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As competition grows, Apple's iPhone still has App Store advantage - Page 3

post #81 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I don't know yet how Nexus sync with PC, but if it has simple active-sync-like tool that links it with Outlook, WMP, web browser (for downloads), I'd consider that big advantage over iTunes I am forced to use for my iPhone.

I also don't know if there is a specific sync software for Android but it seems that Google wants the user to sync their stuff via the Google account. But while you can use the Nexus One as a regular external drive it shouldn't be a problem to sync with WMP or even iTunes.
post #82 of 138
In iTunes store at the moment there is not one "fart" or Flashlight App in any of the three Top categories available, which you would know if you bothered to check.

You'll be pleased to know that the same fart and flashlight applications are also available in the Android market, including "Pull my Finger" the App that was originally rejected from the App store by Apple and later accepted after howls of protest over Apple's dictatorial approach.

No doubt you were relieved that phone owners rights to fart Apps won out in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Just because a lot of people download a fart app or a flashlight app does not make it a "must-have".

Even going so far as trying to ban fart Apps (see above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

At least you have the option and choice to do so on other phones. The iPhone is locked in.

Not sure about making an even more rigorous approval process, since the one already being used is severely mishandled and non-transparent.
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post #83 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

I don't think that iTunes is advantage for majority of Pc owners.

I don't know yet how Nexus sync with PC, but if it has simple active-sync-like tool that links it with Outlook, WMP, web browser (for downloads), I'd consider that big advantage over iTunes I am forced to use for my iPhone.

Android phones don't sync with computers. they are up in the clouds.
post #84 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

I also don't know if there is a specific sync software for Android but it seems that Google wants the user to sync their stuff via the Google account. But while you can use the Nexus One as a regular external drive it shouldn't be a problem to sync with WMP or even iTunes.

Can you show how they sync with computers? I don't know of any Android phone that can do that.
post #85 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

The lack of multitasking didn't annoy me much until I recently subscribed to Spotify. Now it's a MAJOR pain in the ass. There I am listening to music and to do anything requires the music to stop. Want to read an incoming text? The music stops. Want to check Google Maps? The music stops. Want to browse the web or play a game? The music stops. The music doesn't even resume once you've finished doing the task - you have to reopen the Spotify app.

I can live with a lot of the iPhone's fault. The positives far outweigh the negatives. However, I'm likely to buy a different brand of smartphone if it isn't fixed by the time I renew my contract in Q4 2010.

One way some of the "radio" web-streaming apps work around this is that they have the app call up the website in Safari and continue streaming from there when the app quits. Yes, you can't visit another webpage while this is happening but you can do the rest of the stuff that you mentioned. It's a partial solution.
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post #86 of 138
John Gruber said it best in regards to the number of apps.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...number-of-apps
Quote:
As I wrote in October, if the sheer number of apps available for a platform is inherently an advantage, wed all be using Windows. It is good for Apple and good for iPhone users that theres so much developer interest in the platform. But what matters most is quality. I think the iPhone wins there too, but theres no easy way to make that comparison numerically

.
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post #87 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

There is no multi-task on the iPhone.

AT&T's service is absolutely terrible. Just listen to the millions complaining about drop calls and atrocious 3g coverage.

and listen to millions ?? really now
lovely post
great lyrics for a song

the iphonians crashed the 3g network with incredible data useage
a
you may want to read the ....past.. 500 posts about this ..
we settled what you have stated here months ago
you have brought up out hat
the multi task would crash the phone . SJ wants a smooth UE,
and if you hate the iphone so much then go forth young man and get the PRE

any way you seem like a nice person so i will try to help you
to complain about ATT or VERIZON is like complaining about a stop sign or a side walk . ATT is only a gatekeeper you give them way too much credit /and or power to think that they understand anything or if they did could possibly fix it .
ATT and their ILK have scores of thousands of miles of fiber being lit and or being laid down. THE SW is a million yrs ahead of the cables in the ground . 30 to 40 bn dollars will be spent creating these systems .The greedy flucklers decided to duplicate 3 or 4 times over the same wires in the ground .Insuring for yrs to come poor service in big cities and no service in tiny towns . SOOOOO dude one day your smart phone will have true 4g/7g connection . 2014 maybe ..until then all service will be spotty and upsetting.

in 2016 you will have a video chat wristwatch phone that dick tracey would pine for .



or some pimple face kid will write code to bypass the whole gatekeeper system and free up the airwaves for free

OR apple will create the MVNO system reliving the carriers of there data shortages ]

they promised you something yrs away
they all lied to you and me
all of them including JOBS
get over it
buy a mbp and join me is soMe DOD4

FTW

peace
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post #88 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Does anyone know how changing screen sizes and resolutions will affect coding for applications?

