they are small in the share, they can legally tying and control the hardware, which allows them to better control the quality of their software due to fewer variables. it also allows them to provide services like their Genius Bar without breaking the bank cause they don't have to train their people on every possible config in the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

The iTab (my favorite name) will retail for $1500 bucks, be missing features other tablets have and will probably be tied to AT&T for it's content. I hope not, but probably so.

i will see you on
the name. they don't iXXXX anything anymore. although whatever it is, folks will probably shortened the name just like they do with the iTouch
the price. too high
the features. yeah, some will be missing cause Apple isn't looking to make a notebook that is flat, but other companies will probably attempt this.
the content. ATT has never been the source of content
ATT at all. this device will most likely be focusing on those that didn't get the iphone for one of several reasons, access included. any 3g/4g will likely be optional and I'm betting with both CDMA and GSM access unlocked for any carrier to pick up and add access to your existing cell phone account. this is also why I wouldn't be shocked if it releases for sale in the summer with the ATT gig hits 3 years and could hit the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by primedetailer View Post

There is going to be a lot of new, very nice looking tablets showing up on the market, but the biggest advantage that Apple has and everyone already knows about, is Itunes.

i agree, in the sense that iTunes = content.

and content will be the key. all these rumors of a tv subscription service, digital magazines, lala music streaming. add all your existing media and apps. these are the things that will excite folks the most.

not that it comes in every color of the rainbow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

It only takes a few minutes of actual labor to reinstall Windows if it's hosed. Take the machine into the shop and "ghost" the drive from a master and go do something else while that's working. Return the machine in a hour, it's that simple.

same with a Mac. i do it all the time.

Quote:

Another fact is OS X is tied to hardware, if your business needs matte screen laptops for the road warriors, Apple doesn't sell them except in a very few models.

thing is that most businesses with road warriors aren't going to go for a 13 inch laptop. they will start at a 15. and typically they lean towards the high end so they have machines that won't be junk in a year or two. so going and getting that 2.8 Macbook pro ain't a huge deal. Especially since most areas have at least one store with a business associate and if you are buying in bulk or buy a lot over time there are discounts. they aren't huge but certainly they offset the $50 for the matte screen.

plus if something goes wrong with the computer, pretty much every major city in the US and a number overseas has an Apple store. which makes it real easy to find help. and help that is trained on your machine type (unlike places like Best Buy where they might know, might not)

Quote:
You want a real computer 10 years from now? It will be a Windows machine.

or not.

fact is that I've seen a lot of Macs used in businesses and some of them are 10 years old, give or take a year. they might not be doing big fancy things, but they work for what the owners need.

so in the end that's really the key. what are you doing with it. that decides if you go windows or mac. because for many a 'real computer' in the sense of biggest, baddest bits with the lowest price isn't the game. the game is if it can do what needs to be done in the best possible way.

For an accountant, it's likely Windows cause number crunching is number crunching.

but a high end editing house in LA is likely to use Final Cut, Logic etc. either just on Macs or with Mac connected to a Unix/Linux based render farm. but rarely will you see them using a Windows system.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #55 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


Their goal is NOT to selflessly aid consumer well-being.

Their goal is to extract as much profit from the consumer as possible, given their available capital, and to and distribute that profit to shareholders.

While the two are not orthogonal, one is a means while the other is the end.

Mmmm...

Except, Apple does not distribute any profit to their shareholders.

*
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post #56 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyhyde@me.com View Post

If Freescale does indeed convince manufacturers to produce $200 tablets, I predict it might very well be Newton vs. Palm all over again.

The Newton (handwriting recognition problems aside) was *far* better than the Palm. But at $700, it just couldn't compete with the $200 Palm units.

BTW, I still own a Newton Message Pad 2100 and love the device. I was willing to pay nearly $1,000 for it and considered it a bargain. Granted, Apple has added a lot of people like me to its stable over the past 15 years, but it will be interesting to see if Apple's "Cool Factor" can overcome a $500 price difference in the tablet space. A lot of it may have to do with how atrocious the new tablets are and how quickly the other manufacturers can match Apple (and the smart phone copies suggest that Apple may have an advantage here).


BTW, to whomever claimed that Apple's sales pale in comparison to the alternatives, this is true if you compare Apple against everyone else, but when you compare Apple against any other single company (which is the more fair comparison), they're not doing too bad.

