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As competition grows, Apple's iPhone still has App Store advantage - Page 2

post #41 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Overheard at an Apple store in New York:

Customer: If I run out of battery and I am not near an outlet, how do I change the battery in the iPhone?

Apple Genius: You can't do that, but you don't need to. The iPhone has a very long battery life, so you won't need to change batteries.

Customer: That doesn't answer my question. {conversation continues}

Perhaps the Apple genius didn't answer it properly. There are plenty of external battery packs that will do the job, or the person could have charged their iPhone the night before. More people get upset over battery covers falling off than a phone not having a replaceable battery.
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post #42 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitWrangler View Post

Actually there is multitasking. You can talk while you do other stuff. Some apps, like mail and safari continue to run even when you switch away (try having the mail app fetch mail and while it still says "checking for mail" switch away to another app. If there is mail there, it will download it and do whatever alert you have enabled. Minor examples but there non the less.

Yeah but I simply would love to listen to Slacker radio and surf the net. Sitting in an airport can be boring sometimes.
post #43 of 138
Would be nice to know the stats for how many of the 3 billion downloads have then been deleted. I imagine its quite high.

I think iPhone's still the best but it's nice to see other catching up as now I really want to replace my iPhone. Over a year old its now painfully slow and to be honest I just want something new. As great as it is after a while you just want something different.

What really would help get another phone ahead of the iPhone would be to allow music download from people other than Apple. Downloading music on your phone is really useful, particularly if you've heard a song on the way to work and then want to listen to it during the day. But with the iPhone you always have that issue that you know you can get exactly the same song from Amazon which wont sound any different yet it will cost less. If someone could bring a phone out with multiple stores then that would add a lot of value.
post #44 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Catching up to what? Apple sets the standard. We've already been told that while the Nexus One is a decent phone, it isn't an "iPhone Killer."

Seems like everyone else has to continue trying to "catch up."

Do you think Apple is sitting around doing nothing?

No one, but NO ONE, can manage Apple's sweet-spot combination of hardware + software. Anyone can slap a bigger camera on a phone and give it a faster processor. That's actually less than half the battle. Apple has gestalt. No one else does. And that stuff, when accomplished right, is pure magic.

In terms of software, the iPhone is missing voice-input for text entry, it is missing multi-tasking in non-Apple apps of which there are tens of thousands.

And it is missing crucial hardware features like bigger and more detailed screens so that you can actually view a webpage decently. It is missing important features like user-replaceable batteries and upgradable storage space.

A combination of fewer, worse features on the hardware side as well as the software side does not make it a better combination.

Apple has a bit of catching up to do if it wants to have the newest features.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #45 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Nope. These will lower capabilities since you'll have to include the design/implementation of the replace-ability in the cost and case design.

The Nexus one is thinner than the iPhone and still has a user-replaceable battery.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #46 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

In terms of software, the iPhone is missing voice-input for text entry, it is missing multi-tasking in non-Apple apps of which there are tens of thousands.

And it is missing crucial hardware features like bigger and more detailed screens so that you can actually view a webpage decently. It is missing important features like user-replaceable batteries and upgradable storage space.

A combination of fewer, worse features on the hardware side as well as the software side does not make it a better combination.

Apple has a bit of catching up to do if it wants to have the newest features.

Your complaints are interesting, but not that true, or important for the most part.

As has been stated, the iPhone does multitask, but not for most 3rd party apps. Likely, it will do so with the next phone in June.

There aren't much bigger screens on any other phones that aren't themselves much bigger. The iPhone screen is 3.5", this one is 3.7. not that much of a difference.

The very high resolution is more of a marketing tool than anything else, as such high resolution on such a small screen does't offer any more use. If you look at the phone, you'll see that the interface doesn't give any more information because of it, and that's what really matters. So some more resolution on the iPhone would be nice, and will likely come in June, but not that high.

What other hardware features is the iPhone missing when compared to this? I can't think of any, but I can think of a big hardware advantage the iPhone does have. The Apple connector. So far, no other company has come out with anything as useful. In fact, it's so useful, and advantageous, that they were trying to force Apple to make it available to all of them. Naturally, and wisely, Apple refused, and said that they should get together and come up with their own. We know what happened then, nothing.