Yep, it will make no difference at all. Why, you ask, because Mac OS X is resolution independent.

As for your other comments: do you have an iPhone?
Of course you don't, if you did, you would know the difference.

J.
post #89 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

The two biggest detractors would be AT&T only (in the US) and no hardware keyboard.

I disagree. Maybe AT&T's reputation could be a problem, but thats all.
The virtual keyboard is one of Apples biggest 'inventions', it is essential for the iPhone and as easy to use as a physical keyboard of the same size.

J.
post #90 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Yep, it will make no difference at all. Why, you ask, because Mac OS X is resolution independent.

As for your other comments: do you have an iPhone?
Of course you don't, if you did, you would know the difference.

J.

If I remember correctly, the introduction of Android's 2.0 video states that the SDK will automatically compensate for the change in screen resolution.

I've also seen another post here from an Android developer who stated that it's only a hour or two extra work compensating for the different hardware.
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post #91 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by icyfog View Post

John Gruber said it best in regards to the number of apps.
http://daringfireball.net/linked/201...number-of-apps
.

I don't agree with that. He misses some major points.

The most important of which is choice. What he's saying is as though it wouldn't matter if iTunes had only 4 million songs, or 2 million, or 500 thousand. After all, most aren't great, and we aren't interested in most of them anyway. Let's have just the top dozen love songs, after all how many does one need?

The point to more programs is that you have that great choice. Do we need more than one or two different programs in any category? Of course we do! We can use 6, or 10 or even 100. One person likes what another detests. and that's what makes the world go around.

How many categories should there be? An infinite number if possible!

The fact that most are free, and that the rest are so cheap, gives us the opportunity to try many different things before we settle on the ONE. Later, that might be a better ONE. Other platforms can't boast of that ability for their users.

Comparing this to Windows is an irrelevant amount of work. The two share nothing in common. Perhaps if most Windows programs were free or averaged $3 for the paid versions, it might matter. But they don't.

The mobile world is entirely different from the computer world. The devices serve different purposes, and that's what Microsoft doesn't understand, despite their great software catalog.

Apple does.
post #92 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

If I remember correctly, the introduction of Android's 2.0 video states that the SDK will automatically compensate for the change in screen resolution.

I've also seen another post here from an Android developer who stated that it's only a hour or two extra work compensating for the different hardware.

You can't do that automatically when the lowest resolution is too low to show all the needed information. Android developers are already concerned. It's not just the screen resolution either. It's the different form factors, different keyboards with different keys. The fact that hardware keyboards can't be changed for different languages, or have special characters available. Different hardware features on the same generation phones. This is a problem that Google has attempted to address in a letter to developers where they mention the five or so different versions of Android that are current, and the different interfaces that are already beginning to appear on different phones from different manufacturers, and even from the same manufacturer.

This will continue to get worse to the point in two years or so that there will not longer be "an" Android OS, but a half dozen, all non interchangeable, and not able to use the same software. This is what Unix became, is what Linux is, and what we say before the first IBM clones came out. It was a real mess, and with Android, unless Google takes the reigns tightly in their hands, will happen to Android.

I know Android fans don't like to read this, but it's happening already. Industry people are now saying this as well, so it's not just musings on my part, though I think I said it first, almost a year ago.
post #93 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You can't do that automatically when the lowest resolution is too low to show all the needed information. Android developers are already concerned. It's not just the screen resolution either. It's the different form factors, different keyboards with different keys. The fact that hardware keyboards can't be changed for different languages, or have special characters available. Different hardware features on the same generation phones. This is a problem that Google has attempted to address in a letter to developers where they mention the five or so different versions of Android that are current, and the different interfaces that are already beginning to appear on different phones from different manufacturers, and even from the same manufacturer.

This will continue to get worse to the point in two years or so that there will not longer be "an" Android OS, but a half dozen, all non interchangeable, and not able to use the same software. This is what Unix became, is what Linux is, and what we say before the first IBM clones came out. It was a real mess, and with Android, unless Google takes the reigns tightly in their hands, will happen to Android.

I know Android fans don't like to read this, but it's happening already. Industry people are now saying this as well, so it's not just musings on my part, though I think I said it first, almost a year ago.