Or it could be like mac vs pc (low percentage of unit sales, high percentage of profits), or iPod vs mp3 player (high percentage of unit sales and high percentage of profits), or iPhone vs other phones which would fall somewhere in between those two. Also keep in mind that $200 would not be the cost to the consumer, but to manufacturers wishing to make use of the reference design.
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post #57 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Thank you, what don't you agree with me upon?

Most likely the new closed UI replacing OS X UI, that I admit is speculation.

But one thing I do know, is machines and their UI get simpler to use over time and Apple is no exception.

these 2 things.
Quote:
Apple doesn't give a rats ass, they want to sell flashy devices to home consumers and be absolutely no threat to Microsoft and the PC industry at all.

Forget all about OS X taking over the world, it's not going to happen. Apple is already introducing a new closed UI on consumer devices and that's going to be their market.
post #58 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I'm curious... why would you lie to a friend?
He didn't have to buy anything (which you know), and all devices come with enabling software.

uh no. the ipod touch comes with the means to buy direct. although if you lose or break it you will be buying again. but existing music from your CDs still requires a computer

and none of the other ipods can buy direct. since the OP said ipod, perhaps the person has a nano. not a touch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I just do not see really needing iTunes for this device. I have my iPhone for that. I want something that is small, fun to use and can be productive in a pinch. Surf the net sitting on my couch (which I do with my iPhone now) and doing basic internet stuff.

as do many folks but the phone is too small to be effective for them

as for the other tasks. you might not want to watch video on it. but others might. so they will love it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmmm...

Except, Apple does not distribute any profit to their shareholders.

*

so what do you think made the stock value go up over $200. especially after a drop to $80. I doubt it was just the rumors about this tablet and I know it wasn't the unseen pics of Steve Jobs shiny new liver cause the value had increased a nice deal before we even heard a rumor that that was what was going on.

could it have been Apple's sales numbers and profit reports. i'm thinking yeah.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #59 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

The "T"mernator!

No?! How about "Macntouch" instead of Macintosh!

Depending on one's geo-linguistic upbringing, "Macntouch" might sound rather perverted.

That said, I really doubt Apple will stick an "i" on the tablet's name, whatever it will be. Aside from iMacs and iPods, it would be gimmicky for Apple to continue placing an "i" on their new products' names (as if other companies aren't already overusing the "iwhatever" these days). Just my opinion.
post #60 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

Oh goody! I cannot wait to see the slew of crappy horrible Microshft based tablets. These will all be described as Apple Tablet killers and will all be available shortly thereafter on overstock.com at a 95% discount.


JD

Personally, I can't wait to see the slew of cool great Android based tablets.

And I don't really care how they are described.

Check this one out, for example: http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/12/18...etter-be-real/

If these guys can do it (which is not yet proven) then companies like Dell and HP and Asus can do it too. My guess is that all of them have multiple designs in various states of completion.
post #61 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Well, I've said it before, but I'l say it again... I dunno whats wrong with the iBook name they already have. Seems the most sensible name to me.

What is it people fail to understand about the fact that books fold, tablets do not? Rhetorical question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Interesting. Any reason why you think that might be?

Because I think it will be called "Mac touch". The touchscreen iPod is called iPod touch, the touchscreen Mac will be called Mac touch. People keep trying to persuade me it won't have Mac in the name, as "it won't be a Mac", but I think they are thinking too small. Yes I know the whole Mac OS X UI would need to be changed so it makes sense on a tablet, but I think this thing will be more like a MacBook Air-without a physical keyboard, than it will be like a large iPod touch. If I had my way, this thing would be marketed as and called "Mac touch" for those reasons, and more.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #62 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Like your optimism but here are the facts.

Businesses who need to hire IT personal usually to fix other things besides Windows.

Even a company filled with just Mac's needs IT personnel, to maintain servers, data, backups, hardware maintenance, upgrades and hand holding/teaching.

It only takes a few minutes of actual labor to reinstall Windows if it's hosed. Take the machine into the shop and "ghost" the drive from a master and go do something else while that's working. Return the machine in a hour, it's that simple.

Another fact is that most people know and businesses use Windows and Office, schools teach it, the business world uses it. It's done, no possible penetration possible, even free OpenOffice hasn't made any real headway.

