Apple, Verizon in disagreement over CDMA iPhone pricing - report - Page 2

Why is Apple so stubborn to at least provide the OPTION of Blu-Ray movie playback on Macs?

most of your post is just rage and plain wrong.

1) the iphone is a smartphone. there are smart phone plans. $30/mo 5GB limit. i dont know where you got this per megabyte thing for a smart phone but enjoy being wrong.

2) visual voice mail is on vzw's network, and has been since the iphone had it. i know, i had to try and sell it (i worked at vzw at the time). again, you're wrong.

what vzw did want to do was charge for it, not let it be part of the phone for free.

3) i dont know how much an iphone ringtone is, but vzw's cost is $1.99. the song is also $1.99, but you could always put music that wasnt DRM protected on any of their phones.

4) the app store came after the deal was already made to att. in fact it came out with v2.0 of the iphone software. i dont know where you got this from in any way shape or form.

5) unless you were there, you dont know why. dont even bother posting this stuff.

a) yes they do, depending on the phone. there are world phones with *gasp* GSM chips in the phones! oh no!
b) that was to protect the company from losing money from smartphones. buy phone for $150, cut line off for $175, keep phone. sell phone on ebay for $400. phone in the store costs $599. you make profit at the expense of the company.
c) att's is the same way. there is no difference.

summary: you're wrong.

mmm not sure AT&T saw working version either ... my point is exactly that Verizon didn't take the risk.

I'm suprised this was only mentioned twice and yet to be rebuffed directly. VZW is a nonstarter with its current network.

Actually, it would be more equivalent to record companies turning down the Beatles AFTER Ed Sullivan/Shea Stadium.

Verizon, you should know your place, you're a service provider. You're not a hardware/software manufacturer or innovator in consumer devices/software. Just know your row and keep providing that fast fiber pipe so companies like Apple can use you to propagate data and media to the masses. Fall in line Verizon, get it right.

I would. You know why? Because I want to be able to make a phone call. Having a $500 smartphone that cant make phone calls is my definition of absurdity.

Just open the phone to all carriers and let people choose the network that is best for them.

AT&T does not have a 5GB limit. It is true unlimited access.

AT&T also has rollover minutes.

AT&T supports concurrent voice / data (why would Apple go backwards?)


Go ahead all you Verizon Fanboys....leave...enjoy your "superior" network.

FYI...all the latest independent Wireless Carrier Tests (Gizmodo, Network World, Telephony Online,, Engadget, Root Wireless) reach the same result: AT&T has a faster and stronger network than Verizon. Go to those websites yourself and read.

Please explain why it makes 0 sense? There are no significant technical or economical reasons to not make a CDMA phone. So from a business perspective, it makes little sense to NOT make one. It would significantly increase Apple's marketshare and profits.

I'm not saying Apple will make one. Just that there are far more rational reasons for making one than against.

you sure about that they dont have a 5gb limit?


from att's terms and conditions. verizons says basically the same thing. doesnt mean there is a hard limit, but they can charge more if they feel like it and give you notice.

go ahead you att fanboy. keep clinging to att and getting your "stronger" network dropping calls.

If the new iPhone has the Qualcomm chipset that does GSM, CDMA and LTE then all bases are covered no matter which carrier it goes to except for Sprint who is sticking with WiMax for some unknown stupid reason.



Sure the will if they include LTE since they know that Verizon will be deploying LTE at the start of 2011.



Old news that people keep quoting. Verizon gave up control when they released the Droid phones.


True, but it's old news now so it doesn't matter anymore.


True, but it's old news since they have VVM. Only problem is they want to charge $1.99 for it which most people won't do.


You don't know that for sure although it's likely true but again it's old news now. You can get your ringtones from any place you want and Verizon won't try and stop you.


Again, old news. Verizon no longer trys to control apps. The Droid phones are totally open and so will iPhones when they get them.


New phones with LTE will work outside the US as more carriers move to LTE. If the phone has the Qualcomm chip set then it will be able to work anywhere just and the BB world phones do.

We'll see what the Feds do with the $350 fee but unless you planning to leave why do you care?

AT&T doesn't have unlimited either. Both carriers will start asking questions if you go over 5GB.

You guys forget that CDMA is not exclusive to the US and that many countries including China have CDMA networks. VZW will begin the transition to LTE starting this year and initially use it for data only and CDMA for voice. Once LTE is available across the entire footprint and LTE handsets pretty common it would be easy to abandon the CDMA network. For those of you that don't remember, ATT was using TDMA at the time they were purchased by Cingular. All those customers had to then buy a GSM phone. VZW is being stubborn for the customers sake. For those of you that are not nor ever have been a VZW customer this is how they operate. If I were to buy a droid today it would cost me $99 because I'm at the end of my 2 year contract and VZW gives me a $100 credit towards a new phone. In 10 months if I wanted another phone I would pay the same price a new customer would. Not like ATT that wanted to charge a $200 upgrade fee to those that had a 3G and wanted the 3GS. Business 101 will teach you that its better to sell 10 million units at a 20% profit than 1 million at 40%. Now don't kill me on those numbers. I understand the position of both companies and both have been doing quite well. I think they should reach a compromise but one that will favor Apple.