According to this documentation, it actually can work. Ever since Android 1.6 (I correct myself), multiple screen size support for apps was included.

http://d.android.com/guide/practices...s_support.html

About a 1/4 of the way down, it tells the three ways that the OS will render the app correctly. If I read the article right, as long as you code the app to one of the three "ballpark" screen sizes, it should work just fine.
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post #94 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

According to this documentation, it actually can work. Ever since Android 1.6 (I correct myself), multiple screen size support for apps was included.

http://d.android.com/guide/practices...s_support.html

About a 1/4 of the way down, it tells the three ways that the OS will render the app correctly. If I read the article right, as long as you code the app to one of the three "ballpark" screen sizes, it should work just fine.

That is an attempt to resolve one major problem but its still not ideal and it still doesnt address the multiple other issues previously addressed. Android is not very old to have all this fragmentation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Android_devices Unless a vendor decides to pull in the UI and do a more structured evolutionary cycle its just going to be poor. Android is the Java of mobile OSes and its not pretty.
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post #95 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

According to this documentation, it actually can work. Ever since Android 1.6 (I correct myself), multiple screen size support for apps was included.

http://d.android.com/guide/practices...s_support.html

About a 1/4 of the way down, it tells the three ways that the OS will render the app correctly. If I read the article right, as long as you code the app to one of the three "ballpark" screen sizes, it should work just fine.

That's not the point. The point is that when an app is coded for a high amount of information density, it won't work properly on a much lower resolution screen. Not because it can't work, but because all that information can no longer be shown. Fine detailed text, for example, will be lost below the ability of the screen to resolve it. The program interface will have to be reworked for the different resolutions if they are too different. Apple will have a similar problem if they don't raise the rez on their iPhones and Touches in conjunction with a tablet release.

This means that the developer will need to have three different versions of the entire GUI for the program. Much more work, because the program was written and designed for that one resolution, and depending on the program, may not work well on a screen with a much lower resolution.

Google has no control over what these resolutions will be, or the cpu and gpu power behind them.

Apple has one standard for each entire generation of devices. So, at least, all currently selling devices will be coded for the same way. People owning older devices will understand that theirs will no longer be optimal. Apple will need to raise the rez, but likely only once, as there's no point going past a certain rez for such small screens.

It's why OS X's GUI couldn't work on a phone, and why, among other reasons, Win Mobile is so difficult to use.

But screen rez is only one among a list of differences between phones that Google will have no control over.

Palm is going to have a similar problem, but to a lessor extent. Already, the Pre and Pixi have different rez's. The Pixi can't display everything on the screen at once, or at a high enough rez. If they license the OS, as some have speculated they might, then they could be in the same boat Google is, unless they are stricter about how the hardware will be made.
post #96 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's not the point. The point is that when an app is coded for a high amount of information density, it won't work properly on a much lower resolution screen. Not because it can't work, but because all that information can no longer be shown. Fine detailed text, for example, will be lost below the ability of the screen to resolve it. The program interface will have to be reworked for the different resolutions if they are too different. Apple will have a similar problem if they don't raise the rez on their iPhones and Touches in conjunction with a tablet release.

This means that the developer will need to have three different versions of the entire GUI for the program. Much more work, because the program was written and designed for that one resolution, and depending on the program, may not work well on a screen with a much lower resolution.

Google has no control over what these resolutions will be, or the cpu and gpu power behind them.

Apple has one standard for each entire generation of devices. So, at least, all currently selling devices will be coded for the same way. People owning older devices will understand that theirs will no longer be optimal. Apple will need to raise the rez, but likely only once, as there's no point going past a certain rez for such small screens.

It's why OS X's GUI couldn't work on a phone, and why, among other reasons, Win Mobile is so difficult to use.

But screen rez is only one among a list of differences between phones that Google will have no control over.

Palm is going to have a similar problem, but to a lessor extent. Already, the Pre and Pixi have different rez's. The Pixi can't display everything on the screen at once, or at a high enough rez. If they license the OS, as some have speculated they might, then they could be in the same boat Google is, unless they are stricter about how the hardware will be made.

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post #97 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitWrangler View Post

I'm not convinced that the appstore advantage is quite as big of an advantage as first made out. As been mentioned previously, the number of usable apps is small. The upshot of this is that while it might take a long time for a competitor to reach the sheer numbers that the app store has, it won't take nearly as long to build a critical mass of useful applications.

Secondly, the low cost of the apps in the app store is actually going to be a disadvantage in this case. Many people wouldn't move over to the Mac not necessarily because of the volume of software they have on their pc's, but rather the financial investment in those apps. However, if you have 20 apps on your iphone of which you've spent $15 to acquire, you are far more likely to leave them behind for what you consider a better platform even if you were forced to spend another $15 to acquire those same apps.