Another fact is OS X is tied to hardware, if your business needs matte screen laptops for the road warriors, Apple doesn't sell them except in a very few models. So choice of hardware is another problem, Toughbook with OS X? Dream on!

Apple doesn't give a rats ass, they want to sell flashy devices to home consumers and be absolutely no threat to Microsoft and the PC industry at all.

Forget all about OS X taking over the world, it's not going to happen. Apple is already introducing a new closed UI on consumer devices and that's going to be their market.

You want a real computer 10 years from now? It will be a Windows machine.


Sure a few companies can save money by going all Mac, but Apple is flaky and so is their hardware choices. Try getting video card upgrades for your Apple towers over the years and you'll see what I mean.

Also most Mac's are closed boxes, this makes it difficult to remove drive and service the device in house. The whole machine (and your companies private data) goes off to lala land to be fixed.

Since it's so easy to clone a Windows machine from a master, the benefits of going all Mac in business doesn't offset the drawbacks and limited hardware choices Apple provides.

Steve got that money from Gates to breath life into Apple and not to be a threat to his empire by going off into another direction. Apple Computer>Apple etc.

Sorry that's the truth and that comes from a 20 year Mac veteran.

Wow.This statement contains another 4 or 5 of the top ten lamest critiques. Impressive

Word of advice: claiming to be "a 20 year Mac veteran" does not make your statement any more credible or true.

I'll play along, though: I'm a MSCE-certified IT specialist, and 3 of the (fairly large) companies that I do some freelance IT troubleshooting for recently switched to all Apple solutions. The money they saved on IT costs alone allowed these companies to hire more regular personnel. I still do IT work for each of these companies because, in addition to being a certified Windows specialist, I'm also a "20 year Mac veteran".

You've actually hit on the main reason most IT guys are afraid to advise their companies to go Apple: fear of losing their job.
post #63 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by csimmons View Post

Wow.This statement contains another 4 or 5 of the top ten lamest critiques. Impressive

Word of advice: claiming to be "a 20 year Mac veteran" does not make your statement any more credible or true.

I'll play along, though: I'm a MSCE-certified IT specialist, and 3 of the (fairly large) companies that I do some freelance IT troubleshooting for recently switched to all Apple solutions. The money they saved on IT costs alone allowed these companies to hire more regular personnel. I still do IT work for each of these companies because, in addition to being a certified Windows specialist, I'm also a "20 year Mac veteran".

You've actually hit on the main reason most IT guys are afraid to advise their companies to go Apple: fear of losing their job.

Very well put.
post #64 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Apple is nowhere near the market leaders in unit sales.

Businesses run on profits, not on units.

Profits (quarter): Acer = $60m Apple $1230m

Annual Income: Acer $3.6b Apple $8.34

Acer are "bigger" than Apple because they are making cheap netbooks and selling them to make a $15 profit on each one. This trick fool the markets into thinking Acer is big.

In terms of revenue - which is the largest personal computer manufacturer in the US?

C.
post #65 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I am waiting to see what Apple's price point will be. I think a tablet will be great, and knowing Apple their product will be awesome but I do not want to spend a fortune on it. If the competition can come in well under Apple on price, I will forgo a few bells and whistles to save a few hundred bucks. On the other hand if the gap is very small then Apple all the way.

Price is going to be absolutely critical. If you already have an iPhone and a MacBook/MBP then this 'in between' device is going to be a luxury unless it's very affordable. Obviously affordable is different for different people, but really you're looking at sub $500 if you want existing Mac and iPhone owners to jump in.

The other thing is content, and Apple may be getting into troube in regards content, as Disney and Apple have not signed up for DECE (Digital Entertainment Eco System) and seem to be going it alone on Video. I am seeing this thing as potentially a portable Apple TV with no OS X functionality or an Intel Chipset for compatibility. Although the usual fanatics will buy one, it has the potential to flop if there's no 'Killer App' for it.

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
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post #66 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

I agree. Apple was not first in the MP3 player market, but came
to dominate it. Same thing might happen in the tablet space.

They are not dominating the phone space, however, but instead are in third place.

And on the desktop, their sales are dwarfed by alternative choices.

But all they really care about is the bottom line, and at this point, they are doing well there.