Because of how Apple ran away with AT&T.

Verizon is a bigger company and has more to offer than AT&T (like reliability). So, they are not as easy to shake down. This is said with no disrespect for Apple. They (Steve) are an incredible phone and computer company. The best! They also possess fantastic business acumen.

The biggest obstacle I see to Apple going to Verizon is Android taking over the market. Looking at product quality and customer satisfaction, it could easily happen.

But let's face it, the iPhone is coming to Verizon. It is just too sweet a deal for both companies. They will hammer it out and the ones who will pay will be us, the customers, via late and hidden fees.

We can all agree that VZW has significantly changed in the last 3 yrs. IMO the exclusivity deal hasn't been extended because I'm sure ATT isn't gonna allow Apple to rape them a second time. If ATT is paying $700 per iPhone and the only diffrence between a cust with a flip phone and the iPhone is the $30 data plan then its takes ATT two full yrs to recover that money. If Apple wants to grow market share wise then eventually their gonna have to change a little as well.

Verizon fancies themselves more than a purveyor of bits (i.e. a dumb pipe)

That's the real heartburn - the iPhone turns them into that. I sincerly doubt apple will let them load up the iPhone with all the crap apps that were on the verizon blackberry I just configured for one of our users.

Pffft! That guy thinks he's soooo cool with his two letter name.

Well that does it, i'm going out and changing my name to a single letter. Beat that Mr. Um!

1) Blueray licensing, while a little better, still sucks

2) Very few people watch movies on their computers, let alone have screen resolution that benefits from hi-def

3) Bluray is still minority marketshare

I'm not saying they will never offer it, but I fully understand why they don't right now.

Not to start a this-carrier-is-better-or-worse-war...

But keep in mind that the unprecedented level of data usage by AT&T's iPhone customers caused much of the problem. A few thousand percent increase in traffic is pretty hard to deal with...

Yeah dude, it ain't happening. Get over it!

Apple doesn't need Verizon, Verizon doesn't need Apple. It's plain and simple.
If Apple doesn't want them to control their device with Verizons crappy VCast ans stuff, and Verizon doesn't want Apple to control the Verizon network, than they're both in an equal disagreement.
I hate it, when people, that don't have common sense, and know nothing about cell phones, and carriers, say.. "Oh! the iPhone is coming to Verizon this year. I'm waiting for it." or "They're already making the iPhone Nano. And it's gonna be on Verizon." or "People on the news said so, and i think it's true because they're are rumors." and then they think Apple is already unveiling stuff out of the blue! Seriously, good lord, just shut up!
I'm gonna share a true story, and something you can look up to yourself.
If you go to YouTube, and you type in- "Part 11 - Macworld 2007 - Steve Jobs Keynote Speech - iPhone" and whatch about the beginning of 11th video of when Steve Jobs announced that Cingular(AT&T) Would become the exclusive carrier of the iPhone. Moments after having Cingulars CEO walk off the stage and having Steve come back up, Steve told everybody at MacWorld, at 0:57 "we have worked wonderfully together, and we love these guys."
and at 1:01 he actually said!!!-"We're gonna bring some great stuff to market over the years TOGETHER!"
Uh, hello? doesn't that ring a bell? A possible tablet under the AT&T network?
Seriously guys, open your minds and think about it and don't go along with what people say and the rumors they hear.
That's why Apple built a phone, so it can call and ring all over the world with GSM carriers. That's why they came up with the iPhone 3G S, so it can go blazing fast on downloads and browser, on the device, and on the country's fastest 3G network.
They see this phone as a smart, intelligent, business also phone. So you can talk & browse, etc.
If Apple were to come up with another carrier, i'm sure it'd probably be T-Mobile.

but seriously, take a look at that MacWorld keynote.

Update! http://www.electronista.com/articles...hone.unveiling is NOT UNIVERSAL Support Chip! How IRRESPONSIBLE of CNN "reporters" to be so vague, and effect stock prices that way! No surprise... I can't wait till 1/27/10 Event to see what Apple Introduces!

I find it hard to believe that it would cost Apple more money to develop and produce CDMA iPhones that it would receive in increased revenue from Verizon customers who would refuse to switch or are unable to switch to AT&T.

Increased cost of CDMA = $1 billion???

Increased revenue (to Apple) from new iPhone customers locked into Verizon > $1 billion???

It's not about CDMA not being the future. It's not about 4G. It's not about "liking each other". It's not about GSM being the dominate protocol.