Hopefully Apple is treading carefully here. The app store definitely gives them a leg up, but it's certainly not anything approaching an insurmountable lead.

I have to disagree on certain points. I do not believe that Apple's App store is only reason for being better than the competition (Android), but it is the overall user experience that makes it a runaway success. A post on http://accessoriesforiphone.com/blog...he-iphone.html makes the same points I make. Basically it says this:
iPhone is a success not because of App Store alone, but because each consumer is treated with ease of use for downloads of new apps, no confusion, unlike the hurdles Android phones are seeing now. E.g. Droid runs Android 2.01 (upgraded recently) Nexus One runs Android 2.1, HTC Eris runs Android 1.5! For all iPhone owners (unless jailbroken), we all run the same OS version. The engineers only have to adhere to one screen size, etc. The same is not true for Android, hence why they will not succeed in quality.
post #98 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke View Post

Multi-tasking might be Apple's Achilles heel once again as Android offers this. But I wonder what the real-world affect on battery charge would be? If not multi-tasking, I would really like to be able to pop back and fourth to the previous app once I close the current app. It'd be nice if that were configurable somehow.

Its interesting to see how many people think "multitasking=battery drain" just because Jobs said so, even if it is same category of half-lies as "phone needs 3rd party apps coming from us-controlled monopoly store, otherwise its insecure".

If you look at Android, there are many ways to multitask. For example you can listen on some system events. So if you have an app that needs to sync with the server, you listen to "data connection" event and do your update at that time - it means user just opened data connection (which is most expensive operation, battery wise), possibly by opening the Browser, so sending a few bytes over the network won't cost much. Also, if you need to track you location, you can listen to the "GPS" and "net cell" events. Your app is completely idle, consuming no power, but if the user fire up GPS or just move from one network cell to another, you run a small snippet of code to store location and current time with virtually no battery penalty. Even if you enable multitasking by Jail-breaking iPhone, without such system available to developers, it is a day and night in battery usage for the background apps. Android is really strong there and iPhone will play catchup game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke View Post

Also, the number of downloads also needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I have loads of apps on the Mac which haven't been on my iPhone for well over a year - and most of those were free apps I downloaded out of curiosity.

Agree. I wonder how many of those 3 bil. of downloads are free apps. Why Apple won't tell ?
post #99 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilgamesh View Post

...unlike the hurdles Android phones are seeing now. E.g. Droid runs Android 2.01 (upgraded recently) Nexus One runs Android 2.1, HTC Eris runs Android 1.5! For all iPhone owners (unless jailbroken), we all run the same OS version. The engineers only have to adhere to one screen size, etc. The same is not true for Android, hence why they will not succeed in quality.

End-users really pay no attention to what OS version they have. It is not that hard to write application that works well across different versions as the differences aren't that big.

Its not true that all of iPhone OS users have the latest version either. iPod Touch users are reported to stay to ancient versions as they have to pay for update. Plus the iPhone HW, despite being from one manufacturer, is quite different between models (GPS, Compass, Camera), where Android phones are not.
post #100 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

End-users really pay no attention to what OS version they have. It is not that hard to write application that works well across different versions as the differences aren't that big.

Its not true that all of iPhone OS users have the latest version either. iPod Touch users are reported to stay to ancient versions as they have to pay for update. Plus the iPhone HW, despite being from one manufacturer, is quite different between models (GPS, Compass, Camera), where Android phones are not.

Not to mention the coming release of the iTablet. The best assumption is that it will tie into the same App Store and the iPhone and iPod. But then that means Apple is walking further down the fragmentation road. Different screen size, different hardware, and maybe even a different OS for the iTablet. Obviously, developers will now need to develop two or more versions of their app if they want it to run on all products.

Or Apple will have their own separate App Store for the iTablet. But that would mean that that store will have to start from scratch. And that would disappoint many buyers expecting to have access to the same 100,000 apps.

As for the Android phones, the majority of them seem to be settling on the 800x480resolution screen, 3.7 inches, 3D chip, accelerometer, magnometer, relatively the same onboard storage, and running around the 1 Ghz area. And as many of the older phones are getting a 2.0+ update and many of the newer ones are releasing with 2.0.1, they're all within the same "generation" of OS. It seems to me that 2.0.1 to 2.1 is like going from Vista to Windows 7. An app written to run on 2.0.1 should run with no problems on 2.1.
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post #101 of 138
[QUOTE=Brainless;1545694]Its interesting to see how many people think "multitasking=battery drain" just because Jobs said so, even if it is same category of half-lies as "phone needs 3rd party apps coming from us-controlled monopoly store, otherwise its insecure".