They may be in third place (which is an impressive feat in and of itself in only 2.5 years), but they command much higher margins off the iPhone than every other phone company out there which puts their earnings in first or second place. Again, very impressive for a company with releases 1 model per year. But more importantly, Apple has single-handedly changed the fundamentals of what what a phone is suppose to do and brought it to the mainstream. In essence, some may argue that mindshare is sometimes more important than marketshare.
post #67 of 166
Not counting what Apple has up their sleeve, i.e., surely we will be surprised, I am talking it up and telling everybody to wait. Not that I have to because most of the stuff being shown at the CES are concept only. That is waiting to see what they have to copy from Apple.
The Apple Advantage
  • The iPhone OS
  • iTunes
  • The iTunes Store
  • The iTunes U
  • The iTunes iPhone Apps
  • All 120,000 plus of them
  • Thousand of iPhone app developers (consumer/enterprise) just waiting for a bigger screen
  • Steve Jobs
The Apple Disadvantage
  • Ignorance
  • Contrived or real
post #68 of 166
It is time to buy even more Apple stock.

The "competition" has geared up to sell glorified bathroom web-browswers. In 2010 Apple is going to show how its is done with a Tablet that redefines seamless ubiquitous computing. After that the competition will quietly discontinue their line of updated crapware and go back to the drawing board to figure out a better way to trick the consumer into thinking they are buying an Apple tablet for less money.
post #69 of 166
Quote:
randyhyde@me.com

BTW, to whomever claimed that Apple's sales pale in comparison to the alternatives, this is true if you compare Apple against everyone else, but when you compare Apple against any other single company (which is the more fair comparison), they're not doing too bad.

You mean profits, not volume of course.

Apple does cater to the high end niche consumer market. It would be nice if they also had a branch off in the cheaper business market with more expandable and upgradable options.

Many companies make the same devices with two different brand names, refrigerators for example. Look carefully and sometimes one will catch two very similar machines in the store with different stickers. One a well known brand and other a off brand. Perhaps this isn't as easy to do in the computer market as refrigerators.



Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

same with a Mac. i do it all the time.

My point was that it doesn't take a lot of human time to rebuild Windows so there really isn't much IT savings. It's automated mostly.

Windows insecurity is job security.


Quote:
thing is that most businesses with road warriors aren't going to go for a 13 inch laptop. they will start at a 15. and typically they lean towards the high end so they have machines that won't be junk in a year or two. so going and getting that 2.8 Macbook pro ain't a huge deal. Especially since most areas have at least one store with a business associate and if you are buying in bulk or buy a lot over time there are discounts. they aren't huge but certainly they offset the $50 for the matte screen.

Apple had both matte and glossy laptops, then only the 17", then when I got in touch with Steve he brought back the 15" but now it's only on the high end 15" model.

So you see, no consistency.

If Dell stops selling matte screen laptops, there is other vendors like Lenevo that will. It doesn't require a OS, software and learning change, you just keep the same Windows and software.

Quote:
plus if something goes wrong with the computer, pretty much every major city in the US and a number overseas has an Apple store. which makes it real easy to find help. and help that is trained on your machine type (unlike places like Best Buy where they might know, might not)

Companies that sell computers to business typically have some sort of hardware support option included in the contract that works with the IT department.

So if something breaks outside what a typical in house IT personnel can fix, at least the hard drive can be removed before service and placed into another computer that the service guy brings when they pick up the old one. Very little downtime. Does Apple do this? Not!

With closed hardware Mac's, it's like Apple needs to hold people's hands and doesn't want them opening their machines.

Two different markets and approaches.

Quote:
fact is that I've seen a lot of Macs used in businesses and some of them are 10 years old, give or take a year. they might not be doing big fancy things, but they work for what the owners need.

So have I, believe it or not, good Windows machines off the internet can last a considerably long time as well. Windows is insecurity by design in order to drive software and hardware sales.

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so in the end that's really the key. what are you doing with it. that decides if you go windows or mac. because for many a 'real computer' in the sense of biggest, baddest bits with the lowest price isn't the game. the game is if it can do what needs to be done in the best possible way.

Mac's have lost their "desktop publishing" niche as software is available for either platform now.

If MS beats their security problems, then there isn't anything left to make a Mac better really.

Quote:
For an accountant, it's likely Windows cause number crunching is number crunching.

but a high end editing house in LA is likely to use Final Cut, Logic etc. either just on Macs or with Mac connected to a Unix/Linux based render farm. but rarely will you see them using a Windows system.