Oh yeah, Pogue, in the times today said the Nexus also has no multitouch. I would think that you would be complaining about that big omission.

This has been said many times over the years, voice entry is only marginally useful. Do you really want everyone around you to hear your needs and information? Do you want to voice your credit card information in a busy store or marketplace? Do you want to speak all your phone numbers to dial? Or give your user names and passwords?

I don't think so. I have Google's voice search program on my iPhone, and while is works ok, it's not something I use more than once in a long while. It's just much easier to do it the old way. 90% accuracy (Google's numbers) isn't good enough most of the time.
post #47 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The very high resolution is more of a marketing tool than anything else, as such high resolution on such a small screen does't offer any more use. If you look at the phone, you'll see that the interface doesn't give any more information because of it, and that's what really matters. So some more resolution on the iPhone would be nice, and will likely come in June, but not that high.

It is night and day between my iPhone's screen and the nexus one. Higher resolution displays simply are so much nicer especially when you have smaller screens to work with in the first place.
Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

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post #48 of 138
This should also give people pause about the Android and new Palm OS phones.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...-drawbacks.ars

It worries me that I would have NO control over my own information and data. Google promises little about what it will do with it, and Palm says the same.

We've already seen what happened to those who have Danger phones, though some of that data was later retrieved, it took weeks. Palm recently lost WebOS data from their customers.

Also, you can't do anything for these phones through your computers.

While it's nice to go to the App Store on my iPhone, it's just a standby use. It's vastly better going through the store from the large computer screen. But with both "cloud" based OS's, you are forced to use the phone for everything. No local back-up. No nothing.

Anyone who has experienced the MobileMe crashes, or the Google crashes, and public showing of people's data and passwords, along with the various problems Hotmail and others have had, will understand the problem.

It ain't ready.
post #49 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

It is night and day between my iPhone's screen and the nexus one. Higher resolution displays simply are so much nicer especially when you have smaller screens to work with in the first place.

I agree with you here. The next iPhone could really benefit from a higher rez screen and AMOLED technology. I'm pretty sure Apple will deliver at least one of these benefits.

I'm also going to be looking for signs of resolution independence in iPhone OS 4.0. If Apple makes it easy for developers to RI their current UI relatively painfree then it makes delivering iPhones with different resolutions more feasible. Android , because it's delivered on a consortium of vendors, had to nail the multiple resolution feature down early.
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post #50 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In the face of new competitors like Google's Nexus One, Apple's iPhone still has the advantage with more than 100,000 applications and 3 billion downloads from its App Store.

Absolutely. Apps are Apple's ace in the hole. I can't remember the last time I saw an iPhone ad that actually showcased one of Apple's own apps. I'm sure I've seen a few, but they're almost all showcasing 3rd party apps now (I saw a travel ad that didn't even feature Maps).

We Mac users bought in long ago, but non-Apple users aren't impressed by the UI ("where are your folders and documents?"), they aren't impressed by Apple integration ("there's no way I'm paying for MobileMe"), and they want stuff that's never going to happen ("does it have Office Mobile?"). But when they jokingly try and put "There's an app for that" to the test, and find out there really IS an app for just about every need, hobby, and interest - suddenly they're pretty f*in blown away. Their curiosity about what's available and all the possibilities becomes pretty acute. I know more than a few people who bought an iPhone for an app. A friend's (Blackberry user) jaw hit the floor when he saw the myfantasyteams app on the iPhone vs his BB app - two weeks later he had an iPhone - and I have similar stories with MLB At Bat, Facebook, and Papers.

First, you see it in their eyes - then they say "I've got to have that" - then they spend 1 week trying to figure out if they can duplicate the functionality elsewhere - and then they buy an iPhone and head straight for the App store - over and done. Non-Apple people feel there's nothing fundamental about the iPhone that they can't get elsewhere these days (or from that "cool new phone that's coming out soon"), its the developers that continue to make these non-Apple people crave the iPhone (with more than a little help from the OS, SDK, and App store, of course).
post #51 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

It is night and day between my iPhone's screen and the nexus one. Higher resolution displays simply are so much nicer especially when you have smaller screens to work with in the first place.