If you look at Android, there are many ways to multitask. For example you can listen on some system events. So if you have an app that needs to sync with the server, you listen to "data connection" event and do your update at that time - it means user just opened data connection (which is most expensive operation, battery wise), possibly by opening the Browser, so sending a few bytes over the network won't cost much. Also, if you need to track you location, you can listen to the "GPS" and "net cell" events. Your app is completely idle, consuming no power, but if the user fire up GPS or just move from one network cell to another, you run a small snippet of code to store location and current time with virtually no battery penalty. Even if you enable multitasking by Jail-breaking iPhone, without such system available to developers, it is a day and night in battery usage for the background apps. Android is really strong there and iPhone will play catchup game.[quote]

Reviews of multitasking phones have mentioned battery drain and sluggishness. It varies from phone to phone, but it's there.


Quote:
Agree. I wonder how many of those 3 bil. of downloads are free apps. Why Apple won't tell ?

Most are, but a smaller percentage than downloads from the Android store.

I don't have the numbers right now, but paid apps are about a 50% higher level than that of Android as a percentage of all their downloads. There have been commentaries that Android has a problem with conversions to paying customers.
post #102 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainless View Post

End-users really pay no attention to what OS version they have. It is not that hard to write application that works well across different versions as the differences aren't that big.

Its not true that all of iPhone OS users have the latest version either. iPod Touch users are reported to stay to ancient versions as they have to pay for update. Plus the iPhone HW, despite being from one manufacturer, is quite different between models (GPS, Compass, Camera), where Android phones are not.

That's not actually true. The Android and Palm updates are more important in adding features than are the Apple updates. There are too many of these little updates floating around. The other problem is that not all Android phones can be updated past a certain point. In general, Android phones before 1.6 can't go to 2.0. It's even a question as to how many 2.01 Android phones will be able to go to 2.1 and beyond.

Also you're wrong about Android phones all having equivalent HW inside. They don't. They are much different. Not all have a compass, for example. Not all have accelerated graphics. Some have physical keyboards, but they are different. Some also have virtual keyboards, and some just have virtual keyboards.They have different CPU's as well, and vastly differing screen resolutions—and this is for phones coming out in the same year, even the same quarter. It's a mess.

Additionally, each manufacturer has begun customizing the GUI. HTC for example, only allows multitouch on some applications.

It's getting more confusing all the time.

With Apple, each generation phone has newer features, but all the phones of that generation have the same features. Much easier to account for, both for consumers, and developers. And that includes the numerous HW developers, a market which the other phones lack to any useful extent.
post #103 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


As for the Android phones, the majority of them seem to be settling on the 800x480resolution screen, 3.7 inches, 3D chip, accelerometer, magnometer, relatively the same onboard storage, and running around the 1 Ghz area. And as many of the older phones are getting a 2.0+ update and many of the newer ones are releasing with 2.0.1, they're all within the same "generation" of OS. It seems to me that 2.0.1 to 2.1 is like going from Vista to Windows 7. An app written to run on 2.0.1 should run with no problems on 2.1.

What you're saying is not true. A few phones have high rez screens, and not all are the same rez. Not all have the compass. Not all have HW graphic acceleration. Not all can accept the OS upgrades beyond a certain point. The GUI's are moving in different directions, etc.
post #104 of 138
An answer to the problems Android is beginning to have that's independent of my statements:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34646110...h_and_gadgets/

Note that most of the apps for the iPhone will run on all models. But check out the problems for the others, esp. Android, as thats what we're talking about here.

They talk about web apps as the solution. Yechh! That's what everyone has been complaining about.

And this aside about the Nexus One. I don't ever remember this happening with the iPhone;

http://www.pcworld.com/article/18639...omplaints.html

And this is something that some of us have been saying for some time about Googles very Microsoft like move:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01...tner_friendly/
post #105 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

What you're saying is not true. A few phones have high rez screens, and not all are the same rez. Not all have the compass. Not all have HW graphic acceleration. Not all can accept the OS upgrades beyond a certain point. The GUI's are moving in different directions, etc.