Apple has small niches here and there, but the broader market is Windows. Apple really isn't threatening that neither.

Because if they were, they would at least come out with a sub $1000 expandable tower to offer value to business customers.

Instead they come out with a above $1000 MacPro with a metal case so big it doesn't fit under a typical computer desk.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #70 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Mmmm...

Except, Apple does not distribute any profit to their shareholders.

*

Wow. I didn't realize that they have never declared a dividend. They are an old-time, big-ass multinational corporation, and I just assumed that they declared occasional dividends.

I guess my statement should have been "provide value for the shareholders" instead.
post #71 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post

I predict the price point will be over a thousand bucks. We are talking about the same company that made the MacBook Air. $1800 bucks, no DVD drive, no ethernet, no firewire, etc. But sexy as hell.

And lest we forget the original iPhone. $500 bucks, no physical keyboard, no 3G, no GPS, no video. But sexy as hell.

The iTab (my favorite name) will retail for $1500 bucks, be missing features other tablets have and will probably be tied to AT&T for it's content. I hope not, but probably so.

Well AT&T isn't tied to most iPhones that have been sold so there's no reason that Apple would think that it's a good idea to link any phone company to the tablet. If anything the archaic tied handset/phone company deal situation in the US is now surely proven to be such a dead and buried concept that I'd imagine that they'd do anything to avoid it again.
post #72 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

Businesses run on profits, not on units.

Profits (quarter): Acer = $60m Apple $1230m

Annual Income: Acer $3.6b Apple $8.34

Acer are "bigger" than Apple because they are making cheap netbooks and selling them to make a $15 profit on each one. This trick fool the markets into thinking Acer is big.

In terms of revenue - which is the largest personal computer manufacturer in the US?

C.

Your points are all correct. But the points address a different topic.

Apple has done very well with its low-volume high-profit strategy. They are like Bang & Olufsen, making beautiful tech-forward products that work well enough, with premium prices (if one considers bang/buck), which sell to a small, but enthusiastic and satisfied market.
post #73 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by csimmons View Post

I'm a MSCE-certified IT specialist, and 3 of the (fairly large) companies that I do some freelance IT troubleshooting for recently switched to all Apple solutions. The money they saved on IT costs alone allowed these companies to hire more regular personnel. I still do IT work for each of these companies because, in addition to being a certified Windows specialist, I'm also a "20 year Mac veteran".


I'm not arguing that Mac's can save companies IT money, that's a fact.

The fact is it costs in other areas:

1: Retraining

2: Machines can't be serviced in house as most Mac's are closed devices.

3: Privacy and security, hard drives can't be removed from most Mac's.

4: Lack of hardware choices from Apple. OS X tie-in to their hardware.

5: Not enough software choices or third party software only on larger market share Windows.


Mac's can be cheaper in IT costs if:

1: The company is close to a Apple Authorized repair.

2: Software used is general in nature like on PC's or specialized for Mac's requiring their hardware.

3: Hardware needs matches what Apple provides.

4: Security and privacy is not a issue.

5: Employees already use Mac's or trained that way in school.


Quote:
You've actually hit on the main reason most IT guys are afraid to advise their companies to go Apple: fear of losing their job.

The only IT personnel afraid of losing their job is the Windows only types.

To most IT, a computer is a computer, if it's running Windows, Linux, Unix or OS X. The hardware requirements are the same in house.

Windows does make more work for IT, but it's nothing when you can simply ghost a drive and reinstall. Backups, mirroring and other techniques secure a copy of the data at various time points so one can go back and restore is also automated.

Despite all of Windows flaws, solutions have been made before Apple even reappeared from the dead.


Now instead of arguing that Mac's save in IT costs, you can argue that Mac's save in company downtime costs.

After all, if a virus is lose and it hoses the Windows machines repeatedly via the internet which the company depends upon for it's income, and IT simply has to wait for a patch from whomever, that is losing the company a lot of money.

A all Mac solution will certainly save the day and the company a lot of money. If it met what Apple provides.

Also if Microsoft couldn't or refused to fix Windows, but it does and it does improve, just slowly. Just enough not to embolden competition.

However, the argument is of course if OS X had the market share Windows has, wouldn't it be just as insecure?