Sure there a lot of other factors that influence this decision as minor variables...such as the potential to squeeze out other developing platforms. The potential of current AT&T subscribers buying an iPhone because they wanted one all along but wanted to wait to get one until AT&T could handle the load (which they may be in a better position after the exodus to Verizon). Better halo effect, etc...

But at the end of it, it's all about making money versus the costs involved.

Of course it makes sense to release a CDMA iPhone. It forces consumers to buy new equipment from apple and not use existing iPhones, hence more $$$ for Apple. I know plenty of people willing to jump the ATT ship at almost any cost. Plus Apple can still release an LTE iPhone in 2011 and make even more $$$.

Plus CDMA is just a better service, sure 3G isn't as fast and no simultaneous data/voice, but that's because EVDO was 1st to market years ahead of GSM 3G. It's more secure, better call quality, better hand-off, less dropped calls. This would sure clear up the grief the iPhone gets as a "PHONE" (http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2009/11/...-worlds-worst/) . Last time I checked, the US military wasn't using GSM, but they do use CDMA. I don't see ATT winning any service awards lately do you? One more thing GSM is just as dead and obsolete as CDMA with LTE on the horizon. Therefore releasing another re-tooled GSM iPhone is just as stupid as releasing a CDMA.

Just as other posters have said. Apple ain't hurting for $$$, but neither is Verizon and with the Android devices coming on so hard and fast, really the iPhone has lost a lot of luster. That is unless Steve-o can keep up with what google is doing so quickly, and I am sure he will try and that means saturation. He has to get the iPhone in everyone's hands and keeping it on 1 or 2 providers ain't gonna do that.

Assuming all parties are being rational, you are correct in there is no reason to not do a CDMA iPhone.

But, it sounds like Verizon is being their usual arrogant selves.

Why should they get a better deal than AT&T? They took no risk. The iPhone is a success without them now. Despite the clever advertising, their network is't that much better then AT&T's - actually as has been pointed out their network is slower.

Apple doesn't need Verizon. They would be nice to have, but Apple doesn't need to cut any sort of deal with Verizon - it's the other way around. AT&T has beat them on adds for three quarters in a row - probably four now. There is no Alltell for Verizon to buy to artificially pump up their numbers. Other then "the network" and their narrow lead in total subscribers what's so special about them?

Nothing.

WOW...It's business! They are both pro-money otherwise why isn't Apple open source. It's just another greedy corporation. This Apple demagoguery has to stop!

Wrong... Verizon doesn't BETA test phones. That was the main reason. It lets the others take all the risks. In this case it was a big risk as Apple never made a cell phone before and wanted too much for it, including pricey one-off network upgrades and costly subsidies. Of course we can all look back and say what a mistake (in this case it was), but what if the iPhone was the next Newton. One thing you forgot, when the VZW/Apple talks were going down in 2007 VZW was still feeling the sting of it's PTT (Push-To-Talk) debacle. Don't worry about it. The phone WILL come to Verizon. It is inevitable. There is too much money to be made.

It didn't make sense in the past. There are new hybrid CDMA/GSM chips, so it might make sense now.

iPhone users are notorious data hogs. There's little doubt that vzw would have some serious issues if they suddenly had a couple million iPhone users added to their network on top of the Blackberry and Droid ones.

I agree with the gateway device theory and accept that Americans are Apple's prime target market, but 80 million people is a tiny fraction of the world wide market.

I remain convinced CDMA will wither and die, driven out of existence by demands for simultaneous voice and data and the roll out of 4G networks. Here in Canada the CDMA providers (Bell, Telus and their myriad of subsidiaries) were under so much pressure to offer the iPhone that they're routing voice calls over their shared data network. They still sell CDMA phones too so I expect the towers will continue to support those signals for a minimum of three years (standard contract length in Canada), but I wouldn't be surprised to see CDMA as we know it disappear completely at the end of 2014.

Rethink AT&T's rep when Apple's quarter numbers come out and more of Verizon's base is gouged.

[My emphasis added.]

First, I believe the extra engineering, inventory, etc is trivial. Many phone makers are able to manage versions of their phones for different carriers. To suggest that Apple couldn't do the same is an insult to Apple. Apple has multiple versions of nearly all of their products. They offer 3 different stock configurations of 15" MBP, and the option to custom configure any of them. Having another version of the iPhone would be child's play for them to manage.

As far as not increasing sales appreciably... I haven't looked at recent sales figures, but last I saw, US iPhone sales represented 50% of total sales worldwide (including US). Verizon has a slightly larger customer base than ATT. Assuming the same penetration, having the iPhone on Verizon would increase iPhone sales by 50%! Even if you assume only half the penetration with Verizon (taking into account that a lot of Verizon customers already defected to ATT), that still represents a 25% increase in iPhone sales.

I would call that an appreciable increase in sales.