Not all, but a good deal of the flagship phone models are falling roughly into those specs I mentioned with a screen resolution of roughly 480x800. And the mid-range phones are falling into roughly the 320x480 resolution. Yes, I understand that it's a lot more varied than the iPhone, but at least there seems to be a trend slowly emerging, which should make things a little easier for developers. Whether they have a magnometer or not is no different than between the iPhone 3G and 3GS (I personally see it as a "nice to have" feature").

A lot of the Android phones that were released are getting a 2.x update. Some that just came out or about to come out with 1.6 are getting a 2.x update right after release or come with 2.x already. Some of the first generation Android phones can't be upgraded, but that's just the normal progression of things.

While the company does get to choose the GUI, I fail to see how that impacts how apps are run. If the base is still Android 2.x, then it'll run apps written for Android 2.x. Isn't it the same thing as me putting a theme over Windows 7? It looks different than vanilla Windows 7, but it's still Windows 7.
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post #106 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

There is no multi-task on the iPhone.

AT&T's service is absolutely terrible. Just listen to the millions complaining about drop calls and atrocious 3g coverage.

There's multi tasking on MY iPhone. Something must be wrong with yours. Same with 3G. I have full coverage, and routinely get 1 Mbps speed.

Something must be wrong with your iPhone.
post #107 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro View Post

Overheard at an Apple store in New York:

Customer: If I run out of battery and I am not near an outlet, how do I change the battery in the iPhone?

Apple Genius: You can't do that, but you don't need to. The iPhone has a very long battery life, so you won't need to change batteries.

Customer: That doesn't answer my question. {conversation continues}

That's not a conversation. That's someone who doesn't know what the hell their buying, but plans to use it in the middle of the desert for days on end.

That's literally about as competent as asking, "if I drop it in the ocean, what will happen," "It won't work," "That doesn't answer my question!"
post #108 of 138
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Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Not all, but a good deal of the flagship phone models are falling roughly into those specs I mentioned with a screen resolution of roughly 480x800. And the mid-range phones are falling into roughly the 320x480 resolution. Yes, I understand that it's a lot more varied than the iPhone, but at least there seems to be a trend slowly emerging, which should make things a little easier for developers. Whether they have a magnometer or not is no different than between the iPhone 3G and 3GS (I personally see it as a "nice to have" feature").

A lot of the Android phones that were released are getting a 2.x update. Some that just came out or about to come out with 1.6 are getting a 2.x update right after release or come with 2.x already. Some of the first generation Android phones can't be upgraded, but that's just the normal progression of things.

While the company does get to choose the GUI, I fail to see how that impacts how apps are run. If the base is still Android 2.x, then it'll run apps written for Android 2.x. Isn't it the same thing as me putting a theme over Windows 7? It looks different than vanilla Windows 7, but it's still Windows 7.

If you read my earlier link, you'll also see that many older phones can't be upgraded to 2.0. You'll also see that many programs that were written for 1.6 can't work on 1.5. Most 1.6 phones CAN'T be upgraded to 2.0 or higher, and as far as I know NO 1.5 phones can. If you can show differently, I'd be interested to see that.

In addition, it;s being written about broadly that the various manufacturers are differentiating their phones with increasingly differing implementations of Android, something I said would happen a year ago. Even within the same company, different phones are having slightly different GUI's and abilities, such as whether or not they can use multitouch, and on what programs.

Some don't allow it at all, some only for the GUI and their own built-in programs, some just for the GUI, and one, for most everything, just not in this country. And that's another thing. The same phone often has different features and abilities depending on where it's sold.

Another thing that's becoming confusing is the naming.

Apple very wisely doesn't allow differing names for their products in different parts of the world, except for translations if required. But look at the Droid line.

The Droid is not a Motorola name for the phone. It's a Verizon name. The HTC Eris is also a Droid. Two totally different phones! Meanwhile, both of those phones with somewhat different features will be selling in different countries with different names. They will have different names in various countries. No one will know what they are buying. Very confusing.

When software developers come out with programs they will have to state the version of the OS they will work with, as well as the names, per country, of the phones they will work with.

What a mess!

And this is just the beginning.
post #109 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post

That's not a conversation. That's someone who doesn't know what the hell their buying, but plans to use it in the middle of the desert for days on end.

That's literally about as competent as asking, "if I drop it in the ocean, what will happen," "It won't work," "That doesn't answer my question!"

It's also likely to have been a made up converation, not a real one.

I can make up plenty for phones that allow the change in the battery. But it's not required.

And, the Droid already has problems with the battery. The cover pops off for apparently no reason.

Verison's solution?

A thick piece of tape over the battery cover so that it doesn't come off.