The Nexus isn't out yet. Are you at CES then?

I've seen the Nokia 900 with it's larger than Nexus screen with the same resolution, and while it's nice, as I said, no more information can be displayed because the screen is too small for people to read it. A compromise resolution between these screens and what the iPhone has would be best.

You haven't responded to anything else I've said. Does that mean you agree?
post #52 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

At least you have the option and choice to do so on other phones. The iPhone is locked in.

Not sure about making an even more rigorous approval process, since the one already being used is severely mishandled and non-transparent.

Locked only in the sense that Apple chooses to prevent it vs a fundamental limitation in the OS. Huge, major difference.

All this talk about multitasking, I often wonder if it's really a red herring. What i _REALLY_ want even more than multitasking (though multitasking is one way to deliver it) is to be able to switch between apps and have them maintain their context. I hate how I'll click on a link in an email and have to navigate back to the mail app. Other apps are even worse, at least mail will still be at the original email, other apps effectively start over again. Simply putting the background app to sleep while the new app launches and then reviving it upon "return" would be a HUGE efficiency gain.
post #53 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

Number of a available apps is meaningless. of the 100000 apps on the iPhone, only a handful are truly useful. Most are merely links to websites or fart apps.

And having TOO many to choose from makes it more difficult to weed out the crap. The quantity on the iPhone is starting to become a problem more than a benefit.

That being said, the iPhone is still the easiest to use, by far. The other phones do the same things, but nowhere near as gracefully.


I'm guessing by your comments that you never do a Google search for anything then because a lot of times a search will come up with 100s of thousands of web pages .... this doesn't stop the average joe from using the web and it won't stop them from using the app store either. Get real.
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post #54 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Just because a lot of people download a fart app or a flashlight app does not make it a "must-have".


And who are you to decide what is or is not a "must have" for anyone except you ... how arrogant!
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post #55 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Overheard at an Apple store in New York:

Customer: If I run out of battery and I am not near an outlet, how do I change the battery in the iPhone?

Apple Genius: You can't do that, but you don't need to. The iPhone has a very long battery life, so you won't need to change batteries.

Customer: That doesn't answer my question. {conversation continues}

I am having trouble believing that, g3pro. It seems the employee should have simply pointed to all the battery attachments of many sizes and types that recharge the internal battery quickly

I’d also think they’d explain how Apple’s model is better in many ways because the built-in battery allows for a stronger case (see: Verizon’s “stickering" of the Droid’s faulty battery door) and allows for cheaper batteries that can be recharged (and synced) inline without a complex shell game to do it.
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post #56 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

In terms of software, the iPhone is missing voice-input for text entry, it is missing multi-tasking in non-Apple apps of which there are tens of thousands.

And it is missing crucial hardware features like bigger and more detailed screens so that you can actually view a webpage decently. It is missing important features like user-replaceable batteries and upgradable storage space.

A combination of fewer, worse features on the hardware side as well as the software side does not make it a better combination.

Apple has a bit of catching up to do if it wants to have the newest features.

Apple releases a phone once a year, the hardware will get "outdated". It is the same with macs, long refresh cycles and only one manufacturer means that PC's often have better specs (unless you are looking at macs when they are refreshed).

To understand this relationship I'll paint a little picture for you:
Imagine a hypothetical market with Apple and 5 competitors, where the competitors all use the same OS (android/Windows). Each of the 6 companies releases one device a year and all the release dates are equally spaced over the year. Lets also assume that each device released is better (hardware wise) than all the others previously released.

What this would mean is that each company would have the "best" device for 1/6 of the year. Unfortunately for Apple, the other 5 device use the same OS, so the other OS will have the best hardware for 5/6 of the year. This is just the reality. Can Apple change that? Not really. Even if Apple were to release 5x as many models as the other companies released individually, Apple would only have the best hardware for half of the year. However, as an individual, any device you buy will only have the best hardware for 1/6 of the year. A new device running the same OS as yours doesn't make yours better.

