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AT&T to release Android, WebOS devices & new app platform - Page 3

post #81 of 96
Mel is right they are two different situations. Its a relatively small number of people who could not activate their phones on the first day of iPhone sales, that problem did not even effect everyone who activated phones that day. With RIMM their entire user base is effected when their service goes down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Well both would cause a user satisfaction problem.
post #82 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Mel is right they are two different situations. Its a relatively small number of people who could not activate their phones on the first day of iPhone sales, that problem did not even effect everyone who activated phones that day. With RIMM their entire user base is effected when their service goes down.

Which it seems to do a few times a year. RiMs solution was still great 5 years ago but times have changed and their model has not. There is little reason to continue using their expensive BES with a single point of failure.
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post #83 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You can hmmm all you like, it is still the truth

I thought you would have interpreted my hmm correctly. It was in response to your saying that you weren't the first to bring up RIM. I was pondering that. You're too touchy.
post #84 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I would argue that this depends on sales. You only have the opportunity to introduce new features once. If sales remain strong without significant software upgrades, then its better to hold major upgrades for later when they can be used to push the new OS.

It can also be argued that the third party apps themselves constantly introduce new functionality for the iPhone. Apple doesn't have to do that in the way that other platforms have to.

I understand that. My only thought with that was too prevent people from thinking that other companies were getting ahead of them during the year, which, in some areas is true.

If Apple is adding features that will work on current phones, and it doesn't require some specific change in the OS otherwise, I see no reason why some of them can't come in in a mid year update. This is not unheard of in software.

So if Apple is coming out with a multitasking upgrade that will also work with the 3GS, they should have it out now.

After all, that would stop the whining about that from people who complain about how important it is to them, and they will have it anyway on the older phones later, so it won't cut into sales of the new model. And additionally, since the OS upgrade is free, it's not costing them sales there either, while giving third party developers something newer to hook into. It will help prevent some people from jumping from the platform over the next 6 months with all the new phones coming out that have it.

I can't see a single negative in this.
post #85 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Which it seems to do a few times a year. RiMs solution was still great 5 years ago but times have changed and their model has not. There is little reason to continue using their expensive BES with a single point of failure.

It went out twice in one week, and I think it was three times in about a month or two.
post #86 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I thought you would have interpreted my hmm correctly. It was in response to your saying that you weren't the first to bring up RIM. I was pondering that. You're too touchy.

Not touchy, cultural differences, that's all.
post #87 of 96
Apple has had two fairly significant OS updates where they added a long list of new features between major OS upgrades. One in September 2007 and another in January 2008.

As we all know Apple isn't susceptible to releasing anything simply because people whined for it. They don't release it until they feel its ready.

As far as multi-tasking, we know its advantages, in some cases its even necessary for some apps. But I don't think Apple feels any pressure to release it until they feel its ready. Multi-tasking isn't really doing much to sell Android and isn't helping Palm at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I understand that. My only thought with that was too prevent people from thinking that other companies were getting ahead of them during the year, which, in some areas is true.

After all, that would stop the whining about that from people who complain about how important it is to them,

I can't see a single negative in this.
post #88 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple has had two fairly significant OS updates where they added a long list of new features between major OS upgrades. One in September 2007 and another in January 2008.

As we all know Apple isn't susceptible to releasing anything simply because people whined for it. They don't release it until they feel its ready.

As far as multi-tasking, we know its advantages, in some cases its even necessary for some apps. But I don't think Apple feels any pressure to release it until they feel its ready. Multi-tasking isn't really doing much to sell Android and isn't helping Palm at all.

I know they've done it in the past, though with more modest feature upgrades.

I was using multitasking as an example, as it's something that people are constantly talking about, but it could be anything.
post #89 of 96
I think the people complaining about multi-tasking are largely people who will complain about the iPhone no matter what. As the iPhone feature list grows what they are able to complain about shrinks, multi-tasking is about the only thing they have at the moment. After Apple implements that they will move on to something else to complain about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I know they've done it in the past, though with more modest feature upgrades.

I was using multitasking as an example, as it's something that people are constantly talking about, but it could be anything.
post #90 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I think the people complaining about multi-tasking are largely people who will complain about the iPhone no matter what. As the iPhone feature list grows what they are able to complain about shrinks, multi-tasking is about the only thing they have at the moment. After Apple implements that they will move on to something else to complain about.

I agree. I've been saying that Apple will eliminate these holes over time as they come up with better ways of doing them. It's the bad publicity that concerns me.

While Android doesn't seem to really be that good of an OS from what I've been reading, it's getting a lot of press.

Perception is the truth, as we say in advertising.

Apple is usually good at managing this, but they are losing the publicity war right now. Waiting until late June is not really an option in my mind. A major update would help.

They also have to do something with the store. It's a mess. Whose idea was it to move the index from the empty left hand side to the very bottom of the long page? It took a couple of minutes to find the small app store listing after they did that. It seems as though they are moving backwards on that. It's become increasing difficult to find things by browsing, which is what an online store is all about. The bookstore, for example is a real mess. I often go into B&N looking for some particular books, as I did the other day, only to buy books I didn't know about before. It's almost impossible to do that here.