CDMA isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It will still be available on Verizon's network long after the typical lifetime of an iPhone sold in 2010. Or do you think Verizon is going to abandon all of it's CDMA using customers at the end of 2012 or something? It would make perfect sense to offer a CDMA iPhone now to get you onto the iPhone platform (and locked in once you've bought a bunch of applications). That would provide a clear upgrade path to an LTE iPhone once that becomes the standard.


Of course, Verizon could simply implement the newly approved CDMA standard that allows for simultaneous voice/data. In fact, ATT's current ad campaign my entice them to do just that.


Of course, we all know that you do not have a shred of evidence to support a single one of your 5 reasons.


And yet every Consumer Reports customer survey for at least the past 5 years, since long before the iPhone brought the ATT network to its knees, has put Verizon at the top of the rankings and ATT at/near the bottom. Consistently, every year.

Historically speaking, Windows computers were faster than Macs. We were stuck on 1.5 GHz when Windows PC were pushing nearly 3 GHz. How many switched to PCs just because of that one number? Just saying that it's more than pure speed that matters, like usability...like not constantly dropping calls, or being able to use my phone at all when I go to my parent's house in a small town.

Why did apple release a 2G iphone when ATT had 3G, that was more idiotic. 4 years is an eternity in the cell phone world. I don't see your point. Most people change phones every 2 years. VZW will not have full 4G LTE until 2013-2014, and look how long VZW held onto analog AMPS after CDMA was introduced. It was at least 8-10 years. At the rate ATT puts up 3G, they wont have LTE until 2020

The US is 1/3 of the world's GDP and about 1/3 of most world markets. Verizon is the biggest US carrier. When the iPhone went multicarrier in France, it went from 15% of the smartphone market there to 40% in a few months. CDMA may be dead end technology, but why not support it for now: people are going to buy a new phone in a couple of years anyways, so its all obsolete soon.

How so... VZW had 1.2M net adds last quarter and 1.1M the quarter before that. That doesn't factor in the Droid's release.

I concur!

rethink your statement.

att's rep is garbage. you are comparing APPLE'S NUMBERS to att's rep. you cant. those two things arent even in the same field. the only reason att is still standing worth a crap is the iphone.

if Verizon refuses to cooperate, Apple should just cut a deal with TMobile and leave Verizon odd man out. that will hurt Verizon with its dead-end CDMA more than Apple. Apple marketing can point out that CDMA is 'soon to be obsolete.'

They're not fanboys, they're "verizontards"

Few do watch movies on their computer...but for the new iMac that thing would be an even sweeter deal to watch Blu-Ray on (idk if it supports 1080p res). Mac Mini or AppleTV would be quite nice for Blu-Ray. Ill hold steady with my PS3 though

Blu-Ray is picking up pretty well but most cant justify switching TVs out to go from 720p/1080i to 1080p and when China starts slinging $99 BR players at us, i think we'll see a huge jump.



ANYWAYS back to the topic...

Who cares if Verizon gets the iPhone or not? You fanboys want to dig at Verizon every chance you get, but simply put Verizon has still done remarkably well WITHOUT the iPhone. While im sure VZW does want the iPhone, i wouldnt expect them to bend over backwards for it while other carriers will.

How is CDMA going to be obsolete? Is 3G going to be obsolete? Isnt EDGE already obsolete?

Why do people assume that CDMA is just going to wither away and die? 1XEV and 3G will be the new EDGE when we are all running on LTE in a few years.

Thank you! Too many VZW haters in here. To all the haters: your posts are sooo 2001. The Big Red has luckily stopped massacring smartphones and any of their high end multimedia phones. BREW is gone - thank God! I have a Storm and I can't wait to get the iPhone. CDMA is here to stay - for years to come. LTE will initially be deployed for DATA only (akin to Sprint's WiMax, which is already in existence and currently only data devices work on WiMax). AT&T is at least a year behind Verizon in terms of LTE, probably longer. AT&T first has to fix their mess with regular 3G before they move on to LTE. Apple knows all this and they WILL make a deal with Verizon. Just wait and see...I told you so

And by the way, Verizon's EVDO might be a bit slower than HSPA, but wouldn't you rather have a fast network than a slightly faster network that is spotty at best???

Totally agreed. I used to have AT&T when they were Cingular and they sucked. Real bad. Once, I used my cell phone to call a 1-800 calling card number to call abroad and even though I only used my Cingular phone to call a US 1-800 number, and only then dialed the foreign number after confirming my PIN, they said that Cingular policy is that they charge customers as if they dialed the number directly!!!! How ludicrous.

I switched to Verizon in 2005 and I have been sooooooooooooo freakin' happy. I get free trials, late fee payment deductions, new phones, calling card functionality. None of the AT&T hassles. All I'm missing now is an iPhone to go with my MBP. And that is soon to come...