So what does Apple have that the competition doesn't? Better software/OS. That is where the strength in macs and the iPhone lies. Apple is great at making software very intuitive and user friendly, and because they also control the hardware, the user experience is even further enhanced. The iPhones popularity and the app developer support only furthers this advantage. So going back to my example, if you want the best of the best would you choose a device that has the best hardware for 1/6 of the year, but an inferior user experience for the full year or an Apple product that also has the best hardware for 1/6 of the year but also has a better user experience for the full year?

Be it a mac or an iPhone, I always recommend waiting for a product refresh (if possible) if you want the best value/performance. However in the case of the iPhone, the hardware advances since are rather marginal (not crucial like you suggest), and I would still recommend an iPhone (for the software advantage) over any Android device right now. You keep mentioning screen size, and I don't know why. Bigger isn't always better. Screen size creates direct tradeoff between viewable area and the size of the device. The bigger the screen, the bigger the phone (typically). The optimum size desired would vary from person to person. Personally I don't have a problem reading websites on my iPhone, and I wouldn't want a bigger phone. If they can increase the screen size by reducing the size of the bezel without increasing the size of the phone, go for it, otherwise don't.
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post #57 of 138
Several friends of mine who have both Palm Pre's and earlier Androids complain about battery drain or system slowdown or lock-up due to things running in the background - fortunately at least one OS (don't remember which) has a tool for shutting down backgrounders, yeah that is such the good thing.

The constant demand for replaceable batteries is sooo 20th century. Several iPhones owning acquaintances have added one of the Mophi products to their iPhones as case+battery pack and report insanely longer times between charges and the reason why most of the current contenders have SD slots is because they don't bother to build in enough memory to begin with. They have no choice but to make that available in order to have enough storage.

Apps.Apps.Apps. It doesn't matter that you only use a subset of the over 100000 apps available. Or that it is a very small subset. With a population that large, it can meet the needs, wants and desires of a correspondingly larger population than any lesser source. In fact its probably OK that there is some wanker out there that wants nothing more than a truly infantile set of bodily noise apps, a selection of pron stuff and an assortment of flashlights, lighters and generally stupide effects. It simply means that a dev somewhere, is merrily cha-chinging away on the next version and watch the 69s drop into his/her Paypal account (that's 99s less Apple's 30% overhead charge). Review your Venn diagrams learning from high school - this is basic consumer intelligence stuff.

Measurements: the Nexus is a whopping .8mm thinner, 2.3mm less wide and 3.5mm longer than the iPhone. Assuming then that the Nexus will be the basis for an ongoing hardware profile, they have done a decent job of optimizing the existing space to accomodate the infrastructure - but can they develop out that space - add memory, etc without having to change the physical dimensions? Perhaps, perhaps not. With the iPhone you see some available space to allow further development of the hardware profile as they did moving from the 3G to the 3GS - allowing for Ives design obsessions. What did HTC give up in the dimensional design to allow for a replaceable battery and SDslot? Or is the snapdragon chipset small enough to give them the additional room they will need to support enough battery to keep those background apps running? Just sayin'
post #58 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

When will they learn that people love the iPhone because of the experience it provides not how much memory Apple can cram into it.

Agreed... The default background images on the Google phone look like taken out of a game from last century early 80s (Arkanoid anyone ?).

But for Google that is good enough, after all, the OS if given away for free... As long as it is a good enough new channel for them to serve adds.

You would never find such a low quality artwork on an Apple handset period.
post #59 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitWrangler View Post

All this talk about multitasking, I often wonder if it's really a red herring. What i _REALLY_ want even more than multitasking (though multitasking is one way to deliver it) is to be able to switch between apps and have them maintain their context.

The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.

I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.
post #60 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

The lack of voice-input in all text entry fields, multi-tasking, user-replaceable battery, user-upgradable memory, competent carrier, and cost-effective call/data plans are huge detractors for the iPhone.