Somehow, it's thought that a search box fixes all evils. It doesn't.
post #91 of 96
We'll have to see how it goes. The hype that Android is getting this year is the exact same hype that Palm was getting at this point last year, we see how that turned out.

I think Android will eat more into Windows Mobile and Nokia than it will eat in iPhone sales. Anecdotally the couple of people I know with Android phones never owned a smartphone and are on Verizon. I don't know of anyone who who currently owns an iPhone has any intention of switching from the iPhone to Android or Palm.

As far as the store there are two ways to look at it. If one expects the store to be a place where people should be able to easily find apps that have no word of mouth and no press, then yes the app store is not good at all at accomplishing that goal.

But then that's no different than if you made an app for the Mac or Windows. An app with no word of mouth and no marketing would have a difficult time finding many users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Apple is usually good at managing this, but they are losing the publicity war right now. Waiting until late June is not really an option in my mind. A major update would help.

They also have to do something with the store. It's a mess. Whose idea was it to move the index from the empty left hand side to the very bottom of the long page? It took a couple of minutes to find the small app store listing after they did that. It seems as though they are moving backwards on that. It's become increasing difficult to find things by browsing, which is what an online store is all about. The bookstore, for example is a real mess. I often go into B&N looking for some particular books, as I did the other day, only to buy books I didn't know about before. It's almost impossible to do that here.

Somehow, it's thought that a search box fixes all evils. It doesn't.
post #92 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

We'll have to see how it goes. The hype that Android is getting this year is the exact same hype that Palm was getting at this point last year, we see how that turned out.

I think Android will eat more into Windows Mobile and Nokia than it will eat in iPhone sales. Anecdotally the couple of people I know with Android phones never owned a smartphone and are on Verizon. I don't know of anyone who who currently owns an iPhone has any intention of switching from the iPhone to Android or Palm.

As far as the store there are two ways to look at it. If one expects the store to be a place where people should be able to easily find apps that have no word of mouth and no press, then yes the app store is not good at all at accomplishing that goal.

But then that's no different than if you made an app for the Mac or Windows. An app with no word of mouth and no marketing would have a difficult time finding many users.

But it's ease that Apple is touting with the app store. That's why everything is in one place. I don't find that ease of use. Often, when I type a category into the search box, it doesn't know what I mean, and I spend several minutes varying it until it does find something correct. But then when you go look at one of the selections it comes up with, it loses the rest of them, and you have to type it again. Poor thought there.

Why can't the book store be arranged the way a real book store is, or a library? We have well known cataloging systems for this. Apple certainly can afford to hire one or two people to categorize all the new books that come in. I've bought a number of books there in the past, but it's too hard to look through it now. Books are the fastest growing area in the App Store, something serious must be done.

Back to Android. I posted this in another thread, but you might find it interesting. I agree, and it's exactly what I've been saying for some time::

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...onal-thoughts/
post #93 of 96
Are you talking about search for one particular app or searching for random apps? I can agree that the chance of finding a random app that performs a certain task is not easy. But if you are looking for a specific app I haven't found that to be a problem.

Yes I saw that boy genius story, I've posted it myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But it's ease that Apple is touting with the app store. That's why everything is in one place. I don't find that ease of use. Often, when I type a category into the search box, it doesn't know what I mean, and I spend several minutes varying it until it does find something correct. But then when you go look at one of the selections it comes up with, it loses the rest of them, and you have to type it again. Poor thought there.


http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...onal-thoughts/
post #94 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Are you talking about search for one particular app or searching for random apps? I can agree that the chance of finding a random app that performs a certain task is not easy. But if you are looking for a specific app I haven't found that to be a problem.

Yes I saw that boy genius story, I've posted it myself.

I'm talking about browsing the store. That's one area in which brick and mortar stores have an advantage. It should be Apple that turns that on its head.

Yes, if you're looking for a specific app, usually no problem. But if you're looking for one developer, or author, sometimes the search misses things, and comes up with a mess of stuff that has nothing to do with it. The AI behind this is poor.

As I say, with books it's worse.

What's wrong with breaking things down into more categories? It was better before with the index on the side. Now that's gone.
post #95 of 96
Ah I see. I'm sure they are cognizant of the App Stores difficulties. You know Apple, its likely one day the will suddenly introduce a completely redesigned App Store. I would image they have 10 different versions of the App Store UI in their lab and trying to figure out the most useful version.


Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Yes, if you're looking for a specific app, usually no problem. But if you're looking for one developer, or author, sometimes the search misses things, and comes up with a mess of stuff that has nothing to do with it. The AI behind this is poor.
post #96 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Ah I see. I'm sure they are cognizant of the App Stores difficulties. You know Apple, its likely one day the will suddenly introduce a completely redesigned App Store. I would image they have 10 different versions of the App Store UI in their lab and trying to figure out the most useful version.

I hope so, long gone are the days when I could look through the entire listing in a category.
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