We can't know that for sure, because OS X doesn't have it and Linux has had it's share of problems despite it's more secure "unix like" design on servers.

So why go with a complete OS change, limited hardware choices and repair options when the same thing will occur with OS X as Windows?

Why put all your eggs in the Apple hardware basket?


Don't get me wrong, I like Apple. It's just they have not paid any attention to the business market and their needs.

Apple isn't going to make more hardware and not going to seperate OS X from their hardware, so that leaves them a niche consumer company and that's where they will remain.

It's profitable sure, but it's not ruling the world.
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #74 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by geniusanalyst View Post

It is time to buy even more Apple stock.

Generally, it is a good idea to buy low, rather than after a stock has quickly doubled. Generally, it is a good idea to buy on early rumors, and if the stock has performed, to sell right before the news.

Not always. Buying Apple now might be a home run. Then again, if you used your strategy when the Cube was just over the horizon...

Its your money, and my crystal ball remains cloudy.
post #75 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by geniusanalyst View Post

It is time to buy even more Apple stock.

The "competition" has geared up to sell glorified bathroom web-browswers. In 2010 Apple is going to show how its is done with a Tablet that redefines seamless ubiquitous computing. After that the competition will quietly discontinue their line of updated crapware and go back to the drawing board to figure out a better way to trick the consumer into thinking they are buying an Apple tablet for less money.

Wait for the inevitable drop at the end of this month, then load up for future growth. The Wal-Mart approach to Apps (good, better, best) and music and movies, and possibly books, magazine and newspaper subscriptions is going to propel Apple into uncharted territory.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #76 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post

Different markets.

Apple caters to the home consumers, that's their market and they fight hard against any competition in that area. Their products are designed with a high lust factor and invoke impulsive purchases and even theft. Some people even buy Apple's hardware with no real need for the device itself, rather just to buy a new toy.

MacBook Pros invoke impulse purchases? iMacs invoke impulse purchases? Isn't it just as probable that super cheap PCs sold at Walmart are being bought on impulse? Hey look, a PC with a printer and an LCD for $250, let's pick one up for the kid's room....

Also, "some people" buy PCs because they accidently confused them with toasters. What mythical "some people" do is not an argument for or against anything.

Quote:
The iPods in their various forms and price points are high on the list of impulsive purchases. Many people bought them not even knowing it required a computer to use them. (reports are this holiday season iPods sold extremely well)

Yes, iPods can be impulse purchases. Also, "many people" bought Zunes who were under the impression that they were Xboxes. Again, fatuous claims about what non-specific "people" are doing are a very weak form of argumentation.

Quote:
Apple cares less about the drab market, businesses like drab because it's serious and employees don't steal the hardware.

"Drab" and "serious" are not synonymous. In fact, "drab" and "poorly designed" are not synonymous, as the legions of blinky lighted, port bristling, racing striped PC hardware will attest. For that matter, Apple's laptops aren't particularly flashy, just solidly built. The old "Macs are about eye candy, PCs are about work" canard is entirely baseless, at this point, if it ever had merit. The real point of distinction is that Apple doesn't compete in the razor thin margin discount segment of the market. Look at Windows 7 and tell me that PCs are about grim productivity-- there's more bling in that OS than Apple ever dreamed of. In fact, nowadays you hear the PC crowd mocking Apple for being insufficiently flashy, claiming that OS X is "drab" and the iPhone OS is "dated" (compared to the bling heavy Zune HD).

Also, the idea that business buys less desirable hardware to prevent theft is an odd one. "Desirability" surely has some relationship to functionality, so to make sense you'd have to argue that businesses are obliged to equip their employees with shoddy, poor performing computers, to make sure they don't steal them. Unless you imagine that employees have no interested in stealing spartan looking hardware that works really well, which kind of gets to the heart of the matter.

Quote:
Businesses look at computer and software purchases with a critical eye for the bottom line, getting the most value for their money, looks are not really important, except in their creative departments. Businesses are in business to make money, not spend it on a whim if a device changes color or gets a new feature like emotional appealing consumer would.

I think you're getting computers mixed up with iPods. The design of the desktop and laptop Macs has been remarkably stable for the last number of years-- probably more so than the average Dell, which has models coming and going like a cheap hotel. Again, the real difference between Macs and PCs isn't some mythical bling vs. button down, but the vast array of cheap commodity boxes available with Windows installed. Cheap is cheap, not somehow more hardworking or serious.