The tiny screen size and low resolution don't help either.

Apple has some serious catching-up to do if it wants to compete in the future.


I hardly think so. Spouting off features or lack there of is absolutely meaningless and highly subjective. One or a few of those may be important to some users, but I hardly think they are "detracting" people from buying an iPhone.

The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard. The rest of what you mentioned are not features most people specifically look for in a mobile device.

I would say, given how app crazy iPhone users seem to be, Android's inability to install applications on removable storage would be its biggest detractor. The Nexus One only has 512MB (Internal Storage; Flash Memory), the Droid, 256MB, which means they can't install applications beyond that point. Currently on my iPhone, applications take up a little over 860MB of storage, which means if I own an Android device, I would have to remove a lot of the functionality that I wanted or needed.
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post #61 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.

I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.

Luckily there is a very good chance it will be addressed by then. An Apple tablet running some variant of iPhone OS will have multitasking (virtually a given) and the next iPhone will likely be using dual core Arm chips so Apple might decide that multitasking will work well enough to meet their standards. I think switching would just highlight a bunch of other things that you took for granted on an iPhone. Although I do want to get an Android device so I can compare and contrast them more accurately. Going on third party reports isn't the best way.
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post #62 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

In terms of software, the iPhone is missing voice-input for text entry, it is missing multi-tasking in non-Apple apps of which there are tens of thousands.

And it is missing crucial hardware features like bigger and more detailed screens so that you can actually view a webpage decently. It is missing important features like user-replaceable batteries and upgradable storage space.

A combination of fewer, worse features on the hardware side as well as the software side does not make it a better combination.

Apple has a bit of catching up to do if it wants to have the newest features.

Ah... seems to me all the other phone makers are trying to catch up to Apple. So who exactly does Apple need to catch up to?
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post #63 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.

I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.

Apple stated that they would have 3rd party multitasking when they felt the hardware and battery life would accommodate it. Hopefully, that will be this coming June. It's a good chance. Apple has been knocking the complaints about features off with every upgrade. This one will come too.
post #64 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

I hardly think so. Spouting off features or lack there of is absolutely meaningless and highly subjective. One or a few of those may be important to some users, but I hardly think they are "detracting" people from buying an iPhone.

The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard. The rest of what you mentioned are not features most people specifically look for in a mobile device.

I would say, given how app crazy iPhone users seem to be, Android's inability to install applications on removable storage would be it's biggest detractor. The Nexus One only has 512MB (Internal Storage; Flash Memory), the Droid, 256MB, which means they can't install applications beyond that point. Currently on my iPhone, applications take up a little over 860MB of storage, which means if I own and Android device, I would have to remove a lot of the functionality that I wanted or needed.

According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than thata major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.

The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/te...pogue.html?hpw
post #65 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post

Luckily there is a very good chance it will be addressed by then. An Apple tablet running some variant of iPhone OS will have multitasking (virtually a given) and the next iPhone will likely be using dual core Arm chips so Apple might decide that multitasking will work well enough to meet their standards. I think switching would just highlight a bunch of other things that you took for granted on an iPhone. Although I do want to get an Android device so I can compare and contrast them more accurately. Going on third party reports isn't the best way.

I'm willing to bet iPhone OS 4.0 will allow for limited 3rd party application multitasking, much in the same way applications ask for permission to use CoreLocation, you will have to specifically allow an application to run in the background and once they do they will not be allowed to spawn off other processes or even start new threads. This will allow applications to remain resident in memory, but not consume anymore resources than absolutely necessary.

It will also only be allowed on 3GS devices or newer; anything older only has 128MB of RAM, and running multiple applications is not practical on those devices.


Regarding Android, a friend of mine recently got an HTC Hero, which is running Android 1.6 (It is an entirely different discussion on why he cannot upgrade to the latest version of Android and a "feature" many Android device proponents fail to mention), but it was definitely clunky. I guess I must just be used to Apple's use of OS X's CoreAnimation everywhere in the interface. The best way to describe it is the iPhone intelligently presents new information and views to you in the interface; for instance, when you click in a field to enter text, the keyboard slides into view and as it does it also pushes the input field up as well so you can see what you're entering. On the Android device, the keyboard just popped up completely covering the field. I had to scroll the field into view to see what I was typing. To many, that may not seem like a big deal, but in practice, it actually is and the user interface is filled with these little things that make the entire experience that much more pleasurable to use.