Verizon is apparently so proud of the "solution" that they have their name and logo on the tape.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anticit...57623026970804

I wonder what happens when the battery needs changing? That tape looks like the stiff non-removable type. Do you need to get a package of the tape? How hard is it to get off?

Kind of makes the "removable battery" a bit of a joke.

I also can't even count the number of times I've seen people drop some portable device and seen the battery cover pop off and the battery(s) go skidding away. Maybe they should all come with tape.
post #110 of 138
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Originally Posted by bjojade View Post

Number of a available apps is meaningless. of the 100000 apps on the iPhone, only a handful are truly useful. Most are merely links to websites or fart apps.

And having TOO many to choose from makes it more difficult to weed out the crap. The quantity on the iPhone is starting to become a problem more than a benefit.

That being said, the iPhone is still the easiest to use, by far. The other phones do the same things, but nowhere near as gracefully.

I agree. Just look at how MS is criticised for having to support a myriad array of hardware, yet the same problem exists with Apple hosting thousands upon thousands of applications. Apple should just do what they do best, and lock down the App. Store so that only applications they think useful are offered, and cut out all the crap. A BSOD or lockup here and there is just as time consuming and wasteful as browsing through hundreds and thousands of pages of crap in the App. Store.
post #111 of 138
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Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I agree. Just look at how MS is criticised for having to support a myriad array of hardware, yet the same problem exists with Apple hosting thousands upon thousands of applications. Apple should just do what they do best, and lock down the App. Store so that only applications they think useful are offered, and cut out all the crap. A BSOD or lockup here and there is just as time consuming and wasteful as browsing through hundreds and thousands of pages of crap in the App. Store.

Of course, you have no idea about the ratio of good to bad apps. This seems to be a popular notion not supported by any evidence.
post #112 of 138
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Of course, you have no idea about the ratio of good to bad apps. This seems to be a popular notion not supported by any evidence.

I presume you think, and have evidence to support the claim that most apps are good quality then? The more applications there are, the more time you waste looking through them. Maybe Apple should take their app store policy of offering a huge selection and apply that to their hardware policy, where there is currently a very limited selection?
post #113 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I presume you think, and have evidence to support the claim that most apps are good quality then? The more applications there are, the more time you waste looking through them. Maybe Apple should take their app store policy of offering a huge selection and apply that to their hardware policy, where there is currently a very limited selection?

I don't make that specious claim as those who attempt to belittle the store do.

I do know that I see quite a lot of good reviews of apps coming from a wide variety of web sites, magazines, and newspapers. I also know that I have about 100 of them, both paid and free, and am happy with them. There are quite a few more I'd like to get, but one must draw the line somewhere.

I also read in a number of places about the poor quality of apps in the Android store, mostly being simple games, and poorly polished.

The kinds of programs I have for my iPhone are, in a number of instances not going to be replicated on other phones because of the small sales of those phones, or the lack of consistency. Others won't come out because of the lack of a sophisticated hardware interface such as Apple's 30 pin connector.

Even if it were true that only, say, 15% of the well over 100,000 apps available are really good, that's almost the size of the entire Android catalog.

Even if 20% of the Android's apps were really good, and that doesn't seem to be true, then that's a pitiful number.

As for Palm right now, forget it.
post #114 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't make that specious claim as those who attempt to belittle the store do.

I do know that I see quite a lot of good reviews of apps coming from a wide variety of web sites, magazines, and newspapers. I also know that I have about 100 of them, both paid and free, and am happy with them. There are quite a few more I'd like to get, but one must draw the line somewhere.

I also read in a number of places about the poor quality of apps in the Android store, mostly being simple games, and poorly polished.

The kinds of programs I have for my iPhone are, in a number of instances not going to be replicated on other phones because of the small sales of those phones, or the lack of consistency. Others won't come out because of the lack of a sophisticated hardware interface such as Apple's 30 pin connector.

Even if it were true that only, say, 15% of the well over 100,000 apps available are really good, that's almost the size of the entire Android catalog.

Even if 20% of the Android's apps were really good, and that doesn't seem to be true, then that's a pitiful number.

As for Palm right now, forget it.