Quote:
Apple changed their name from Apple Computer for a reason, they are planing on exiting the computer industry and focusing on being a consumer products company that makes devices people can easily use, not much anymore on real computers that require a lot of thought and a steep learning curve.

And as long as the people running the other computer companies think like you, Apple will have a pretty good time of it. If you can't distinguish between "ease of use" and "real computing", or good, integrated design from flashy (or that idea's obverse, that crummy design and cheap automatically equals "serious"), you're prey to a fundamental, limiting prejudice.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #77 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

Utter crap, as per usual...

Why? He posted some very good points. Makes sense.
post #78 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

MacBook Pros invoke impulse purchases? iMacs invoke impulse purchases? Isn't it just as probable that super cheap PCs sold at Walmart are being bought on impulse? Hey look, a PC with a printer and an LCD for $250, let's pick one up for the kid's room....

Also, "some people" buy PCs because they accidently confused them with toasters. What mythical "some people" do is not an argument for or against anything.



Yes, iPods can be impulse purchases. Also, "many people" bought Zunes who were under the impression that they were Xboxes. Again, fatuous claims about what non-specific "people" are doing are a very weak form of argumentation.



"Drab" and "serious" are not synonymous. In fact, "drab" and "poorly designed" are not synonymous, as the legions of blinky lighted, port bristling, racing striped PC hardware will attest. For that matter, Apple's laptops aren't particularly flashy, just solidly built. The old "Macs are about eye candy, PCs are about work" canard is entirely baseless, at this point, if it ever had merit. The real point of distinction is that Apple doesn't compete in the razor thin margin discount segment of the market. Look at Windows 7 and tell me that PCs are about grim productivity-- there's more bling in that OS than Apple ever dreamed of. In fact, nowadays you hear the PC crowd mocking Apple for being insufficiently flashy, claiming that OS X is "drab" and the iPhone OS is "dated" (compared to the bling heavy Zune HD).



I think you're getting computers mixed up with iPods. The design of the desktop and laptop Macs has been remarkably stable for the last number of years-- probably more so than the average Dell, which has models coming and going like a cheap hotel. Again, the real difference between Macs and PCs isn't some mythical bling vs. button down, but the vast array of cheap commodity boxes available with Windows installed. Cheap is cheap, not somehow more hardworking or serious.



And as long as the people running the other computer companies think like you, Apple will have a pretty good time of it. If you can't distinguish between "ease of use" and "real computing", or good, integrated design from flashy, you're prey to a fundamental, limiting prejudice.


Sounds more like a emotional rant that a argument, what are your points?
The danger is that we sleepwalk into a world where cabals of corporations control not only the mainstream devices and the software on them, but also the entire ecosystem of online services around...
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post #79 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Your points are all correct. But the points address a different topic.

Apple has done very well with its low-volume high-profit strategy. They are like Bang & Olufsen, making beautiful tech-forward products that work well enough, with premium prices (if one considers bang/buck), which sell to a small, but enthusiastic and satisfied market.

Your point misses my main point.

Which personal computer manufacturer makes the most revenue in the US?

I think it is Apple (even when we remove iPhone and iPod revenues)

That is not niche. It's freaking huge!

C.
post #80 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by iGenius View Post

Generally, it is a good idea to buy low, rather than after a stock has quickly doubled. Generally, it is a good idea to buy on early rumors, and if the stock has performed, to sell right before the news.

Not always. Buying Apple now might be a home run. Then again, if you used your strategy when the Cube was just over the horizon...

Its your money, and my crystal ball remains cloudy.

It's more than cloudy, I'd call it broken. For someone who invested 12 years ago, AAPL has returned over 4,000%. When during those 12 years would it have been "generally" not a good idea to buy, or "generally" a good time to sell? The first time it quickly doubled? The second? The third? The fourth?

That's the problem with rules of thumb. They have to cope with the real world, which doesn't behave itself according to rules of thumb.

I never give advice on when to buy and sell stocks. But if you're going to invest in individual stocks, buy companies you have reason to expect will grow, not according to some arbitrary rule. And don't try to time the market. Even the pros can't do that consistently.

Also, FWIW, Apple did pay a dividend to stockholders, a very small one, until the mid-1990s.
Please don't be insane.
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Please don't be insane.
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