And when you get right down to it, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features.
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post #66 of 138
3rd party multitasking is a must and Apple should let it be up to the user to determine if we want the penality in battery life or not. The resolution, display size are a non-factor for me. I have no need for anything bigger. And as one person above mentioned, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features. Everyone I know has either returned their droid and Pre products or sold it to someone else. They didn't all go to the iPhone, but they didn't like their experience with the other platforms that compete with the iPhone.
post #67 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than thata major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.

The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/te...pogue.html?hpw

Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #68 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

3rd party multitasking is a must and Apple should let it be up to the user to determine if we want the penality in battery life or not. The resolution, display size are a non-factor for me. I have no need for anything bigger. And as one person above mentioned, it's the actual use of the device that defines the experience, not the list of features. Everyone I know has either returned their droid and Pre products or sold it to someone else. They didn't all go to the iPhone, but they didn't like their experience with the other platforms that compete with the iPhone.

I understand that most people here know the problems associated with unlimited multitasking on these devices. Because of that, we would know what to expect when using it. The problem is that the large majority of the public does not know these problems exist, and will blame the phone, and Apple, for sluggish performance, lock-ups, and shortened battery life.

You are asking people to manage this stuff, when they can't manage a regular phone. If it doesn't work well without user interference, I doubt Apple will be ready to do it. I'm hoping the new phone will be capable of it.
post #69 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?

I was thinking it was mostly for the base OS install.
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post #70 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard.

I respectfully disagree with both of these assessments. I believe the best US network and the elimination of moving mechanical parts are features.

But really , if you think about it, all the US carriers suck to some extent. AT&T just sucks less than the others. It's hard to believe Verizon's copper would be faster than AT&T's fiber optic. And, it's easy to claim you have "The Network" if you never allow anybody to actually use it. Of course, in terms of wireless coverage, your mileage may vary depending on where you live.
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post #71 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

According to Pogue's article in the Times today, the Nexus has much less app memory than that—a major limitation for a new "superphone" (Google's word). 190 MB! That's very little by today's standards. Good thing there are so few useful apps in their store, mostly low end games.

The phone's got other problems as well, in addition to its advantages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/te...pogue.html?hpw

Pogue usually doesn't beat around the bush or beat a dead horse but he does go on a bit much about the evils of the US cell carriers in this editorial.

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post #72 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchfulOne View Post

I respectfully disagree with both of these assessments. I believe the best US network and the elimination of moving mechanical parts are features.

But really , if you think about it, all the US carriers suck to some extent. AT&T just sucks less than the others. It's hard to believe Verizon's copper would be faster than AT&T's fiber optic. And, it's easy to claim you have "The Network" if you never allow anybody to actually use it. Of course, in terms of wireless coverage, your mileage may vary depending on where you live.

Oh, I personally don't think those are bad things, as my AT&T coverage is fine in my area and I've gotten really good at using the soft keyboard.

But there are people who refuse to use a soft keyboard. Those people would never consider buying a device without a physical keyboard and thus would never buy an iPhone.

There are also people who refuse to use AT&T's service because they've been jilted in the past or for some other reason and until the iPhone is offered on their network of choice, they will never have an iPhone either.

I was just pointing out that these two issues would be a much bigger detractor, by far, for someone buying an iPhone than any of the other items listed in g3pro's post.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #73 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Yikes! That must be because of the applications that are pre-installed on the device, leaving only 190MB for 3rd party apps. I would think you'd be able to delete some of the pre-installed applications to make more room for applications you'd rather have on it?

I don't know.

We have to remember that the entire reason for Android is to bypass Apple's App store. I know this sounds odd, but it's true.