And the average number of apps installed and kept on an iPhone is what? IIRC, it was something like 7 - that might be wrong, but it was certainly a surprisingly small number given the size of the market place. If the average number of apps installed is so small, it doesn't matter whether your application store has 100,000 programmes, or 1500 programmes, even the smaller number caters for what people need and use. Having all that extra just means more content to spend your time filtering through to find something genuinely useful, which seams counter-intuative to me.
post #115 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

And the average number of apps installed and kept on an iPhone is what? IIRC, it was something like 7 - that might be wrong, but it was certainly a surprisingly small number given the size of the market place. If the average number of apps installed is so small, it doesn't matter whether your application store has 100,000 programmes, or 1500 programmes, even the smaller number caters for what people need and use. Having all that extra just means more content to spend your time filtering through to find something genuinely useful, which seams counter-intuative to me.

Try applying that bit of logic to the number of different items your mother buys from the supermarket... compared to the number the supermarket actually sells.

Stupid!
post #116 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Try applying that bit of logic to the number of different items your mother buys from the supermarket... compared to the number the supermarket actually sells.

Stupid!

Yep, and that smaller supermarket, with a smaller range of items, but with less of the own brand value rubbish! This is completely pointless as we could just end up going round in circles here.
post #117 of 138
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Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

Not to mention the coming release of the iTablet. The best assumption is that it will tie into the same App Store and the iPhone and iPod. But then that means Apple is walking further down the fragmentation road. Different screen size, different hardware, and maybe even a different OS for the iTablet. Obviously, developers will now need to develop two or more versions of their app if they want it to run on all products.

Or Apple will have their own separate App Store for the iTablet. But that would mean that that store will have to start from scratch. And that would disappoint many buyers expecting to have access to the same 100,000 apps.

That's a lot of assumptions designed to make a case for "fragmentation" akin to Android, but it really doesn't make any sense. If Apple releases an entirely new device, that shares some characteristics of the iPhone OS and uses the same distribution channel for apps, that really has no bearing on what's going on in the iPhone space-- any more than Android tablets need to be regarded as a problem for Android phones or developers. Each will stand or fall on their own merits.

Quote:
As for the Android phones, the majority of them seem to be settling on the 800x480resolution screen, 3.7 inches, 3D chip, accelerometer, magnometer, relatively the same onboard storage, and running around the 1 Ghz area. And as many of the older phones are getting a 2.0+ update and many of the newer ones are releasing with 2.0.1, they're all within the same "generation" of OS. It seems to me that 2.0.1 to 2.1 is like going from Vista to Windows 7. An app written to run on 2.0.1 should run with no problems on 2.1.

Except they won't "settle" on this at all. The problem with the hardware partner model is that those hardware partners are constantly, almost mindlessly trying to carve out a little mind share by changing their spec bullet point list. If 800x480 becomes the norm, than rest assure some enterprising handset manufacturer will go that one better, or add another layer of UI abstraction, or more buttons, or something. The whole nature of the consumer electronics industry is to out spec the other guy, even when it doesn't make any sense from a user perspective. Android OS point releases will be forever chasing the ADD permutations of a market that competes on numbers, and it will be cheered on by fan boys who think numbers are magic. They'll compare numbers to the iPhone and decide that they're "winning", even as their platform becomes more and more a collection of disparate versions tailored to particular handsets.

That's not entirely disastrous, IMO, but it's not really a competitive advantage, either.
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post #118 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Yep, and that smaller supermarket, with a smaller range of items, but with less of the own brand value rubbish! This is completely pointless as we could just end up going round in circles here.

What? I think what you've said here is pointless, because it doesn't appear to make any sense, but the larger point-- that while for any given market place any given consumer might use a small fraction of the wares on hand, they're likely to be using a slightly different small fraction-- seems incontestable, and leads inevitably to the conclusion that the larger the inventory, the more likely any given consumer is going find just the right mix of products,
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #119 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

And the average number of apps installed and kept on an iPhone is what? IIRC, it was something like 7 - that might be wrong, but it was certainly a surprisingly small number given the size of the market place. If the average number of apps installed is so small, it doesn't matter whether your application store has 100,000 programmes, or 1500 programmes, even the smaller number caters for what people need and use. Having all that extra just means more content to spend your time filtering through to find something genuinely useful, which seams counter-intuative to me.

No, not true at all. Actually, it's something like over 40% of users have over 50 apps. There was a chart published a few days ago that had that, and I'm trying to remember where I saw it. It might have been in the NY Times, but I'm not sure.
post #120 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Yep, and that smaller supermarket, with a smaller range of items, but with less of the own brand value rubbish! This is completely pointless as we could just end up going round in circles here.

That's no more correct than are the other arguments. Big stores also have "house brands" that are often the same thing, but are cheaper. Small stores have mostly brand name items. Even if they don't, what makes you think that unknown brand names are better, rather than worse?
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