Think about Google's business model. They have no products to sell, whether financial, software, or hardware. The only way they make any real profit is by serving advertising to their users. Everything they've done with cloud apps, Android, Chrome, the browser and the OS, is to serve advertising to the public. Thats why all that is free. It serves up Ads where they make their money.

The problem for them with the App Store is that many of those apps get information for the user without ever having the user go through Google's search, where they serve their ads, and make their money. If that kept up, then they would soon see their business model go up in flames. That's one reason why the Nexus is $529 instead of possibly $699. They're willing to make less on it to get it to more people to whom they can serve Ads to.

So will they allow you to take certain programs off the device? Well, probably not in some cases, as they need them there for the Ads, to ensure that the Ads go through. A few people will get software that allows them to remove them, but like jailbreaking, it will be a minority.

And with both Apple and Google buying Ad placement companies, we can see that Ads will become even more pervasive on both platforms, and then on all the others as well.

The difference is that Google wants the Ads to make money for themselves, as that's the only real way they make money, and Apple wants the Ads so that the 125,000+ developers can use them to make money for themselves, thus ensuring that they will keep producing more apps, particularly free ones.

As long as the Ads remain discreet, I'm fine with it, after all without Ads the economy stops.
post #74 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Pogue usually doesn't beat around the bush or beat a dead horse but he does go on a bit much about the evils of the US cell carriers in this editorial.

I can understand that. We've been doing that here for years.
post #75 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.

I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.

That is a fair point. Ideally, the application would queue up enough data to not need to use the radio for several minutes, and the OS would allow for audio playback in the background. That is pretty easy to implement.

What is hard is to allow for IM applications which need nearly constant radio access. To make that work, the system would have to do some kind of optimized radio access across applications to get in a heartbeat to different sources in one "turning on" of the radio.

When impemented badly, it kills the battery life too much to be viable.
post #76 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

And UI advantage, and iTunes advantage, and the One-device-one-OS closed, controlled system advantage, etc.

Are you serious? I own an iPod touch and by watching the Nexus One videos I can say that there are a lot of advantages to the Android UI:
  • hardware Back button on the lower left is easier to hit with the thumb, does not take up screen real estate
  • you can jumb right to a specific home screen
  • folders on the home screen
  • widgets on the home screen
  • notifications on the top pane. Always visible but don't interrupt the user
  • a better font, readable but not as wide as the iPhone's default font so you can see more information
  • search suggestions are awesome! With real-time information about weather or locations around you while you are typing!
  • a zoom-out button for maps (!) So you can use it with only one hand
  • app icons with different shapes (!) The rounded square icons on the iPhone are a design nightmare

And to be honest I don't see why a closed system or iTunes is an advantage!? On a PC iTunes is the worst media app to date: slow, uninspired and bloated. Combining this with the free choice for future hardware, free navigation and the better hardware now (this will surely change with the new iPhone) the Android platform and the N1 are serious competitors for the iPhone.

And what if Google would stop to support Maps and Mail on the iPhone? They surely will at least update them slower than on their own platform.
post #77 of 138
post #78 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

And what if Google would stop to support Maps and Mail on the iPhone? They surely will at least update them slower than on their own platform.

Apple makes the mail app and they recently bought a company capable of creating a Google maps alternative for the iPhone...

Products always look good in controlled demonstrations, but don't always work as nicely in reality.
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post #79 of 138
That's the dumbest chart I've ever seen...

I'm not going to play down multi-tasking but, for just for the record:

- Programs will be at odds for memory and cause product instability
- Most app stores are small but as they grow more problems will occur between apps
- Users will spend time contacting vendors on issues or software developers to fix slowdowns
- Software developers will spend more time making apps "play nice" instead innovating

I'm sorry - turn my multitask smiley upside down...
post #80 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

And UI advantage, and iTunes advantage, and the One-device-one-OS closed, controlled system advantage, etc.

I don't think that iTunes is advantage for majority of Pc owners.

I don't know yet how Nexus sync with PC, but if it has simple active-sync-like tool that links it with Outlook, WMP, web browser (for downloads), I'd consider that big advantage over iTunes I am forced to use for my iPhone.
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